PPC fears

[Michel]

Hello All,

After having my m505 stolen, I'm now for first time seriously considering a PPC (a Toshiba e330). My 2 years with the Palm platform have been excellent, I can't really complain about anything. Yet lately (the last year or so) I've been missing more advanced features: high res displays, mp3, native word/excel.... etc; if Palm had these features I wouldn't even considering "switching camps".

But my fears are with PPC are:
- PPC OS stability
- app availibility (thousands available for the Palm OS)
- I read somewhere in this forum that DocsToGo handles word/excel better than PPC - is this true, and how can that be???
- mp3 sound quality
- battery life

In all, those are all typical "ex-Palm user" fears.
If you (PPC users) could give me a hint or two, I would appreciate it very much.

Thank you
Michel

[pocketpcdude1024]

You shouldn't be afraid. If you set your Palm to sync with Outlook, you're golden because all that info transfers when you set up your Pocket PC. It has been determined that DocsToGo is better than Pocket Word in some format-retaining respects, but DocsToGo can't handle a native format word doc like a Pocket PC can. Beaming is a synch because info *usually* transfers without a big problem. If you can charge your handheld every few days, you should be fine with the battery & MP3 quality is great with headphones, although the on-board speaker doesn't do a great job. App availability and stability are some of the "downsides" to switching. You may occasionally have to soft reset your device to get it working again and the array of available apps is underwhelming compared to the number Palm has out. Just a few pointers.

[spursdude]

Hello All,

But my fears are with PPC are:
- PPC OS stability

PPC's so called "lack of stability" is way overhyped in my opinion. My Maestro hasn't frozen up on me in weeks! And even when it does freeze up, it's no big deal at all. You pop out your stylus, poke the little button, wait 10 seconds, and everything is back to normal. Please don't let stability scare you away from a PPC, as it is not a problem whatsoever for me as well as most other users.

app availibility (thousands available for the Palm OS)


There are, I believe, thousands of apps for the PPC as well (although I have no facts to back this up.) I haven't been for lack of applications on my PPC - I actually have too many to keep track of. There is less PPC freeware than Palm freeware, although nearly all of my software is free, and it's been plenty sufficient for me. It may differ for other users, though.

I read somewhere in this forum that DocsToGo handles word/excel better than PPC - is this true, and how can that be???

It's quite possible - I've never used DocsToGo, but Pocket Word does pretty poorly when trying to handle a document format. However, one advantage of the PPC is that your documents will sync directly back onto your PC without you having to do any work yourself.

mp3 sound quality

My Audiovox Maestro has great sound quality (and I am one of those people who can tell the difference in bitrates). It's not as good as my Rio Volt CD player, but it's definitely fine for me. Also, the convenience of having my music on my Pocket PC is great, regardless of quality.

battery life

Battery life on my Audiovox Maestro is somewhat weak - around 3 or 4 hours, which may be far below what your m505 was at. However, newer PPC models (such as the Dell Axim) have awesome battery life - around 8-10 hours. Also, if you can get a charge in every couple o' days, you should be fine.

I say get a PPC - you'll be happy with all the features, great screen and hardware, and you'll realize that most of your fears, though definitely legitimate, are a bit overhyped.[/u]

[seanturner]

I had to buy 5 addon applications for my Palm Vx to get it to do what I wanted. I had to buy nothing else to get my PPC to do what I wanted. (Then I realized how much more powerful the PPC was when I was sitting in a cafe in Peru, terminal serviced into my desktop in California...

The MP3 Playback quality is execellent.

Battery life is considerably less than at least the old Palm Vx's was, but, PPC's do have a lot more to power. I have only seen the new Palm's though so I don't know what bat life is like to them.

But, for the extra power you get with the PPC I say its worth it.

[seanturner]

Here is a battery life test I did on my iPaq 5455 but bear in mind that I kept the backlight on while doing this test and it will significantly drop the bat life. I kept the backlight on because I was trying to assess how much of a drain 802.11b would be...

http://www.pdajunkie.net/wirelessinetspeedtest.htm

[Janak Parekh]

Sean,

I don't think that's a really appropriate link for this situation; it's misleading.

Michel, battery life between "new" color Palms and Pocket PCs is nearly identical, unless you do special things like Wi-Fi. Don't worry about it too much. If you need insane battery life, then a B&W Palm device is one of the few choices, but most people are very satisfied with PPC battery lives IMHO.

I'll second the stability of the PPC OS. Have you ever had a "Fatal Error" on a Palm? I had it quite a few times...

--janak

[seanturner]

Yeah, I agree its not the best link, but, I was simply trying to give him a general idea of what to expect: basically at least 3.5 hours. I also wanted to point out that the ability to do somethings like wireless comes at a huge cost to power.

But, I agree that that's not the best benchmark for this question.

As for the stability, I've only had my PPC lock up once in the last 2 years. However, there are way too many cases in which i've had to do soft resets at times to get it to sync and connect to 802.11b using various methods.

[Fzara]

I'll second the stability of the PPC OS. Have you ever had a "Fatal Error" on a Palm? I had it quite a few times...

--janak

Thats when you have an application loaded on your Palm OS, either with XMaster or some other app, that has poorly written code.

However, how many times has your PPC frozen up on you, with Pocket Plus installed, and the Dell Switcher bar on the taskbar, and you power up your handheld really fast, and type in your 4 PIN password in less than 1 second? ive had my pda crash multiple times. I think this is alot more ridiculous than the "fatal error" that you try to bomb the Palm with.

Also, battery life im sure would be much more on a Palm rather than a PPC, however, you're also not doing video testing on your Palm ;)

Also, to the person who said soft-resetting is annoying. Its the fact that you simply HAVE to soft-reset, is what bothers me. Its the principle. Oh, Windows95 crashed, but your system boots up in 10 seconds, just reset every couple of seconds, hey its only a 10 second boot-up. TRUST ME. THIS IS EXTREMELY ANNNOYING.

Again, this is exactly what I mean of a double standard with the Palm and the PPC. One flames another platform, only for their benefit. Please, please, please, mostly everyone wants two sides to a story, not just one side.

My 0.02.

Its 3:45am. I'm outta here.

[Michel]

Thanks All for replying, I appreciate it :)

Concerning the stability: I'll admit that I've done plenty of [soft] resets on my Palm (and one hard reset) - heck, I even knew how to provoke a fatal error with a version of DateBk5. But perhaps the difference is that the resets on Palm depend on the malwritten apps, not the OS.

So based on your answers/opinions, I think I can conclude that I'll have no problem with the sound quality, battery life nor the OS - and perhaps apps available. Fair enough.

A couple of other things though:

1) I saw on this site that a new version of the OS is coming out this spring; will I will able to update OS version my PPC (in particular Toshiba)? If so, is it safe?

2) I read someplace that PPC apps run/don't run on a given PPC based in part on the processor, i.e. that there are CPU incompatibility problems. Is this true?

3) Are any of you posters ex/current Palm owners?

4) As you can tell, I've pretty much decided which PPC I like best (Toshiba e330), mainly because of its slim size and [supposedly] good battery life: could anyone tell me about personal experiences and/or opinions about this particular model? How does it compare to other models on the market?

I know those are many questions, but frankly I don't dare to do the switch until I'm clear on all this (last night I even failed to bid on a well priced e330 due to my doubts.....). I'm very thankfull for all your input - I really need it.

Again, I'm much obliged to you All!
Michel.P

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

First let me say that if you've been happy with the Palm but desire a device with higher resolution color screen, MP3 playback, word/excel support, then be sure you at least also consider some of the Sony devices which have higher resolution, support MP3/ATRAC music playback, and yes, have better Word/Excel support with the DocsToGo package (if you're willing to pay for it).

1) I saw on this site that a new version of the OS is coming out this spring; will I will able to update OS version my PPC (in particular Toshiba)? If so, is it safe?
The rumors that I'm hearing is that you should be safe if you have at device with at least 32MB ROM. I *think* the Toshiba does have that. Keep in mind though that some Toshiba owners have recently gotten burned b/c Toshiba has been dropping support for some of their devices (don't know exactly which ones but be sure to look into that).

2) I read someplace that PPC apps run/don't run on a given PPC based in part on the processor, i.e. that there are CPU incompatibility problems. Is this true?
Older PPCs used also supported MIPS/SH3 processors which are virtually extinct now. The only processors you'll see are the original ARM processors and the XScale processors (which are later versions of the ARM processor). Almost all software now will safely run on both. The Toshiba has one of those two ARM processors.

3) Are any of you posters ex/current Palm owners?
Yes, I'm a former Palm V user. I switched over 2 years ago and have never looked back.

4) As you can tell, I've pretty much decided which PPC I like best (Toshiba e330), mainly because of its slim size and [supposedly] good battery life: could anyone tell me about personal experiences and/or opinions about this particular model? How does it compare to other models on the market?
Consider that the current Dell Axim (while bigger) has a superior backlit reflective screen, 48MB ROM, more powerful XScale processor, and by far the best battery-life of all PPCs for less than $300.

If you haven't already done so, go to a local computer store and compare the screen between the Toshiba and any of the following: HP1910, iPaq39xx/54xx, Viewsonic V35. Many swear by the new backlit reflective screens which all of those models have. The Toshiba in comparison is the older side-lit reflective screen.

