Pocket PC Misperceptions [Archive] - Thoughts Media Forums

Janak Parekh

01-23-2003, 10:11 PM

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2909299,00.html' target='_blank'>http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupd...2909299,00.html</a><br /><br /></div>Despite the increased popularity of Pocket PCs, a lot of people still have many misperceptions of the platform. The columnist I link to seems to mirror a lot of columnists: they take a cursory look at the platforms, don't bother using either unit, and write a fluff piece up. For example,<br /><li> He cites the Palm platform as interfacing well with Windows. As if the Pocket PC doesn't?<br /><li> The Pocket PC supports Acrobat and AIM... and the Palm doesn't?<br /><li> He cites a Handspring exec who says they can already do everything with weaker processors. This despite Palm's move to ARM and the fact that Handspring is dying.<br /><li> He says that Pocket PCs easily hit $700, when the highest-end units, like the 5450, top out at $699, and the lowest are under $300. This kind of false assertion-based journalism bothers me far more than those that come out and say "I think the Palm's simpler". People are entitled to have an opinion. But being just factually incorrect and misleading? Sigh. No wonder ZDNet has been losing money all these years. :roll:<br /><br />What do you think Microsoft, its licensees, or the community should do about this kind of misreporting?

dsack

01-23-2003, 10:18 PM

The same thing that all the companies that have been mis-represented by Microsoft have done (Sun, Novell, Netscape.....) :? :wink:

I don't think he is claiming that Palm will run Adobe and AIM but that the PocketPC's do because it's more like a handheld computer then a just a PDA.

The guy is getting panned pretty good in the feedback section of the article.

Just my 2cents.

Noel

01-23-2003, 10:30 PM

First, round up a knowlegable, experienced group of Pocket PC thinkers.
Second, create a friendly website with daily news, views, rants and raves, and a really open, pertinent Forum, then ...

What?
Oh!
No kidding!!!

You think the hardware manufacturers ad agencies should do it?

N :idea: EL

pocketpcdude1024

01-23-2003, 10:41 PM

Personally, what I find most irking is the constant referral to my Pocket PC as a "Palm Pilot"! :evil: If I remember correctly, the Palm Pilot had 128K of memory, a 160x160 screen, replaceable batteries and was the size of a brick! I just can't see what people apparently see similar between my Pocket PC and a Palm Pilot other than you can hold both in your hand :wink:

Paragon

01-23-2003, 10:48 PM

What should Microsoft, and it's licensees do about this type of reporting?

Very simple, but they seem to refuse to get behind the complete product line in a major way......MARKETING!!!! Try doing a few TV adds. Adds in non-computer magazines. Train the staff in places like Best Buy, CompUSA, and the others to know and understand the PPC line and sell it with confidence. Get the word out. Or continue being asked "Is that a Palm Pilot"

It's hard to blame people for being un-knowledgable about something that is poorly promoted.

Dave

Janak Parekh

01-23-2003, 10:51 PM

dean_shan

01-23-2003, 11:10 PM

Personally, what I find most irking is the constant referral to my Pocket PC as a "Palm Pilot"! :evil:
I hate that too! :evil: I always tell them "Is that a Model T you're driving?" :wink:

PlayAgain?

01-23-2003, 11:12 PM

What's worse - a journalist or a competitor misrepresenting a product?

You may say that the worse of the two is the journalist because a journalist is supposed to be objective without bias - but a lie is a lie.

As was said regarding Microsoft shafting Sendo, that's business. He who can pass off the biggest, most convincing lies will survive.

All through the market, you get people who should know their own industry better, who write things that aren;t quite true, such as;

Given that PDAs were all in black and white, and cell phones as primitive as calculators, before Microsoft entered the stage and breathed life into this market, I would say that Gandalf and Aragorn live near Seattle and Sauron is either in California or in Finland...

And

Mainframe to PC. Microsoft brought colors and graphical user interface to computing. Same story when calculator (primitive phone) becomes Internet connected, rich multimedia mobile device.

Live with it :roll:

malcolmsharp

01-23-2003, 11:13 PM

Guess I wasn't fast enough... I submitted this one too!

It's one thing to like one platform over another... that's fine. But the factual errors in this thing shows he wrote it with no research and an agenda to dis the PPC. I wouldn't do that if I were writting a similar one... the Palm does have some positive things, and I'd mention them.

But guys... if they have to lie THIS badly to dis the PPC, they are on the run.

Tim Allen

01-23-2003, 11:16 PM

I agree that some decent advertising and marketing could go a long way to removing this problem - if the general public is already aware of the situation then such so-called 'experts' will be less inclined to say stupid things - or if they do they will be ignored.

Microsoft, the masters of marketing, could easily sort this out, but it seems like they're forcing themselves to hold back to get the device OEMs to take on the problem and handle it. Microsoft goes out of its way to avoid being viewed as a hardware manufacturer (other than for their excellent accessories like mice).

Unfortunately the Pocket PC manufacturers up to now have been pretty hopeless in marketing their devices (message to Sony: please please make a Pocket PC, you know it makes sense).

Looks like we'll have to pin our hopes on Dell.

Paragon

01-23-2003, 11:19 PM

It's hard to blame people for being un-knowledgable about something that is poorly promoted.
I agree on the promotion bit, but if you read the guy's previous column on XML for example, he seems to pull things out of a hat. The man is supposed to be an expert, right? I have no problems with consumers being unknowledgeable, that's what we're here for and I do agree that HP is no fantastic marketer, unlike Sony. This is something completely different IMHO.

--janak

Yeah, sorry Janak. I was making more of a general statement. This guy strikes me as a computer guy, not a PDA guy who was asked to do a short Palm/PPC article. He then sat down and thought about it for a few minutes, then pounded this piece out without any real research. The big difference is that this guy is supposed to be better informed. I guess that if there was more info on PPCs out there in general then poor reporting like this would be a bit better because of it. Sad isn't it.

Dave

randyhoutx

01-24-2003, 12:10 AM

I want to know where I can get this new Dell with a flat panel display for under $700!!! The best I could find on their site is a stripped down bargain basement P4 for just over $1000!

01-24-2003, 12:22 AM

He cites a Handspring exec who says they can already do everything with weaker processors. This despite Palm's move to ARM and the fact that Handspring is dying.

This is an interesting comment. There is no question that the "communicator" sector of the market is one of the great hopes of the future. What with the Smartphone, PPCPE, TungstenW, Kyo 7135, Sunsungs etc.

This is a part of the market that Handspring were just about the first to get into and should be leading. The Treo line up however is really pretty sucky. The keyboard is a pain to use, the 300 is single band with no anolog roaming (PPCPE is the same?)

Other than making the CDMA version, HS don't seem to be doing anything exciting with the Treo and it's going to be left in the dust as the new Palm and PPC phones come on the market. Where is the OS5 Treo, the hi res screen, the expansion slot, the tri mode?????

Who is going to buy them, Palm or Rim?

johncj

01-24-2003, 12:24 AM

This guy just strikes me as a complete idiot. Somebody on another forum pointed out his absurd XML column the other day. Now I see this one. I don't understand how he gets published. He gets his facts completely wrong, draws conclusions that are supported by neither his view or actual reality, and wraps it up in a mish-mash of generalities. I don't think you can argue that XML hasn't been marketed effectively. I just don't think this guy is capable of grasping reality.

ploeg

01-24-2003, 12:34 AM

I don't see where Pocket PC users should necessarily get upset or particularly do anything about this. We know what's up, and if we need to sell people on the capabilities of a Pocket PC, we can whip one out and show them.

I also don't see where this article is necessarily anything negative. He gets the facts wrong, but facts are forgettable. A reader typically takes one idea away from an article like this (and lets the facts hang). And the key message of this article is that Pocket PCs are the functional equivalent to PCs of five years ago. Even though this message is inaccurate (Pocket PCs are more capable in some ways, less so in others), it is close enough to get people to give Pocket PCs a second look. I remember doing a lot of work on a computer of five years ago, and it would be pretty cool to be able to carry a computer of that capability in my pocket. ('Course, I have a soft spot in my heart for Appleworks, too.)

Jason Dunn

01-24-2003, 01:04 AM

What should Microsoft, and it's licensees do about this type of reporting? Very simple, but they seem to refuse to get behind the complete product line in a major way......MARKETING!!!!

I have visions dancing in my head of some very funny commercials that could be done with this concept. "Is that a Palm Pilot?" "Noooooooooo!!!" :lol:

Jason Dunn

01-24-2003, 01:05 AM

I want to know where I can get this new Dell with a flat panel display for under $700!!! The best I could find on their site is a stripped down bargain basement P4 for just over $1000!

Well, he wasn't accurate anyplace else in the article, so why assume this number didn't just come off his "Magic 8 Ball of Pricing". :lol:

Janak Parekh

01-24-2003, 02:18 AM

I also don't see where this article is necessarily anything negative. He gets the facts wrong, but facts are forgettable.
I disagree. There are lots of things to criticize about the Pocket PC, but get the darned facts straight! Criticize all you want about Pocket Word or Pocket Excel, that may be warranted. But he tends to be dismissive of the technology's cost at the end ("you can get a P4 with a flat panel for the same price!"), and in that regard I think he's doing a disservice.

Yeah, sorry Janak. I was making more of a general statement.
You don't need to apologize ;) I agree with your points.

--janak

Timothy Rapson

01-24-2003, 02:36 AM

This goes to show how you can really get yourself worked up about nothing, if you want to. And that you can make someone sound like they are saying the most outrageous nonsense, if you take snippets out of context or misparaphrase them.

OK, the article is a lot of blowing hot air, generalites, and odd expectations that don't match up with most peoples views of what PDAs are and what they should be useful for. But, pointless and confused is not the same as outright false and stupid.

For example,
He cites the Palm platform as interfacing well with Windows. As if the Pocket PC doesn't?
He doesn't say PPC doesn't, just that Palm does.
The Pocket PC supports Acrobat and AIM... and the Palm doesn't?
He doesn't say the Palm doesn't. He only implies that the PPC does it better and that it is more natural to select a PPC if that is what you want to do with a PDA.

He cites a Handspring exec who says they can already do everything with weaker processors. This despite Palm's move to ARM and the fact that Handspring is dying.

What would you expect a Handspring exec to say? Should the writer put in a disclaimer that the exec is a partial to HandSpring products? How silly that would be?

He says that Pocket PCs easily hit $700, when the highest-end units, like the 5450, top out at $699, and the lowest are under $300.

Of all your points this one is the one you could realistically get worked up over. Surely this guy should have at least looked at the latest sub $300 models before writing this. Unless you are only looking for monochrome models, the newest PPCs are far better feature per dollar values. His point about prices does make a good support for his previous paragraph that warns you can spend as much on a PPC as a desktop. That is, in fact, true.

. What do you think Microsoft, its licensees, or the community should do about this kind of misreporting?

His basic point, that if you want a desktop Windows computer in your pocket, you will lean to the PPC, but if you want an organizer you will lean to the Palm, is something that has been repeated here over and over. So, Microsoft and its licensees can accept that he got the basic value of the PPC correct and hope that their plans to sell Pocket PCs rather than just organizers is going to succeed.

dbman

01-24-2003, 03:24 AM

The most important thing that Microsoft can do is find a way to make the OS faster and more stable. It also wouldn't hurt to find ways to reward the better programmers out there.

Pony99CA

01-24-2003, 03:45 AM

He says that Pocket PCs easily hit $700, when the highest-end units, like the 5450, top out at $699, and the lowest are under $300.

Well, people will say "$700" when things are $699, so I don't think that was bad. If you're really picky, though, Pocket PCs have exceeded $700; the 3970 was listed at $749 (and still was at HP's Web site for quite some time, even after the 5450 came out; it's $599 now).

Steve

johncj

01-24-2003, 04:00 AM

I'm sorry Timothy, but this article is "outright false and stupid." He said:

"Pocket PCs are also targeting Bluetooth (a high-speed, low-power, microwave wireless link) as their connection to the rest of the world."

That part is outright false and the rest of that paragraph is outright stupid. He doesn't even get the simplest facts correct, the prices. This is not just ignorance, this is clearly stupidity. This article might have been excused two years ago, but you would have to wave away the existence of the Tungsten, all of Sony's Clies, Palm OS 5, and the Dell Axim for any of this article to make sense.

ctmagnus

01-24-2003, 04:16 AM

The term "warchalking" comes to mind. :)

ploeg

01-24-2003, 05:34 AM

I disagree. There are lots of things to criticize about the Pocket PC, but get the darned facts straight! Criticize all you want about Pocket Word or Pocket Excel, that may be warranted. But he tends to be dismissive of the technology's cost at the end ("you can get a P4 with a flat panel for the same price!"), and in that regard I think he's doing a disservice.

I agree that journalists who get their facts wrong should get their feet held to the fire. I simply hold that factual errors, if they are remembered at all, are easily corrected. If you're in the market for a PDA, you'll read the first paragraph of the article, gloss over the middle, maybe read the punchline at the end, and then go to Staples, where the salesperson will set you straight as to how the real world works. I can't see being overly concerned about a journalist's price quotes when the actual differences are absolutely apparent when you walk up to the counter.

Further, I don't gather that the tone of this article is as anti-PPC as you make it out to be. (Unless you think it's a bad thing to have a PC in your pocket.) You quoted the last paragraph in the article, but that was almost certainly put in as the "equalizer" for a generally positive article about PPCs. Not everybody who reads the article will make it that far, but everybody who reads the article will read the part saying how much more powerful PPCs are versus Palms.

Sure, drop the guy a line and let him know that he stepped in it. But does Microsoft need to be particularly concerned about this article? Not really.

gfunkmagic

01-24-2003, 06:35 AM

C'mon guys, this thread is soo funny. I had this same conversation with a bunch of PalmOS followers who read that article and swore it was totally biased against the PalmOS!! :roll: :roll: The fact is that article is wrong in numerous ways about both platforms. The author evidently doesn't know too much about pda's irrespective of the platform. Personally, I felt the article is rather neutral in terms of bias, but wretchedly outdated and uninformed. Furthermore, I think its rather unproductive to constantly shraffe about perceived un-complimentary articles about your gadgets. Just be happy and enjoy your toy already...

Kati Compton

01-24-2003, 06:42 AM

I believe that Janak was in fact pointing out how the article was incorrectly uncomplimentary in different ways to both Palms and PPCs.

Janak Parekh

01-24-2003, 07:12 AM

This goes to show how you can really get yourself worked up about nothing, if you want to.
True. Yet at the same time, there are many reporters like this. Not just for handhelds, mind you; for everything. ZD happens to be particularly egregious in having these factual inaccuracies all over.

Mind you, I'm not red in the face about this. I tend to dismiss this stuff. But I know a lot of people who read articles like this and then repeat fluff pieces like they're the experts.

But, pointless and confused is not the same as outright false and stupid.
OK, fine; pointless and confused still sucks if the guy is trying to give advice. :)

He doesn't say the Palm doesn't. He only implies that the PPC does it better and that it is more natural to select a PPC if that is what you want to do with a PDA.
No, I think the implication is clear. He says the Palm does blah, blah. The PPC supports Acrobat and AIM. How much clearer a contrast can it be? He mentions nothing about it being more "natural", implied or explicit.

What would you expect a Handspring exec to say? Should the writer put in a disclaimer that the exec is a partial to HandSpring products? How silly that would be?
True. ;) My point is, he's just making himself look silly for including that quote. :)

His basic point, that if you want a desktop Windows computer in your pocket, you will lean to the PPC, but if you want an organizer you will lean to the Palm, is something that has been repeated here over and over.
Yup, he has some very general points, surrounded with inaccurate information. That's my whole point - this is a rather fluff piece! I think we're not really arguing here. :)

--janak

Janak Parekh

01-24-2003, 07:25 AM

The most important thing that Microsoft can do is find a way to make the OS faster and more stable. It also wouldn't hurt to find ways to reward the better programmers out there.
Now, see, you actually have an angle, as opposed to fluff. Flesh that out with a technical discussion, and you have a real argument. Not "they're expensive". I'll argue the stable point with you, though. :)

Well, people will say "$700" when things are $699, so I don't think that was bad. If you're really picky, though, Pocket PCs have exceeded $700; the 3970 was listed at $749 (and still was at HP's Web site for quite some time, even after the 5450 came out; it's $599 now).
Absolutely, but note the article's date. First thing I checked. I still maintain that a "Comparable Pocket PC can easily hit $700" is far from true. :) Even the 3970, when it came out, was far ahead of most "typical" color Palms.

Further, I don't gather that the tone of this article is as anti-PPC as you make it out to be.
It's more "anti-correctness", IMHO. I, and others, pointed out a number of factual errors about Palm, as well. I'm just railing on the Pocket PC side of things because, well, this is Pocket PC Thoughts. :)

C'mon guys, this thread is soo funny. I had this same conversation with a bunch of PalmOS followers who read that article and swore it was totally biased against the PalmOS!!
Agreed! :D Re not complaining, I agree, but at a certain point it's really frustrating too. :)

--janak

omu

01-24-2003, 08:03 AM

I have got about five years of experience working with journalists on my specials subject, which has got nothing to do with computers.

But: I know quite a lot of people who regularly spend hours and hours of the most intensive talk with journalists, helping them to prepare an articel which is usually on high-time and needs to be finished very soon.

If you look at the article itself, you will find (90% of all cases) that about half of the details you explained in HOURS are not mentioned, or included in a wrong way (e.g. they were not really understood).

This applies to ALL subjects that I know. If you are an expert in any given field, read a public-interest journal on your subject (if there is one), and you will almost every time find that very important details are missing or wrong.

What I want to point out: If you think its Misreporting - it's just the way journalists work, as far as I know now for about 5 years.

I only know of one guy who manages to get the articles pretty much exactely right. He has the most intense contact with about 5-10 journalists for about 8 years now, and he regularly talks to them for half several hours. So after these years, they now no exactely what he's talking about, and get the finer details right as well.

omu

01-24-2003, 08:06 AM

(sorry for the typos, what I wanted to point out: The guy I know spends a very big amount of time on a regular basis, and by this manages to get the details right. this is a strategy that needs lots of effort on a personal basis).

Ekkie Tepsupornchai

01-24-2003, 10:59 AM

Ekkie Tepsupornchai

01-24-2003, 11:11 AM

ppcsurfr

01-24-2003, 11:18 AM

Ekkie Tepsupornchai

01-24-2003, 01:45 PM

Why can't these guys interview people like Jason Dunn, Ed Hansberry, Brad Adrian, and the others? Then they can get the facts straight... and get better answers.

It seems that if they coe up a question, they do a quick google search and if nothing appears, they quickly surmise that it can't be done... :(

Well, should Pocket PC Thoughts step in and set the record straight???

:lol:
Good point. I think they should talk to enthusiast sites from both sides to get the latest on what each platform is capable of. Don't go to PPC experts to get Palm opinions and don't go to Palm experts to get PPC opinions.

Timothy Rapson

01-24-2003, 02:36 PM

dazz

01-24-2003, 03:00 PM

I couldn't resist!! I e-mailed the author of the column and suggest he check out this thread. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

I hope we WAKES UP!! 8O :twisted:

ploeg

01-24-2003, 03:44 PM

It's more "anti-correctness", IMHO. I, and others, pointed out a number of factual errors about Palm, as well. I'm just railing on the Pocket PC side of things because, well, this is Pocket PC Thoughts.

Fair enough. I think that factual errors need to be addressed, but they are a fairly minor thing. It's discouraging to see a professional make errors and have them make it into print, but I've gotten out of the habit of believing everything I read, anyway. Just address the errors (kindly!) and let it go at that.

BTW, re: Bluetooth and PPCs, it depends upon where you're based. As I understand it, Bluetooth is a much more widely used tech in Europe than in the US, and PPC makers are making European versions with Bluetooth built in. So if you are a writer based in Europe, PPCs are targeting Bluetooth as a way to provide connectivity to cell phones and other devices.

johncj

01-24-2003, 04:03 PM

Timothy,

A model with Bluetooth does not equal "targeting Bluetooth as their connection to the rest of the world". That statement is false. Flat out wrong. No relationship to the real world. Pocket PCs have many ways to connect to the rest of the world and WiFi is substantially more popular than Bluetooth, although both are dwarfed by USB and even wired Ethernet. The sad part of this article is that not that it is anti-ppc, but that it is just plain wrong on some many different levels. He didn't even spell the Handspring exec's name correctly. Normally, I would not even bother about that, but he didn't check the prices on the Pocket PCs, the Palm OS models, the Dell PCs. He bases his analysis on facts that incorrect, assumptions that are false, trends that don't exist, and biases that have no factual basis. I find nothing of value in this article. This is way below even the usual tripe that Zdnet publishes.

John

Janak Parekh

01-24-2003, 04:36 PM

I only know of one guy who manages to get the articles pretty much exactely right. He has the most intense contact with about 5-10 journalists for about 8 years now, and he regularly talks to them for half several hours. So after these years, they now no exactely what he's talking about, and get the finer details right as well.
I understand your skepticism, and to some extent I agree. However, there's bad, and then there's just insanely bad. I've interacted with a few reporters myself, and have had generally good experiences. They may not get all the nitty-gritty, but they can rise above it and raise legitimate high-level points.

Besides, how hard is it to get the price right?

--janak

Timothy Rapson

01-25-2003, 01:56 AM

[quote="Janak Parekh;) . :)
. :)

--janak[/quote]

You have nice manners :)

I wonder if you smile and laugh that much when out and about in the real world?

Like you said, we are not really that much in disagreement.

Timothy Rapson

01-25-2003, 02:02 AM

Timothy,

A model with Bluetooth This is way below even the usual tripe that Zdnet publishes.

John

On further reflection, it does seem like his editor told him last October to write SOMETHING about PDAs. So, he started with prices, (pre-Tungsten, pre-Dell) and got those done. Then the editor told him he had to have a quote. So, he got some HandSpring exec and mispelled his name. THEN he got a list of buzzwords (BlueTooth, PDF, etc.) that he was supposed to include.

What is most amazing is that he could spend from October until January on this and still show no more insight than a 10th grader who had to write a one page paper overnight.

Yet, he has the press pass to get into the back rooms at CES and see the really cool stuff and we have to wait to hear about it here. Life is so unfair.

Janak Parekh

01-25-2003, 02:11 AM

Yet, he has the press pass to get into the back rooms at CES and see the really cool stuff and we have to wait to hear about it here. Life is so unfair.
Amen to that!

(re the "manners": no reason not to be nice, eh? ;) I don't usually get really riled up over much.)

--janak

johncj

01-25-2003, 04:07 AM

Timothy,

Your scenario is scary because it maps perfectly to the article. I think you hit the nail on the head. That's just sad.

John

pocketpcdude1024

01-27-2003, 02:39 AM

What is most amazing is that he could spend from October until January on this and still show no more insight than a 10th grader who had to write a one page paper overnight.

You don't give 10th graders ample credit. I happen to be one and I find that I include a LOT of depth and insight if I do my papers the night before. It's only when I write them in the study hall before they're due that they lose that depth stuff.

What's really neat is that I can word process on my Pocket PC, then print it on a IR port-equipped printer! It really looks professional, and it can sometimes fool them into thinking that you had some forethought to type it rather than write it! :wink: