Movies on PPC

[bgate]

I would love some advice/opinions regarding watching movies on a PPC. I have read in other posts that people will sometimes watch flicks on their PPC. I don't remember much detail beyond that.

A) Is it worth it (image/sound quality)?
B) What software is used for ripping/viewing?
C) How big are the files?
D) Is this only for downloaded flicks or do people rip from DVDs they own?

I am sure I have missed a ton of detail-but thoughts?

Thanks & GB the families of the Columbia astronauts.
Brent

[Steven Cedrone]

I would love some advice/opinions regarding watching movies on a PPC. I have read in other posts that people will sometimes watch flicks on their PPC. I don't remember much detail beyond that.

A) Is it worth it (image/sound quality)?
B) What software is used for ripping/viewing?
C) How big are the files?
D) Is this only for downloaded flicks or do people rip from DVDs they own?

I am sure I have missed a ton of detail-but thoughts?

Thanks & GB the families of the Columbia astronauts.
Brent

One of the most prolific posters about movies on the Pocket PC is a user named Monty Gibson - better known as "DsnyFmly" in the Pocket PC Phone Edition forum. Post a link to your question here in that forum, I'm sure he would be glad to help you out!!!

Steve

[spursdude]

You can check out the FAQs at PocketMovies (http://www.pocketmovies.net/dvdrip.php) andPocketMatrix (http://www.pocketmatrix.com/guides/).

The image and sound quality depends, but it is pretty good quality generally. The software for viewing is usually PocketMVP (http://home.adelphia.net/~mdukette/index.htm) for DivX, PocketTV (http://www.mpegtv.com/wince/pockettv/) for mpeg, or Windows Media Player (already on your PPC) for playing .wmv.

You can either download videos (illegal!) or rip your own DVDs.

[dotcomguy]

I tried playing some WMV files on my new PPC with the included WIndows Media Player and it was somewhat choppy, not sure what the problem is since so many people watch video on theirs :-\

You will need a lot of space for videos though. ;)

[spursdude]

I tried playing some WMV files on my new PPC with the included WIndows Media Player and it was somewhat choppy, not sure what the problem is since so many people watch video on theirs :-\


Were the WMV files meant to be played on a PPC? If you were playing a very large file with huge resolution and a high FPS rate, it'll probably run choppy. If you encode it specially for PPC, like 320x240 at 20 or 30 fps, then it will run more smoothly.

[dotcomguy]

Were the WMV files meant to be played on a PPC? If you were playing a very large file with huge resolution and a high FPS rate, it'll probably run choppy. If you encode it specially for PPC, like 320x240 at 20 or 30 fps, then it will run more smoothly.
Ah, good point. Thanks for pointing that out. :) Happen to know of any good apps to convert media files? :)

[bmhome1]

I was anxious to experience full movies and clips on my new 3955 without having to learn all the tricks of converting files.

I found on ebay several sellers listing CD's with several WMP full-length films, and MPEG clips (not sure about the legal issues). The CD set I bought for $5.95 included 3 full-length features (The Fifth Element, one of my faves, was one) and many MPEG shorts ready to play.

The Fifth Element is only 200MB total, and while a little choppy and small, pretty impressive. The MPEG clips played on PocketTV are sensational quality full-screen, and impress everyone.

It least this method lets you experience what is possible with little effort or frustration. The conversion learning-curve seems a bit complex for the beginner.

[Brad Adrian]

A) Is it worth it (image/sound quality)?
I personally feel it's great to have some movies to watch on my iPAQ, especially for long plane flights. I also love having the ability to show off my Pocket PCs by playing a movie where people can see it.

[spursdude]

Ah, good point. Thanks for pointing that out. :) Happen to know of any good apps to convert media files? :)

If you have Windows Movie Maker (comes with WinXP), that should do the trick. You can set the settings right there.

You can also use Windows Media Encoder (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/9series/encoder/default.aspx).

[dotcomguy]

Ah, good point. Thanks for pointing that out. :) Happen to know of any good apps to convert media files? :)

If you have Windows Movie Maker (comes with WinXP), that should do the trick. You can set the settings right there.

You can also use Windows Media Encoder (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/9series/encoder/default.aspx).
Good call. Thanks, it's much better now. :D

[Buddha]

If you want to convert one of your dvds to a pocketpc movie here are some programs:

Use 'SmartRipper' or 'DVD-Decrypter' to copy the dvd to your HD
Use 'DVD2AVI' to be able to open the DVDfiles in VirtualDub
Use 'VirtualDub' to convert it to DivX

As for Image quality, you'll get the best quality if you use DivX5 in 2pass mode but this is the most work. The easiest way is making a WMV, but the quality is lower.

