Why I'm going to pass on the h1910...

[Marauder]

Hi everyone! I've just found these forums, so I thought I'd make my first post ;)

Anyway, I was interested in getting a new PDA and naturally, I found the new h1910 very compelling. I've read a lot about them on this forum, and finally come to the informed decision to pass. The size and look are very cool, as I finally had a chance to check one out at the local CompUSA earlier today. There are a few key issues with the unit that just break the deal though, and I thought I'd sum them up to others to read and comment on (I'll also add in a few comments on the ViewSonic v35, as I was also considering that). Here goes:

Pros:

Screen: Amazing. The color depth and brightness are far better than any other screen I've seen--even on the lowest setting. Better than the v35 for sure. Much better than my old 3670.

Size: Wow. This thing is small. My major beef with all the Pocket PCs has been the large size compared to the smaller Palms, and I've been waiting for a Pocket PC to come out that was this small. Feels much smaller than the v35.

HP reliability: I'd trust HP over ViewSonic any day (in terms of PDAs). Some people complain about HP, but the fact is that they've had years of Pocket PC experience compared to ViewSonic.

Neutral Issues:

Processor: Not as fast as most new PDAs, but enough to get the job done. As long as it plays MP3s and works for standard tasks, it's fine with me. I don't know about video playback, but in my experience with my 3670, video isn't all that great on PDAs yet anyway (takes up too much memory and battery life). More speed would be nice for games, but if you're heavily concerned with that, you're probably better off with a larger PDA anyway. I've heard that the h1910 does well with most games anyway.

Price: $300 is a bit high for what you're getting in the box, I agree... but it's not all that expensive compared to some PDAs. I'd say $250 would be more fair, but you can probably find it for that much online anyway.

Memory: Well, it's got 64mb. Oops, I mean 48mb user-accessible. Well, make that 40mb after the extras are installed (like Media player). I don't know why newer Pocket PCs don't come with more than this... but at least you've got the SD slot.

Cons:

No SDIO: This unit's biggest fault, IMO. I want a Pocket PC that has wireless capabilities, and there's really no way to do it with the h1910. Expansion sleeves for CF cards will probably come out, but then you're back to the larger size. HP really messed up here... people want wireless capability these days.

Batter life: Another big complaint of mine against my 3670 was the battery life. I like being able to play MP3s often, so I need the longer lasting battery. Sure you can have an extra, but it's just one more thing to carry.

Head Phone Jack: Many people don't know that it's a mini-jack. Not the standard. That's why HP felt the need to include headphones (I mean, who doesn't have a pair of semi-cheap earbud headphones that came with something?). I'd like to use my own pair, but having an adapter is a pain.

Well, I think I've covered everything. I'm sure a new model in the 1900 series isn't far off, so I'll wait for that one. I'd like to see:

-Better battery. At least 1,400mAh (2,000mAh would be better).
-Two SD slots, at least one SDIO.
(one for Wireless, one for storage)
-Regular headphone jack. Get rid of the mini-headphones and
pass the savings on to the user.

I'd have bought an h1910, but I decided to wait for the next one. I'd love to hear other's suggestions or comments on the h1910 and the 1900 series. I think HP's got a hit on their hands... just fix a couple things and it'll be perfect. ;)

-Graham

[ThomasC22]

I think the bottom line on the 1910 is, if having the absolute smallest PocketPC is VERY important to you get the 1910, otherwise don't bother.

'Nuff said!

[Paul P]

Memory: Well, it's got 64mb. Oops, I mean 48mb user-accessible. Well, make that 40mb after the extras are installed (like Media player). I don't know why newer Pocket PCs don't come with more than this... but at least you've got the SD slot.

For what it is worth, make it 36mb for Viewsonic, and 28mb after the extras are installed. :)

[Marauder]

Thomas--
Well, I wouldn't necessarily go that far... If you can live without wireless connectivity, I think that the h1910 is a one of the best PDAs out there. For me, having a small PDA is very important--I found the size of a 3670 to be cumbersome, while I don't mind carrying a Palm V in my pocket.

Paul--
Yeah, I wasn't quite sure about the memory for the v35 or after all the extras are installed. I actually like the fact that media player is not in ROM, so that there's no wasted space for outdated versions. In any case, I wouldn't consider getting one of these devices without adding more memory.

-Graham

[ThomasC22]

Thomas--
Well, I wouldn't necessarily go that far... If you can live without wireless connectivity, I think that the h1910 is a one of the best PDAs out there. For me, having a small PDA is very important--I found the size of a 3670

Well, what I was going off of was your own Pros/Neutrals...Watch!

Screen: TieI've heard that the Viewsonic's screen matches the 1910

Reliability: Tie I'm sorry, but as someone who had to return his iPaq 5 times at one point I don't give points for reliability. Viewsonic is an unknown quantity, put it together and you get, in my mind, a tie.

Processor: Viewsonic Wins for it's faster processor
Memory: 1910 wins for having more available
Price: Tie: because they are both the same price.