[Michel]

First let me say that if you've been happy with the Palm but desire a device with higher resolution color screen, MP3 playback, word/excel support, then be sure you at least also consider some of the Sony...
I would, but unfortunataly Sony doesn't have any retail stores in Spain :(

Keep in mind though that some Toshiba owners have recently gotten burned b/c Toshiba has been dropping support for some of their devices (don't know exactly which ones but be sure to look into that).
I definately will, thanks for the warning!

Yes, I'm a former Palm V user. I switched over 2 years ago and have never looked back.
Which PPC do you have?

Consider that the current Dell Axim (while bigger) has a superior backlit reflective screen, 48MB ROM, more powerful XScale processor, and by far the best battery-life of all PPCs for less than $300.
I've looked at its specs; love the price and it looks very good but it's too bulky for me: if it's too big I won't bring it with me, and if I don't carry it with me I won't use it...

If you haven't already done so, go to a local computer store and compare the screen between the Toshiba and any of the following: HP1910, iPaq39xx/54xx, Viewsonic V35.
I've searched the web for these models, and came to the following conclusions:
HP1910: excellent price but too low on memory (32MB)
iPaq: the iPaq's in general have always seemed too large to me
Viewsonic: can't buy them in Spain

If I can get my hands on any of them I'll try them out of course, but on the paper the e330 still seems to be the most interesting option for me (after I've checked the support issue, obviously....).

Another idea: how about the PocketGear 2030 - any opinions? The CPU is on the lower side (200) but does it make that much of a difference? It's extremely small and light.

(BTW Fzara, I appreciate the info about some of the PPC oddities...)

Michel.P

[alcdroid]

Michel,

I have had my tosh e330 for about a month now coming from a sony clie s500 and I have to say that I am extremely happy with it. I miss the size of the clie, but the cost vs features of the e330 can't be beat IMHO. It is smaller than the Dell Axim, and has more usable RAM than the Viewsonic V35 and H1910. As it is, I haven't bought any SD card yet but I still have a large ebook (5+Mb), several MP3s, and quite a few apps installed.

Speaking for the stability, a couple of days after I got it, it hanged and I had to do a hard reset. Never knew what happened, because the problem never came back (knock on wood!). I did maybe 4 or 5 soft resets since then for various reasons...sometimes because some apps require a soft reset to uninstall.

Performance has been great with no hitches so far with MP3 and movie playback. Battery life is as expected, but not really an issue for me since I place it on the cradle to recharge every night, a habit of mine even when I had the clie.

I guess my only complaint with it is the slipcover, which, after only a couple of weeks, already showed signs of wear.

Hope this information was useful. Cheers!

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Which PPC do you have?
I went from a Palm V (10 months) to a Casio EM500 (11 months) to an iPaq 3835 (12 months). Because my iPaq 3835 went in and out of repair for several weeks (at the end of 1 year of usage), HP replaced it with a brand new 3870 which is what I use now.

I've searched the web for these models, and came to the following conclusions:
HP1910: excellent price but too low on memory (32MB)
iPaq: the iPaq's in general have always seemed too large to me
Viewsonic: can't buy them in Spain
Actually the HP1910 has 64MB of memory but because of the type of RAM that they use only 46MB is available (the remaining RAM is used by the OS). The Viewsonic is worse with only about 36-38MB that is available.

I'm not trying to steer you away from the Toshiba, but the strengths that people discuss on the HP1910 is not the price but the size (it's about as small as a Palm V), weight (even lighter than the Palm V), along with the beautiful back-lit reflective screen which many say is the best in the industry. The downside is that the SD slot is not I/O compatible which means you can only use SD memory and not other SD accessories (which aren't widely available anyway). Also the small amount of ROM will limit you from updating its OS (I think it only has 16MB ROM).

Good luck on your choice.

[Janak Parekh]

Thats when you have an application loaded on your Palm OS, either with XMaster or some other app, that has poorly written code.

However, how many times has your PPC frozen up on you, with Pocket Plus installed, and the Dell Switcher bar on the taskbar
Wait a second: you're saying if there's a poorly coded app on the Palm, and then you turn around and have custom apps installed on the PPC? :?

By the way, I've never had that problem.

I think this is alot more ridiculous than the "fatal error" that you try to bomb the Palm with.
I disagree. On my old Palms, I had fatal errors that required a hard reset about twice. I can't remember the last time that happened to me on PPC.

Also, battery life im sure would be much more on a Palm rather than a PPC, however, you're also not doing video testing on your Palm ;)
No - I think the Dell Axim has better battery life than the new color Sony units.