As for the settings this depends on how much space you have, if you're low on space then ususally a normal movie should have a resolution of 240x128 or if its a TV show it would be 240x192

If you have space by the loads then I would use this: 320x176 for movies and 320x240 for TVshows

For the sound you have to convert it to MP3 32kbps/48kbps MONO


Converting a DVD is not an 'easy' process in the beginning but once you know how it works it's a breeze.

But its never a process where you pop-in a dvd and press 1 buttons and your done.

If you want to know more on converting some of your dvds i suggest you read and follow some of the guides on Doom9 (http://www.doom9.org) all the programs mentioned above are available there in the download section aswell. Also check the guides on PocketMatrix (http://www.pocketmatrix.com/guides/) there is also a guide there to convert movies to MPEG, but i advise you to use DivX as the filesize of a divx movie are smaller and the quality is better.

[vincentsiaw]

if you have tv capture card installed in your computer, you can even record directly from tv shows, then later edit the advertisement! i like to record the simpson...

[hamslay]

Buddha, why record in mono?

[Monty Gibson]

One of the most prolific posters about movies on the Pocket PC is a user named Monty Gibson - better known as "DsnyFmly" in the Pocket PC Phone Edition forum. Post a link to your question here in that forum, I'm sure he would be glad to help you out!!!

Steve

:oops: Goosh... thanks... :lol:

[Monty Gibson]

I would love some advice/opinions regarding watching movies on a PPC. I have read in other posts that people will sometimes watch flicks on their PPC. I don't remember much detail beyond that.

A) Is it worth it (image/sound quality)?
B) What software is used for ripping/viewing?
C) How big are the files?
D) Is this only for downloaded flicks or do people rip from DVDs they own?

I am sure I have missed a ton of detail-but thoughts?

Thanks & GB the families of the Columbia astronauts.
Brent

First your questions:

A.) Image/Sound Quality: It's not an HDTV, don't pretend it will be. It won't be. Nor will it be a surround sound theater; however, with a good ear cupping headset it will sound awesome (note: NOT regular headphones). The quality is good to excellent depending on your expectations, your watching movies on a little Pocket PC, if anything it's cool :wink:.

B.) See Below.

C.) See Below: Usually a typical 1-2 hour movie is 100-200 megs. Every hour usually equals 100 megabytes (it also depends on your settings quality file settings).

D.) Ripping from CD's you own, or that you "borrow" from neighbors :wink:. Um, disregard that statement if anyone from the FBI is watching.

Now, on with it:

Brent,

Ask yourself this before you begin. How bad do you want to watch movies on your Pocket PC and why do you want to do this? For me, personally, I have some down time at work and I have the ability to watch a movie during that time, read a book, play a game, etc. I also drive quite a bit and enjoy being able to watch it while my wife drives or while I drive, she can watch a movie on her PPC.

The reason why I ask you this is because it takes up to 4 hours (depending on the computer you have) to encode a movie. It's slow... it's not hard, nor "daunting." It takes approximately 180-200 megabytes of space, so you have to have some type of memory card. Are you willing to let go of this much space for one movie?

If you're still willing to do all of this then do the following:

1.) Learn some terms in this glossary; in case it becomes confusing :wink:!:

http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/

2.) Go to this website and save the website and all of its contents onto your computer (in Internet Explorer: FILE->SAVE AS->PICK A DIRECTORY TO SAVE IT TO THEN->SAVE) you're going to use it a LOT for reference. It's a good tutorial; and I would have written one myself, but this does an excellent job at doing it, so don't fix what isn't broken:

http://www.pocketmovies.net/dvdrip.php

NOTE: MAKE SURE YOU SAVED THE WEBPAGE AS "WEBPAGE COMPLETE!"

3.) Download SmartRipper:

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/dvd_rippers/smartripper.cfm

This rips the VOB files (see glossary; #1 above).

4.) Download TMPGEnc:

http://www.tmpgenc.net/e_main.html

This merges the VOB files and the audio files together to create an .MPEG.

5.) Download DVD2AVI:

http://arbor.ee.ntu.edu.tw/%7Ejackei/dvd2avi/

This extracts the audio from the DVD files.

6.) Load the DVD you wish to rip into your DVD drive on your computer and follow the EXACT instructions on that tutorial! I can't stress this enough! It is setup in a way that you CAN NOT FAIL! It's going to take a while so don't think something is wrong with the process, it's just a pain in the neck.

7.) After your .MPG (.MPEG) file is complete you're going to have a very large file. I personally don't agree with putting a .MPG on my Pocket PC due to the fact that it's just too large. I always send it through Windows Movie Maker to compress it down to 100-200 megs; if your using Windows XP then you're in luck.

8.) Download Windows Movie Maker:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/moviemaker/downloads/moviemaker2.asp

9.) Import your .MPG into Windows Movie Maker and save it using the Pocket PC format that is already available for you (back in the day we used to have to do this manually; that was a task).

10.) After your movie is done then put it on your card and enjoy!


References and personal opinion:

-Use Dolby Dobly Digital Sound for audio
-Use 48->44.1 kHz for audio sampling
-Download, register and use PictPocket Cinema as your viewer instead of Windows Media Player. It supports 12bit dithering which makes all movies look better:

http://www.digisoftdirect.com/Products/PictPocketCinema.html

Any questions? PM me as I usually "live" in the Pocket PC Phone Edition Forum :?.

[bgate]

DisnFmly,

Thank-you very much for the assistance. It looks like I need to dedicate some time (and free up some space on that SD card). I'm going to give it a shot-just when, I don't know.

Once again-Thanks,
Brent

[Buddha]

hamslay,

Because stereo takes up almost twice the space. By converting it to mono you end up with better sound quality at the same bitrate. if you use stereo at 32kbps you effectively use 16kbps for the audio, 16 for the left channel and 16 for the right channel, while if you use mono you have 32kbps for one channel.

Another thing that I've heard (but am not sure of) is that stereo requires more processing from your PPC, which results in that there's less left for processing the video and that can lead to dropped frames'.

[Buddha]

Regarding DsneFmly's very nice walkthrough:

I know that it's less important because of the small resolution of the movie but still, converting a source twice will reduce picture quality( or wash it even more out) and introduce more compression artifacts due to the fact that when you convert the MPG again to WMV your compressing something that has already been compressed. I could go into details but I won't. :)

I'll admit, i'm a firm Divx believer but I still would advise you to go with the 'Direct to DivX (or WMV if that is your thing) convertion' instead of first to MPEG and then to WMV.

As for leaving it an MPEG: MPEG4-video (DivX and WMV) gives higher quality at lower bitrates so MPEG is absolutely not advisable you'd just be wasting tons of space.

[Monty Gibson]

DisnFmly,

Thank-you very much for the assistance. It looks like I need to dedicate some time (and free up some space on that SD card). I'm going to give it a shot-just when, I don't know.

Once again-Thanks,
Brent

You're very welcome. Glad I can/could help. If you need any more assistance just PM me.

[Deliverance]

I found the DivX guide on www.pocketmatrix.com to be a superb training tool. It walks you through everything.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

4.) Download TMPGEnc:

http://www.tmpgenc.net/e_main.html

This merges the VOB files and the audio files together to create an .MPEG.

5.) Download DVD2AVI:

http://arbor.ee.ntu.edu.tw/%7Ejackei/dvd2avi/

This extracts the audio from the DVD files.


Great Post!! That must have took forever to put together!!

Anyway, I happened to be messing with all these utilities quite a bit last week and I found that converting the DVD to MPG first was not necessary. I'm using Gordian Knot (available at http://www.doom9.org), which uses DVDDecryptor to copy the VOB files to my HD (SmartRipper works just as well though) and then have GordianKnot convert the AC3 audio to high bitrate MP3 using some command line program (which I then convert to WAV using dBPowerAMP music converter).

Then using VirtualDub, I have it point to the project created by DVD2AVI and then load the WAV file (which I compress to 96kbps MP3, 44.1KHz, Stereo... truly no need for inferior mono sound like Buddha was recommending). I trim the resolution to somewhere around 254x170 (not sure of the exact dimensions off the top of my head) @250kbps and use DivX 4.12 encoder and I get a sharp-looking skip-free film with terrific stereo sound.

I ripped a 1hour 45min movie into a 235MB file... can easily fit two of these on my 512MB card.

The one thing you have to remember with this approach though is that when VirtualDub is combining the VOB video with the WAV file, you really need to leave your computer alone as any activity that spikes CPU utilization can through the timing off.

My best advice to anyone is NOT get bogged down by all the complicated instructions. Just start simple by ripping a minute's worth of DVD material and try all possible methods of creating a movie. DON'T EXPECT TO BE SUCCESSFUL ON YOUR FIRST ATTEMPT, THERE IS A STEEP LEARNING CURVE!!

[Buddha]

ekkie,
The idea behind using mono sound was quality versus size, with in mind that not everybody has a 1GBmicrodrive or 512MBCard. A typical 90 mins movie I make will be around 115 to 140MB which compared to a 235MB file leaves me more than a 100MB extra to spend on a second movie/show or MP3's. Of course you can always push the quality a lot higher but since space is something 'precious' for most PPC-users (am I wrong?) I think the road lies somewhere in the middle... You use lower resolution, which in itself (at the same bitrate) gives better image but also makes the image even more smaller than a ppc screen already is. As usual its all a question of personal preferences. :lol: (like with people who prefer wma, mp3 or ogg)

btw great tip of that starting with just a small bit of movie, that is the best way to find out what your own idea of 'acceptable quality' is. Just make several clips at several videobitrates, audiobitrates and resolutions, and compare them all on your PPC.

[bgate]

I did it :D !

I took a short from the Monsters Inc. DVD I own and now have Mike's New Car on my PPC! I took the advice of some and started with a small flick, that definitely helps (I chose the wrong VOB from the DVD)-didn't waste too much time :wink: . Now I'll play with some of the settings, but thanks to all for your help. Now, where was that post with the cheap CF cards....

Brent

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

ekkie,
The idea behind using mono sound was quality versus size, with in mind that not everybody has a 1GBmicrodrive or 512MBCard.
Buddha, you're absolutely right! I was a little over-zealous about my recent results... playing a full-length video with 96kbps mp3 sound was unbelievable to me, but as stated, everyone makes different sacrifices with either size, sound, framerates, etc.

btw great tip of that starting with just a small bit of movie, that is the best way to find out what your own idea of 'acceptable quality' is. Just make several clips at several videobitrates, audiobitrates and resolutions, and compare them all on your PPC.
ABSOLUTELY!!! This is the best way to figure it all out. I've read through like 3 different guides on ripping movies and got confused by them all. Ripping short segments reduces wasted time. I'm glad bgate benefitted from this advice.

[Monty Gibson]

4.) Download TMPGEnc:

http://www.tmpgenc.net/e_main.html

This merges the VOB files and the audio files together to create an .MPEG.

5.) Download DVD2AVI:

http://arbor.ee.ntu.edu.tw/%7Ejackei/dvd2avi/

This extracts the audio from the DVD files.


Great Post!! That must have took forever to put together!!



Thank you. I didn't take that long; probably about 10 minutes or so.

[spursdude]

Now, where was that post with the cheap CF cards....

Well, Amazon has a 512MB CF card for around $150 or so... or you can get a 1GB card if you want; there was a front page post for it a few days ago.

[don dre]

A little of topic, but after having ripped the DVD you are left with a few VOB files. You say they must be combined and then converted. however, if I were to make a "back-up" copy onto a DVD-R, can I burn the VOB files as is or do I need a program to combine them? For this purpose I would like to retain the AC-3 sound as well as all the original information. Has anyone used Ahead's Nero DVD burning program?

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

A little of topic, but after having ripped the DVD you are left with a few VOB files. You say they must be combined and then converted. however, if I were to make a "back-up" copy onto a DVD-R, can I burn the VOB files as is or do I need a program to combine them? For this purpose I would like to retain the AC-3 sound as well as all the original information. Has anyone used Ahead's Nero DVD burning program?

I don't know about Nero's DVD burning program but I've heard lots about the new DVD XCopy product that's getting a lot of pub (MPAA filing lawsuits for their ability to make DVD backups...). Those products are supposed to make perfect backups complete with AC3, menus, subtitles, etc. I seem to remember seeing them a CompUSA for under $99.

[Buddha]

You can't just burn a bunch of VOBs to a disc (as usual) it takes quite some work if you want to do it correctly and to add to that nowadays dvds are often on a DVD9 which can contain twice the data of the old dvd's that means that even if you were to make an image of it you can't burn it since recordable DVDs can only hold about 4GB while a DVD9 can have up to 8GB of data. So you would have to either cut the movie in half and remaster it (lot of work) or transcode it to a lower bitrate (a lot of work aswell) but this means also losing quality. These 'automatic' programs are nice but if the movie is bigger than +/-4GB as usual the 'easiness' comes with losing quality.

If you want to know more go do a lot of reading 8O at: Doom9 (http://www.doom9.net)

[bgate]

Quick question for my movie friends. I followed the instructions from pocketmovies.net but can't seem to find where to convert the sound to mono. I am hoping that will ease the processor burden on my Axim and the full screen image won't drop too many frames.

