Mercury News | 12/12/2002 | Mike Langberg: Dell makes strong PDA debut with Axim

[Ed Hansberry]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4723922.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/si...ley/4723922.htm</a><br /><br /></div>It is possible for a Palm fan to post an objective review of a Pocket PC, and Mike Langberg seems to have overcome the fear of being ostracized by his peers and done just that with the Dell Axim X5. <br /><br />"Dell Computer has made a brilliant debut in the crowded field of personal digital assistants with its fully featured and very affordable Axim X5 running Microsoft's PocketPC software. The Axim is such a good deal that it changes my world view: I'm now prepared, for the first time, to recommend first-time PDA buyers consider PocketPC as a reasonable alternative to the well-established Palm software."<br /><br />He goes on to do comparisons of the Axim to the M130, Zire, various Clies, a Treo and other Pocket PCs in features, usability and price. It is still clear that for Microsoft to win over many Palm enthusiasts, they have to figure out what "simple interface" means without destroying the rich feature set the Pocket PC has. Oh the complexity of being able to assign multiple categories to a contact and having a file system that means you don't have to know or care if your data or app is on a storage card or in RAM. :roll: <br /><br />"I remain a big fan of Palm's software. For ease of use and fast response, PDAs running the Palm operating system continue to outperform PocketPC, especially at basic tasks such as calendar and address book. The Palm side of the PDA divide also continues to offer the lowest entry price for buyers on a budget, with the monochrome Palm Zire at $99 and the monochrome Sony Clié PEG-SL10 at $149. I never recommended a PocketPC before because PDAs running the software were so expensive and slow. Now that Dell has removed those objections, I regard PocketPC as a worthy contender -- especially for those who want to work with Word or Excel documents, or who run their lives entirely through Microsoft's Outlook. All PocketPCs are designed to synchronize with Outlook, so any data you enter in Outlook on your computer automatically flows to your PDA, and vice versa. I borrowed the $199 Axim and found just about every facet sparkled." :)

[dazz]

Judging by the content I think this is Mr. Langberg's first time using a PocketPC in the last year and a half. The speed "issues" he talks about were no existant from at least the first 206Mhz processor.

When I was a kid I did NOT want to eat Chinese food. No WAY, it tastes aweful, looks terrible... Then one day I ACTUALLY tried it!!!

I had the same reaction as Mr. L...YUM!

dazz

[Foo Fighter]

I agree with Langberg. I rarely have recommended Pocket PCs simply because of the prohibitive cost. How can I tell a person looking for their very first PDA that they should spend $600 for an iPaq? It defies all reason. Now, however, I have been recommending the Dell to EVERYONE looking for a nice "starter" PDA with a color screen. The PalmOS selection is a disgrace by comparison. $199 on the PalmOS side will buy you a Sony SJ20 with a circa-1998 monochrome screen and limited functionality. Now, on the PPC side, that same price will net you a kick-ass high-res color screen PPC with all the trimmings. What's not to like?

Os preference might keep it out of the hands of some, but any PalmOS user who is not the least bit impressed with the Axim (at least in terms of value) is an outright zealot.
:roll:

[ThomasC22]

Judging by the content I think this is Mr. Langberg's first time using a PocketPC in the last year and a half. The speed "issues" he talks about were no existant from at least the first 206Mhz processor.


Actually, there are still some speed bumps (pun intended) if you will with the 206mhz StrongArm. Mostly in media player and reader but with other apps too! (and don't even ask about PocketFritz :))

[Foo Fighter]

Actually, there are still some speed bumps (pun intended) if you will with the 206mhz StrongArm. Mostly in media player and reader but with other apps too! (and don't even ask about PocketFritz :))

Yeah, overall speed is "Palm-like" until you get into the major apps....at which point, performance tends to bog down somewhat. But it's not too bad. Pocket IE is in desperate need of an overhaul though. And MS Reader is just plain awful. :? Palm Reader for PPC is EXCELLENT! :)

[sub_tex]

Os preference might keep it out of the hands of some, but any PalmOS user who is not the least bit impressed with the Axim (at least in terms of value) is an outright zealot.

Tell me about it.

I've officially thrown my hands in the air at attempting to post on the PIC forums. It's basically impossible to get anyone to admit that the Axim is an impressive device.

People are comparing it to the Zire!!

So sad.

(of course, it's also sad that there don't seem to be any knowledgable PPC users posting there either. Heck, I have a Palm OS device and i post wherever the news is good. I have no loyalty to an OS. Whatever gets me the most bang for the buck, and i enjoy using, i will purchase).

[Foo Fighter]

I've officially thrown my hands in the air at attempting to post on the PIC forums. It's basically impossible to get anyone to admit that the Axim is an impressive device.

That's why I rarely post at PIC. The mere mention of the word "PocketPC" will get you branded as a PocketPC fanboy or PPC Troll or M$ cheerleader by the knee-jerk reactionaries there. It is IMPOSSIBLE to talk sense to those fools. I like PalmOS to, but good gravy...talk about blind devotion. 8O

A few weeks ago, when the Tungsten first came out, I was complaining about the fact that Dell was able to offer so much for so little, while Palm was charging so much for so little. That was the wrong thing to say. Several people pounced on my ass with nasty comments and flame-mail. And when I first posted on the Tungsten dust issue, one person accused me of being part of some conspiracy cooked up by PPC users to scare people away from buying a Tungsten! :roll:

You can hold their faces to the sun, but you can't make them see the light. :roll:

People are comparing it to the Zire!!

That's funny, when I tried to compare the Axim to the Zire (from a price/value standpoint) I was labeled an idiot for comparing two diametrically apposed products. Now you say they are comparing it to the Zire? Looks like the Palm trolls will use whatever argument suits their fancy.

(of course, it's also sad that there don't seem to be any knowledgeable PPC users posting there either.

There is one rabble rouser there by the name of Ska who constantly throws gasoline on the fire.

Heck, I have a Palm OS device and i post wherever the news is good. I have no loyalty to an OS. Whatever gets me the most bang for the buck, and i enjoy using, i will purchase).

Yeah, I lean towards the PalmOS, but still remain fairly agnostic. I'm just as comfortable with my Axim as I am with my Palm. In the end it all comes down to what works for you.

[Ed Hansberry]

Yeah, I lean towards the PalmOS
Palm fanboy.

:wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :onfire:

[Foo Fighter]

Palm fanboy.

:wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :onfire:

Dance, monkeyboy!! :snipersmile: :onfire:

[Janak Parekh]

That's why I rarely post at PIC. The mere mention of the word "PocketPC" will get you branded as a PocketPC fanboy or PPC Troll or M$ cheerleader by the knee-jerk reactionaries there. It is IMPOSSIBLE to talk sense to those fools. I like PalmOS to, but good gravy...talk about blind devotion. 8O
Indeed, what I liked about PDABuzz and like about this site is its community: it's generally well-educated, open-minded (biased, but willing to listen), and great fun to talk to. Slashdot used to be like that years ago, but it's degraded into what you say above; just substitute "Linux" for "Palm". While I browse the forums there, the number of closed-minded people often makes me (metaphorically) throw my hands up in despair. We... well, we've only got Ed. :way to go:

Let's not lose that community feel, m'kay? :D

--bdj

[Foo Fighter]

Indeed, what I liked about PDABuzz and like about this site is its community: it's generally well-educated, open-minded (biased, but willing to listen), and great fun to talk to.

That too is a reason why I gravitated here as well, after the Wes/Buzz fiasco. Even though, until recently, I was strictly a Palmy, I have found PPCT to offer a very open atmosphere where people honestly enjoy discussing and debating complex issues without tearing each others heads off or slandering one another.

Slashdot used to be like that years ago, but it's degraded into what you say above; just substitute "Linux" for "Palm".

Ah...Slashdot. Yes, that neighborhood is held and guarded by the Penguin patrol I'm afraid. Those folks will condemn anything related to Microsoft. If Jesus Christ descended from the heavens carrying a Notebook PC running Windows....they would stone him to death before his sandals touched the ground. :?

