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Vincent M Ferrari
02-16-2003, 06:53 PM
Palm v. Pocket PC according to Palm

Palm has been pretending to not be afraid of the Pocket PC for a long time. Of course, the restructuring of their Tungsten T's price is proof positive that low-priced handhelds running the PPC OS (like Dell's Axim and HP's 1910) are finally viewed as a threat to Palm's stranglehold on the PDA market.

I decided to poke around Palm's website and see what they felt about the Pocket PC. As it turns out, they compare the two OS' feature for feature, and yet make some glaringly misstated comments that haven't been true for ages. It's wrong, and frankly lying to your customers is not the way to keep them coming back.

Category 1: Number of Software Programs
This is the favorite Red Herring of Palm, and one that is very easily dismissed. While there are 13,000 available titles, how many people install them all? I would hazard a guess that the average Palm user doesn't ever install any applications on their handheld, and instead use just what's built in. When you look at what's available on both, the Palm and the Pocket PC may have an inequal amount of software available, but the truth of the matter is, without faily, you can find comparable applications. Whereas there may only be 1,600 titles on the Pocket PC, all that means is the Palm has more, not better, applications. Most of what I tried in my years as a Palm user was trash. Honestly, how many ebook readers can you use at one time?

Category 2: Software Compatibility
Palm claims complete compatibility with the current line, and the new OS 5 line. From experience I can tell you that is not only untrue, but a blatant lie. They then proceed to examine the Pocket PC situation as it was a year ago, citing the PPC's transition to ARM based processors. That's all well and good, but that was also a year ago. The ARM processors were not rendered useless and incompatible by the newer X-Scale processors. If you had an older PPC device, you were left in the dark, however when I bought my Tungsten T, I wasn't exactly well-supported either. Most of my applications didn't work, and I either had to buy new versions or replace them with similar apps. While the Pocket PC changed architectures for PPC 2002, the ARM processors standardized the line, and the X-Scale upgraded that line. Palm may have hardware compatibility with processors, but varying screens, resolutions, display drivers, grafiti implementation, and slot drivers make them every bit as finicky as they claim the PPC to be. A hi-res program for the Tungsten will not work on the Sony Clie, for example. No standards for displays means a specially coded version of hi-res software for your handheld must be written in order to take advantage. That's not my idea of compatibility.

Category 3: Hardware Freedom of Choice
Palm claims a choice of a wide variety of hardware. This is really a moot point, considering PPC users can choose from handhelds by Dell, HP/Compaq, Viewsonic, Fujitsu/Siemens, T-Mobile/o2, Toshiba, Audiovox, and Zayo. How many more choices do you need? They also take shots at Win CE 3.0, and the Smart Phone edition, but truthfully, it's somewhat silly. Palm handhelds on the market right now are running no less than 8 operating systems: Palm OS 3.0, 3.01, 3.5, 3.51, 4.0, 4.1, 4.5, and 5.0, with Palm OS 5 being only partially compatible with the previous iterations.

Category 4: Software Developers
Palm claims 200,000 developers. I'd like to point out that I'm listed as a developer, which I did to download debug versions of the ROMs for their Palm OS Emulator. 200,000 developers churning out the newest version 4.0.1.2.2.2.1.2.3b of Ebook Reader LX. No thanks. That does not impress me. Palm claims that development is squashed by MS bundling its own applications. Truth is, you can download all the development tools for the PPC for free from Microsoft's website. Palm uses pricey software like Codewarrior ($300 for the Personal version), and Appforge ($600+, and 1.2+ megs of libraries for the handheld which usually has 8-16 megabytes of RAM).

Category 5: Enterprise Standards, and Category 6: Enterprise Solutions
In 1 1/2 years, there shouldn't be an even number of companies supporting both, or something is wrong, especially when Palm had a 5 year+ advantage on establishing itself. As for standards, Terminal Services is not available on the Palm in any fashion. 90% of companies wanting to support Palm simply means that people are using the handhelds they use now. I don't see this as a significant measure of PPC's usefulness in the corporate environment.

Category 7: Market Share
I don't see how this establishes any usefulness or lack thereof for either OS, especially when the PPC has gained marketshare each of the last two years.

Category 8: Expansion
Again, a Red Herring. Palms have Universal Connectors (if they're made by Palm), but handhelds from Sony and Handspring have different connectors for every line. All pocket PC's have at least an SD card slot, some with SDIO (SD Input/Output), some also have Compact Flash. The purchase of expansion sleeves is rarely required, contrary to Palm's assertion, because most peripherals run in the CF slot. Also, the two slot form factor means you can add additional memory, and a standard peripheral. To do this with Palm, you have to buy a Universal connector accessory and an SD memory card. Unfortunately, most Universal Connector accessories come directly from Palm making them more expensive. As for limited expansion options on the PPC, have you ever looked at the Mobile Planet catalog? Page after page after page of PPC peripherals from many different manufacturers. Nothing comparable to that exists for Palm OS.

