PPC: organize files within files within files? [Archive]

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01-01-2003, 10:34 PM

I'm trying to decide on a new PDA. I've had a Visor Deluxe (Palm OS) for 18 months now. This is a very naive question, but do Pocket PCs support organizing Word (& Excel & PowerPoint, etc.) files within files within files, etc.? I've not been sucessful in finding this information on the web. All of my files on my PC use this organizational tool, e.g. up to six or seen levels of files within files

I'm considering a new PDA, be it a Sony NX, Tungsten, or moving to something like a Dell Axim or Ipaq 1910. I have concerns about system stability (crashes) with PPC.

I posted this question on PDABuzz, but have not heard anything yet. So I decided to post here, for my second post on any kind of discussion list. If PPC does this, is it fairly easy to set up, and can it easily be used with extended memory in an SD/CF type of format?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Ed Hansberry

01-01-2003, 10:42 PM

Not sure what you mean files within files.

The Pocket PC works like your desktop with one limitation.

All of your documents go in \My Documents\. You can store documents there or one level deeper. So,

My Documents\memo.doc is ok.
My Documents\Business\Timesheet.doc is ok
My Documents\Vacation\Rates.doc is ok
My Documents\Business\ClientA\Billings.doc won't fly.

You can also store them on the Storage Card. THe PPC makes this 99.9% transparent for you, so it is really easy to co.

Also, as to crashes. For some reason people equate Win95 stability with Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows CE based devices. All 4 of the latter are 100% 32bit operating systems with true preemptive multithreading, memory protection, etc. That doesn't meant they don't crash, but you can go weeks without soft resetting (rebooting - a 5 second process) your Pocket PC, depending on the apps installed.

msprague

01-01-2003, 11:14 PM

I created a Word doc on the desktop with an embedded Word doc and when I opened it in Pocket Word the embedded file was not visible. Unfortunately, it looks like that will not work for you.

Ed Hansberry

01-01-2003, 11:17 PM

I created a Word doc on the desktop with an embedded Word doc and when I opened it in Pocket Word the embedded file was not visible. Unfortunately, it looks like that will not work for you.
Ahh...OLE. No, the apps on CE do not support OLE/ActiveX/whatever they call it now.

01-02-2003, 12:17 AM

Ed Hansberry

01-02-2003, 12:25 AM

Ed,

You hit it on the head (files within files). I guess on Windows I can go at least 7 levels, each level adding a layer of organization for me (as better shown in your example). So does this mean, not counting "My Documents", that I can create two more levels of files, but not three? I don't know about embedded documents, I really meant what Ed described. Can Palms do this? Are there any particular File Managers that allow this?

Ok, a PPC uses a FAT32 filesystem, just like Windows 98/ME. So it can go multiple levels deep. However, the apps can only see My Documents and one level below. So files in that 2nd level below are "hidden" from the apps.

The built in file manager can see those sub folders. I suppose you could use that to tap on the file and open it if you really wanted to.

Palm doesn't have a file system. Everything is category based, and you only have 15 categories. You could think of those folders below My Documents as a category if you like, except you can have them on storage cards and the quantity is unlimited.

I guess I'll have to really consider the 1910 and Axim more seriously than I intended. Screen quality is important to me, after 18 months with the Visor. I think the 1910 has a reflective screen and the Axim a transflective screen? I know those aren't the best of terms to use, but are they difference technologies, and can dust be an issue with the 1910 if it has a reflective screen?
Both are quite nice. The Axim will be just a bit larger than your Visor. The 1910 is very close to a Palm V in size. The Axim is transflective. Not sure about the 1910. Might ask someone in the HP iPAQ forums that has one.

Either way, you will not be sorry. Both are fantastic devices, just very different markets. The Axim, with dual slots, larger RAM (either 32/64MB ROM/RAM or 48/64MB, depending on whether you get the $200 or $300 model supports a variety of modems, network cards and other Compact Flash expansion, as well as SD memory cards.. The $300 1910 has 16MB ROM and about 48MB of usable RAM. It also has one SD memory slot, but man is it tiny. :D

Janak Parekh

01-02-2003, 12:27 AM

Both are quite nice. The Axim will be just a bit larger than your Visor. The 1910 is very close to a Palm V in size. The Axim is transflective. Not sure about the 1910. Might ask someone in the HP iPAQ forums that has one.
Both are 3.5" transflective displays. Both are very nice, but people who've seen the 1910 say it's the very best among the Pocket PC's.

BTW, I do deeper folders fairly often, and while I can't see them in Pocket Word, I do use File Explorer to open up the files. I do this mostly with non-active content (e.g., I keep bills in a shallow directory, and then "Billed" bills are in a deeper one).

--janak

Ed Hansberry

01-02-2003, 12:38 AM

Both are 3.5" transflective displays. Both are very nice, but people who've seen the 1910 say it's the very best among the Pocket PC's.
Cool. Except for the XDA Pocket PC phone, are there any reflective screens being sold (not counting discontinued devices like the 3800) or have they all gone to transflective?

Janak Parekh

01-02-2003, 01:55 AM

Cool. Except for the XDA Pocket PC phone, are there any reflective screens being sold (not counting discontinued devices like the 3800) or have they all gone to transflective?
Sure - I don't think any Toshibas are transflective yet.

