TDS Recon: Ruggedized CE .Net device

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.tdsway.com/?Sec1=products&grp=svy&Sec2=tdsreconseries&Sec3=overview' target='_blank'>http://www.tdsway.com/?Sec1=product...s&Sec3=overview</a><br /><br /></div>Add yet another ruggedized device to the list of OEM devices running CE .Net. What I found interesting, though, was the screenshots of the device. Check out the XP/Bliss-like menus and color scheme! There are a few more shots on their site, as well as pictures of the unit itself (which, by the way, weighs about 17 ounces).<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/desktop_startmenu.gif" />

[JMountford]

I had heard of the Recon before. Looks like a sturdy device.
It would be nice if it ran PPC instead of CE 4 simply to make it more compatiple with current peripherals, but it is still a neet looking device and I like the screen shots.

[bcre8v2]

:?:
I guess I'm confused...
When are CE.net (CE 4.0/4.1) devices slated to hit the market?
The Recon is obviously shipping, but how many other manufacturers have new products?
Thanks for any updates.

[Foo Fighter]

Oh no! It's Palm-Size PC part duex. 8O

[PapaSmurfDan]

:?:
I guess I'm confused...
When are CE.net (CE 4.0/4.1) devices slated to hit the market?
The Recon is obviously shipping, but how many other manufacturers have new products?
Thanks for any updates.

WinCE 4.1 is out, and you can download the 120-day eval copy of the WinCE 4.1 from MS if you were thinking about making a device. The devices should start to roll out anytime soon. Regarding the PPC OS based on WinCE.net, what everyone here wants to know about, has been rather silent.

The Recon looks like a nice rugged device.

[EvilOne]

So it looks like the next generation of devices are losing the TODAY screen of the PocketPCs? And they are going back to the same taskbar area like the WinCE 2.X? I saw this in the Emulator for the device, but I was hoping that it was not true, anyone knows anything more about this?

[JonnoB]

So it looks like the next generation of devices are losing the TODAY screen of the PocketPCs? And they are going back to the same taskbar area like the WinCE 2.X? I saw this in the Emulator for the device, but I was hoping that it was not true, anyone knows anything more about this?

The Today screen is a PocketPC feature. PocketPC uses the WinCE kernal, but has its own apps. This is not a PocketPC device, just a device running WinCE 4

[Peter Foot]

So it looks like the next generation of devices are losing the TODAY screen of the PocketPCs? And they are going back to the same taskbar area like the WinCE 2.X? I saw this in the Emulator for the device, but I was hoping that it was not true, anyone knows anything more about this?

The Today screen is a PocketPC feature. PocketPC uses the WinCE kernal, but has its own apps. This is not a PocketPC device, just a device running WinCE 4

Pocket PC 2003 (Whether that will be the official name I don't know) will be built on Windows CE 4.2. CE 4.2 is supposed to harmonise the Pocket PC APIs with the CE 4.x APIs and should therefore allow the Pocket PC platform to run in parallel with future Windows CE releases, rather than lagging behind while a truckload of custom code is written around an older version of the core OS. I should imagine it will probably maintain a UI much more like the existing Pocket PC UI than this "Squish a desktop PC into a handheld" approach used by generic CE 4.1 devices. Its expected to arrive sometime in the first half of this year but anything could happen and theres been very little information let slip about it...

[jpaq]

Agreed.

Looks like Windows CE 2.11 with a prettier icon set and a desktop.

So, Pocket PC was developed becasue everyone said that the CE 2.11 interface was not ideal for small screen devices.
Now we see a next generation OS with the same interface that was previously determined to not ideal.

OK.

I'll take a scotch and soda. Hold the soda.

:?

[Bob Anderson]

So it looks like the next generation of devices are losing the TODAY screen of the PocketPCs? And they are going back to the same taskbar area like the WinCE 2.X? I saw this in the Emulator for the device, but I was hoping that it was not true, anyone knows anything more about this?

The Today screen is a PocketPC feature. PocketPC uses the WinCE kernal, but has its own apps. This is not a PocketPC device, just a device running WinCE 4

Pocket PC 2003 (Whether that will be the official name I don't know) will be built on Windows CE 4.2. CE 4.2 is supposed to harmonise the Pocket PC APIs with the CE 4.x APIs and should therefore allow the Pocket PC platform to run in parallel with future Windows CE releases, rather than lagging behind while a truckload of custom code is written around an older version of the core OS. I should imagine it will probably maintain a UI much more like the existing Pocket PC UI than this "Squish a desktop PC into a handheld" approach used by generic CE 4.1 devices. Its expected to arrive sometime in the first half of this year but anything could happen and theres been very little information let slip about it...

So PPC 2003 is just a "superset" of features glued onto the kernel... which explains why this device's interface looks so "old", no one has the time and money to spend polishing a user interface like Microsoft can - hence the Pocket PC UI!

I am so READY for some serious changes with PPC - high on my list of wishes is to dump connection mangler, so to hear rumblings that it's due in the 1st half of 2003 is encouraging!

