Handspring and RIM getting together?

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1040-980085.html?tag=fd_top">http://news.com.com/2100-1040-980085.html?tag=fd_top</a><br /><br />"The Toronto Star on Friday quoted Handspring President Ed Colligan as saying that it was logical for his company's Treo handheld and other competing wireless devices to use e-mail software developed by RIM, which is best known for its BlackBerry two-way e-mail device. As companies that make personal digital assistants add more wireless features to their equipment they will want proven technology, such as RIM's, to handle wireless e-mail, he told the newspaper."<br /><br />Sort of makes me wonder if this is a first step to a merger. Neither are doing that well. RIM is a media darling, but the truth is, HP sells more iPAQs in 6 months than RIM has sold Blackberrys period. Handspring has fallen into the "other" line of every market share report I've seen in the past 15 months. Of all the complaints I hear about the Treo, it is its lackluster email. The RIM's biggest shortcomings is PIM. Seems like a perfect union.<br /><br />"In separate comments to Canada's National Post newspaper, Colligan said he expects consolidation in the market for mobile handheld devices, especially if the U.S. economy does not rebound soon. Colligan was in Toronto to visit Rogers Wireless, "If the fallout takes two years more, then there will be some consolidation,'' the paper quoted him as saying."

[Janak Parekh]

Seems like a perfect union.
... except that there's no promise of profitability in such a merger. :?

Seeing as how long it took to release a GPRS update for the Treos, I'm not optimistic on the two moving quickly enough.

--janak

[bdegroodt]

Yeah...It would make sense if at least one of the 2 had it together. I think RIM is closer than Handspring, but that's pretty much a moot point. Soon integrated keyboards and always on email will be integrated into most of the devices (I give it less than a year before the first PPC ones make it on the scene.). Then the RIM and Handspring advantage are pretty much done. Good is already moving in on the market of RIM and that's going to do nothing more than divide the same market into 2 or more players so that neither will be able to survive. Kind of like how Ross Perot killed President Bush (Sr.) bid for reelection.

[Janak Parekh]

... and, to top it all off, RIM is releasing GSM/GPRS and CDMA/1xRTT versions of their devices this year.

I'd love to see RIM's always-on technology continue, but I don't think this is going to be the savior.

--janak

[icatar]

I can't wait till always on email for the PPC. Then I can throw my Blackberry away!

[bdeli]

RIM launched the GSM/GPRS and the CDMA versions last October. I happend to get a 6710 for a client of mine - and though I must say I did like the features (on paper), the unit did not perform well - what can you do on an 8MB Device....running Java?

The 6710 was slow, lots of out of memory errors and not so good GSM coverage. Ended up returning the unit.

As for the news that RIM might buy Handspring, I was reading somewhere last week that PalmSource might buy Handspring.

[GadgetDave]

I can't wait till always on email for the PPC. Then I can throw my Blackberry away!

Me too! I want one of the PPC makers to buy RIM for the technology.

[HOLLYWOOD_]

I agree with you all. We want "always-on" email on a PPC with an integrated thumboard in a small device. :D

[sweetpete]

I can't wait till always on email for the PPC. Then I can throw my Blackberry away!

Me too! I want one of the PPC makers to buy RIM for the technology.

You should try using Symmetry Pro (http://www.symmetrypro.com). Always on email for the PPC and the Treo.

[HOLLYWOOD_]

Need it to work for Corporate Email while on the go. I travel 50-75% of the time.

Also, I believe Symmetry Pro requires you to leave a computer on somewhere so your email can forward or something like that.

[sweetpete]

It does work with Exchange corporate email servers. Symmetry Pro does require a workstation, but they alos have a lightweight workgroup server intended for 10 users or less that removes that requirement.
Check out their website for Infowave Mobile Messaging. It is essentially Symmetry Pro running as a service and can be run on a workstation.