[ThomasC22]

You know, if I did not know better I would think you guys were insinuating that the people at Slashdot and PIC are less than objective :P

[JonnoB]

You know, if I did not know better I would think you guys were insinuating that the people at Slashdot and PIC are less than objective :P

Sometimes I get the sense that they are the computer equivilants of religious fanatics, political communists or anarchists.

[Keystone]

$199 on the PalmOS side will buy you a Sony SJ20 with a circa-1998 monochrome screen and limited functionality.

Carefull there PocketPC fanboy... ;)

If a comparison is to be made, then let's cut the zealotry and be honest with the availability of units. The price of a Sony SJ10 (why jump up to a SJ20 while including a Zire in this thread as a low-end benchmark?) is ~C$199 with the entry-level Dell at C$299 (after an C$80 mail-in rebate). This and it's SL20 brother certainly AREN'T in possesion of 5 year old displays! These both out-do the resolution of the Pocket PCs by besting 320x240 to 320x320. Not everyone requires a colour display to necessitate quicker access (certainly remains the case considering the hurdles in the PocketPC platform) to information and longer battery life in a SMALLER unit.

For regular consumers and non-IT types, unless one's keen on more capable multi-media entertainment with the trade-offs of a bulkier unit and cumbersome interface, I still recommend Palm-OS handhelds.

Knowing full well of the trade-offs and advantages I've recently retired my PalmVx in favour of an e740. Before I passed the Palm on to my dad I was a bit choked at seeing this simple machine being quicker to access the data that I needed (contacts, to-do, calender) at the moment.

There certainly remains a place in the handheld market where PocketPC's are still not capable of penetrating. It's up to MS to provide the OEMs with an interface in .NET that can rival the simplicity and speed of a Palm -- an advantage to all price levels. Still, with that accomplished the low-end price points between the two platforms can remain distinctive with the MS barrier of requiring costlier hardware to run a more demanding OS.[/i]

[beatitudes]

Just like to add my thoughts to this thread. I too used a palm and within 7 months, I switched to a PPC. There is no comparison when u look at the fact that PPC gives me more power, memory and better resolution than a palm. I know for a fact my colleague who was showing off her m505 when she got it, simply casted it aside and stopped using it. That was 1 year ago.

[Jonathan1]

Are there any rumors yet on the X3? I'm highly interested in what smaller device Dell might be offering. I'm in the market for a new PDA.

[Foo Fighter]

The price of a Sony SJ10 (why jump up to a SJ20 while including a Zire in this thread as a low-end benchmark?) is ~C$199 with the entry-level Dell at C$299 (after an C$80 mail-in rebate).

In the US, the price of the SJ10 is $129. The low-end Dell is $250 ($199 after a $50 rebate).

This and it's SL20 brother certainly AREN'T in possession of 5 year old displays!

They are MONOCHROME displays, or rather grayscale....which have been around the PDA market since the beginning of time. Yes they are higher resolution, but grayscale doesn't measure up to the quality of color.

these both out-do the resolution of the Pocket PCs by besting 320x240 to 320x320.

Yes, but on a grayscale display. That competes very poorly with PPC offerings.

Not everyone requires a colour display to necessitate quicker access

Requirements have nothing to do with this equation. Consumers want more value for their money. When you compare a $199 monochrome PDA to a $199 color offering, consumers will typically lean towards color.

You can argue this point any way you like, and much of what you say is true. But no matter how you look at there is simply NO EXCUSE why Palm and Sony can't be at this price-point with competitive color offerings. The current product lines are an absolute disgrace. Sony should at least drop the price on the T665 to $299, eliminate the SJ10 and drop the SJ20 in to the sub-$100 category....and slash the SJ30 to $199 or $179.

