Tubes in Your PC?

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://news.com.com/2100-1023-978617.html?part=dtx&tag=ntop' target='_blank'>http://news.com.com/2100-1023-97861...rt=dtx&tag=ntop</a><br /><br /></div>This isn't all that new, but I haven't seen a good article on the situation until this week. AOpen (an OEM manufacturer owned by Acer) sells a mainboard with a vacuum tube-based amplifier. They claim that the sound quality improvement has been noticeable. Debate has been ensuing as to whether they're brilliant or absolutely nuts. :)<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/tubepix.JPG" /><br /><br />More importantly, this might be the beginning of an evolution of PC's into the consumer audio and media markets. We've been seeing the evolution of the PC as a PVR/TV tuner culminating with XP Media Center Edition, so this can be viewed as another step further. Do you think that PC's will continue integration with consumer electronics, going higher-end? Could we see tubes in a Pocket PC specially geared to high-end audiophiles?<br /><br />(For more info on the tube-based technology, see <a href="http://www.aopen.com/tech/techinside/Tube.htm">AOpen's page on the subject</a>.)

[szamot]

I think it is brilliant, I love my SonicFrontiers tube amp, it is the only way to go if you are serious about music. If I had cash to spare I would get Mark Levison amps. Humm, a Ferrari or an amp let me think about it.

[Sheynk]

Lets face the music.

Windows media edition PCs are great, but the software that operated them is not. WME always makes you use the stupid interface for everything forcing you to cope with using windows software.

HHHHHMMMMMMMMM....to be honest with you...I might go for a pocket pc with good sound quality...but although I get my "music genes" from my dad who is the defenition of an audiophilie, my ipaq 3955 is not all that bad. What one must remember that (in portable cases) its not the player, its the cans that you use. If you dump 5 bucks for some earbuds..you might as well keep the crap that you get with your player....but if you pay 50+ for sony nudes ear buds..then we are talking quality. Also dont forget hte 100+ buck DJ phones.


Anyway I got way of subject.....sorry about that

To answer your question: Yes the better quality the better revenue.

[Sheynk]

I think it is brilliant, I love my SonicFrontiers tube amp, it is the only way to go if you are serious about music. If I had cash to spare I would get Mark Levison amps. Humm, a Ferrari or an amp let me think about it.



mmmmmmmmmmmmm....mark levinson....................


Crap all this drool on my keyboard now!!!!

Hey the Lexus LS 430 comes with an option for a mark levinson system installed.


wait.....more drooling...mmmmmmm mark levinson

[mashtim]

I can easily see some manufacturers using tubes in their systems that are geared for audiophiles. Heck, I'd buy one!

In a pocketpc, though? I don't see it. Tubes are too fragile to be used in a device that is meant to be pocketed. Tubes burn out, sometimes frequently. Changing them is a bit more complicated than simply changing batteries. Actually, I misspoke. Changing them is quite easy. It is the fact that in order for them to be properly shielded against breakage and to shield the user against the heat inherent to tubes, they need to be internal. This would mean that to change a blown tube you would need access to the interior of the pocketpc.

I won't even get into the issue of size.

However, like I said to start this, I can see tubes becoming an audiophile niche product. Of course, to use a pc with tube technology, they would have to come up with a fan that was virtually silent.

Dang, the more I think about it, the less likely it seems. I was getting excited there for a minute!

[BevHoward]

Anyone else old enough to have ever seen a portable tube based radio?

The portability issue is power... the (necessary) heating element in a tube consumes massive amounts of power compared to its solid state equivalent, so the batteries necessary for running the tubes make portability difficult at the least. As an example, the first successful mass produced transistor based products were Transistor Radios that allowed radio's to become truly portable.

Additionally, the British term for "tube" is "valve" a much more descriptive term than the former... and the output from tube switching is much more analog or smooth rather than the fast, sharp "clipped" output of chips, a property that can be used to advantage when needed.

[Sven Johannsen]

Additionally, the British term for "tube" is "valve" a much more descriptive term than the former

Maybe for the electrical function, but vacuum tube seems adequate for the physical construction.

[Don Tolson]

I wonder if, they might be working on a 'miniature' version of the tube technology, whcih would not require such high voltages (for bias, plate, etc) or currents (to get the heater going). Hmmmmm....

I mean, use the same basic concept (of heated electrons being used to regulate the passage of current through a second medium....Hmmmm.... (Hey! isn't this the concept being semiconductors????)

Anyway, just musing -- it would be kind of neat to see 'miniature' tubes in use in smaller devices. But I'm also one of those audiophiles who firmly believes that tube amps produce a much 'warmer' sound than the transistor models.

[topps]

I have some interesting trivia regarding valve/tube amps vs transistorised amplifiers.

The main difference in sound is the behaviour of the circuitry when it is overdriven. This dates back to the early days when amplifiers were not powerful and so were always played at max volume ie they were overdriven.

When you overdrive a valve amp, the distortion that sets in is predominantly in the even order harmonics (2nd order, 4th order etc). With a transistorised amp (and integrated circuits are basically lots of transistors), the distortion arises mostly in odd order harmonics (1st order, 3rd order, 5th order).

To our ears,even order harmonics give a much rounder fuller sound, compared to odd order which tend to sound thinner and more tinny. We all recognise the characteristic sound of an electric guitar being fed through a Marshall valve amp at max volume (think Jimi Hendrix). There is also more distortion in valve amps at lower volumes - so to a physics purist, transistor amps should give a cleaner sound - but it seems that we are nostalgic for the older style sound of valve amps.

