Let this be a lesson to ya!

[Lotto]

In response to this article on ZDNet about cleaning your hard drives before getting rid of them:

Old hard drives yield data bonanza
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-980824.html

Here's a posted story we just might need to remember this time of year when we are trading up our ppc's.....


Old PDAs do the same
Name: Nigel Johnstone
Posted At: 07:11 GMT 01/16/2003

I got a Rex6000 (a micro PDA) after it was discontinued. The one I got had been returned to the store by its previous owner.

The guy had obviously been using it, tried to upgrade the OS. Theres a tempting utility included in the package to do it - but no OS image available to do the upgrade.
If you start the upgrade without the OS image you cannot get back to a working PDA.

Then he reset it so nobody knew and took it back to the store for a refund.

I found the OS image on the internet (thank you abandonware copyright rules). I download the image from the internet and upgraded it.

Suddenly I have his PDA stuff, nothing interesting, just a porn site password or two. He was a computer guy for a telecoms company (his employer's name and his network login there too), wonder if he reads Zdnet?"


Sumptin' ta think about, eh?

[Janak Parekh]

It's just a matter of knowing the right way of cleaning things out. I've used Norton WipeInfo years ago in the right cirumstances. Of course, writing zeroes all over the disk takes a ridiculously long time.

Now, when you do a hard reset on a Pocket PC, what exactly does it do? Most hard-resets will detach the battery, and let the RAM clear out. Given enough time it'll be nearly impossible to recover any data. However, if you're in the military or some such classified field, fire may be your only option. ;)

--janak

[Pony99CA]

Now, when you do a hard reset on a Pocket PC, what exactly does it do? Most hard-resets will detach the battery, and let the RAM clear out. Given enough time it'll be nearly impossible to recover any data. However, if you're in the military or some such classified field, fire may be your only option. ;)

I suspect running an M1A2 Abrams over the Pocket PC would work fine. :lol:

Steve
http://welcome.hp-ww.com/country/us/eng/img/prodserv/handhelds_for_home_and.jpghttp://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1a1fire.gif

[Kati Compton]

It's just a matter of knowing the right way of cleaning things out. I've used Norton WipeInfo years ago in the right cirumstances. Of course, writing zeroes all over the disk takes a ridiculously long time.


And you only have to do it what, 7-12 times to make it permanent? No problem... ;)

[Janak Parekh]

And you only have to do it what, 7-12 times to make it permanent? No problem... ;)
No, no. After WipeInfo runs the first time, you unplug the disk, turn it upside-down, and shake it really, really hard. You'll see all the displaced bits floating down. It's much faster that way. :lol:

On a serious note: I once had to run WipeInfo to erase some confidential files on about 30 machines or so. Wouldn't be a problem except for the Novell server that some files were on. I didn't know better at the time, so we backed up the server, WipeInfo'd the disk, reinstalled Novell, and restored the files. Over all the machines, we spent about 10 hours. I took a nap around 4am because I couldn't stand looking at the same screen anymore. 8O

--janak

[DrtyBlvd]

http://www.jetico.com/

BCWipe - Works quite quickly - and no need for "shaking upside down" afterwards, either!

[DrtyBlvd]

"Garfinkel and Shelat"

Is it me, or is that funny? A la 'Steptoe & Son'? :lol:

[Janak Parekh]

But shaking the hard drive is so much more fun! :lol:

Scarily enough, I've really had to give hard drives good shakes, but not for wiping data; with hard drives whose spindles bind up and stop spinning on startup, a good shake can often unjar it and make it live long enough to do a backup. I've also had to resort to banging the hard drive against a table at times. That's called desperation. ;)

--janak

[ECOslin]

I'm all for a drill press. Two or three times and no info is coming off of that drive. I've got a degauser circle, though I'm not certain it would effectively erase anything.

Edward

[Lotto]

A bit hard to sell or giveaway after a drill press I'd imagine. :?

[ux4484]

heh....a degauser works well on audio tapes, and maybe floppies, but digitally stored info is harder to "wipe", and if it's compressed, it's even harder (the more compressed a file it, the harder it is to "wipe". and of course trying to wipe a HD with it's aluminum cover still on it will yeild zero results.

I too have slam/banged more than a few hard drives to ge them working again, very satisfying to hear that spin afterwards. :D Some have worked month's and even years afterwards.
Besides the myriad utilities to fill drives with all data "0"'s (which takes some time). If the drive is small/old but may have sensitive data on it...... I've always been of the "destroy it" mentality. couple hammer whacks usually makes it through the shell and destroys all the platters, and is a wonderful IT stress reliever :D :D :wink:

[DrtyBlvd]

All this mindeless destruction and violence makes me hungry. :D

Out of curiousity, would a magnet have any effect on it at all? How does it actually work, data writing to hard drives?

[Janak Parekh]

Out of curiousity, would a magnet have any effect on it at all? How does it actually work, data writing to hard drives?
Well, it's a magnetic medium, so given a sufficiently strong magnet you could wipe it. A little magnet won't do, though, it's in a pretty substantial case.

If you really wanted to destroy the drive, removing the top and letting the drive lose its vacuum should ultimately be enough. Dust is absolute killer for the densities a typical hard drive has. Then take a magnet to the surface for good measure. :twisted:

--janak

[DrtyBlvd]

Sort of get "Medieval" on it's "ass" :lol:

[mrtaz65]

Sorry, but there is no 'vacuum' to get rid of.

If you look, you will see 'breather' holes in the casing of the drive. You are 100% correct about dust being a bad thing, but not as bad as you would expect.

I had an old RLL drive that the bearings would freeze up anytime it stopped. I was able to remove the cover and spin the platter by using the edge. It worked for months until I could afford a new IDE drive :)

[Adam]

Out of curiousity, would a magnet have any effect on it at all? How does it actually work, data writing to hard drives?
Well, it's a magnetic medium, so given a sufficiently strong magnet you could wipe it. A little magnet won't do, though, it's in a pretty substantial case.

I used to work in an establishment that had serious rules about taking disks off-site as well as having access to some serious pieces of equipment. A friend of mine wanted to take a disc away but security wanted it wiped first. He used an application that at the time was considered good enough for most uses, but the security weren't satisfied.

So he picked up the disc, wlaked into the next door lab and put it on top of a very big electro-magnet. We are talking *very* 8O big. They were happy after that.

Incidentally, I thought that banging hardware to get it work was called "percussive maintenance".

[stareja]

heh....a degauser works well on audio tapes, and maybe floppies, but digitally stored info is harder to "wipe", and if it's compressed, it's even harder (the more compressed a file it, the harder it is to "wipe". and of course trying to wipe a HD with it's aluminum cover still on it will yeild zero results.

You've never seen a military grade degauser! If the drive isn't strapped down properly, it'll rip that drive clear off the table and across a 4 foot (or more) distance!

A big enough magnet is enough to wipe ANY magnetic media.

[Janak Parekh]

Sorry, but there is no 'vacuum' to get rid of.
Interesting, I must have been misinformed all these years. Thanks for the info, I'll check it out.

I had an old RLL drive that the bearings would freeze up anytime it stopped. I was able to remove the cover and spin the platter by using the edge. It worked for months until I could afford a new IDE drive :)
Of course, the densities on those ancient RLL drives (I hope it wasn't an ST238R :D) was much, much less than your typical modern IDE drive.

--janak

[ux4484]

I've used industrial type degaussers (20 amp) and bulk "reel to reel" 1" tape erasers. Neither could fully erase a SQL DDS backup tape fully in under a minute, even then there would always be data left in the middle of the tape. While both could wipe out audio tapes and non compressed DDS backups instantly, it is much harder to wipe ultra-compressed data.
It's directly proportional: more compression=harder to wipe magnetically.

Hard drives: Aluminum is a magnetic sheild, you may wipe some of the data off with a large magnet, but not every bit of it where the shielding is the thickest (around the platters). The only true HD security is destruction as most companies can't afford "a big enough magnet".

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Scarily enough, I've really had to give hard drives good shakes, but not for wiping data; with hard drives whose spindles bind up and stop spinning on startup, a good shake can often unjar it and make it live long enough to do a backup. I've also had to resort to banging the hard drive against a table at times. That's called desperation. ;)
Good gracious!!

I have a HD at home that crashed on me, couldn't get any data restored... after reading this, I think I'm going to give it a good spanking!!

[DrtyBlvd]

...Incidentally, I thought that banging hardware to get it work was called "percussive maintenance".

:rofl:

I think I'm going to give it a good spanking!!

Oooo suits you sir :lol:

[Janak Parekh]

I have a HD at home that crashed on me, couldn't get any data restored... after reading this, I think I'm going to give it a good spanking!!
Mind you, it doesn't help for real "head crashes", but only situations where the bearings jam. In these cases, the hard drive is often whining (or "screaming") for a while before the actual jam occurs.

--janak

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Mind you, it doesn't help for real "head crashes", but only situations where the bearings jam. In these cases, the hard drive is often whining (or "screaming") for a while before the actual jam occurs.
Yeah, I do suspect actual physical damage between the head and one of the disks, but even in that circumstance a nice "smacking around" won't the situation any worse... Besides, it sounds does sound like fun... :wink:

[Janak Parekh]

Yeah, I do suspect actual physical damage between the head and one of the disks, but even in that circumstance a nice "smacking around" won't the situation any worse... Besides, it sounds does sound like fun... :wink:
Well, if you can decide that it's really toast, throwing it against the floor with all your might is indeed a tension-reducer. ;)

--janak

[DrtyBlvd]

Make a movie so that we might share in that stress relief! :lol:

[Pony99CA]

I've used industrial type degaussers (20 amp) and bulk "reel to reel" 1" tape erasers. Neither could fully erase a SQL DDS backup tape fully in under a minute, even then there would always be data left in the middle of the tape. While both could wipe out audio tapes and non compressed DDS backups instantly, it is much harder to wipe ultra-compressed data.
It's directly proportional: more compression=harder to wipe magnetically.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this. Compressing the data doesn't write the data any "stronger" on the medium. It may be that your compressed data sat closer to the middle of the tape, and hence was harder to erase, but that would be true of a smaller, uncompressed file, too.

If a compression scheme also includes error-correcting bits, that would make it easier to recover, but the data itself would not be any harder to wipe.

Steve

[ux4484]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this. Compressing the data doesn't write the data any "stronger" on the medium. It may be that your compressed data sat closer to the middle of the tape, and hence was harder to erase, but that would be true of a smaller, uncompressed file, too. Steve

Believe it or don't :?
I work on digital recording equipment every day, have been trained on this topic by multiple manufacturers of devices and media, and have proofs from testing it myself on media as we have to verify the sensitive data is fully removed, If we cannot, we have to destroy the media. Most tape type media (the type of media specifically that is the hardest to wipe) has a header at the beginning and the end of the data on that tape, we have been able to not only see the data but have been able to restore both headers from what is left on a "degaussed" tape. Now you wont be able to restore the actual tape that is degaussed, but you can transfer any readable data to another tape that can then possibly be restored.
We've found that the most reliable option is to re-format the tape we use linux to fill it with zero's (if it's to be used again). If its to be retired we format it, zero it and then degause it to disable it from being used again....and then destroy it.

[ECOslin]

Maybe the drive manufacturers could make the drives from an iron-oxide polymer coated paper, so that you could shred the drive when you're done with it.

Maybe they could include a thermal charge inside the drive to detonate and slag the drive when it's being removed without permission or on purpose. or maybe just a thimble-ful of metal shavings released into the drive.

A purposeful bit by bit erasure takes time, and special software. Time often equals money. Oops, that drive that went out the door had customer info on it, don't tell anyone.

Most used drives, no-one actually looks before they fdisk and reformat. If you have to buy 150 drives to get customer info, probably only less than a half had info on them, and you'd have to know how to interpret the data, the raw mail files, etc. Anyone who is looking is probably a snoop anyway, but not likely to use the data in a harmful way.

Edward

[Techtoys]

Putting the drive / pda in the field of a magnetic resonant scanner (the things that show you your brians) works pretty well for clearing them out.... :)

[PHactotum]

I've also had to resort to banging the hard drive against a table at times. That's called desperation. ;)

--janak

At one time a certain hardware manufacture had a problem with "sticktion" on their SCSI hot swap drives. These are the high priced drives that you can only justify for a server. The recommended solution was to hold the drive about 3 inches from the floor on its side, then release it to the floor. Preferably the floor was concrete.

This came straight from the hardware service reps.

Note the "sticktion" only occured if you powered off the drive, say during maintenance.

[Kati Compton]

My favorite "hit the delicate electronic advice" was in a monitor manual. I forget the situation in which you were supposed to do this, but they suggested at one point "apply light shock to side of unit with open hand."

:)