Reduced Size MultiMediaCards (RS-MMCTM)

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.dpreview.com/news/0211/02112101rsmmc.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.dpreview.com/news/0211/0...112101rsmmc.asp</a><br /><br /></div>So am I the only one who thought that MultiMediaCards were small enough already? Apparently the people behing MMC didn't think so - they've released a new form of MMC that's 40% smaller than before. They have the same 7-pin connector as before, so they're compatible with current devices...although I have to admit I'm confused how this will work since the cards are now 18mm tall instead of 32mm tall, which begs the question of how we'll get them in and out of our Pocket PCs. An adaptor of some sort?<br /><br /><b>Volume (in cm3 ):Device type</b><br />5.14: CompactFlash<br />3.01: Sony Memory Stick<br />1.27: Smart Media<br />1.08: MultiMediaCard (Standard)<br />0.85: xD-Picture Card<br />0.60: MultiMediaCard (RS-MMC)<br /><br />"A reduced-size standard for the MultiMediaCard™ was approved at the MultiMediaCard Association’s recent membership meeting in Boston, according to Andy Prophet, Executive Director of the trade organization.<br /><br />The new Reduced Size MultiMediaCards (RS-MMCTM) will store data for mobile phones in a form factor that is approximately one-half the size of the standard MultiMediaCard. The new cards will be manufactured and marketed by various members of the MMCA with density ranges of 16/32/64 Mbytes available immediately, expanding to 128 and 256 Mbytes later in 2003. Both standard and RS-MMCs have seven pins and can be used in existing host platform. However, the MMCA believes the new RS-MMCs will find most acceptance in next-generation smart mobile phones. The RS-MMC proposal was cosponsored by Hitachi Ltd. and EEMS Italia SpA, Europe's leading provider of back-end manufacturing services for semiconductor memory.<br /><br />Dimensions of the reduced size cards are 24x18x1.4 mm3, reduced from 24x32x1.4 mm³ in existing cards. The reduced size cards are supported by cell phone makers that understand the advantage for their next generation products where space and power are at a premium. In addition, compliance issues have been taken into consideration so that, for example, a card from a cell phone can be inserted in a digital camera."

[Foo Fighter]

There is such a thing as TOO small. At these sizes, storage cards are becoming dangerously easy to lose. Take one out of your pocket, and it's gone with the wind. :oops:

[mookie123]

Hey maybe now Dual SD slots are practical to build in PDA? this could be something.

[enemy2k2]

NEVER 2 small, IMHO. Unless, that is, it gets to the point of requiring handling by tweezers. That would be a pain and a half :P I would definitely prefer capacity over physical size though, any day...

[Merlion]

Hey maybe now Dual SD slots are practical to build in PDA? this could be something.
You mean dual RS-MMC slots? ;)

If the first ones can go up to 64MB vs the current SD's 512MB, then I'd rather have one SD-slot that have 8 times the capacity of 2 RS-MMC slots for storage. :)

However, this might fit a niche for ultra small devices, like a wristwatch PDA, a ring communicator, a pen phone (like the PC-ePhone's), etc. Afterall, I think MMC is losing out to SD in MMC's size range.

For full-size PDAs though, I think SD is tiny enough.

[Jonathan1]

I could see a legit reason for building such memory directly into the Pocket PC as sort of a wanna be hard drive. But as a stand alone device something like that really would be too small. Imagine trying to hold such a thing in your fingers. It would be unwieldy and way to easy to lose. As Foo said there is such a thing as too small.

[don dre]

Unless it means they will start putting them into the devices themselves, I would rather see bigger, cheaper versions of the current standard.

[KyleC]

I think that the xD and the RS-MMCTM (whatever) are just WAY to tiny fo any real use in a PDA. SD is on the border of being TOO small, but becasue it comes in high capacity (and it's the only memory my handheld takes) i'm OK with it. Also, the word "RS-MMCTM" is also too big, especially for an acronym. Can you imagine going into an electronics store and asking someone for an "Are Ess Em Em See Tee Em" card? This is almost as bad as the Memory stick duo, in terms of size. MMCs also tend to hold very little for it's area. It's 589 MB/cm3 (max) for CF but only about 119MB/cm3 for MMC.

All in all, we need to keep CF & SD, but kill MMC, MS, MS-DUO, xD, and RS-MMCTM. Two memory formats for PDAs and cameras is all we need (or want, for that matter)

[jmulder]

For full-size PDAs though, I think SD is tiny enough.

Does anybody else see the irony in this statement? Since when are PDA's "full-size"? :D

-Jim

[ThomasC22]

Does anybody else see the irony in this statement? Since when are PDA's "full-size"? :D


Actually, after having the "how big is this compared to this..." discussion a few thousand times I'm beginning to think a few standard PDA form factors might not be a bad idea :wink:

[Merlion]

For full-size PDAs though, I think SD is tiny enough.

Does anybody else see the irony in this statement? Since when are PDA's "full-size"? :D

-Jim
:D Actually, in context ;), I said "full-size" as opposed to a watch PDA where I thought the RS-MMC might be OK.

[ECOslin]

Oops wheres my memory card. I can stand by updating the IDE driver to handle larger cards in my PDA, I just don't want another storage card format that A: my stuff can't read and B: I'll lose it in a jacket pocket because it was too small for me to find it the first time I looked for it.

I might have to goto Radio-shack, Bestbuy or Comp-USA(computer retailers) just to transfer files from all the new formats to something I can use. Once apon a time someone gave me a Mac formated floppy disk and stuff got delayed when I had to give it back to them to get something I could use.

Edward

[Cortex]

i dont mind spending 50 to 150 dollars everytime i loose one, especially if it will keep the folks behind these brilliant standards in the money...

maybe they could make them less reliable as well...

:evil:


one really has to ask
1. what is the motivation behind creating so many memory form factors?
2. is doing so actually limiting expandability options?

i use a casio em500 that only has an SD slot and i'm still waiting for a wifi card -- 2 years later. am i really better off than if the device had a CF card slot instead?

[st63z]

This is almost as bad as the Memory stick duo, in terms of size. MMCs also tend to hold very little for it's area. It's 589 MB/cm3 (max) for CF but only about 119MB/cm3 for MMC.

All in all, we need to keep CF & SD, but kill MMC, MS, MS-DUO, xD, and RS-MMCTM.

If I recall MS Duo is: 20W x 31L x 1.6D (mm3), which is actually not that much smaller (but thicker) than standard MMC: 24W x 32L x 1.4D (mm3). I think Sony meant the Duo to compete w/ standard SD/MMC in the first place?

It's really too bad the MemStick is too narrow at 20-21.5mm wide, it precludes making a MemStick adapter for SD/MMC because the latter are 24mm wide :( Well, I guess you can have an adapter, but it would stick out of the slot...

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but none among MMC, RS-MMC, MemStick, MemStick Duo, Smart Media, or even xD have yet to surpass 128MB?? Only CF and SD have the large capacities for now?

[Mark Johnson]

Merlion has a point about the watch-sized PDA idea. I saw the PalmOS watch from Fossil (www.fossil.com) and the rebranded version of it called the Abacus (www.abacuswatches.com) and thought they were an interesting idea.

Clearly they are a lot less functional than a real PocketPC, but I just got a TabletPC and I'm finding that I have it with me so much I don't need my PocketPC nearly as often. I do, however, have a few bits of info like phone numbers and simple reference lists that the TabletPC is overkill for. The combination of a wrist PDA and the TabletPC might be great. The limited memory of the watch, however is a bit of a concern. A full-size SD card would be hard to integrate, but the reduced size SD one might work.

Also, it's just nice to see that the SD card forum guys are not going to let themselves get outflanked by Sony (which brought out the Memory Stick Duo a couple of months ago) and Olympus/Fuji (who I think are they guys behind the xD).

There may or may not be a need for a smaller memory card, but if there is, I really would hate for non-standard/proprietary formats like MemoryStick and xD to gain marketshare just because of the size issue. It's just absurd that there are so many flash memory standards out there right now. It's like the war with DVD-RW vs. DVD+RW vs. DVD-RAM, etc. The consumer loses. At least SD and RS-SD or RS-MMC are the same pin interface.

