infoSync Reviews the Sony Ericsson P800

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/3067.html' target='_blank'>http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/3067.html</a><br /><br /></div>"Originally slated for a launch in the fall of 2002, Sony Ericsson's P800 has been of the most anticipated connected handhelds for a long, long time. Not only is the P800 the first palm-sized Symbian OS device, it's also the first to sport a touch-screen, tri-band GSM, use the UIQ platform, and simply come from a company which isn't Nokia. Sure, its introduction has been delayed a couple of times - but as you're about to find out, good things come to those who wait."<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/p800_01.jpg" /><br /><br />To me, this device is the biggest competition to Pocket PC Phone Edition devices, as opposed to Palm-based smartphones. infoSync gives it a fairly thorough review, and while I can easily say that I'd rather take the Pocket PC OS any day, there are certain aspects to this Symbian-based device I'd love to see elsewhere, including the option of a physical keypad and integrated Bluetooth.<br /><br /><b>However</b>, there's one easy reason why I'd probably never end up getting this device: Memory Stick Duo. :evil: Not even a "classic" Memory Stick slot. I think the largest Duo sticks available on the market are 64MB, and they're not easy to get - or cheap. One major flaw in what looks to be an otherwise decent device.

[ThomasC22]

Little lesson I learned from my Kyocera 6035 about "flip down" number pads. DON'T USE THEM!

Be it the joint getting old, or dust getting in between there, or even change slipping between the pad it just doesn't work.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Little lesson I learned from my Kyocera 6035 about "flip down" number pads. DON'T USE THEM!

Be it the joint getting old, or dust getting in between there, or even change slipping between the pad it just doesn't work.
I try to get devices myself that have minimal moving parts b/c of the tendencies you describe...

[Sheynk]

Little lesson I learned from my Kyocera 6035 about "flip down" number pads. DON'T USE THEM!

Be it the joint getting old, or dust getting in between there, or even change slipping between the pad it just doesn't work.

It says that you can remove the flip and use the touch screen





anyway....just a bit more memory......oh well........and what idiot decided to make this a "duo" device....ughhhhhh

[toshtoshtosh]

Nevermind!

[Janak Parekh]

Little lesson I learned from my Kyocera 6035 about "flip down" number pads. DON'T USE THEM!
Interesting. My ancient Qualcomm pdQ had a flip, and I never had a problem with it, even when I dropped it. Of course, it was a 10.4oz monster...

--janak

[Will T Smith]

I think it will do OK.

I have to agree with the author, the PocketPC interface is better. I dare say I'd recommend a Handspring Treo before one of these.

[Ben]

However, there's one easy reason why I'd probably never end up getting this device: Memory Stick Duo. Not even a "classic" memory stick slot. I think the largest theoretical Duo sticks available on the market are 64MB, and I don't think anyone's even got their hands on them yet. One major flaw in what looks to be an otherwise decent device.

I've been absolutly shouting this as loud as I can to anyone who will listen! I really cannot understand Sony's obsession with Memory Stick when every other manufactuer on the market (I think without exception?) is sticking to the well establised formats namely SD/MMC and CF/Smartmedia before that.

It's IMHO the biggest problem mobile devices have today - putting an Audio or Video player on a device these days is no big deal, you either have a dedicated chip to do all the decoding or if the device has a fast enough processor anyway you add a relatively small bit of software - however putting enough memory on the device to make that media player actually useful is not quite so cheap and simple. I really though that this wouldn't really be such a big problem any more with a 256mb SD (or even 512mb) costing what it does!

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I've been absolutly shouting this as loud as I can to anyone who will listen! I really cannot understand Sony's obsession with Memory Stick when every other manufactuer on the market (I think without exception?) is sticking to the well establised formats namely SD/MMC and CF/Smartmedia before that.
Well, I don't know how much longer we'll see either MMC or Smartmedia sticking around (certainly SM's days are numbered)... but your argument certainly applies for SD and CF.

That's Sony for ya! We've certainly had our rounds complaining about their MemStick passion.