Category 9: Connectivity
Palm has the i705, which is highlighted in the comparison. That's fine, but the i705 has a low-res black and white screen, you have to buy a separate data plan from Palm only. Not exactly open standards. The wireless lan module for the Palm doubles its size and costs over $200. Palm claims no integrated Palm solutions are available. I have a Pocket PC phone in my desk at work for testing, and frankly, I would consider it elegantly integrated. They also claim the connectivity price for a Pocket PC is $1000 citing prices that are way out of line and misleading. A Dell Axim ($249) + a Socket Bluetooth CF Card ($100) plus an Ericsson T-68 phone from T-Mobile ($150 with contract) give you more flexibility for $449 than an i705 and compete favorably for web-browsing purposes with the new Palm Tungsten T.

Category 10: Support for Web Browsing, Web Clipping, and WAP
Palm dropped all support for Web Clipping in OS 5. Web browsing on even the new Tungsten is miserable and mal-formatted (better on PPC, but still not something you would want to do for any extended length of time), and WAP is supported natively by Pocket Internet Explorer. Pocket IE also translates your desktop favorites so you can take your bookmarks on the road.

Category 11: Macintosh Support
Palm has native Macintosh support. Pocket PC's require the purchase of additional software. Advantage, Palm.

Category 12: Automatic Data Backup
Again, advantage Palm. Activesync needs work. However, Activesync's autosyncing is the greatest thing in the world. No intervention necessary to ensure synchronization, just place the handheld on the cradle.

Category 13: Size and Weight
Another Red Herring: the HP 1910 is extremely small and light, and my Toshiba E330 is also very light. In fact it's thinner, and lighter than the new flagship handheld of Palm, the Tungsten T. It is larger, but the screen is much larger as well. In fact, the Ipaq 3900 series, the Viewsonic V35, and the Zio A600 all weigh less, with most of the "heavier" handhelds only one ounce or so heavier than the Tungsten. I don't mind that Pocket PC's are generally larger, as this gives more room for bigger screens. Add to that the fact that Pocket PC's don't have a silk-screen area for entering text, and your screen is a much better-utilized area.

Category 14: Estimated Street Price
The final Red Herring: The HP 1910 is $299. The Dell Axim is $249. Toshiba will be introducing a handheld next month at $199. Palm may have the low-end price advantage, but at the midrange, where I imagine most consumers are, price is not the issue Palm makes it.

It was interesting reading this comparison. Palm uses old information, not updated in what looks like ages, to make a weak case against the Pocket PC. If you ever talk to a Palm devotee about what makes the Palm a better choice, they rattle off most of these same easily countered arguments. At least now we know where they get them from!

[Sorry to post this here, but I couldn't post it in the "Competition" topic, and I wanted to share]

TawnerX
02-17-2003, 02:19 AM
Most of the eBook in Palmgear.com, if the 13K number is palmgear's, are readable in PPC (iSilo, txt doc, etc). I think raw number is pretty useless since PPC will win hands down counting all the themes, ebook, and emulator that runs on PPC, just like the 13K number counts ebook, hacks and various language variants. What PPC still behind in softwares quantity is in educational and personal care/hobby area. There are simply a lot more of these specialty softwares in PalmOS. PPC strength are in geeks toy, networking, computational, enterprise, and games.

For size, weight, expandibility and price I think is not an issue for PPC anymore, at least for non black and white models.

I think the ultmate argument will be the day when nobody argues about these items and shurg off above argument as insignificant. (eg. nobody really take down the number of how many window apps are there when they decide to buy Apple or PC machine)

ppcsurfr
02-17-2003, 04:03 PM
Wow, vincenzosi, ou did what I've been planning to do for a long time.

You went through it thoroughly...

Well, it is indeed full of lies... if you don;t want to call them lies... then let's just say statements from an ignorant marketing exec.

ppcsurfr

ombu
02-18-2003, 03:24 PM
Wow, vincenzosi, ou did what I've been planning to do for a long time.

You went through it thoroughly...

Well, it is indeed full of lies... if you don;t want to call them lies... then let's just say statements from an ignorant marketing exec.

ppcsurfr

What about a new user? Are those statements helping him/her to decide? There is more than false info, there's a lack of info too, on purpose of course, so I call them LIES!!! :evil:

Regards.

TawnerX
02-19-2003, 04:43 AM
Here is an amusingly useless thread.
It turns out PPC really do can squeeze more fonts than the biggest of Palmmachine when push come to shove. Of course it's pushing the lmit of readability.

PPC wins the yadas contest.
http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=465500#post465500

spursdude
02-19-2003, 06:42 AM
Here is an amusingly useless thread.
It turns out PPC really do can squeeze more fonts than the biggest of Palmmachine when push come to shove. Of course it's pushing the lmit of readability.

PPC wins the yadas contest.
http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=465500#post465500

Wow, I think I'm glad that Steven has started locking the typical "Palm vs. Pocket PC" threads... there's a reason I don't go on Brighthand. Anyways, that Yada thing is pretty funny...although you can in fact take screenshots that will come out 320x240.