Thanks,
Brent

[Buddha]

I don't know if your making a divx or an MPEG,

If its a DivX here is ONE way:

-First convert the .AC3 soundfile to .WAV
-Get LAME 3.92 (http://www.mpex.net/software/download/lamedll.html) and RazorLAME 1.15 (http://www.dors.de/razorlame/download.php).
-unzip everything to one directory.


-Start RazorLAME
-goto 'Edit/LAME Options'
-goto the 'Expert' tab
-In 'Custom options' fill in: -b 48 -m m -h --resample 44.1
(this will give a 48kbps MP3 MONO 44.1kHz)
-tick the 'Only use custom options' box
-Press 'Ok'

Now drag the .WAV file from your movie onto the RazorLAME window and press ENCODE.

That's it!

[Buddha]

If it's an MPEG your making, with TMPEG then what you can do is:

In TMPEG only load an 'Audio source' (load the .WAV file)
-Make sure the 'Stream type' is set to 'Audio only'
-Press Load
-goto to the directory 'extra', there you should see a file called 'unlock.mcf' load that one.
-then goto 'Setting' (bottom right)
-goto the Audio tab, the Stream Type should be 'MPEG-1 Audio Layer II.
-The frequency: i'd say 44100Hz
-The Channel Mode: MONO
-The bitrate: whatever you want it to be :)

Press 'OK' and you now have set the sound to MONO.
Press 'Start' to start encoding it to a .MP2 file.



Afterwards if you already have encoded the video to MPEG1 you can then 'merge' (called Multiplexing aka muxing) the sound and the video back together.

-In TMPEG goto 'File/MPEG Tools'
-goto the tab 'Simple Multiplex'
-Leave the 'Type' MPEG-1 System (automatic)'
-For the 'Video input' select the video you've encoded tot MPEG-1
(probably file with extension .m1v or .mpg)
-For the 'Audio input' select the .MP2 soundfile you've just made.
-Choose the ouput name for your finished movie and press 'Run'

That's it again!

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

If you're working with VirtualDub to make AVIs, you can also access the Audio menu and select "Conversion" (make sure you have "Full Stream Processing" enabled as opposed to "Direct Stream Copy"). From the Audio conversion menu, there is a subsection on the lower right hand side that allows you to convert to mono.

[rein]

OK, looking for some optimazation suggestions. I am currently using a Dell Axim 400mhz PPC and only have windows media player installed.

What I did:

I followed the faq at the site suggested by DsneFmly. It really helped me get started and I've ripped and converted an episode off of the simpsons dvd. Everything seems to play fine but the file size is 94 mb. Isn't that a little large for a 22 minute mpeg? I tried running it through windows movie maker to optimize it that way (as suggested) but I seem to not know what I am doing. When I import the mpeg into windows movie maker it will not let me save it. It actually has the save button dimmed out. I tried selecting scenes and even merging all of the scenes into one and still could not save it. Can anyone tell me what I might be doing wrong?

Specs on the ripping ect. I ripped the vob and converted them using 320x240 @ 450 bitrate, 29 fps and stereo sound, 96 kb/sec with a sampling frequency of 44100. I went back and did everything over using 25 fps and did mono sound and got absolutely no change in file size. Well, if I did get a change it was not significant.

So, here are my questions

1. Is that file size a little large for what I have done?
2. Can I optimize my mpeg to get it smaller and if so, how?
3. How much smaller are Divx movies compared to mpegs? (or wmv for that matter)
4. How much harder is it to convert to divx vs mpeg? I have to say it was actually easy to do this with the exception of optimizing it.
5. What optimizations seem to work better? Changing resolution to something smaller, changing bit rates, changing fps, or anything else that could be suggested?

Thanks for any help guys. I can't wait to get both dvd's of season 1 & 2 ripped. Of course, that could take me a few months. :)

[spursdude]

I tried selecting scenes and even merging all of the scenes into one and still could not save it. Can anyone tell me what I might be doing wrong?


Did you drag the scene onto the little film strip at the bottom of the window?

[rein]

Boy do I feel stupid now, hehe. :oops: That took it down to about 32 mb saved as an wmv file. Thanks for the help.

Do divx movies look a lot better than wmv or mpegs? reason I ask is it seems that each conversion made the movie darker and darker. It is still very visable but I noticed it was a bit darker. Thanks for any suggestions or help.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Each conversion?

I hope you're only doing one video conversion from the original VOB files. If you re-converting video multiple times, you will lose significant quality over the original.

The methods Buddha and I have been discussing is with DivX in which you use a DVD ripper to copy the VOB files to your hard disk and then it's really one video conversion to the final DivX .avi file (I haven't addressed the required audio steps).

[rein]

Ok, maybe conversion was the wrong word. I just didn't know what else to call it since I was ripping the dvd, then converting those over to avi and then I suppose compressing it to divx. Even still, I seem to be having better luck with mpegs. My divx files (following the faq at pocket matrix) are still much bigger than my mpegs and do not look that much better. However, they do sound a lot better. Not sure what I am doing wrong to make that happen since I have followed the faq. Also, it seems the divx process is taking me much longer than the mpeg. Here is a question though, if I compress the mpegs into divx files, would it yeild better results than optimizing them through windows movie maker? It seems like that would take care of my sound since that is when it is being converted over to mp3. Oh well, I will give it a shot later since I will not have much time today.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Here is a question though, if I compress the mpegs into divx files, would it yeild better results than optimizing them through windows movie maker? It seems like that would take care of my sound since that is when it is being converted over to mp3.
I don't know that I would recommend either option. I guess I haven't tried windows movie maker and I remember someone claiming better results using it.

I don't know what you consider big, but here's what I have for full DivX rip of the movie X-men:

Duration: 1hr 43min
Resolution: 256x108
Sound: MP3 44.1KHz, 96kbps, 16-bit, stereo
Framerate : 24 frames/sec
Size: 233MB
Playback: about 1 frame skipped per 5-10 minutes

If you can't get something comparable, then you're missing a step somewhere. If you're getting better results with MPG and Movie Maker, then maybe I need to switch.

[rein]

Ekkie,

Thanks for the help, seems this thread died because everyone is probably tired of answering "how do I make video" threads. I only say that because I saw a similar thread over in the Axim forum after I had posted in this one.

Any how, the step I had problems on involved using the program that makes the psuedo avi wrapper from the d2v file that allows VirualDub to read it. It seems they built this into DVD2AVI as a plugin since the faq was made at pocketmatrix and I was unable to get it to work exactly the way they described it. I was never able to get the avi wrapper file to read in VirtualDub. What I would end up with is a very large avi file even after compressing it using VirtualDub. (like close to 200mb for a 23 minute avi) What I was able to do that gave me increadible results was to just use TEMPGEnc to convert the d2v file to mpeg and then compress it into a divx file. The results I got were really good.


Duration: 24 minutes
Resolution: 240 x 176 (simpson episode not a movie)
Sound: MP3 44.1KHz, 96kbps, 16-bit, mono
Size: 39mb
Framerate: I left it at 29.??? but I think it automatically converted it to 24.

No noticeable frame skips at all and the sound is great through the mono speaker. Not great as in my home theater system but great as in the best sound I have heard out of my Axim so far. It seems I am getting very similar results minus the space I saved probably from using mono sound. I think I will continue to rip/burn the Simpson and Southpark episodes in mono and do movies in stereo. I don't use headphones with the Axim right now any how and I really don't feel I am loosing much by watching television shows in mono. I am not sure what I was doing wrong when I was trying to use the VFAPI plugin but at least I have found a solution that is acceptable. I ran the wmv file and then the divx file and I was amazed at how much more sound and video quality I got for the exact same amount of space. Once again, thanks for at least pointing me in the right directions.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I use a package called Gordian Knot to create an .avs file out of the .d2v file produced by DVD2AVI, which is basically the same in concept as the .avi wrapper described by Pocket Matrix. I then load the .avs file into VirtualDub along with the .wav audio file and then rip the final .avi. Why you're getting a file of that size out of a file wrapper is beyond me. I assume that you have the "VFAPI plug-in" option checked in DVD2AVI before creating your .d2v file.

What I was initially amazed at is how small your files were in relation to the resolution and playback time, then it occurred to me that animations are far less demanding on video compressions. That would also explain why you may not be seeing much difference between AVI and MPG visually on that clip.

[rein]

What I was initially amazed at is how small your files were in relation to the resolution and playback time, then it occurred to me that animations are far less demanding on video compressions. That would also explain why you may not be seeing much difference between AVI and MPG visually on that clip.

Yes, I had wondered about what kind of file size I would get doing movies vs animation. I am going to re-rip the 2 episodes I have done because I didn't adjust the sound volume in the process and it makes for some low volume. I didn't notice as much in my quiet house but when I was in the car I couldn't hear it very well not using headphones. I wll download the programs you are talking about and give those a shot. I did have the vfapi option checked but it wasn't giving me the wrapper file as far as I could tell. Each way I tried it I got either an empty file or a large avi which I am sure was no wrapper since it was 4x the size of the original file. Oh well, at least I am getting to a point that I have noticed tweaks that are helping and such. Once again, thanks for the help.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

No problem. My methods are probably a combination of the Pocket Matrix and the doom9.org methods (www.doom9.org is where you'll find Gordian Knot) so don't feel discouraged if the doom9.org methods are giving you less-than-ideal results. If you decide to give Gordian Knot a shot, feel free to shoot me an personal message and I'll let you know what steps I execute.

[Buddha]

wow I've been gone for 2 days and look how this thread had grown again! :D

Although ekkie has answered already most of your questions I'd like to add a couple of things:

Changing the framerate of your simpsons episode from 30fps to 25fps is useless in this case as simpsons are not recorded at Movieframerate (24fps). Actuallty if I am not mistaken The Simpsons are made up of 15 drawings per second (so 15fps) which are later duplicated to get the 30fps. So if you want to bring down the framerate you should lower it to 15fps as this would be the original framerate of this cartoon and you should see no difference in fluidity since this show is in reality only made up of those fifteen drawings per second.


As for the .d2v / VFAPI problems:

A .d2v file is actually not a readable wrapper (dummy file). except for programs that have a reader for that format integrated (only TMPEG has this) for other programs you need to convert the .d2v format to something else. what VFAPI does is convert the .d2v to a dummy .avi file.

(don't forget that you must choose 'Save Project' in DVD2AVI not 'Save AVI' otherwise you'll naturally get HUGE files outputed. and also enable the VFAPI plug-in found under 'Help/VFAPI Plug-in')

start VFAPI
-click 'Add Job'
-select the .d2v file you've made with DVD2AVI
-in the little window that pops up don't change anything, just press ok.
-then back in the main windows press 'Convert'
-after a couple of second weird characters should be appearing behing the filename in the top-right corner somewhere.
-press exit

Now VFAPI has made a dummy .avi file for us (called [yourname]_d2v-vfapi.avi that VirtualDub can open.

So when you open it in VirtualDub that is the file you will have to open, not the .D2V file.



When using the Gordian Knot you do the same thing: you make an .AVS file which is a dummy avi file aswell, except that it doesn't have the extension .avi but .avs instead. Both methods yield the same image quality so which one you choose to use is up to you.

[Buddha]

As for Sound:

I often go MONO myself aswell since the size reduction of the audio is 50%. Now if you decide to use mono you can drop the bitrate from 96kbps to 64kbps and the sound will have the same quality as stereo 128kbps MP3 since a stereo 128kbps MP3 is actually build up from two 64kbps channels (one for left and one for right) so when using mono sound (1 channel) at 64kbps it's the same and you optimise the size again since you save a couple of MB's.

[Buddha]

Now a little word about what you found out about cartoons beeing smaller and stuff:


This is true and the reason why is simple: cartoon are made up of large even colored surfaces which are much easier to compress than video/film since those are never even when you film something there are always differences everywhere even if you film a flat peace of painted cardboard, you'll still get stuff like texture and difference in lighting and stuff like that and this compresses not as good as really flat even color surfaces. So cartoons have better quality at lower bitrates than movies.

This all is due to the way MPEG4 (DivX works). A lot of stuff is optimised in MPEG4 to identify 'shapes' which a far more easier to detect in cartoons since all is flat colored and as a result there are far LESS shapes that make up a cartoon than for a videofilm which has image that is uneven and 'fuzzy'.

[Buddha]

, if I compress the mpegs into divx files, would it yeild better results than optimizing them through windows movie maker? It seems like that would take care of my sound since that is when it is being converted over to mp3.


-Probably divx will do a better job converting it, yes.
-The reason the sound is better is probably due to the crappy MS sound converter :twisted:

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

This is true and the reason why is simple: cartoon are made up of large even colored surfaces which are much easier to compress than video/film since those are never even when you film something there are always differences everywhere even if you film a flat peace of painted cardboard, you'll still get stuff like texture and difference in lighting and stuff like that and this compresses not as good as really flat even color surfaces. So cartoons have better quality at lower bitrates than movies.
Yup, same principle with compressed image formats (jpg, gif, png, etc.). More complex images are much harder to compress than simplistic images with the large evenly colored surfaces, resulting in larger file sizes even if the resolutions are identical and the compression "quality" is configured the same.

I just ripped a Japanese Anime film and was easily able to increase resolution size (compared to what I normally use with regular movies) without noticing any drop in visual quality.

Great tip on the Simpson's framerate BTW. That never occurred to me, but I bet that's likely true for some of the anime flicks I have.

[rein]

Hey guys, thanks for all of the help. I was able to finally figure out my problem with the vfapi plug-in. Actually not sure what it was but I downloaded a different version and that seemed to clear it up. Thing is, I think I am still going to stick with running it to an mpeg using TMPGEnc for a couple of reasons.

Reason 1, I am still getting smaller file sizes using this method with the exact same settings and I am not noticing quality loss. Granted this could be an animation vs film thing and quality loss could probably show when I do a movie but for now I'm sticking with it. On a 23:13 minute movie I got a difference of .5 mb. While it is not a lot I will take it.

Reason 2, I spend the largest amount of time doing it this way when converting the d2v file over to the mpeg. This gives me a much quicker times when using VirtualDub to make final adjustments and compress the file into divx format. I can go back and make any changes or adjustments when experimenting and it takes no time and all (compared to using the pseudo avi file) even using 2 pass mode.

Maybe once I am at a point I do not need to experiment, or when I do film vs animation, I will go the other route. However, right now I am still experimenting a lot. Hehe, I have ripped/converted the same two episodes around 8 times now. I've noticed that each one needs it's own tweaking as well. What are some good sound settings? If I adjust the volume too much (400%) when converting I get noise. I am thinking a lot of it has to do with the built in speaker of the Dell. Last time I did it at 200% and that seems to be a good setting. It is still a little soft unless I use headphones. I take it that it may be common problem for movies to not play so loud in the ppc. On the pc it is excellent but on the ppc it is a bit low. Oh well, that is why they include the headphone jack I suppose.

Any how, thanks for all of the help and tips. I will probably spend the next week (or two) ripping my Simpson season 1&2 and South Park season 1 dvd's. These make great little movies to load on the Axim because at the moment I only have a 256 mb sd card. I can fit 5-6 on there including the games I already have installed.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Reason 2, I spend the largest amount of time doing it this way when converting the d2v file over to the mpeg. This gives me a much quicker times when using VirtualDub to make final adjustments and compress the file into divx format. I can go back and make any changes or adjustments when experimenting and it takes no time and all (compared to using the pseudo avi file) even using 2 pass mode.
Hey, almost everyone doing these types of conversions come up with slightly different methods that work best for them. It's all about experimentation in figuring what's best for you.

Quick tip. If reason 1 ever fails you when you switch over to regular movies and you decide to switch back to the pseudo AVI method, you may want to consider converting a small portion of the video first to ensure your settings are satisfactory... this avoids the long wait times ripping straight from VOB files to AVI... which is indeed longer than ripping from MPG.

What are some good sound settings? If I adjust the volume too much (400%) when converting I get noise. I am thinking a lot of it has to do with the built in speaker of the Dell. Last time I did it at 200% and that seems to be a good setting.
Wow. You tried 400% eh? I'm not surprised that resulted in noise. I normally only go to about 130-140%, but both Buddha and I have the iPaq38xx, which for all it's quirkiness, has some of the best supported sound capabilities (both external and internal) in the business.

Have fun. :D

[Buddha]

...I bet that's likely true for some of the anime flicks I have.
Yes indeed, most anime series are drawn at a framerate of 10 to 15fps, but there are exceptions aswell for some anime movies, for example, the movie AKIRA was drawn at 20 frames per second. So usually the best 'rule-of-thumb' when you're not 100% sure (to keep things simple) is to take half the framerate (decimate by 2). There are ways to do everything 'pin-point-perfect' but those involve a lot more work.

Another way for anime MOVIES is to bring the 30fps movie down to 24fps (in dvd2avi) using IVTC (forcedFILM), which is probably closer to the framerate at which the original movie was RECORDED (not drawn) in japan and then in Virtualdub use decimate by 2. this method should bring you pretty close but as usual its a process of trial and error.

you may want to consider converting a small portion of the video first to ensure your settings are satisfactory... this avoids the long wait times ripping straight from VOB files to AVI... which is indeed longer than ripping from MPG.
I have to agree, that would be a quicker way since making a whole MPG still takes up more time and it's easier to copy a small file back and forth between your Desktop and PPC for quick 'judgement on the PPC.

Welcome rein, to hours of fun any place, any time! :rainbow1:

[juni]

Since I use the windows media encoder to make the movie for my pocketpc I use the "save avi" feature of DVD2AVI. A quick question: When you do that it asks for compression method and codec. Is DivX6 better than Microsoft mpeg-4 v2? Anyone tested both of them?

Also, the audio options in DVD2AVI are a bit confusing :D

(and an observation: In order to be able to copy some movies with Smartripper I first have to open the movie in PowerDVD. I usually start playing the movie, hit pause and then open Smartripper).