[gfunkmagic]

The P800 is significant b/c its the 1st major Symbian offering from a company other than Nokia. I think it will sell well in Europe and to a limited extant in the states and elsewhere.

One thing that I find odd though is the double game Sony seems to be playing here. They seem intent on keeping afloat their disasterous partnership w/Ericsson while losing millions and only garnering 6% of the market while totally disavowing any notion of a PalmOS Sony Smartphone. The P800 running PalmOS would have been a much more attrative IMHO, yet Sony is determined to oblige its partnership with Ericsson? I dunno how long Sony can stick with Symbian when it must know a PalmOS smartphone from it would be a success? Also, I am not fully sold on the foretold dominance of Symbian in the mobile market. Even Motorola, a Symbian licensee, acknowledged it would base its future smartphones on Linux, not Symbian. Why should Sony be beholden to Nokia when they already are a licensee of another platform in which they have invested millions into (Palmsource)? This is a critical weakness in the PalmOS camp that one of their major licensees has abdicated an entire emergig segment. But I digress....

[Foo Fighter]

Based on what I've seen I am not that impressed with PPC PE. I realize it is a data device first, and phone function(s) is secondary. But it feels like a ham-fisted solution to me. MS Smartphone is a much better overall compromise.

[aviator]

Ok, well I do have the P800 and I do have a 64mb duo, but I also have the ipaq 5450 and if I could get that with GSM/GPRS capability I would not even consider the P800. Its a novel phone and has some interesting aspects but a pocketpc with wifi and GSM/GPRS would be my choice anyday.

[Shaun Stuart]

I have used a PDA for many years now and have been looking for the ideal combined Phone/PDA device for some time - I tried the 9210 but this was just to bulky, moved on to the XDA for a short trial and could never get use to holding it to my ear - the lack of bluetooth was also dissapointing. My last purchase was the MS Smartphone from Orange (SPV)

The SPV is potentially an excellent device and I really want to like it -
but the reality is the potential is not being fulfilled.

The battery life is the worst on any phone I have owned, the screen now has a great deal of dust behind it - its only 6 weeks old - (Sound familiar Ipaq users ?)

The so called update to resolve the many "minor bugs" is still not available in the UK and from what we have heard will probably address only a few of the problems.

The application signing issue (Where developers have to pay Orange a significant sum before they will certify the software to use on the phone) has killed software development - only hacking - will resolve this
and that workaround may only work until they fix the hole in the next update.

Orange support has been pathetic at times. The manual actually states features not yet available on the smartphone and their support staff know little if anything about the device and how to set it up.

So - after much deliberation I placed my order for a SE P800 today
(http://www.sonyericsson.com/uk/spg.jsp?page=start) its considerably more expensive than the contract SPV but I am purchasing it unlocked direct from Sony. I have been reading several newsgroups over the last few weeks and there appear to be significantly less issues with the software, the battery life is reported to be very good and there is already a large number of third party applications available.

I will hold on to my SPV for a while to see if anything changes
over the next few months - I really hope things will change but I will not hold my breath.

Microsoft need to get there skates on to recover lost ground to Symbian in Europe, there are now 4 Phone/PDA Devices running with some form of Symbian Software Nokia 7650 3650 9210 and now the SE P800. There are more expected to follow shortly.

[Janak Parekh]

Ok, well I do have the P800 and I do have a 64mb duo
Ah! 64MB Duos are now available? Wasn't the case when I last checked. I'll edit my post slightly.

So - after much deliberation I placed my order for a SE P800 today
(http://www.sonyericsson.com/uk/spg.jsp?page=start) its considerably more expensive than the contract SPV but I am purchasing it unlocked direct from Sony. I have been reading several newsgroups over the last few weeks and there appear to be significantly less issues with the software, the battery life is reported to be very good and there is already a large number of third party applications available.
Yes, I've heard good things about the unit too. It seems like they held it back and cleared up a number of issues. They've also improved the RF substantially over the T68i. However, my investment in Pocket PC software and my antagonism to all things Memory Stick are killers for me. Good luck with your purchase, though. Let us know what happens. :)

--janak

[Mobile Bob]

Ok, well I do have the P800 and I do have a 64mb duo, but I also have the ipaq 5450 and if I could get that with GSM/GPRS capability I would not even consider the P800. Its a novel phone and has some interesting aspects but a pocketpc with wifi and GSM/GPRS would be my choice anyday.

What kind of battery life are you experiencing with the P800?

[bdegroodt]

I've been absolutly shouting this as loud as I can to anyone who will listen! I really cannot understand Sony's obsession with Memory Stick when every other manufactuer on the market (I think without exception?) is sticking to the well establised formats namely SD/MMC and CF/Smartmedia before that.

It's IMHO the biggest problem mobile devices have today - putting an Audio or Video player on a device these days is no big deal, you either have a dedicated chip to do all the decoding or if the device has a fast enough processor anyway you add a relatively small bit of software - however putting enough memory on the device to make that media player actually useful is not quite so cheap and simple. I really though that this wouldn't really be such a big problem any more with a 256mb SD (or even 512mb) costing what it does! That's the Sony way. They can make more money off creating proprietary storage formats than going with the open standard (Mem Stick, Mini-Disc, Micro-MV Video etc). It's why I'll never own another Sony product again. I got burned on my DPR-IP5 purchase when I found the tape format to be incompatable with even Sony's own software. I love my T68i, but I like to give credit for that device to Ericsson mostly :P . No plans to move to that P800 either. I'll wait for the PPC response.

[bdegroodt]

Microsoft need to get there skates on to recover lost ground to Symbian in Europe, there are now 4 Phone/PDA Devices running with some form of Symbian Software Nokia 7650 3650 9210 and now the SE P800. There are more expected to follow shortly. They always do and I'm sure they'll make up for any first generation issues in short order. It's the MSFT way. 3rd time is always the charm for them.

[Shaun Stuart]

Ok, well I do have the P800 and I do have a 64mb duo, but I also have the ipaq 5450 and if I could get that with GSM/GPRS capability I would not even consider the P800. Its a novel phone and has some interesting aspects but a pocketpc with wifi and GSM/GPRS would be my choice anyday.


I love my ipaq (3870) and have looked at the 5450 but dont think the form factor is suitable for me as a phone. Now if HP could add GSM/GPRS and bluetooth features to the 1910 then that would be my next device.

[Dom]

As a developer who just got the P800 I can only say WOW ! Let's face it the SPV doesn't come close. I love my iPaqs and XDA but the Sony is the first machine that I have used since the original iPaq came out that I think will change the market. I no longer carry my XDA. I doubt I will concentrate on Pocket PC much longer (Mastersoft Money). This Sony will sell more in it's first six months than the whole Pocket PC crowd can muster in a year (if they can keep up with demand). It's fast (ARM), it's gorgeously consumerist, its is a phone through and through yet the interface is true pda and GORGEOUS. And you get a stylus. As for the SPV ? What a stinker ! Our small company got the most amazingly CRAP service from Orange that we have detailed extensively at our site. As such we wouldn't even consider developing for Smart Phone EVER so long as Orange are the only distributors in the UK. And it doesn't have a stylus. The P800 is the most eagerly anticipated smart device ever. Now that I have one I know why.

[Mobile Bob]

As a developer who just got the P800 I can only say WOW ! Let's face it the SPV doesn't come close. I love my iPaqs and XDA but the Sony is the first machine that I have used since the original iPaq came out that I think will change the market. I no longer carry my XDA. I doubt I will concentrate on Pocket PC much longer (Mastersoft Money). This Sony will sell more in it's first six months than the whole Pocket PC crowd can muster in a year (if they can keep up with demand). It's fast (ARM), it's gorgeously consumerist, its is a phone through and through yet the interface is true pda and GORGEOUS. And you get a stylus. As for the SPV ? What a stinker ! Our small company got the most amazingly CRAP service from Orange that we have detailed extensively at our site. As such we wouldn't even consider developing for Smart Phone EVER so long as Orange are the only distributors in the UK. And it doesn't have a stylus. The P800 is the most eagerly anticipated smart device ever. Now that I have one I know why.

Dom,

Are you developing for the P800?