[ECOslin]

I tried Smartmedia (which is in no way smart as it's just memory chips on a card with no controller chip), I was worried that I would break it accidentally. I pretty much consistantly use Compact Flash cards (which do have a controller) as because they're thicker and I haven't had a memory corruption problem with the data. Which I did have with the one smartmedia card I owned.

Benefits of Compact Flash: Large as a Silver Dollar coin, Thick enough that I'd have to forceably snap it with my fingers to do it damage, an already existing format, IDE drivers work with it, and a chip on board that say's 'I didn't get that' when data doesn't come thru right.

Edward

[Ed Hansberry]

I voted no because it is getting a bit small but mainly because I am freaking sick to death of so many different cards! If the mini-mmc takes off in phones, my SD card won't work in the phone.

Lets pick one size and stick with it for a few years shall we? :roll: Oh yeah - can't leave this thread without saying "Sony, you s*** for pressing your proprietary memory stick standard. :evil:

[T-Will]

How about coming out with a whole line of "RS-MMCTM" cards? First there would be "ERS-MMCTM", (Extremely Reduced Sized MultiMediaCard). This would be half the size of "RS-MMCTM". Then there could be another version called "SERS-MMCTM" (Super Extremely Reduced Sized MultiMediaCard), this would be half the size of "ERS-MMCTM." Then for those people that want memory card that is truly portable there could be "SDERS-MMCTM" (Super Duper Extremely Reduced Sized MultiMediaCard). This would be half the size of "SERS-MMCTM," which is half the size of "ERS-MMCTM," which is half the size of "RS-MMCTM." As clear as mud, eh? :roll:

[st63z]

One potential, think how much smaller they can make the SanDisk Cruzer to fit on your keychain...

[st63z]

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,107315,00.asp

"Like a standard MMC, an RS-MMC can be also plugged into the Secure Digital card slot when using an adaptor, says Yoda"

"A lot of digital content doesn't need to be secure and so SD will complement MMC not replace it, Yoda says."

Dude, when Yoda starts recommending a flash memory card format...

Mind you, this is a she-Yoda. And how about that TV promo.. "Who's da man? Yo Da Man!!"

[wangsanegara]

I was wondering why they are creating a smaller version MMC/SD. Why didn't they use the money they used for R&D, for other stuff. Such as creating a higher capacity MMC/SD without increasing the price. :D :D :D

Andreas

[Pony99CA]

All in all, we need to keep CF & SD, but kill MMC, MS, MS-DUO, xD, and RS-MMCTM. Two memory formats for PDAs and cameras is all we need (or want, for that matter)
I bet those are the two you use, too. :-) They're what I use, and I agree, but I bet that people using Smart Media (which you forgot) or Memory Stick would disagree.

Also, what happened to the original standard -- PCMCIA? I still have a 48 MB PCMCIA card that I bought to back up my Sharp Mobilon Handheld PC on. I also used it on my iPAQ 3870, but the backup got too big. :-)

Steve

[ECOslin]

I guess companies invent new formats so you have to buy all new stuff.

VHS, Beta, Large format Videodisk, DVD.

LP, 45, 8-track, cassette, CD, MD, CD-R.

'Our new stuff is better than their old stuff!' Part with the cash here!

I never got into Sony Memory stick, I always thought it looked too much like a stick of gum.

Edward

[DavidHorn]

After xD, I really didn't think that portable memory would get any smaller. I mean, I still regularly loose my CF cards. I don't know what I'd be like with these things.

[KyleC]

All in all, we need to keep CF & SD, but kill MMC, MS, MS-DUO, xD, and RS-MMCTM. Two memory formats for PDAs and cameras is all we need (or want, for that matter)
I bet those are the two you use, too. :-) They're what I use, and I agree, but I bet that people using Smart Media (which you forgot) or Memory Stick would disagree.

Also, what happened to the original standard -- PCMCIA? I still have a 48 MB PCMCIA card that I bought to back up my Sharp Mobilon Handheld PC on. I also used it on my iPAQ 3870, but the backup got too big. :-)

Steve

I only use SD (because that's the only type of memory in my handheld), but it would be a VERY foolish move to suggest eliminating CF on THESE boards. :)

[Debbie]

Hello,
Do anyone knows what products already have the RS-MMC on?
Though it said that the products in already launched, it seems it is not sold as an individule product in the market.
Any one can help me? :D [/b]