PPCdev
02-19-2003, 08:16 AM
Hey! I loved my Palm when I first got it! Palm M130, color too! Man, what a gem! This thing was so great! Well, being the typical un-average owner, power user, developer, I just *knew* I wanted to take it to the max!

Well, I, err... found out, the max, was a little closer to stock than I first thought! :-)

Palm OS, VFS: If you owned a Palm, you *know* what VFS is, and what a jumbled mess of a crap system it is! Point blank, VFS doesnt work well, at all!

Next, expansion! I plugged in my 64meg SD card, started to load that baby up! Then, when I want to browse the card for e-books or whatever, I had the joy of waiting a painful 20 seconds plus for the card to initilize, dir load or what the hell ever was going on.

Software! I love pictures... I install Fireviewer, and man, Im excited! I can now show the pictures of my puppy, my daughter and other goodies to everyone I meet! Hey, you know... 160X160 resolution *SUCKS*!

Development! Im all excited now, lets write a program for the Palm! First hit, NSBasic... Kewl! Wait, this aint like Visual Basic... Wheres all the other stuff you can do? What? It *requires* a run time modual for my NSBasic programs to run?!?! What else? Program cost over $100?!?! Nevermind, I wont program then...


Sold the Palm on e-bay for $160
Bought the Audiovox Maestro on e-bay for $170

1) File system works like a super champ
2) Memory cards initilize quickly (1 second or less)
3) Images are sharp and clear, and are in native .JPG format too!
4) Sounds, MP3, etc.. Not beeps or boops
5) Video! Heres my kids playing outside, wanna see the MPG or the WMV version? :-)
6) Much better text entry options, much better!
8) EXPANDABLE! (Dont need to expand on that, er.. 'cuse the pun)
9) DEVELOPMENT! eVC++ 3.0 and 4.0 are *FREE* downloads

Life? Life is good now!

Con: Only 1, sucks juice like a vampire. :-(

I wish I had done more research before I bought the first time. When I sold my Palm I could only think.. "Someone just paid $160 for a crappy screen, slow damn 8Meg PDA?!?! Damn!" HAHA Hey, wait... Thats what I did too! Uh Oh..

Anyway, Im on the side of the force, the light side, and Im glad to be here!

Andrew

JA
02-19-2003, 04:34 PM
Here is an amusingly useless thread.
It turns out PPC really do can squeeze more fonts than the biggest of Palmmachine when push come to shove. Of course it's pushing the lmit of readability.

PPC wins the yadas contest.
http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=465500#post465500

That guy abosco, it's the same troll we have here: bosco! Geesh, why doesn't he just go away...

JA

PPCdev
02-19-2003, 06:44 PM
I owned a "high dollar" Palm, the M130.. I know the score, Palm sux. :oops:

The Tungsten? Its a $500 version of my $170 Maestro... With an inferior OS. :roll:

Ill say no more, this Palm/PPC argument stuff has got me bummed out, cant beleive theres that many knuckle heads in the world... :P

Andrew

TawnerX
02-19-2003, 07:10 PM
To extend the battery life of genio550, usually people use AA battery extender, either home made or purchsed for under $20 or so.

It's not the most elegant solution, but having one or tow of these plus rechargable AA battery in a backpack sure can extend the usefullness of Genio a great deal for an extra small item to carry.

-----
PS. what screenshot ut's can take as is, instead of screen bits? I was wondering about that. I use those freebie pocketscreenshoot, since I don't use screenshot for anything important.

PPCdev
02-19-2003, 07:17 PM
My web site is under serious development, IE: theres nothing there. :-)

However, I have info and details on a battery extender. It ran my Maestro for 6.5 hours continous with back light on Super High, playing an MP3 on loop and displaying several JPEGs in a slideshow. All of these things put quite a load on the battery.

Greatly extended run time can be acheived by placing the light on Med Bright and use it as "normal". I dont have hard numbers for this yet, but I anticipate 10+ hours of *continous* use, that is light is on 100% of the time, applications running, never going to stand by.

Ill post something when I have more details on run times, but the battery pack is built and being used frequently. Im working on software that will track the run time and battery level in great detail and generate logs for me.

As it is, Ive used the battery pack for over a dozen charges of my Maestro and hardly put a drain on the pack, took the Maestro from 40% to 100% every time.

HTH,
Andrew

TawnerX
02-19-2003, 08:05 PM
aha, you have a 'FrankenTosh' :D

JackTheTripper
02-20-2003, 12:04 AM
Palm v. Pocket PC according to Palm

Category 11: Macintosh Support
Palm has native Macintosh support. Pocket PC's require the purchase of additional software. Advantage, Palm.

Don't know if things have changed but when My wife and I bought our Palms a while back we needed to purchase a "Mac Kit" which contained mac software and a USB connector in order to use them. these were Palm III's so maybe it's changed. :silly: