Intel Aims For Longer-Running Handhelds [Archive]

Jason Dunn

01-29-2003, 06:06 PM

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://news.com.com/2100-1040-982543.html?tag=fd_top' target='_blank'>http://news.com.com/2100-1040-98254...html?tag=fd_top</a><br /><br /></div>"The chipmaker has developed a new XScale PXA processor, which is meant to improve the battery life of devices while doubling--from 100MHz to 200MHz--the speed at which the processor can communicate with other components within the device, such as memory. The XScale PXA255 is the successor to the current PXA250 and will come with the same clock speeds: 200MHz, 300MHz and 400MHz. The chipmaker has already sent samples to its customers, and the chip is expected to ship in high volume at the end of the quarter. Details of the chip cropped up late Tuesday on handheld enthusiast site Pocket PC Thoughts."<br /><br />Would you look at that! C|Net journalist Richard Shim mentioned our little site. Pretty cool - hi Richard! :D The story was also <a href="http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-982543.html">syndicated onto ZDNet.</a>

Janak Parekh

01-29-2003, 06:17 PM

Congrats Jason! :werenotworthy:

--janak

Fzara

01-29-2003, 06:33 PM

Yah! A link to PPCT on CNET!

It seems like our little site is getting more popular by the hour now;)

As for the chip, I think it would be noted that the 100mhz-200mhz difference is actually the bus speed, and would actually help the Xscale outperform the Strongarm processor. Its just sad they had to come out with this after the Axim was released :evil:

beezer23

01-29-2003, 06:37 PM

Well, it looks like Intel woke up and realized the bottlenecks of the PXA250... Glad to see the increase in bus speed!! :D

Yes, it looks like I made the jump from Palm to PPC a little too soon, but I can guarantee that I don't feel as bad as the poor joes who spent $500 - $700 on an xscale IPAQ! :oops:

I'll be looking to upgrade my Axim X5 Advanced ($250 after all the discounts/rebates) in about 6 months!

dartman

01-29-2003, 06:38 PM

Congrats Jason. All that hard work paying off!

I suppose any new Axims will probably not be out until the Q2 Xscale pipeline fills up.

Maybe the same for other manufacturers.

dart

madmaxmedia

01-29-2003, 06:41 PM

If it turns out that this really boosts performance, I wonder if there will be any upgrade options for existing owners. I would imagine that 3rd party shops could do this (Brighthand has some more info on the tech details.)

Also I wonder if the new processor will just be dropped into existing models. This would seem to make the iPaq 1910 a really good deal if it were updated with the new chip... (especially compared to the Palm Tungsten).

Too bad I still have some irreplaceable Palm apps on my CLIE (actually, just Shadow Outliner)

questionlp

01-29-2003, 06:51 PM

Not really syndicated since CNet now owns ZDNet (which used to be a division of Ziff-Davis). Still, it's nice to see progress in finding ways to reduce power consumption and improve battery life. Now if only a certain company would produce PXA25x-optimized applications and OS for the current gen handhelds :)

01-29-2003, 06:59 PM

Wow! I didn't expect that this story would making such waves. :)

I have submitted the story about the new XScale to PocketPCThoughts and not somewhere else because I like the site here. :)

kaiden.1

01-29-2003, 07:12 PM

Right on! If you own a PocketPC and your not a member of this site; something is wrong......

This is THE POCKETPC SITE period. Everyone else is missing out. :D

vincentsiaw

01-29-2003, 07:24 PM

i really curious wheter this bus speed increase, will increase the performance of the xscale, so far i was disapointed with Xscale performance, feels no difference at all compare to the old strongARM chip, even sometimes worse!

PJE

01-29-2003, 07:37 PM

Hi,

This upgrade was probably highlighted by the performance of the current XScale in their Media2Go prototypes. The 100MHz bus is simply not good enough for software decoding of the video stream on the CPU with the larger display resolution (I assume better than 320x240 display is being used).

Thoughts...

PJE

madmaxmedia

01-29-2003, 07:50 PM

Wow! I didn't expect that this story would making such waves. :)

I have submitted the story about the new XScale to PocketPCThoughts and not somewhere else because I like the site here. :)

I'm suprised it's not making MORE waves! ;)

(considering all the debate about XScale performance, and MS or Intel screwed this or that up)

Fattizzi

01-29-2003, 07:58 PM

Is anyone else pissed off at this new announcement. The loyal PPC owners drop 500-700 bucks on a new "X-scale" device and it find out there isnt much of a difference between the newer processor and the older ARM-based processor. NOW, they plan on releasing an improved version. They should of done their homework first and brought us a superior product. And how about the OS? How much of the new x-scale will really benefit from an outdated OS? So to sum it up, the consumer, has to spend 700 dollars for an X-Scale device, troubleshoot and "test" the product out for Intel, spend more money on an upgrade, then spend even more on the OS upgrade. This is smells just like the MMX fiasco of years ago.

Feels good to vent!

R K

01-29-2003, 08:11 PM

Couldn't we do some real-world tests on this already by using the overclocking apps that are already out there?
Many of these apps have a choice between 300MHz Run-Mode and 300MHz Turbo. I think Run-Mode overclocks the bus to 150MHz.
Now of course we have to factor in the fact that this is a jump from 100MHz to 150MHz and not 100MHz to 200MHz, but someone (maybe I'll try too) should go see how much of a difference 300MHz Turbo vs 300MHz Run-Mode makes.

jizmo

01-29-2003, 08:17 PM

Glad to see that this XScale nightmare is about to end.

I really think that the fact that we've gone backwards in terms of speed, instead the usual trend of speed increases has hurt the PPC market. I don't know how much, but I'm pretty sure that it hasn't done any good to the markets either.

Our little gaming company decided to hold back the title we programmed because of the poor performance on XScale devices. It ran flawlessly on ARM, but became unplayable with this new generation of processors.

Some of my friends have bought a PocketPC after they've seen just how convenient it is, but I've had to recommend cheaper second-hand ARM device over the brand new XScale. In fact, I myself changed my XScale device to second hand ARM PPC, and I've enjoyed the speed I've regained, as funny as that may sound.

The new XScale might just do the trick and boost up the market. I'd rush out to get one myself, for sure; and I'm generally really, really lazy to upgrade.

With the current overclocking utilities, who knows what kind of horrible powers can be unleashed from this chip.

/jizmo

GO-TRIBE

01-29-2003, 08:31 PM

And how about the OS? How much of the new x-scale will really benefit from an outdated OS?
But I don't beleive the OS was ever the problem. The OS is compiled for the ARM 4 standard, and can run on any ARM 4 chip. I sure hope the new XScale runs the standard ARM 4 instructions faster as well as clearing up the bus bottleneck. Then we'll clearly see that the OS was never the issue.

Jonathon Watkins

01-29-2003, 08:31 PM

About time Intel. :roll: Well Jason - it's always nice to be name-checked. Are you ready to be Slashdotted though? 8O

(poor little server! :wink:)

QYV

01-29-2003, 08:46 PM

So here's a question for everyone:

I currently have an Axim 400MHz on order with Dell (have since the 15th :roll: ). I got it for $260 total, which is a great price IMHO for the specs. If you were in my shoes, and price was extremely important to you, would you cancel your order?

The things I'm considering are: whether or not devices with the new chip will be out soon (I'm PPC-less at the moment), whether or not they'll be as cost-effective as the current Xscales (i.e. is Dell dumping the Axims at such a low price because they knew the upgraded chip was coming?), and whether or not the performance gain is worth it (I use NES and MAME emulators but wouldn't ever watch videos, for example).

What would you do?

peterawest

01-29-2003, 08:53 PM

If you were in my shoes, and price was extremely important to you, would you cancel your order?
No. You need something that you can use right now, so why go without a Pocket PC for months, just waiting to see if something better comes along.

lithium

01-29-2003, 09:12 PM

I suspect the release of the XScale PXA255 will coincide with the next update to Microsoft's Windows CE .Net OS...

sponge

01-29-2003, 10:10 PM

Is anyone else pissed off at this new announcement. The loyal PPC owners drop 500-700 bucks on a new "X-scale" device and it find out there isnt much of a difference between the newer processor and the older ARM-based processor.

A lot of people who are willing to spend $500-$700 on these things are probably in the scene, and will thus know about the slowdowns. Even people new to the scene are always asking "What should I get, XScale or ARM"

But I'm just nitpicking, I do agree with your general idea.

st63z

01-29-2003, 10:16 PM

jizmo

01-29-2003, 10:34 PM

It's going to be an interesting race .. 8)

Who will be the first one to release the updated, worlds fastest PDA?

I'm kind of guessing it could be Dell as they are generally very fast in they moves, but who knows how long HP has known that there is a new processor version coming up?

Anyway the first one will get the customers. There are so many power users that long for faster speeds that it'll be a sure hit.

/jizmo

Gen-M

01-29-2003, 10:46 PM

MarcTGFG

01-29-2003, 11:18 PM

No, I strongly believe that it will be Casios turn. MS has to make something good cause they forced Casio to scrap their MIPS processor in their last generation edvices in favor of StrongARM while Casio had already developed an E-200 with MIPS and had to redo almost everything.

Casio also hinted to me at the PPC 2002 announcement in SFO that there would be a second device, targeted more at the entertainment driven consumer, that will incoporate the old HAST-LCD they used in the E-1xx series and had so many devoted fans.

My bet: Something like an E-3000 with HAST-screen, some additional multimedia add on and the new XScale. All that in Q2. Not unreasonable, is it?

Bob Anderson

01-30-2003, 01:41 AM

I suspect the release of the XScale PXA255 will coincide with the next update to Microsoft's Windows CE .Net OS...

You said it... I guess waiting for these next-gen iPAQs (3900 and 5400) in Q2 would be worth it...

Yep... I think there are a lot of things underfoot right now ... this leak about the new and improved processor is just the tip of the iceberg. When things quiet down on the rumor front, it can only mean one thing: change is on it's way!

I was going to buy a iPaq 5450, but that is now on hold for a while! I want the increased performance that's being mentioned...

NOTE: I just noticed on google, if you type in "Pocket PC" this site has overtaken Pocket PC Passion!!! Jason -- does that mean we'll see you on Tech TV? :olympic: (I see a new star emerging!!)

Jonathan1

01-30-2003, 03:00 AM

Is anyone else pissed off at this new announcement. The loyal PPC owners drop 500-700 bucks on a new "X-scale" device and it find out there isnt much of a difference between the newer processor and the older ARM-based processor.
Feels good to vent!

Not really because anyone who did their homework on these devices knew of this problem which gave you the choice of going with new X-Scale device or an older StongARM device. I look at it the same as what you would do when you buy a new car. Don't most do some research on their purchase prior to buying a new car? Don't people read reviews, talk to owners?
I didn’t upgrade from my Jornada 568 because I knew of these defects. People who have been wanting to buy new PPC’s; I’ve recommended getting slightly older devices that don’t suffer from this speed issue. There are 4 people to blame when it comes to the speed issue on the new PPC’s. Intel, Microsoft, OEMs, and consumers that don’t do their homework.

Jonathon Watkins

01-30-2003, 03:20 AM

I suspect the release of the XScale PXA255 will coincide with the next update to Microsoft's Windows CE .Net OS...

Here we go again. Just as I was about to get an Axim in the UK we get the whole 'next generation' thing going again.... and again.... and again.

Still - progress, you can't beat it. :D Even if it means you will never be happy with the device you already have. :?

rein

01-30-2003, 05:55 AM

Well, I am a complete noob when it comes to pocket pc's. Bought the first one as a gift and ordered a second for myself, both are the Axim 400. I don't by the claims that if new users had "done their homework" they would have been better off. When I did order the first one I came here and got as much advice as I could. Seems like the Axim was stealing the show around that time. I was not told one time to by an older ppc because of slowdown. Either way, I am content with what I purchased. At $300 (only $234 for the second) I will get my monies worth before the new Xscales come out. Now, if I had spent $600-$700 each I would probably feel a bit different.

Janak Parekh

01-30-2003, 05:57 AM

Here we go again. Just as I was about to get an Axim in the UK we get the whole 'next generation' thing going again.... and again.... and again.
Tell me about it. I keep on telling myself that my 3870 is good enough until the "next generation", and I've held off buying a 5450, but it's just not fun. :x

--janak

Jason Dunn

01-30-2003, 04:06 PM

NOTE: I just noticed on google, if you type in "Pocket PC" this site has overtaken Pocket PC Passion!!! Jason -- does that mean we'll see you on Tech TV? :olympic: (I see a new star emerging!!)

Yeah, we actually overtook Pocket PC Passion about 6-8 months ago. It was a thrill to climb the charts...DOH! Microsoft is beating us again! :shocked!: For a month or so there Pocket PC Magazine was #1 and we were #2....how did MS get back up there? I smell a conspiracy! :lol:

Jonathon Watkins

02-24-2003, 03:55 AM

For a month or so there Pocket PC Magazine was #1 and we were #2....how did MS get back up there? I smell a conspiracy! :lol:

MS is ranked higher than this site???? 8O No way! :lol:

Right - lets do some deep linking to get this site back up there at nr 1 where it belongs! 8)