There you go...more information than you ever wanted...just the thing to bore your neighbours with at a New Year's party!

dt

[ECOslin]

No, my experience with tubes is they are affected by ambient temperature and they generate heat.

I use to own a Lafayette SW reciever that was like Luke Skywalker trying to target the exhaust vent with his targeting computer. Drifting back and forth thru the sine peak of the signal. Glass has weight as well.

No, I'll stick with ICs. Now I've got a Sony ICF-SW77 now, works for me.

[that_kid]

Well I still have all my tube ham radio gear from the 50's and 60's that I use every day. I always get compliments on the sound quality and the receiver is quiter and more responsive than my newest transitor rig(go figure). I run into tube vs. Ic debate all the time dealing with audio recording. It's funny that in order to get a more smooth sound alot of engineers(myself included) run the final mix through some type of tube processor to smooth out the harshness of digital. I think that both work well together but this motherboard reminds me of this "tube" cd player I saw a few years ago. upon reading the fine print you found out that the "tube" wasn't even part of the audio stage. Marketing at it's best.

[szamot]

At a local store in Edmonton I saw a set of hand made headphones with its own tube amp. It included a key to lock it out, so the kids could not use it. I put them on the the guy turned them on with Flower Duet. from Leo Delibes' "Lakme" in a Mark Levison CD. It felt like my whole inside melted away and turned into a concert hall, it was an orgasm in my ears. Then I found out they had allocated 3 sets for Canada at a price of $24,000 each - I wanted to cry. Then again this place sells audio set ups for $349,999 so really 24K is a drop in a bucket. WOW - tubes rule.

[bostonnerd]

We all recognise the characteristic sound of an electric guitar being fed through a Marshall valve amp at max volume (think Jimi Hendrix).
dt

Ah...I remember that sound well from a little town in NY state...

[sgyee]

If you really want to boost the signal and quality of any PocketPC's audio output, place any item from HeadRoom Corporation (www.headphone.com) into the mix. They provide both tube and Solid State amplifiers for Sony Walkman based units. There's no reason why you couldn't replace the CD player with a PocketPC.....

[Janak Parekh]

sgyee, you need one of these (http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=3&subTopicID=26&productID=0020089090) ;)

--janak

[DrtyBlvd]

Hmmm. Seems a shame to spend that amount on a set of headphones to listen to Techno.

I did recently get a set of the Bose Quiet Comfort cans (http://www.bose.com/noise_reduction/qc_headset/more.shtml) - now they are fantastic, and somewhat more resonably priced... and best of all, they don't need music to sound good! (They did actually save me from a Manslaughter charge recently - think children+50 folks on a religeous pilgramage+long haul flight)

[szamot]

sgyee, you need one of these (http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=3&subTopicID=26&productID=0020089090) ;)

--janak

YEP these were the babies, a bit overpriced here in town but worth every penny I assure you guys of it. I bet Oakenfold or Tiesto would sound as good as Lakme did. Take them for a test drive one day if you can, but make suere the guy warms them up before you try them out.

[Janak Parekh]

YEP these were the babies, a bit overpriced here in town but worth every penny I assure you guys of it. I bet Oakenfold or Tiesto would sound as good as Lakme did.
Did you end up buying one set? 8O

--janak

[marlof]

A friend of mine has an original Quad tube amplifier. Actually he has two: one for each stereo channel. I must say: they do sound absolutely beautiful and rich. But would I want that in my computer? Only if they enhance all other components at work in reproducing sound (CD-drive etc.) so my computer could be a high end media centre.

[klinux]

Ahhh! You mentioned BOSE on an audiophile thread! Philistine!!! :)

Actually, I own a pair of noise-cancelling headphones too and they are wonderful to use on flights, especially in addition to earplugs.

[Peter Foot]

Thoughts for the day:-

Surely if we start filling PC's with valves we'll need loads more cooling fans (my pc has 4 already)...

And also, if you put valves in a digital camera would you get less digital looking photos...

[DrtyBlvd]

Ahhh! You mentioned BOSE on an audiophile thread! Philistine!!! :)

Actually, I own a pair of noise-cancelling headphones too and they are wonderful to use on flights, especially in addition to earplugs.

*ahem* :oops: :lol:

[sgyee]

sgyee, you need one of these (http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=3&subTopicID=26&productID=0020089090) ;)

--janak

Hehe...yep. If I had a spare 12k, I would drop it on that in a heartbeat....

[ux4484]

Yes it is kind of old news, we discussed back in November on PDA Avenue: http://www.pdaavenue.com/index.php?board=30;action=display;threadid=1457.

It's a geek ad-on like a clear case with Neon inside (I'm amazed Alienware doesn't have a package with it yet). Besides being a likely excessive heat generator (not to mention that tubes work on spark which is a computers worst enemy) it is only the final stage amp; which still means garbage in garbage out. Oh the irony of sending a poorly encoded MP3 into a tube amplifier :roll: You would be better off feeding a good sound card (turtle beach or CS Audigy) into a external tube amp than shelling for this gimmick.

[ECOslin]

Conversion from digital to analog signal so it's a little fuzzy around the edges.

[szamot]

[/quote]
Did you end up buying one set? 8O

--janak[/quote]

No I bought a new car instead, but I wish I could have had both. :(

[ukexpat]

The truth is that tubed systems (and vinyl) only sound "warmer" than digital/solid state systems because they add distortion and have limited high-frequency response. Give me a well recorded/mastered CD, digital preamp and solid state power amp any day.