How is the battery life of the P800?

[Dom]

Hi there Bob,
I haven't really tested the battery life as it's either in my pocket or being coded via the cradle. I've heard good things though when compared to my XDA but then the Sony does have a slightly lower resolution (208 x 320) and I've always been one for keeping the backlight on. However it is much smaller than the XDA except in thickness (slightly thicker).
Dom

[Mobile Bob]

Hi there Bob,
I haven't really tested the battery life as it's either in my pocket or being coded via the cradle. I've heard good things though when compared to my XDA but then the Sony does have a slightly lower resolution (208 x 320) and I've always been one for keeping the backlight on. However it is much smaller than the XDA except in thickness (slightly thicker).
Dom

Dom,

Thank you for responding. Sounds like the P800 is very pocketable, even though it is a little thicker than the XDA. I had an XDA, and loved it, until I lost it while getting off of a plane at O'Hare Airport in Chicago. :(

I'm a computer science student who wants to begin programming for the Pocket PC (when the Compact Framework becomes available), but I am also interested in Symbian development. The problem is, I would like to take some training courses and read some good books to get started, but neither are as accessible/available in the U.S. (for Symbian) as they probably are in the UK. If anyone knows of any resources available in the U.S., please let me know.

[defcon]

http://www.sonyericsson.com/downloads/P800_Opera.sis?traceClick=yes

[marconelly]

I really cannot understand Sony's obsession with Memory Stick when every other manufactuer on the market (I think without exception?) is sticking to the well establised formats namely SD/MMC and CF/Smartmedia before that.
A friend of mine has a MiniDV camcorder that has a slot for MemSticks, and I know for certain it's not Sony's model. I think it's either Toshiba or Samsung. I was quite surprised as I thought Sony was the only one to use them, but apparently others have adopted them too.

[Janak Parekh]

A friend of mine has a MiniDV camcorder that has a slot for MemSticks, and I know for certain it's not Sony's model. I think it's either Toshiba or Samsung. I was quite surprised as I thought Sony was the only one to use them, but apparently others have adopted them too.
A few manufacturers have. Most are (fortunately) staying away. Frankly, I don't get it for MiniDV anyway: there should be enough space on the unit for CompactFlash on the unit, and you'd get much higher capacities...

Sony does license the technology, but I don't think it's very cheap to do so.

--janak

[SJ]

I've owned the P-800 even before Christmas last year and these are my views of the P-800 (compared to PPC/PPC2002PE):

Phone Function:
As a phone the signal strength is average, it has a poor battery life (even worse than XDA if you use the PDA function a lot) which can only last for one day. it is way superior with its contact, SMS, voice dialing integration.

PDA Function:
Too minimalist. Task switching is slow, even opening a text file takes a bit of time. There are emulators for MAME, GameBoy etc but the speed is too slow to make them enjoyable. Software quality is another issue, for example the paid one like HandySafe is not only expensive but also lacks functions compared to eWallet. The OS also suffer the memory leaking problem like PPC, when it happens the camera won't be able to show any views unless if you reset the device.

Hardware:
P-800 is a breakthrough design. It has everything that you ever wanted, Bluetooth, IrDA, GSM/GPRS, Tri-bands, camera, touchscreen/keyboards options, speakerphone, polyphonic tones etc. all in a small package.

The bottom line: This device is a smartphone, it has its edges on the phone features but it's really not comparable with PocketPC in terms of its PDA function. So beware that you don't keep your hope very high for P-800, otherwise you'll be disapointed.

As for me, nothing can replace my iPAQ 5450 yet :wink:

[Janak Parekh]

I've owned the P-800 even before Christmas last year and these are my views of the P-800 (compared to PPC/PPC2002PE)
I agree with most of your points, but do be aware that they've supposedly fixed some of the issues with the prerelease/developer firmwares. But absolutely, powerwise I'd take the PPCPE any day. I suspect the P800 falls somewhere between the Smartphone and the Pocket PC Phone Edition in overall functionality.