All that in mind, and keeping in mind you lose SDIO with the 1910, that puts Viewsonic on top for me UNLESS size is your most important factor. Plus, with Dell out there (for those who don't need a really thin PPC) it makes the point even clearer.

Not that I didn't like the way you articulated :D

[Marauder]

Yes, I agree that the v35 is a very good PDA, but I'd like to avoid a huge debate over which is better here ;) The Viewsonic has the 1910 beat in some respects (Processor, expandibility), and the 1910 is better in other (size, memory). Just pick which one is best for you ;)

-Graham

PS: I've compared the two screens, and I have to say that the 1910's is better. That's not to say that the v35 doesn't have a great display (hey, it's Viewsonic!)... but it's not quite as good as the 1910's.

[enemy2k2]

Well, I think I've covered everything. I'm sure a new model in the 1900 series isn't far off, so I'll wait for that one. I'd like to see:

-Better battery. At least 1,400mAh (2,000mAh would be better).
-Two SD slots, at least one SDIO.
(one for Wireless, one for storage)
-Regular headphone jack. Get rid of the mini-headphones and
pass the savings on to the user.

I'd have bought an h1910, but I decided to wait for the next one. I'd love to hear other's suggestions or comments on the h1910 and the 1900 series. I think HP's got a hit on their hands... just fix a couple things and it'll be perfect. ;)

-Graham

If size and features are really all that important to you, and it seems to me to be since you're comparing the two smallest available units, then it sounds as though what you're after is the Toshiba E-330. It has 300Mhz XScale 32MB ROM, full 64MB RAM. The screen may not be up to your standards though as it's reflective. You should definitely check this unit out.

Between the two Viewsonic and HP models then it really depends what you're looking for. If absolute smallest size and best screen do it for you then get the HP. If, however, you require more battery life (about double with power savings), need options such as comm. cards, 2.5mm headphone jack, and slightly faster processor, then the Viewsonic should be your first choice. Though I would prefer the Toshiba over it.

1400/2000mah batttery is highly unlikely, it would defeat the purpose of the 1910s design. Perhaps as an extended batter pack that would add extra bulk as well... SDIO will probably happen in the next iteration, but I don't think that will be out as soon as you think - maybe in a year? Two SD slots - highly unlikely, not in this form factor. Maybe one reduced size MMC slot and one SDIO, even that seems unlikely. Perhaps in slightly larger units like the Viewsonic or Toshiba it would be possible. Though I wouldn't know, not knowing how these things look inside and how much space is available.

Though, if all the features you are after and the lowest price in town isn't too much of a difficult concept to accept, then I would suggest thinking about a Dell. They're nowhere near the size of these tiny little guys, especially the 1910 (that would be my second choice), but it has the screen you're looking for - almost as good as the 1910. It has the battery you're looking 1440mah. Games, no problem. Dual expansion slots, one SD slot you can use for RAM, and one CF slots for all the accessories you could possibly ask for and can't even dream of with SDIO yet. Larger headphone jack. Not to mention it's dirty cheap. Big savings! If you go with the higher end model then you have the best of everything that is currently available! The only thing about it is that it's sized like a typical pocket PC, which isn't bad. But compare it to the 1910 and it becomes a giant... check this pic. out

http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/iPAQ/1910/images/compDellvs1910stack.jpg

The mini headphone jack was probably implemented because of space restrictions, but that's no bid deal. Just buy an adapter from Radio Shack and keep it on the plug of the headphones of your choice :D

[Pony99CA]

I'm sure a new model in the 1900 series isn't far off, so I'll wait for that one. I'd like to see:

-Better battery. At least 1,400mAh (2,000mAh would be better).
-Two SD slots, at least one SDIO.
(one for Wireless, one for storage)
-Regular headphone jack. Get rid of the mini-headphones and
pass the savings on to the user.

Good luck on those features. If HP could have designed it with a bigger battery, two SD slots, or a regular headphone jack, and kept it the same size and price (important issues), don't you think they would have? :-)

I am a bit surprised that the 1910 doesn't have SDIO. Would including it have required more circuitry that would have affected size? It didn't seem to in the case of the 3800 series vs. the 3900 series, but those are bigger.

Of course, for now it's a moot point. There aren't any SDIO peripherals that I'm aware of available yet except for a Bluetooth adapter.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

Though, if all the features you are after and the lowest price in town isn't too much of a difficult concept to accept, then I would suggest thinking about a Dell. They're nowhere near the size of these tiny little guys, especially the 1910 (that would be my second choice), but it has the screen you're looking for - almost as good as the 1910. It has the battery you're looking 1440mah. Games, no problem. Dual expansion slots, one SD slot you can use for RAM, and one CF slots for all the accessories you could possibly ask for and can't even dream of with SDIO yet.

That may be true, as long as he doesn't ask for one of those 2 GB or 5 GB PCMCIA hard disks (or any other device that only comes in PCMCIA cards). :-D

Steve

[enemy2k2]

I am a bit surprised that the 1910 doesn't have SDIO. Would including it have required more circuitry that would have affected size? It didn't seem to in the case of the 3800 series vs. the 3900 series, but those are bigger.

Of course, for now it's a moot point. There aren't any SDIO peripherals that I'm aware of available yet except for a Bluetooth adapter.

Steve

I read a post somewhere on this site that stated SDIO slots add about $20 extra to the cost, plus your suggestion of perhaps requiring more circuitry affecting size is a good one.

[aristoBrat]

Out of curiosity, has anyone seen any actual V35 battery benchmarks?

After seeing how they marketed the available memory for the device, the claims of it's battery lasting longer really have me wondering.

[Marauder]

Thanks for the input guys. Personally, I don't think that SDIO is a moot point... I think I'd be able to overlook the short battery life and mini jack if I could get wireless access. I'd definetly pay more for the same model, but with SDIO capabilities. It doesn't seem like it would take up much extra ciruitry space, but I could be wrong. Bluetooth would be a nice option for connecting to a mobile phone for wireless internet. I've also read that a WiFi SD card is in the works and due out Q1 03. I'd be interested in using the Terminal Services connection while working remotely. Is a cell phone connection provide adequate speed for that? I think WiFi would at least.

Adding on peripherals and wireless all increase the size and weight of a PDA. That's why I like the SD cards so much--you don't have to compromise your size to add more memory or a wireless connection. Obviously, HP designed the 1910 as best they could, discarding a few less essential components to keep the size down. I'd be surprised if HP doesn't come out with a new entry in the 1900 series within 6 months though. Just think about how many iPaqs have been released over the past year. I'd rather wait and get something that I'll be completely satisfied with. Now I just have to wait for HP...

[aristoBrat]

I thought that was HP's plan -- new models based on the 1900 design.

BTW, terminal services is very doable over a 56K dialup connection. At least on a laptop it is -- should probably be a little more faster on a PocketPC since you only get to see a quadrant (1/6) of the servers screen at once, anyhow. ;)

With the specs/price of the 1910, I had always thought it'd do well with the folks that want a PocketPC to do mostly PIM stuff on. It'd be something I'd feel confident giving to my dad to keep him organized.

Having said that, it kinda makes me chuckle when the hardcore PocketPC folks are fussing about "no SDIO, the lack of RAM, the weak battery, etc.." I honestly don't think the 1910 was designed for this crowd.

Again, its specs are awesome for the PocketPC PIM-centric user. ;)

[Palmguy]

I agree, Marauder. If HP could get SDIO, as well as a 300/400 MHz XScale, better battery life, and at least 64 *real* megabytes of memory, it would be awesome. Integrated Wifi would be nice too, but I won't hold my breath!

[aristoBrat]

I agree, Marauder. If HP could get SDIO, as well as a 300/400 MHz XScale, better battery life, and at least 64 *real* megabytes of memory, it would be awesome. Integrated Wifi would be nice too, but I won't hold my breath!
Hey, that's the new iPAQ 5450?! Oh, wait -- you want that in the size of the 1910? I'll be joining you in the "not holding my breath" area... :)

[Marauder]

Heh, yeah--we all want the power of our desktop in something this small, but it's not going to happen (for a while). The 1910 is definetly a great device for entry-level users since it's small and will handle all PIM tasks with ease. I'm glad to hear that HP is definetly coming out with new 1900s--I can't wait to see 'em ;)

I've been using Remote Desktop with my laptop and a WiFi card at school to connect to my home PC--it's a great solution since most of my campus is WiFi connected. I was looking at a PDA to lighten the load, but I still need the wireless connectivity. I'd really like to try using Nyditot's Virtual Desktop to see a landscape 800x600 desktop on a PDA :D If anyone has some pics of something like that, I'd love to see!

[Coolhandace]

Take a normal guy, put him in a room with a swim suit model and a meter maid and which one will he take home? The Viewsonic sounds good on paper but having seen it in person it’s ugly and the screen is dull. It is not even a close comparison to the transreflective Ipaq screen sitting next to it. :roll: As far as memory goes as has been reported the h1910 has more usable memory than the Viewsonic. As far as speed goes from the benchmarks being reported the speed will be about the same.

The day I get it I am going to hook my sexy new h1910 up to a GPS unit and run a mapping program on it, can you do that on a Viewsonic? I can’t wait to slide one of these shinny new devices into my hand. Put both in a room together and I think you will do the same.

Why do you think so many palm 5s have been sold? Most people want a small unit not an Apple Newton. If I need alot of horsepower I will use my laptop.

[tthiel]

Right. Hard corp users don't realize how much of a minorty they are on either Pocket PC or Palm. On both devices by far the large majority of users never add any apps but jsut use the built in ones. Then again there are users like myslef who dd software but I have no desire to play MP3's ( I have an iPod) or watch movies on that tiny little screen. The HP1910 is just right for me.



Having said that, it kinda makes me chuckle when the hardcore PocketPC folks are fussing about "no SDIO, the lack of RAM, the weak battery, etc.." I honestly don't think the 1910 was designed for this crowd.

Again, its specs are awesome for the PocketPC PIM-centric user. ;)