[Jonathan1]

Ummm ICK.?!? Why in the world would you release a CE based device and not jack up the res? Plus the plain vanilla start menu and honking icons on the "desktop" scream "No planning in the GUI.” They just don't work on such as low res screen. Compared to bsquare's Maui and Samsung’s NEXiO S160 it looks kinda crappy, IMHO of course :P :)

[JMountford]

hopefully we will earn a lot more from the MVPs when they return from their conference.

That is hoping that they are willing and allowed to share as is so often NOT the case.

[EvilOne]

Pocket PC 2003 (Whether that will be the official name I don't know) will be built on Windows CE 4.2. CE 4.2 is supposed to harmonise the Pocket PC APIs with the CE 4.x APIs and should therefore allow the Pocket PC platform to run in parallel with future Windows CE releases, rather than lagging behind while a truckload of custom code is written around an older version of the core OS. I should imagine it will probably maintain a UI much more like the existing Pocket PC UI than this "Squish a desktop PC into a handheld" approach used by generic CE 4.1 devices. Its expected to arrive sometime in the first half of this year but anything could happen and theres been very little information let slip about it...

Ok, that makes sense, I was wondering where all the PocketPC related APIs had dispappeared.. One day I they will release the SDK out. Just have to wait for it to come.

[Will T Smith]

Ummm ICK.?!? Why in the world would you release a CE based device and not jack up the res? Plus the plain vanilla start menu and honking icons on the "desktop" scream "No planning in the GUI.” They just don't work on such as low res screen. Compared to bsquare's Maui and Samsung’s NEXiO S160 it looks kinda crappy, IMHO of course :P :)

Well seeing that PocketPC devices only support 320x240, anyone who wants Clie level graphics must ship using CE.NET. A surveying product probably has a need for higher resolution in their displays to keep all the "jaggies" away.

Seriously, you guys are looking at this the wrong way. CE is the base OS for all of Microsoft's "mobile" oriented products, including Mira displays, handheld PC, AND of course PocketPC.

Shipping raw CE is attractive for vertical markets (like say, LAND SURVEYING appliances) because PocketPC licensing just plain costs more. If this company wanted, they could have built their own custom shell (as there are no licensing constraints) and ditched the default Windows-esque shell built into the core CE operating system. In my opinion, they would do well to create a simplified shell.

As others have noted, PocketPC 2003 will be built on top of CE.net. PocketPC is essentially a licensed consumer oriented general purpose Palm-Optimized OS. It specializes on the generic CE operating system. The next version will have support for arbitrary sized displays and that should enable products like this to be shipped with PocketPC, though I really question why they would given that this is a vertical product and they should concentrate and their core market.

Beyond that, I think this is an excellent offering. I am somewhat shocked however by the lack of integrated differential GPS in a product that absoluetly cries for it.

I would expect to see some devices like this with PocketPC oriented towards outdoorsman. Rugged, waterproof, big battery, integrated low-res camera, integrated kill/catch database :-) The Elmer Fudd/Babe Winkleman PDA, you get my drift. :-)

[CafeCat]

Maybe you are right.

PocketPC 2003 &lt;> ce.net

[Thefo]

Anyone else notice that instead of Pocket Word it is more appropriately named, Microsoft WordPad :D

[Jason Dunn]

So, Pocket PC was developed becasue everyone said that the CE 2.11 interface was not ideal for small screen devices.
Now we see a next generation OS with the same interface that was previously determined to not ideal.

No no no! 8O

It drives me insane when I see this! :evil: The bottom line is this: Windows CE 4.x is the underlying OS, and just because some crazy OEM tries to cram it onto a small screen does NOT make it a Pocket PC. These CE.Net-based devices are complete crap - you can't cram a shell UI onto a portrait device.

The easiest way to understand this is that Windows CE .Net TECHNOLOGIES go into the Pocket PC, not the USER INTERFACE.

Hope that's clear. :D

[Peter Foot]

So, Pocket PC was developed becasue everyone said that the CE 2.11 interface was not ideal for small screen devices.
Now we see a next generation OS with the same interface that was previously determined to not ideal.

No no no! 8O

It drives me insane when I see this! :evil: The bottom line is this: Windows CE 4.x is the underlying OS, and just because some crazy OEM tries to cram it onto a small screen does NOT make it a Pocket PC. These CE.Net-based devices are complete crap - you can't cram a shell UI onto a portrait device.

The easiest way to understand this is that Windows CE .Net TECHNOLOGIES go into the Pocket PC, not the USER INTERFACE.

Hope that's clear. :D

Sadly the assumption is that the bigger the version number the better it is, although the underlying OS is newer in actual fact marketing a device without a purpose designed UI on this size of screen is a real backwards step and just not thought out well by the OEM. Maybe its cheaper for them to license the vanilla CE .NET OS than the Pocket PC Platform, however this leaves you with a crappy device...