[bdegroodt]

You should try using Symmetry Pro (http://www.symmetrypro.com). Always on email for the PPC and the Treo.

What's the difference between that and pulling your email direct from the server? Doesn't seem to be much of a deal to me.

Besides, the always on email thing is more of a PPC software issue than the ability to pull it down wirelessly. Somehow, MS or an OEM needs to configure a PPC to go into a "standby" mode that won't suck your battery dead in less than 6 hours, but still pings for email on a constant basis.

GPRS will (For the most part) stay connected constantly, but if I keep my Ipaq on to maintain that connection all day, the battery is toast in hours (Even with the WMP screen trick.).

Cloaning the i705 concept with improvement (No 30 minute delays in checking for email.) would be a good start and a vibrating notification, and a GPRS rate plan that didn't cost a fortune for pinging your email server all day long.

[shawnc]

I agree with you all. We want "always-on" email on a PPC with an integrated thumboard in a small device. :D

Sounds like the Treo 300!

[HOLLYWOOD_]

My BlackBerry (Corporate IT deployed) can keep a charge for almost a full 28 days with alway-on email on 24-7 !!!!!!!!!! I hate the PIM functions on it, but I use them because I do not want to carry 2 devices around all the time. My PPC typically stays in the briefcase or in the car, while my BlackBerry is at my hip always.

[AirData]

All you guys sound like perfect candidates for the Treo 300. Anyone that wants good email should try SnapperMail. For SMS try TreoSMS. For multi IM try VeriChat.

Battery life is much better on the Treo 300 than the PocketPC. I have a iPaq with battery/pcmcia sleeve and AirCard 300. The batteries (2) on the PPC would die in about 4 to 5 hours. And the transfer rate was about 19kbs (actual 9.2kbs). The Treo gives me about 92kbps and lasts a couple of days. Works great with laptop at these speeds :)

But, most of all the Treo is a lot less hassle. I get much more work done on the Treo than the PPC...just like I get more work done on my Mac than my PC.

Just my 2¢ worth :) Flameproof suite is ON.

[bdegroodt]

...
But, most of all the Treo is a lot less hassle. I get much more work done on the Treo than the PPC...just like I get more work done on my Mac than my PC.

Just my 2¢ worth :)

I'm going to take the lazy way out here and just ask if you know...Does the Treo query your email server constantly or is it every x number of mintues? Also, do you know if there is an SSH client for Palm by chance?

Not that I'd switch, I feel pretty good about life with my current set-up, but I can still look :P

[Janak Parekh]

All you guys sound like perfect candidates for the Treo 300. Anyone that wants good email should try SnapperMail. For SMS try TreoSMS. For multi IM try VeriChat.
No, I want Blackberry-like functionality: push email to the device as soon as it's available, let me reply, even in the subway, and push email out as soon as you can. That's convenient. This is getting close, but it's still polling as far as I can tell; someone correct me if I'm wrong...

bdegroodt, yes, there are ssh clients for the Palm. I had one on my ancient pdQ years ago...

--janak

[bdegroodt]

No, I want Blackberry-like functionality: push email to the device as soon as it's available, let me reply, even in the subway, and push email out as soon as you can. That's convenient. This is getting close, but it's still polling as far as I can tell; someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Looks like it from the specs which state "3. One Button Mail Fetch
Get your Treo to fetch mail with a touch of a button without needing to even flip the lid with." Sounds like you have to initiate the request.


bdegroodt, yes, there are ssh clients for the Palm. I had one on my ancient pdQ years ago...

Thanks Janak. Not sure why I asked other than I really want to get that new 17" PowerBook and I don't want to use PocketMac and I'd like to convert one of my servers over to the OSX Server just to check out the user experience... Someday.

[HOLLYWOOD_]

No, I want Blackberry-like functionality: push email to the device as soon as it's available, let me reply, even in the subway, and push email out as soon as you can. That's convenient.

Exactly Janak. Well said. In addition, I want this functionality without having to leave a desktop computer on with an email redirector.

[bdegroodt]

Hmmm...Maybe MSFT can be the white knight in this merger and buy RIM :idea: That would give us all we are looking for without moving off the PPC platform.

On second thoughts, never mind. Can't be that much code jockey work to get done. I'm sure it's in the skunk works already at MSFT.

[sweetpete]

No, I want Blackberry-like functionality: push email to the device as soon as it's available, let me reply, even in the subway, and push email out as soon as you can. That's convenient.

Exactly Janak. Well said. In addition, I want this functionality without having to leave a desktop computer on with an email redirector.

In essence you are looking for Infowave Mobile Messaging server. It doesn't require a desktop email redirector, it is PUSH with both Palm and PPC Phone edition (requires the built-in SMS API's not available in regular PPC's) ... basically a Blackberry on a much better platform :lol:

[Janak Parekh]

In essence you are looking for Infowave Mobile Messaging server. It doesn't require a desktop email redirector, it is PUSH with both Palm and PPC Phone edition (requires the built-in SMS API's not available in regular PPC's) ... basically a Blackberry on a much better platform :lol:
Hmm. Does it break messages up over many SMS pieces, or does it send a magical SMS "wake up" message which then launches software that connects and downloads email? Either way, it's a bit of a hack; the real solution is via always-on GPRS/1xRTT.

In any case, when it can do "smart send", i.e., like the Blackberry where I hit "send" when I'm out of coverage and it automatically sends it when I'm back in coverage, I'll be very interested. I had checked out their site briefly, but it seems vague on details.

--janak

[sweetpete]

it uses the sms as a wake-up to retrieve the messages. if you already have a connection established then it uses it, and if you don't, it will establish whatever connection you want it to (GPRS, HCSD, dial-up, etc.). it can be used with always on gprs. they actively test with the treo and xda on grps accounts along with many other pda combos.

don't be fooled by blackberry. they do the same over a mobitex data channel. when a message comes in they essentially pinging the unit to retrieve the message.

with regards to your send question, you can compose a message whenever you want and it will send it whenever you have a connection. i am not positive off the top of my head if it will do it instantly after you regain your connection. anyway, they have a trial so it's worth checking out.

[Janak Parekh]

it uses the sms as a wake-up to retrieve the messages.
Cool, that's certainly the "right way".

don't be fooled by blackberry. they do the same over a mobitex data channel. when a message comes in they essentially pinging the unit to retrieve the message.
Oh, I know. I'm just looking at the new units, which have promise as they are GPRS/1xRTT. Admittedly, I don't know if they're always-on.

with regards to your send question, you can compose a message whenever you want and it will send it whenever you have a connection. i am not positive off the top of my head if it will do it instantly after you regain your connection. anyway, they have a trial so it's worth checking out.
Thanks for the info. I'll play with this if I end up with a PPC PE. :)

--janak

[sweetpete]

Thanks for the info. I'll play with this if I end up with a PPC PE. :)


no problem. one last thing i forgot is that it works with connected ppc's (either through BT or some sort of wireless cf card/aircard/etc.), but unfortunately you don't get the true "push." in that case it reverts to a time based pull that will check in a set interval.

[Janak Parekh]

no problem. one last thing i forgot is that it works with connected ppc's (either through BT or some sort of wireless cf card/aircard/etc.), but unfortunately you don't get the true "push." in that case it reverts to a time based pull that will check in a set interval.
I noticed that. But it defeats the purpose, as I already use IMAP, which has been good enough for my current purposes. :)

--janak

[gfunkmagic]

I'm going to take the lazy way out here and just ask if you know...Does the Treo query your email server constantly or is it every x number of mintues? Also, do you know if there is an SSH client for Palm by chance?


The treo can be set to query manually or at any interval specified be it evry 15 min, 30 min or etc. THus its more fetch than push...