2002 Market Share Numbers Start to Trickle Out

[Ed Hansberry]

There are a number of market share reports coming out. <a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=620&e=4&cid=620&u=/nf/20030127/bs_nf/20579">Yahoo is reporting</a> that global PDA shipments are down 9% over all in 2002 compared to 2001, and it is across the board. Enterprise shipments are there with 30% of the market but this is not yet up to the levels expected by 2002. The slump in the tech sector is hurting all technology spending and PDAs are being pulled down with everything else. Consumers makeup the other 70%.<br /><br />Globally, Palm is still #1 in shipments with 4.4 million units shipped, 12.2% below their 5.1M in 2001. HP is #2 with 1.6M units, 27.2% below the 2.2M shipped in 2001. HP's numbers for both 2001 and 2002 represent a combined HP/Compaq. Sony is #3 with 1.3M shipments. Palm's market share was maintained by the Zire, a $99 Palm OS 4 device that made up one third of Palm's shipments since its release in October of 2002.<br /><br />The Pocket PC overall though is gaining ground, thanks to smaller players like Toshiba, which has jumped to #5 world wide. PalmOS has 55% of the market and Pocket PC has 26% globally. Think about that. For every two Palm's sold, one Pocket PC is sold. :) We are getting there folks! Note too that none of these numbers are materially affected by Dell, which didn't get into the PDA market with the Axim until late November and were (and still are) plagued with backorders. They sold 51,000 Axims in December. Lets see what they do when they get the X5 ramped up to meet demand and when they round out their product line with the rumored X3 and X7.<!><br /><br />I hope that 2002 proves to be a valuable lesson to HP. Riding high in 2001 on the success of the iPAQ, they released a slightly updated 3800 that included an integrated SD slot. The model did well for the first few quarters. HP then released an even less slightly updated 3900 at what many considered to be an insanely high priced $599-$759, depending on the features. It wasn't until December that you could get the radically different 1910 and a more reasonably priced 5400 that cost less than the high end 3900 and added WiFi and biometrics.<br /><br />Here is hoping to a better PDA market overall in 2003. Todd Kort, a Gartner analyst, is projecting a 10-15% growth in the PDA market in 2003.<br /><br />There is more info in a <a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1040-982286.html?tag=fd_top">News.com</a>. <a href="http://www.canalys.com/pr/r2003012.htm">Canalys</a> also released some information specific to the European market. Thanks to all the little people that sent these links in. ;) Too many to name. Keep those links coming!

[kaiden.1]

Wow; I think that some of these figures are too optimistic! I have no problem hoping that the market keeps moving; but I realistically think that this will be a year where things will kind of keep level for sales. I am a business owner and myself and a lot of my associates have seen a definate down trend in consumer spending. It's not that consumers aren't spending, it's a matter of where they are spending their money, and I don't see it going to high tech toys. Joe Public is making due with that he has in that area and spending his dollars on other items. If the market does go up however; I would think that it would happen late in the year. There are a lot of potential political events going on right now that are pressing the minds of the people.

Of course we are hoping for the best! :wink:

[MLO]

The Pocket PC overall though is gaining ground, thanks to smaller players like Toshiba, which has jumped to #5 world wide.

I'm not surprised by this. Their Pocket PC form factor is similar in size, thickness and weight to the Palm series. I know that it was one of the top reasons why I chose Toshiba when I was switching from Palm to Pocket PC.

MLO

[Charles Pickrell]

HP is #2 with $1.6M units, 27.2% below the 2.2M shipped in 2001.

Ed,

Did you mean to say 1.6 million dollars or 1.6 million units?

[cdunphy]

This should spark some debate.

It's actually been a good year for Palm OS:


Palm Powered Share Increases in Second Half of 2002

Palm Powered mobile computing devices continue to lead in U.S. retail, enterprise, and smartphones, and are gaining share in the European market,
according to industry analysts

SUNNYVALE, Calif., January 27, 2002 -- PalmSource, Inc. today announced that Palm Powered handhelds and smartphones strengthened their position in the retail market during the second half of 2002, according to sales figures just released in the United States and Europe. In European retail sales, Palm Powered handhelds – those that use the Palm operating system - had strong share gains from a year ago, while in the U.S., Palm Powered handhelds maintained share despite increased competition. Palm Powered handhelds also gained share among enterprise resellers, and manufacturers of Palm Powered smartphones were three of the top six smartphone companies worldwide. PalmSource is the provider of the world’s most popular operating system for handhelds and smart phones, and the Palm OS subsidiary of Palm, Inc.

Gaining Share in Europe

According to the October-November 2002 sales report from GfK Marketing Services, retail share in Europe of Palm Powered systems rose as PalmSource’s licensees released new products and shipped Palm OS 5, the newest version of the Palm operating system. In Germany, Palm Powered share in October-November increased eight points from a year ago, from 50 percent to 58 percent. In France, Palm Powered share increased 12 points, from 52 percent to 64 percent. In the United Kingdom, Palm Powered share increased by eight points, from 42 percent to 50 percent.


U.S. Retail Share Strong and Stable

During the 2002 holiday season, Palm Powered products faced stiffer competition than ever before as licensees of rival operating systems introduced lower-priced handheld devices and increased their promotional spending. Despite the increased competition, Palm Powered handhelds maintained their historically strong share position in the United States. According to weekly retail sales figures compiled by NPD Intelect in December 2002, Palm Powered devices maintained around 80 percent share, roughly the same share range they held during the December 2001 holiday period.

Leading Share in U.S. Enterprise Resellers

Palm Powered share is also strong among U.S. commercial resellers, companies that sell handhelds direct to corporations, according to NPD Intelect. During the third quarter of 2002, the most recent information available, Palm Powered handhelds had 72.9 percent share, up from 56.7 percent in the same quarter the year before.

Leader in U.S. Smart Phones

According to International Data Corporation’s tracking of converged mobile devices – smart phones that combine handheld and mobile phone capabilities - Palm Powered smart phones had 89 percent share in the US during the third quarter of 2002, the most recent data available. Worldwide, three of the top six smart phone vendors were Palm Powered – Handspring, Kyocera, and Samsung.

“Users continue to prefer Palm Powered products for value, usability, reliability and the enormous range of third party applications, content and accessories that are available,” said David Nagel, president and CEO of PalmSource. “This sales data, and the fact that over 25 million Palm Powered devices have now been sold, underlines the ever-increasing popularity of the Palm operating system.

The second-half, 2002 share gains were driven by innovative new mobile computing products from licensees such as:
• Alphasmart, with its Dana, a durable and low-priced laptop computer replacement for students;
• Handspring, with the Treo 300, the first Palm Powered communicator to include a bright color screen with a full thumb keyboard;
• Kyocera, with its tiny-but-powerful 5135 Palm Powered flip-phone;
• Palm, Inc.’s hardware division, with its sophisticated new Tungsten T and Tungsten W business products and low-cost Zire for entry-level handheld users;
• Samsung, with its sleek i330 smart phone that combines Web browsing, handheld, and phone functions; and
• Sony, with its Clie NX 70v, which includes a thumb keyboard and video camera.

Additional new Palm Powered products that will ship in the first half of 2003 include Fossil's Wrist PDA with Palm OS, Garmin's iQue 3600 GPS-enabled handheld, the Legend Pam168 Chinese-language handheld, and the Sony Clie NZ90 with a two megapixel camera and the highest resolution, feature-rich multimedia capabilities ever in a handheld. Other new devices are in development by Group Sense Limited and HuneTec. The new products, along with the existing lineup of award-winning devices from Acer, HandEra and Symbol, greatly increase the selection of features available to Palm Powered customers. Combined with more than 16,000 Palm OS software programs, the largest selection of software for any handheld, these devices take Palm OS far beyond its roots as a personal information management tool, helping to make people more in touch, productive and organized in their business and personal lives.

About PalmSource
PalmSource is the company behind Palm OS, the world’s most popular operating system for handhelds and smart phones. Licensed by industry leaders -- including Acer, AlphaSmart, ARM, ATI, Fossil, Garmin, GSL, Handera, Handspring, HuneTec, Intel, Kyocera, Legend, MediaQ, Motorola, Palm, Samsung, Sony, Symbol, Texas Instruments --Palm OS has been shipped on more than 25 million handhelds and smart phones, and given rise to a huge community of users, enterprises, developers and manufacturers, who together make up the Palm Economy. PalmSource’s new headquarters are located at 1240 Crossman Ave. in Sunnyvale, Calif. PalmSource is a subsidiary of Palm, Inc. (PALM). More information about PalmSource, Inc., is available at www.palmsource.com. Information about Palm, Inc. is available at www.palm.com/aboutpalm.