--janak

Kati Compton

01-02-2003, 01:59 AM

Sure - I don't think any Toshibas are transflective yet.

I'm pretty sure you're right. The 550g isn't. The 330 isn't. The 740 isn't. Don't know about the upcoming ones.

01-02-2003, 02:29 AM

Based on this information about PPC, I'm leaning much more towards a PPC than the Palm products I was planning on getting. I guess I should have written about Directory structure rather than the cryptic "files within files" stuff.

I don't need wireless functions yet, so the iPAQ 1910 is looking pretty good (SD slot is not SDIO, I think). Form factors into the equation significantly for me. Also, getting the 1910 through Staples might be simpler than getting a Dell, if my University can pick up at least part of the bill (a blanket account with Staples).

I have a lot of information in the "Memo" of my Visor, using just about all 40 categories allowed, and lots of info tidbits within each of these memos. Does anyone know if the transfer of this info to a PPC will go smoothly? Are there any tricks?

You people have been incredibly informative/helpful.

Thanks

Ed Hansberry

01-02-2003, 02:41 AM

I don't need wireless functions yet, so the iPAQ 1910 is looking pretty good (SD slot is not SDIO, I think). Form factors into the equation significantly for me. Also, getting the 1910 through Staples might be simpler than getting a Dell, if my University can pick up at least part of the bill (a blanket account with Staples).
Don't take this to the bank, but I've been told that the SD port of the 1910 is SDIO capable, HP just needs to write a driver.

I have a lot of information in the "Memo" of my Visor, using just about all 40 categories allowed, and lots of info tidbits within each of these memos. Does anyone know if the transfer of this info to a PPC will go smoothly? Are there any tricks?

I rarely use Notes on the Pocket PC, other than for voice recordings which I delete within a few hrs or days. I only have about 10 text/drawing notes. I understand people use HPCNotes from www.phatware.com for serious Notes usage. I will say that on the PPC, for some reason, you cannot group built in notes by category. :? I split my "notes" type info between eWallet (when I need encrypted security) and ListPro (when I need notes related and/or subordinate to each other), both from www.iliumsoft.com. I think both of those apps come on the 1910 trialware CD.

Janak Parekh

01-02-2003, 02:54 AM

I will say that on the PPC, for some reason, you cannot group built in notes by category. :?
That's only half-true, Ed. The Notes applet on the PPC does support categories, but Outlook on the desktop doesn't (it just mushes them into the title). So, when you move your notes over, you might lose the categorization, but you can put it back. In any case, as Ed suggested, you might want to consider more full-featured tools for extensive notes handling, or use Pocket Word documents, which are trivially categorizable.

--janak

01-02-2003, 04:45 AM

I'll plan on trying those Notes programs Ed mentioned. Seems I've gone from leaning strongly towards a NX70 or Tungsten T to an iPAQ 1910 within a few hours (based on joining this forum today), after driving my wife nuts about this constantly over the past month. With the lower cost of the 1910 I should be able to initate a purchase next week. I'm sure I'll have many more questions after that. The choice now seems to inherently make more sense for me. I had thought about moving to a PPC at some point in time, though the new palm units, being so attractive with various features, almost delayed my switch.

Thanks

Ed Hansberry

01-02-2003, 05:01 AM

Just keep in mind you are comparing the top of the line $600 PalmOS device, the NX70, to a $300 Pocket PC. The NX has the larger screen, and form factor, as well as integrated camera. I still think overall the 1910 has more functionality, but things like that screen and camera cannot be overcome.

I am not trying to talk you out of the PPC. Quite the contrary. I think it is the superior platform in all respects, there is just no denying the Sony hardware. Man, a Sony with the PPC OS. Imagine. :)

Whatever you decide, let us know.

Kati Compton

01-02-2003, 05:11 AM

I am not trying to talk you out of the PPC. Quite the contrary. I think it is the superior platform in all respects, there is just no denying the Sony hardware. Man, a Sony with the PPC OS. Imagine. :)

And memory stick... :(

Ed Hansberry

01-02-2003, 05:20 AM

And memory stick... :(

Sigh.... yeah, there's that. Forget I said anything. Go with the 1910!!! :lol:

01-02-2003, 05:35 AM

I feel pretty solid about going for the 1910, I'll let you guys know next week when I start the process. Maybe there will even be someone in the office tomorrow, I'll swing by just in case I can get this thing going! I've kept my contacts in Outlook from the beginning, 18 months ago, anticipating the switch at some point to PPC.

Didn't realize when I signed on that you guys have some kind of contest going. This thread is the first time I've gotten going on a thread, after years of lurking on the internet (mostly for recumbent bikes and long distance biking).

This site is fantastic. And I just found the section on Palm to PPC recent converts.

Thanks, and take it easy!

rave

01-02-2003, 08:50 AM

Don't get the impression that a PPC crashes often "just because it runs Windows". It's nothing but anti-MS propaganda that Linux and Palm OS fanboys chant in their free time. Windows CE is very much different from the desktop OS just as much as WinXP is different from Win98. I was a little skeptic at first, but I've seen it first-hand. It's very stable and very fast.