I'm sorry, but to charge $199 for monochrome PDAs in a time when color is falling down to the same price bracket is a sin. The PalmOS has ALWAYS presented the bests value to consumers. Simple, elegant, while offering more bang for the buck. Now it is time for Palm and SONY to prove that point once again, instead of padding their margins as they are doing now. :roll:

[Janak Parekh]

Sometimes I get the sense that they are the computer equivilants of religious fanatics, political communists or anarchists.
Sometimes? :D

--janak

[Jonathon Watkins]

Indeed, what I liked about PDABuzz and like about this site is its community: it's generally well-educated, open-minded (biased, but willing to listen), and great fun to talk to.
That too is a reason why I gravitated here as well, after the Wes/Buzz fiasco. Even though, until recently, I was strictly a Palmy, I have found PPCT to offer a very open atmosphere where people honestly enjoy discussing and debating complex issues without tearing each others heads off or slandering one another.

Totally agree with both of you guys - that's why I came here too after the problems at "The site that formerly was run by Wes Salmon". It's the people (and especially Jason and the Mods). We do have disagreements - but it's not vicious or nasty (usually – and even then it is almost always sorted out quickly and fairly).

On a different note (and back on topic), I got the latest issue of PCPro today (dead tree edition). They review the Dell Axim X5 (recommends it). Unfortunately they only release the print issue onto the web (www.pcpro.co.uk) several weeks after the print issue comes out. It is in issue 100, February 2003.

They say that Dell will release the X5 in the UK on the 3rd of February and the 400Mhz version will be £235 and the 300Mhz will be around £160.

[Janak Parekh]

On a different note (and back on topic), I got the latest issue of PCPro today (dead tree edition). They review the Dell Axim X5 (recommends it). Unfortunately they only release the print issue onto the web (www.pcpro.co.uk) several weeks after the print issue comes out. It is in issue 100, February 2003.
Interestingly, the new PC Magazine also came out. They reviewed the triumverate (the Axim, the 1910, and the V35). Their suggestion was to stick with the 1910 unless you needed the dual-slots, but they sounded pretty positive on all three. The 3900 also won as one of the "best products of 2002" (as did the NR-70V... and the Zire, which they claim has a backlight :roll:).

--janak

[Jonathon Watkins]

So janak/Big Daddy, why/how the name change? :?:

[Janak Parekh]

So janak/Big Daddy, why/how the name change? :?:
Wait 'til tomorrow for an answer. :)

--janak

[Kati Compton]

So janak/Big Daddy, why/how the name change? :?:
Wait 'til tomorrow for an answer. :)

I CAN'T TAKE THE SUSPENSE!!!!


;)

[Janak Parekh]

I CAN'T TAKE THE SUSPENSE!!!!
Uhh... OK. Step slowly away from the computer, go into the other room, and watch some TV.

;)

I can sympathize -- I have a textbook next to me that's about 75% read, I want to finish it, plus read some papers -- and it's been 5 hours so far, and I've accomplished nothing. Not having finals just drains the motivation from you this week. :)

(OTOH, thank god I don't have finals, otherwise I'd be dying over the prospect of the transit strike that's about to happen...)

--janak

[Jonathon Watkins]

I think I can guess........ :P

[Kati Compton]

I think I can guess........ :P

Well of course - if you look at his tagline next to the avatar it says "Admin formerly known as BigDaddyJ".

What a giveaway. ;)

[Janak Parekh]

What a giveaway. ;)
That was a carefully-planned giveaway. It was "The Poster Formerly Known As BigDaddyJ" until this morning. So don't feel like you missed it. ;)

--janak

[Jonathon Watkins]

I think I can guess........ :P

Well of course - if you look at his tagline next to the avatar it says "Admin formerly known as BigDaddyJ".

What a giveaway. ;)

Give me a break guys - it did not show that at the time - I also went staight to the page via an email link so did not see the news. :)

[Kati Compton]

What a giveaway. ;)
That was a carefully-planned giveaway. It was "The Poster Formerly Known As BigDaddyJ" until this morning. So don't feel like you missed it. ;)

Yep - I know. But since changing your name also updates all previous posts, I thought it was funny that it "looked" like you were an admin before you actually were.