# # #

PalmSource and Palm OS are registered trademarks and Palm Powered is a trademark of PalmSource, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Palm, Inc.

[dbman]

Ah, let's examine the facts here. Palm was down 12.2% and HP was down 27%. Therefore, PocketPC is winning! Yippee! As an Axim owner, I am becoming concerned that the PocketPC calculator must be inaccurate!

Looking at data from one year is not going to prove anything statistically. All past sales, the number or units still working and being actively used by someone, and the number of units sitting on retail shelves, need to be considered to get any measure of real trends. Even then, unless you have enough data to be meaningful, any conclusions are still statistically shaky.

Looking at the decreases in the combined HP and Compaq, the undisputed leaders in PocketPC, one could conclude that the PocketPC is doomed or that HP will drop out of the PDA market. However, these conclusions are as suspect as any statement made here since nothing is mentioned of HP's competitors, PDA-enabled phones, phone-enabled PDAs, or which OSs these run on. Statistical analysis is a tool, but it can be grossly misused by people trying desperately to prove their point. Whenever someone uses statistics in an arguement, run away!

By the way, my thing is bigger than yours by 50% and that quarter inch is what really matters :D

OK, my turn on the soap box is finished.

[Timothy Rapson]

This is just what I was expecting to hear, PalmOS showing solid market share leadership continuing.

All Fall, the new stuff that became available in quantity was Palm OS NX70, Zire, and Tungsten. What new PPC product shipped in quantity in the crucial Christmas season? Really none. There were a few HP1910s ViewSonics, and Axims, but there were also probably a LOT of people sitting on the sidelines waiting to get one of those and, as a consequence, not buying Ipaqs and Toshibas.

I know none of you will believe this, but I told someone this week to get a PPC. An Axim. I just could not tell him to go get a Palm OS model for $100-300 more. I would have loved to have been able to point him to an Axim with Palm OS, but there is nothing in the Palm OS world even close to the Axim in power per dollar for general PDA use. He wanted to do engineering drawing, Japanese Kanzi text entry (is that the right word? BTW, does anyone here know how to do this on a US PPC?), music, & games. What in the Palm world would compare? A Zire? the latest Sony at $800? The newest Sony SJ30 needed to have virtual grafitti, an ARM processor, dual memory slots (one real compact flash), and 32 meg of RAM if they want to keep Dell from owning the whole PDA world. As it is, the latest Palm OS models are just not competitive anywhere, except screen resolution and the models with built-in cameras.

I still think the Palm OS (4.1) is more reliable, stable, satisfying, than PPC, but even supposing I am right about this, most people would rather have the extra power, memory, features, AND $100 to $200 cash still in their pockets when they leave the store with (AMAZINGLY) the cheaper PPC models.

[Ed Hansberry]

HP is #2 with $1.6M units, 27.2% below the 2.2M shipped in 2001.

Ed,

Did you mean to say 1.6 million dollars or 1.6 million units?
Yes! ;)

Fixing it now. 1.6M units. There were no dollars in any report. :oops:

[entropy1980]

Where's Foo? Thought for sure he'd be weighing in by now.... :D

[Ed Hansberry]

This should spark some debate.
It should be noted that Chris Dunphy is a PalmSource employee that reports to Michael Mace, the CCO.

A link will do next time Chris. :wink:

[Ed Hansberry]

Ah, let's examine the facts here. Palm was down 12.2% and HP was down 27%. Therefore, PocketPC is winning! Yippee! As an Axim owner, I am becoming concerned that the PocketPC calculator must be inaccurate!.
To be fair, where did I say Pocket PC was winning? I gently slammed HP for resting on their laurals for most of 2002 and gave clear facts. I do think the 26% world wide market share for Pocket PC is about as high as it has ever been, but I never even claimed that came from PalmOS. I don't know how much, if any, came from Palm and how much came from "other."

[Foo Fighter]

*shrug* No surprises here. I kept saying PPC vendors missed the critical holiday shopping season by releasing new low-cost models TOO LATE. Dell didn't start shipping until early December. If these new "cheap" PPCs are to have any impact at all on the market, it likely won't be evident until early Q2. Spring should give us a clearer picture. My prediction is that we'll see PPC with around 25% marketshare (US), and 35% worldwide by the end of the year. If that doesn't happen, it means consumers have rejected PPC, and will not buy them no matter what the price....at which point I will say.."Pocket PC is DOOOOOOOMED!" :wink:

As for Palm in particular, well...it's not exactly all good news for them either. Zire made up over 1/3 of sales, which means the average selling price was drug down into the gutter, along with profit margins. Unless Palm starts growing again by leaps and bounds, I think their earnings for Q1 are going to look like a dead squirrel on the German Autobahn.

Going forward, Sony could the real threat for PPC. They already come dangerously close to rivaling HP, and given their amazing talent for designing truly cool gadgets, they could steal the show right out from under Dell and other PPC vendors. And I suspect that OS6 might surprise a lot of naysayers. Microsoft had better have something really worthwhile in the works, or PalmSource will be on center stage. "L'audace, l'audace. Toujours l'audace!"

One thing that continues to hurt all vendors is the economy. PDA sales are in retraction, and that will continue to stunt growth across the board. Not a good time to be in this business. :?

[entropy1980]

And I suspect that OS6 might surprise a lot of naysayers.
Assuming it comes out on time ( and you know what happens when we ass-u-me) :D , anyway, Took a heck of long time for OS5 I am not holding my breath for 6.....

[Foo Fighter]

Took a heck of long time for OS5

Not really. PalmSource released the OS ahead of schedule. OS5 went gold back in April/May 2002. But the first devices based on it didn't come out until November. It was the licensees (including Palm) that took forever to get new products out.

[entropy1980]

No I am talking from 1996 or so from when first version of Palm OS came out it remained virtually unchanged for like 5 years! That is a long time! Comparitively Since then MS had released on the desktop.... 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, and XP..... yet Palm took same time to get what? Color, high res, and ARM processors? Also when did Palm start development on OS 5 anyway?

[Foo Fighter]

No I am talking from 1996 or so from when first version of Palm OS came out it remained virtually unchanged for like 5 years! That is a long time! Comparitively Since then MS had released on the desktop.... 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, and XP..... yet Palm took same time to get what? Color, high res, and ARM processors? Also when did Palm start development on OS 5 anyway?

Well, that really is a whole other discussion. Management (or lack thereof) was the primary reason why the "next generation" PalmOS was so long in coming. Ownership by 3Com held back innovation a couple years, followed by a revolving door of CEOs, and two years of rudderless leadership by my all-time favorite executive Carl Yankowski. This is why OS5/6 was sooooooooo late in coming. Thankfully that is has changed. Palm SG and Palmsource have a good management team right now, and a group of talented BeOS engineers. They are certainly in a much better place now than they were 5 years ago.

[entropy1980]

What will 6 offer that is so different form 5? Why the jump from 5 to 6 so fast if 5 is so great why roll out 6 and be supporting essentially 3 different OSes (4.x,5.x, and 6.x)? If you are talking mid to end 2003 that means people will have had less than a year with OS5...?

[Bosco]

As the numbers are, Palm OS's marketshare increased in 2002. From my perspective, it's amazing that Palm OS didn't go down in sales due to cheap PPC's on the other side of the line. Palm OS 5 is expensive. No doubt about it.

Foo, I agree that the cheap Dell PPC's came too late to have a huge impact, but I think they haven't been as successful as they should have been. If Dell would have gone retail with their Axim Basic, sales would have gone through the roof. Most people who are looking for a cheap "Palm Pilot" won't be looking around online for something they can't even try out and see if they like. Usually, they'll go to the store and test it out before buying it. Where's the PPC's that are below the $299 mark? It's Palm OS from then on. Dell needs to wise up if they want to sustain any type of marketshare. Oh, and I contacted Macromedia about your avatar. They want to press charges. :)

Give it 1 or 2 months and there will be a $399 tablet ARM unit from Sony.

Should be an interesting year for Palm OS and PPC altogether.

[PhatCohiba]

Couple of thoughts.

1) On the PPC front, I (and I expect many others) bought a 3800 at the end of 2001. I quickly added a cf WiFi. If I compare what I have to the current state of the art, what is the difference? Biometrics? HA! :bad-words:

The problem for the PPC market is that anyone who bought a unit in the second half of 2001 needs to replace it.

The PPC Phone is cool, but it and the rest of the high end is over priced.

MS needs a new OS release! We need IE 5.5 and an Office suite developed by the Office team, not some glorified viewer. Don't they realize that a real Office suite for the PPC with market leading features for Word, Excel, PPT and entourage (whoops, Outlook) would easily command $100.

2) HP better be watching their backs. 51,000 dells in the first month means that dell will probably sell 1M units in 2003 easy, without new models. I'll bet the the new High End X7 unit will sell for $300-350 and they'll cut the X5 price around aprill to fit it in underneath.

[Ed Hansberry]

As the numbers are, Palm OS's marketshare increased in 2002. From my perspective, it's amazing that Palm OS didn't go down in sales due to cheap PPC's on the other side of the line. Palm OS 5 is expensive. No doubt about it.

You know, if Palm sold 2 devices in 2003 and everyone else left the market, Palm would have 100% of the market and that wouldn't be a good thing for Palm or anyone else.

This slump needs to end. I think Kort's 10-15% increase is a bit optimistic. I hope I'm wrong.

[Bosco]

What will 6 offer that is so different form 5? Why the jump from 5 to 6 so fast if 5 is so great why roll out 6 and be supporting essentially 3 different OSes (4.x,5.x, and 6.x)? If you are talking mid to end 2003 that means people will have had less than a year with OS5...?

Think of OS 5 as a bridge to OS 6. OS 5 supports ARM processors, and OS 6 provides native support to ARM. PACE is still there, so all the old applications should still work. OS 6 is a software change. OS 5 was a hardware change (Dragonball to ARM). It will have new features in the software, different and more efficient, yet eye-candied UI, and is supposed to support multitasking, but there is yet to be a statement about that.

OS 6 is supposed to be out this fall. That's about a year with OS 5. Remember, it's a bridge to full ARM.

[bdegroodt]

I'm telling you. If MS would just play nice with Mac on the ActiveSync front, that's a death blow to Palm. Mac users buy Palms. I'd venture a guess to say that most do because that's the only choice they have (Palm and in the past Handspring.).

Of course. given Steve Job's recent jab at MSFT with Safari and Keynote, I think the relationship might really be on the outs. Maybe it's Apple that doesn't want the ActiveSync?

[mmace]

I don't know how much, if any, came from Palm and how much came from "other."

Palm OS lost less than one point of share year over year, according to Gartner's numbers.

Keep in mind that these are sell-in numbers (you don't know what actually sold through the channel) and the numbers are basically self-reported from the vendors. Gartner doesn't do a direct measurement of the market.

I know the guys at Gartner and they do their absolute best to scrub the numbers as much as they can, but there are limitations to every methodology. The only place where you can currently get a direct measurement of sales is retail.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource

[Ed Hansberry]

Keep in mind that these are sell-in numbers (you don't know what actually sold through the channel) and the numbers are basically self-reported from the vendors. Gartner doesn't do a direct measurement of the market.

I know the guys at Gartner and they do their absolute best to scrub the numbers as much as they can, but there are limitations to every methodology. The only place where you can currently get a direct measurement of sales is retail.
Yeah, but then you miss enterprise sales directly to companies or through wholesalers. There is no perfect method.

We could host a poll here for all PDA users. "I just purchased a Palm" or "I just purchased a Pocket PC." I am sure it would be objective. :wink:

[Foo Fighter]

The only place where you can currently get a direct measurement of sales is retail.

True, but "retail" studies are often limited to brick and mortar vendors. Online merchants and direct channels aren't included. There is still a lot of ground left uncovered.

[Janak Parekh]

Online merchants and direct channels aren't included.
I wonder (for the EOY 2003 numbers) how Dell will be included. Don't they fall in the above category? If so, does NPD or Gartner get numbers on their handheld sales?

--janak

[Bosco]

I'm telling you. If MS would just play nice with Mac on the ActiveSync front, that's a death blow to Palm. Mac users buy Palms. I'd venture a guess to say that most do because that's the only choice they have (Palm and in the past Handspring.).

Sony also works on Macs. I've heard stories of people who have an NX working without any third-party software perfectly with Jaguar. If it doesn't work, there's a $30 software called, "The Missing Sync" and is downloadable at http://www.markspace.com and as I hear it, it works without a hitch.

The one thing that is sort of tricky with Mac and PPC is that NOT A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT WINDOWS ON THEIR DESKTOP WANT WINDOWS ON THEIR HANDHELD.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I'm telling you. If MS would just play nice with Mac on the ActiveSync front, that's a death blow to Palm. Mac users buy Palms.
Well, people using Windows buy Palms too!!

My question to this viewpoint is that "What percentage of Palm users are Mac users?". I'd guess the percentage is very low which in that case, Mac support for PPC would have negligible impact.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

From my perspective, it's amazing that Palm OS didn't go down in sales due to cheap PPC's on the other side of the line. Palm OS 5 is expensive. No doubt about it.

Foo, I agree that the cheap Dell PPC's came too late to have a huge impact, but I think they haven't been as successful as they should have been.
All of the Budget PPCs were late to the party with very little public advertising beforehand to mark their arrival (except for maybe Dell).

[Janak Parekh]

The one thing that is sort of tricky with Mac and PPC is that NOT A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT WINDOWS ON THEIR DESKTOP WANT WINDOWS ON THEIR HANDHELD.
Sez who? Why would PocketMac and a Missing Sync product be developed to help Mac users sync Pocket PCs then? Apart from the anti-Windows crowd, people buy Macs because they feel it's the best tool for them. Ask Marlof. :)

--janak

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

The one thing that is sort of tricky with Mac and PPC is that NOT A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT WINDOWS ON THEIR DESKTOP WANT WINDOWS ON THEIR HANDHELD.
Sez who? Why would PocketMac and a Missing Sync product be developed to help Mac users sync Pocket PCs then? Apart from the anti-Windows crowd, people buy Macs because they feel it's the best tool for them. Ask Marlof. :)
Yeah, that statement assumes that most choose Mac b/c of their disdain for Windows which may be partially true, but the majority of people I know that use Mac do so either b/c their intimidated by the Windows OS or b/c they need to capitalize on it's tremendous strengths in graphics, video editing, etc.

Now I think you could make an argument that a lot of home LINUX users (who use LINUX exclusively) probably are intentionally set against using Windows.

[mmace]

"retail" studies are often limited to brick and mortar vendors. Online merchants and direct channels aren't included. There is still a lot of ground left uncovered.

Actually, most of the online merchants and direct channels are included in the retail numbers. Corporate resellers too. What's not included is manufacturer sales direct to the customer (in other words, Dell).

Mike
CCO, PalmSource

[mmace]

"What percentage of Palm users are Mac users?". I'd guess the percentage is very low which in that case, Mac support for PPC would have negligible impact.

Can't speak for Palm SG, but for Palm OS as a whole the figure is in the single digits (in other words, well under 10%). Most Palm OS users have Windows on their desktops. Next comes Mac, then various flavors of Unix/Linux.

Please don't anyone read that as an anti-Mac statement -- just trying to give the facts here.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource

[Ed Hansberry]

"What percentage of Palm users are Mac users?". I'd guess the percentage is very low which in that case, Mac support for PPC would have negligible impact.

Can't speak for Palm SG, but for Palm OS as a whole the figure is in the single digits (in other words, well under 10%). Most Palm OS users have Windows on their desktops. Next comes Mac, then various flavors of Unix/Linux.

Please don't anyone read that as an anti-Mac statement -- just trying to give the facts here.
I think that is why MactiveSync is just not a high priority with MS. If PalmOS is such a small volume with Macs, Pocket PCs would be smaller still. It is just hard to come up with a business case to justify a product for somethign that is only on 3-5% of desktops. What makes it worse is today you'd need two versions of it, OSX and OS 8/9, further increasing your costs to support.

[Foo Fighter]

And I would add that over the next two years Microsoft will most likely drop support for the Mac platform altogether. Sad to see that happen, but it's surely coming. :cry:

[Ed Hansberry]

And I would add that over the next two years Microsoft will most likely drop support for the Mac platform altogether. Sad to see that happen, but it's surely coming. :cry:
Why shouldn't they? There isn't room for two of everything on that tiny platform. Jobs has done the browser and Powerpoint. When they get done copying Excel and Word, MS can turn the whole Mac dev team to something worthwhile and profitable.

Like powerful Pocket Excel/Word apps for the Pocket PC! :lol:

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

When they get done copying Excel and Word, MS can turn the whole Mac dev team to something worthwhile and profitable.

Like powerful Pocket Excel/Word apps for the Pocket PC! :lol:
:rofl:

...then let's hope that day comes SOON!!!!

[Bosco]

I didn't mean that Mac statement as in people who chose a Mac did so because of their hatred towards Microsoft. What I was really trying to convey is that the advantage of Windows in a handheld to some people, being that it has a "familiar" feel to their desktop, isn't there anymore. I mean of course, there's always going to be people who do Mac on the desktop and Windows on their handheld, but it surely is going to be smaller than people who do Mac on desktop and Palm OS or even Windows on desktop and Palm OS (me).