Also, to the person who said soft-resetting is annoying. Its the fact that you simply HAVE to soft-reset, is what bothers me.
You don't have to if you don't use software that triggers soft-resets. Even with my heavily loaded Pocket PC, I almost never soft-reset; maybe twice a month, and those are usually because of known problems with the Compaq Bluetooth driver on the 3870. And it is far from annoying, it's not like rebooting Windows 95 which took over a minute on old PCs.

Again, this is exactly what I mean of a double standard with the Palm and the PPC. One flames another platform, only for their benefit. Please, please, please, mostly everyone wants two sides to a story, not just one side.
If you want a true evaluation, try comparing a stock PPC to a stock Palm, with no apps installed on either side, for stability.

--janak

[Fzara]

I dont know whats going on with my PPC. It seems to occasionally be stuck on the pw screen when I input the last digit of my pw.

Im simply trying to say that a simple operation on the PPC crashes the OS, (my pers. exp. with the pw. sn.) , whereas it requires a special operation from the Palm OS to make it crash.

About the fatal errors with the Palm. DO you recall what app you were using, which made you hard-reset your device? I have never had to hard reset the Palm M500.

About the battery life, compared to the Axim. I've read that the TT from Palm has better battery life. Why? Well, I've read that because its using a special clocked down processor, running at 175mhz, and the fact that its Palm OS 5, the battery is much better. I dont remember the exact article, but I read it from PalmSource's employee on PIC. A quick search should bring it up.

[seanturner]

About the battery life, compared to the Axim. I've read that the TT from Palm has better battery life. Why? Well, I've read that because its using a special clocked down processor, running at 175mhz

Well, if you clock down a processor of course its gonna take less battery power... But, you loose a lot of creativity power when you do so (although you don't notice it as much in the palm because there is no multitasking)

[Janak Parekh]

I dont know whats going on with my PPC. It seems to occasionally be stuck on the pw screen when I input the last digit of my pw.
Are you sure it's not your Pocket PC or software on it? Like I've said, I've never had this problem, and I use the 4-digit password every day.

About the fatal errors with the Palm. DO you recall what app you were using, which made you hard-reset your device? I have never had to hard reset the Palm M500.
No, because I used Palm devices for about 3-4 years, and my last one was already 2.5 years ago. I do know that one of the devices was the Qualcomm pdQ, which introduced some problems. TealLock may have been one of them, although that app has been updated maybe 30 times since I last used it. ;)

My point is, one's experience does not make a conclusive answer.

About the battery life, compared to the Axim. I've read that the TT from Palm has better battery life.
Well, that's why I didn't mention the TT, but rather the Sony devices. Palm is cagey about battery life ratings anyway... and the TT is so expensive, it's a different class of device. I honestly don't have anecdotal experience with the TT's battery.

--janak

[Michel]

Hello All,

First, let me thank you once again for all your replies, I really need them. Things are finally becoming clear and I'm close to a decision now.

A couple of questions have arised though, and I just wanted to consult with you people:

1) I believe I've read that when you connect the PPC to a desktop computer (for synching, I guess...), you see it on your desktop as just another drive: is that really what happens?

2) If so, can I drag and drop ANY apps/files to my PPC on the desktop(e.g. zip, pdf, exe-files, etc....)? (In other words, would it work as a portable hard drive?).


As I side note, I've decided to go for the PocketGear 2030 - ekkies's warning on Toshiba's lack of support made me think twice (+ the 2030 is smaller, lighter and virtually has the same specs).

Thank you
Michel.P

[seanturner]

Hello All,



1) I believe I've read that when you connect the PPC to a desktop computer (for synching, I guess...), you see it on your desktop as just another drive: is that really what happens?

2) If so, can I drag and drop ANY apps/files to my PPC on the desktop(e.g. zip, pdf, exe-files, etc....)? (In other words, would it work as a portable hard drive?).



Thank you
Michel.P

1. Yes, you get an application in your system tray which keeps it synced up with your computer. And, in My Computer you get a thing which will allow you to drag and drop files to your PPC. Now, some of them, like word documents, it will automatically convert to the pocket word format, others, like mp3 files, it will do no conversion. You can manually specify what conversions, if any, you want done.

2. Yes, you can, although with only around 64MB of RAM, you don't have much space to play with and it can be a little hard to get those files off if you don't ahve some sort of wireless connectivity built in.

[Janak Parekh]

2. Yes, you can, although with only around 64MB of RAM, you don't have much space to play with and it can be a little hard to get those files off if you don't ahve some sort of wireless connectivity built in.
One minor addendum: if you have a flash memory card, it'll also appear through the Mobile Device icon in My Computer. It's certainly not fast, but it's very useful.

--janak

[Kati Compton]

2. Yes, you can, although with only around 64MB of RAM, you don't have much space to play with and it can be a little hard to get those files off if you don't ahve some sort of wireless connectivity built in.
One minor addendum: if you have a flash memory card, it'll also appear through the Mobile Device icon in My Computer. It's certainly not fast, but it's very useful.


As will the built-in storage (at least in the case of an Axim). The extra ROM space. (It's a nice 22MB of storage on the 400MHz Axim, ~5 on the 300MHz).

I know it's tempting to get a very small device when moving from Palm to PPC. And that is an important factor. But as a happy Axim owner, I also think it's important to consider why you're moving to PPC, and which unit is best suited towards that reason. The e330 may be everything you need (I don't know), but if you want to use CF for storing mp3's and such (which are much cheaper than SD at this point), Axim's nice. Or if you want slightly smaller than the Axim but with WiFi built in, you can look at the e740 which is also dual-slot but has much worse battery life (compared to Axim) and a not-as-stunning screen.

For me, I decided to rank my needs and select based on that. Try playing with this tool at Dave's PDA (http://www.davespda.com/resources/recommend/index.htm). It doesn't have battery life or screen type (reflective/transflective) as factors, but it might be helpful regardless - it was for me.

While size was important to me, I found it was less important than other features.

- Dr. Ruth

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

While size was important to me, I found it was less important than other features.

- Dr. Ruth
:rofl:

CORNY!!!!

[Michel]

I know it's tempting to get a very small device when moving from Palm to PPC. And that is an important factor. But as a happy Axim owner, I also think it's important to consider why you're moving to PPC, and which unit is best suited towards that reason. The e330 may be everything you need (I don't know), but if you want to use CF for storing mp3's and such (which are much cheaper than SD at this point), Axim's nice. Or if you want slightly smaller than the Axim but with WiFi built in, you can look at the e740 which is also dual-slot but has much worse battery life (compared to Axim) and a not-as-stunning screen.

While size was important to me, I found it was less important than other features.

- Dr. Ruth

Good point kati42.
mp3 is important to me, but I just assumed that I'll be able to use that no matter what device I finally pick up, I haven't contemplated the difference between CF, SD, etc (truth be told I don't even know the difference between them....).
I discarded the Axim because of its size, but I know it's excellent value and if you say it does a good job with mp3..... I'll look into it again. Btw, how many hours of use do get in with your Axim?

Michel.P

[Kati Compton]

Good point kati42.
mp3 is important to me, but I just assumed that I'll be able to use that no matter what device I finally pick up, I haven't contemplated the difference between CF, SD, etc (truth be told I don't even know the difference between them....).

You can listen to mp3's no matter which device. The difference is how many you can actually FIT on the device. Usually, hard-core mp3 listeners want some sort of expansion memory (Secure Digital (same as MMC, basically) or Compact Flash). SD is smaller in physical size (though can achieve nearly the same capacity) as CF, which is why I think slightly more PDA manufacturers use it (iPaq, Toshiba non-dual slot, etc). But CF is cheaper, and can be shared with a wider variety of devices, which is it's plus for me. It's also nice to pop the CF card out of my camera and into the PDA to get a somewhat bigger view of the pictures...

CFs are cheaper for the equivalent MB. For example, clicking on CF Cards under Price Grabber on the front page of this board, I see $75 after rebate for a 256MB CF card. Clicking on SD Cards, I see $99.38 (gotta get that extra $.38...) for a 256MB SD card. There may be occasional exceptions at the lower MB, but if you look at 512MB ones, you'll see a very very big difference in price. I don't have the $ for a 512MB SD, but I do for a 512MB CF.

But you did list size as a factor. So I would go to a store that has a variety of PPCs and test them. Keep the features in mind, but you also shouldn't necessarily ignore any "love at first sight" feelings you have. Sometimes it's nice to not be COMPLETELY practical. :) If you compare how several different ones feel in the hand, you'll have a better idea of just what exactly IS too big. Write down the ones that you felt were comfortable in size (good fit in the hand, too... there can be such a thing as too small...), and the ones that weren't. Then go back to the computer and see how the dimensions compare to the Axim. Depending on where you're located, there also may be a Dell Kiosk at a mall... There aren't any around where I am, though.


I discarded the Axim because of its size, but I know it's excellent value and if you say it does a good job with mp3..... I'll look into it again. Btw, how many hours of use do get in with your Axim?


It is towards the "bigger" end, no getting around that. Not because it's bigger than PPCs that came before, but because the new units are just getting smaller.

As for battery, I'm always pretty close to my desk, so I'm not a good person to ask. I've never gotten a low battery warning. I figure I'll know better after I travel later this month with it... It is a LOT though. For example, I've heard several people saying there's no point in using a brightness setting lower than the max to save battery time.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

From a PPC standpoint, the HP1910 is ultimate of small. It's both the smallest and the lightest of all PPCs (roughly the size of a PalmV).

It only accepts SD though, and if you decide you want 512MB of add-on memory, as Kati mentioned, that comes with a cost. You can get 512MB CF for less than $200 but 512MB SD costs over $300.

Keep in mind that for devices that do accept both SD and CF, many people like to use the SD slot for memory and save the CF slot for I/O devices (WiFi, Bluetooth, Modem, Ethernet, etc.).

[Kati Compton]

Keep in mind that for devices that do accept both SD and CF, many people like to use the SD slot for memory and save the CF slot for I/O devices (WiFi, Bluetooth, Modem, Ethernet, etc.).

My longer-range plans is to use the SD card for stuff that I always want, and the CF slot for stuff that I can swap in/out. So important files, maybe some programs, etc. on the SD card, and then a giant CF card for my mp3's, which I can swap with a wireless card (don't need to mp3 and wireless simultaneously....) or a VGA card or whatever.

Don't know how well this plan works, as I'm not there yet, but there it is. SD for static things, CF for dynamic things.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

My longer-range plans is to use the SD card for stuff that I always want, and the CF slot for stuff that I can swap in/out. So important files, maybe some programs, etc. on the SD card, and then a giant CF card for my mp3's, which I can swap with a wireless card (don't need to mp3 and wireless simultaneously....) or a VGA card or whatever.
Yeah, I'm actually considering that same option. I already have a 256MB SD. Combined with 64kbps Ogg files, it works rather well, but of course I could always use more space and if you consider the additional data files that I put on my SD, well... you get the picture...

So I'm weighing a 512MB CF vs 512MB SD. If I go with the CF, I do what you're planning to do. If I go with SD, then my 512 SD becomes my main card and my 256 goes into my Panasonic SD-to-CF converter and serves as secondary memory. I would also be better protected for the future if I decide to buy a PPC that supports SD only...

Decisions... decisions...

[ipaq38vette]

I would seriously consider converting your mp3 collection to wma. Why? wma sounds so much better than mp3 at low bitrates. wma is considerably smaller than mp3 so you can fit more music on a sd card. I have a 128kbps mp3 that takes up 6 MB of space on my sd and a 96kbps wma that not only sounds better but takes up 3.5 MB and the songs are the same length.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I would seriously consider converting your mp3 collection to wma. Why? wma sounds so much better than mp3 at low bitrates.
By converting, I assume you mean re-ripping from the original source? Converting directly from one lossy compression format to another ALWAYS results in less quality. I wouldn't recommend this unless you're trying to save space and the original source is no longer available to you.

wma is considerably smaller than mp3 so you can fit more music on a sd card.
Ahhh... originally, I did the 128k of mp3 and later went with the 96k of WMA.

As it turns out, 64k of OGG is better than both IMO!! So unless you're specifically trying to take advantage of WMP specific features (or as Kati mentioned trying to maintain compatibility with external MP3 players), I say go for OGG!!

[Kati Compton]

By the way, a VBR mp3 will sound much better than a normal mp3 at the same bitrate. Comparable to WMA I'd say.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

By the way, a VBR mp3 will sound much better than a normal mp3 at the same bitrate. Comparable to WMA I'd say.
At less than 128 I assume. IMO, CBR MP3 is still superior to WMA at 128k and up.

Another nice thing about Ogg... it is by nature a VBR format, which PMVP has no problems with...

[ipaq38vette]

Yeah, but how can I convert to OGG for free? And if I convert, I can no longer play my music on my desktop with WMP, I would have to save the original source file and end up with duplicates. I like having a library of WMAs riped from CDs and being able to move them over to my PPC whenever without conversion.

[Kati Compton]

Yeah, but how can I convert to OGG for free? And if I convert, I can no longer play my music on my desktop with WMP, I would have to save the original source file and end up with duplicates. I like having a library of WMAs riped from CDs and being able to move them over to my PPC whenever without conversion.

If you are not willing to / interested in switching to a different player on the desktop, it sounds like WMA is the way to go for you.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Yeah, but how can I convert to OGG for free? And if I convert, I can no longer play my music on my desktop with WMP, I would have to save the original source file and end up with duplicates. I like having a library of WMAs riped from CDs and being able to move them over to my PPC whenever without conversion.
If you're interested, OGG can be ripped with two different freeware rippers which are both popular with this board, dBpowerAMP (http://www.dbpoweramp.com) and CDex (http://www.cdex.n3.net).

WMP won't play oggs but Winamp (http://www.winamp.com) will, but I won't deny that WMP (PC version) is a nice program, so if you would like to stick with WMP on your PC, then WMA is your best option. But if you're at all curious, try ripping an OGG file at a very low bitrate and then listen...

[Michel]

Hello All, me again...

So I've looked into things, and these are the conlusions:

Axim: isn't available yet in Europe, but the estimated price I've seen is around $800.... way over my head...!

e330: hung on me when I entered the 4-digit pass, just as someone else described here in this thread. Also, I read that the quality of ClearType is quite bad, and unfortunately I must confirm that.

PocketGear 2030: had a look at it this afternoon and played around with it for while. With a 200 Mhz CPU it's a little slower than the e330 (300 Mhz), but I liked the screen better (better than the 2060 in fact, the screen was just too dark even with maximum light), and it costs $100 less than the e330 (and even so it will cost me $480: the prices in Europe are outragous... :( ).
But seeing it was a bit slower, I wanted to ask if it's posible to use a 200 Mhz unit for other tasks (like reading, entering data, etc.) while reproducing mp3, without any interruption of the music? Or is that too intensive for a 200 CPU? If so, what would the minimum CPU requirement be?
Also, I would like to ask any users out there how many hours of use they get with their 2030? Can I expect to be able to use it for up to 3h each day (including mp3 and reading) without having to recharge?

Again, many thanks to you all!
Michel.P

[spursdude]

PocketGear 2030: had a look at it this afternoon and played around with it for while. With a 200 Mhz CPU it's a little slower than the e330 (300 Mhz), but I liked the screen better (better than the 2060 in fact, the screen was just too dark even with maximum light), and it costs $100 less than the e330 (and even so it will cost me $480: the prices in Europe are outragous... :( ).
But seeing it was a bit slower, I wanted to ask if it's posible to use a 200 Mhz unit for other tasks (like reading, entering data, etc.) while reproducing mp3, without any interruption of the music? Or is that too intensive for a 200 CPU? If so, what would the minimum CPU requirement be?
Also, I would like to ask any users out there how many hours of use they get with their 2030? Can I expect to be able to use it for up to 3h each day (including mp3 and reading) without having to recharge?

Again, many thanks to you all!
Michel.P

What the heck is a PocketGear 2030? It's something I haven't seen in the US, nor have I ever heard of it. I'm assuming from what you say that it's a PPC with a 200mhz CPU...but I've never heard of it.

A 200mhz CPU should be all right for listening to music and doing a few other non-intensive tasks. My Audiovox Maestro has a 206mhz Strong Arm processor, and it can sorta handle listening to music and playing other games and such.

As for battery, I don't know about the PocketGear because I've never heard of it. But, if it's like most PPCs, you will probably get 4-5 hours out of it with normal use, perhaps. And, if you're listening to music, you can always turn the screen off in Windows Media Player. (Tools>Settings>buttons, and assign a button to Screen Toggle). You'll find that turning the screen off saves a lot of battery life.

Enjoy.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

What the heck is a PocketGear 2030? It's something I haven't seen in the US, nor have I ever heard of it. I'm assuming from what you say that it's a PPC with a 200mhz CPU...but I've never heard of it.
PocketGear I believe belongs to NEC. It came out nearly a year ago (shortly after the HP Jornada 56x's and iPaq 38xx's) but I don't believe it ever made it to US retail stores (though I've seen it in Japan and Germany). Many at that time felt it was a good device and that its main disadvantage was that it only carried 32MB of RAM instead of the 64MB that both the Jornada 568 and iPaq 38xx carried. You're right about the processor. XScale hadn't come out yet, so that was the legacy StrongARM.

[Janak Parekh]

spursdude, check this article (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6491) for more information on the PocketGear 2030. It's an European OEM unit that closely resembles the NEC MobilePro 200e, which also looks a lot like the Viewsonic v35. See this article (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7051) for a review of a very similar European unit.

--janak

[Michel]

What the heck is a PocketGear 2030? It's something I haven't seen in the US, nor have I ever heard of it. I'm assuming from what you say that it's a PPC with a 200mhz CPU...but I've never heard of it.
PocketGear I believe belongs to NEC. It came out nearly a year ago (shortly after the HP Jornada 56x's and iPaq 38xx's) but I don't believe it ever made it to US retail stores (though I've seen it in Japan and Germany). Many at that time felt it was a good device and that its main disadvantage was that it only carried 32MB of RAM instead of the 64MB that both the Jornada 568 and iPaq 38xx carried. You're right about the processor. XScale hadn't come out yet, so that was the legacy StrongARM.

Sorry guys, I assumed the 2030 was available in the US as well, that's why I didn't give any more details on it.
It's a Packard Bell (or NEC nowadays it seems), it has a 200Mhz XScale CPU, a 950mAh Li-ion battery, and it actually does have 64MB of RAM.
For more details on the unit, have a look at the following URL:
PackardBell UK (http://www.packardbell.co.uk/products/node1351.asp)

And thanks Janak for the links, I'll definately have a look at that review!

[Jude]

WMP won't play oggs...

But WMP CAN play Ogg files, even AVI files with Ogg audio. Pretty well in fact. Just install the Ogg DirectShow filters that you can download from here http://tobias.everwicked.com/oggds.htm

[BTS]

- app availibility (thousands available for the Palm OS)

Here is the deal with this statement. When the Palm folks (I'm personally not against Palm, either - I own 3 different models) were talking about the 1000s of apps they were right. The problem is that many of those apps are what end users *might* consider sub-par. Also, as an early Palm adopter, what attracted me to the device was that the software was in many cases free for very low in price. The price advantage has now disappeared.

I think you're on a level playing field now between PPC and Palm with regard to available apps. Don't let that arguement scare you from looking at PPC.

[Michel]

I think you're on a level playing field now between PPC and Palm with regard to available apps.

I am aware of that now; since my first post I've done some (a lot) of investigation, and I've seen that there are plenty of apps available for PPC - www.freewareppc.com (http://www.freewareppc.com) is proof of that (though I'm not sure how many of those apps will actually work on X-Scale...).
But my point is that I'm now not worried about the app-availibilty.

[Janak Parekh]

(though I'm not sure how many of those apps will actually work on X-Scale...)
Hmm... as long as the apps support Pocket PC 2002, or at least an ARM port of Pocket PC 2000/WinCE, it should run just fine. XScale should be fully backwards-compatible. You may have issues only with the really old software.

--janak

[Michel]

After some time now I have finally made a decision: I'm getting the Dell Axim Advanced.
Thanks to this excellent site (the best) I found out that the Axim had finally been launched in Europe, and later that day the review on the Axim was published here. Thanks to that excellent review and some others on the net (including InfoSync's review) I ordered a unit on Dell's site that very same evening; they have a launching offer here in Spain, so the Axim will actually cost me LESS than the PackardBell 2030. Given the fact that the Axim clearly packs a bigger punch for the money the decision was quite easy. I just hope I won't be put off by its size (clearly bigger than the 2030).
Needless to say I anxious to get my hands on the Axim, and even more so coming from the world of Palm. I just hope I won't regret the switch.

I just wanted to thank this forum (and this site) and all of you people in this thread for your thoughts and input, it made all the difference!

Michel.P

[Joe Kornowski]

Consider that the current Dell Axim (while bigger) has a superior backlit reflective screen, 48MB ROM, more powerful XScale processor, and by far the best battery-life of all PPCs for less than $300.

I've owned a Palm III, IIIx, VIIx, Visor Deluxe and Visor Platinum with Visorphone. I just bought the Dell Axim X5 -- for hi-res screen, battery life (and because battery is externally replaceable), and price. I have been thrilled with the value and feature-functionality for the price. No regrets.

[Konsole]

im happy with my hp ipaq 1910, its great w/ a 256mb SD.

It does most of the things I want but I am waiting for:
HP rom patch to enable SDIO
WLAN SD card

Then, I can use AIM, SSH, IRC and use the web applications the I write on it.

If that can not or does not happen within a few monthes I am just going to buy an dell and use that for wifi. I really think the size is important. I can carry my 1910 everywhere. Everyone complains about the battery life on them, but if you dont need to play video i can leave the cpu at 200mhz and just use a lower screen brightness (which is still brighter than most PPC's) the battery lasts most of the day. I am back at my desk at least a few times a day, i can then plug it in for a bit, sync it and such and its good to go again. I am also ording an extra battery soon.

ok, ill shutup now.

[PantheraLeo2k3]

I have had a Palm IIIe for two or three years and I can count all of the times I have had to soft reset on my fingers. I have never had to hard reset and the only time I lost data was when I didn't replace the AAA's in time.

On the app issue, there are many worthless apps for Palm OS and I am sure there are some for Pocket PC. As long as anyone with a bit of know-how and a copy of CodeWarrior and a Geocities account can make and distribute a Palm OS program, they will. I do not know about the ease/difficulty of getting development tools for pocket PC. And, the latest version of QuickOffice Premier, 7.0, supports loading Word/Excel/Powerpoint files from and SD card.
Don't take this as a flame. If anyone is obsessed with a particular platform, they probably won't keep up with the news of the other (Quickoffice release)

[TheNewSteve]

[quote=Fzara]And it is far from annoying, it's not like rebooting Windows 95 which took over a minute on old PCs.

:(

My PC still takes about 5-10 min to boot up. Stay away from eMachines!

All my PPC soft resets are from either accidentally double tapping in Magic Button, software install, screen rotation (which i rarely use) and me doing something dumb like pulling out the wifi card when the unit is off or the SD card or something like that. Very few program errors that I've had.

-Steve