--janak

[Dom]

Well the signal strength on my XDA is lousy compared to the Sony. My P800 is the full release. I think if you are techie like a lot of us are on these forums then you will always prefer the Pocket PC. However I also think that the P800 will sell to the masses in a way that the Pocket PC can only dream of as for your average consumer it hits the nail on the head. If you are obsessed by Pocket PC you WILL see fault in the P800, but bear in mind that the 7650 (which sucks compared to P800) sold 2 Million over Christmas which is about the same as the best Pocket PC OEMs manage in a year. Then there's the fact that these phone companies have distribution channels that Pocket PC can't hope to match. Finally phones evolve really fast unlike the Pocket PC that is no faster or much better than it was almost 4 years ago :)
Dom

[Janak Parekh]

Well the signal strength on my XDA is lousy compared to the Sony.
With the upgraded firmware? The XDA has had notable improvement in reception.

However I also think that the P800 will sell to the masses in a way that the Pocket PC can only dream of as for your average consumer it hits the nail on the head.
In Europe, yes. I suspect we'll see more Pocket PC Phones than P800s here in the US -- there isn't even a target release date for the P800 here. :cry:

Then there's the fact that these phone companies have distribution channels that Pocket PC can't hope to match.
Depends on your market. Here, the distribution channels are reversed; Pocket PCs are everywhere, phones are only at carrier kiosks. The Pocket PC Phone has as much accessibility than the P800 would have were it to be sold here.

--janak

[Dom]

This is interesting and shows what happens I guess when phone companies are doing well. They are so big over here that they don't seem in a rush to get SP3 out for the XDA. I still have not been able to get the upgrade for my XDA and in truth the reception at present is a show stopper. Didn't realise there isn't even a release date in US ! Now if Sony built a Pocket PC :0))) But it will never happen ....

[Bosco]

A friend of mine has a MiniDV camcorder that has a slot for MemSticks, and I know for certain it's not Sony's model. I think it's either Toshiba or Samsung. I was quite surprised as I thought Sony was the only one to use them, but apparently others have adopted them too.
A few manufacturers have. Most are (fortunately) staying away. Frankly, I don't get it for MiniDV anyway: there should be enough space on the unit for CompactFlash on the unit, and you'd get much higher capacities...

Sony does license the technology, but I don't think it's very cheap to do so.

You may be surprised to hear that Memory Stick has been adopted by more companies than Secure Digital. I'll try to dig up my source.

Sony isn't the only handheld company using Memory Sticks. Don't forget about Acer...

[Janak Parekh]

You may be surprised to hear that Memory Stick has been adopted by more companies than Secure Digital. I'll try to dig up my source.
Maybe licensed, but not actually in production.

Sony isn't the only handheld company using Memory Sticks. Don't forget about Acer...
... and a number of others. Most of them are small-market players, though, except for Sony -- in all of the PDA market, not just Pocket PC.

--janak

[Bosco]

http://www.memorystick.com/en/ms/index.html

Check it out. It's suprising to see the various products that use Memory Stick. Sony, Hitachi, Samsung, Konica making digital cameras, printers, etc.

For those of you that are predicting that Sony stop using Memory Stick in their Clies, IMO, at best, they'll incorporate SD in addition to MS.

[Janak Parekh]

Check it out. It's suprising to see the various products that use Memory Stick. Sony, Hitachi, Samsung, Konica making digital cameras, printers, etc.
Ah yes, I suspected that would be the case. I was talking about PDAs myself.

For those of you that are predicting that Sony stop using Memory Stick in their Clies, IMO, at best, they'll incorporate SD in addition to MS.
No, they'll never, ever adopt SD if I read it correctly. I hope they can be persuaded to support CF on their PDAs since they already have the electrical contacts in place.

--janak

[Bosco]

Don't speak too soon. Sony has actually made a digital camera that uses SD in addition to MS, and that's why I said that above. This may actually be the case if MSPro doesn't sell too well. I'm interested in 1 GB of MP3 and videos for my NX, but if I have to pay $800 for it, good lord no. I'd rather buy a $30 CF driver from that guy that is going around to the various sites asking if there is enough interest to develop the driver and then buy a 1 GB Microdrive. That would be an easier solution.