New Antitrust Charges Brew

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,106995,tk,dn111502X,00.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.pcworld.com/news/article...n111502X,00.asp</a><br /><br /></div>When I first heard about this, I thought it was a joke - but it seems it's not.<br /><br />"The European Commission is considering a new antitrust case against Microsoft, suspecting the software giant is trying to leverage its dominance of PC operating systems into the market for mobile phone software, say sources familiar with the regulator...The EU competition regulator is concerned that Microsoft might take over the market for mobile phone software, according to a senior advisor to the European Commission. "Mobile phones are a very important market in Europe. The Commission is worried that Microsoft might take advantage of the strength of Windows in order to dominate in mobile phones," he said. By leveraging its might into mobile telephony, Microsoft might reduce the role of mobile phones to mere conduits for its software, just as computer makers complain it has done with PCs."<br /><br />Sure, Microsoft has done some un-ethical things in the past, but how can this Commission take action before Microsoft has done anything? In the mobile phone market, they're just a blip right now - they've just launched the first Smartphone 2002 with Orange, and it will be at least a few quarters before we can see how they're doing. How can you lay charges against a company before they do anything in a market? Who's next, Amiga? This statement is the most telling however:<br /><br />"When mobile phones become Internet-compatible, the phone operators want to become the Internet gatekeepers for their customers. The .Net initiative would undermine their role in the relationship with those customers, the lawyer said."<br /><br />So it boils down to this: the mobile carriers feel threatened that they'll be reduced to being bit pipes, and they're pushing the European Commission to protect them from something that hasn't happened yet. There's self confidence! :roll: Perhaps instead of hiding behind bureaucracy they should try adding services and solutions that will benefit their customers...

[Wuss912]

So it boils down to this: the mobile carriers feel threatened that they'll be reduced to being bit pipes.

they already are bit-pipes

[Jason Dunn]

they already are bit-pipes

Yes, but they also have WAP portals, control SMS gateways, etc - they're struggling to find revenues from every source possible. If cell phones were truly first-class citizens on the 'Net, carriers would ONLY be bit pipes, and that's what scares them...

[szamot]

Most Telcos around the world are in pretty bad shape - European Telcos are worse off. Last year one of them was trying to raise $10B for infrastructure and upgrades and offered 9.9% return on the money. After 11 months they managed to get $1B. I guess no one is interested in pumping money into Telcos and getting nothing in return. G3 was an expansive proposition that has not even put a dent on the cost of deployment so I surprises me very little that they are grasping for straws to stay alive. I bet in 5 years we will have 4-6 world wide Telcos that will control the globe. Don’t believe me look at MCI WC, Telus and the like. Weasels – it is 21st century and we still don’t have ADSL everywhere, or reliable 1x so much for being connected.

[dr_skinner]

So it boils down to this: the mobile carriers feel threatened that they'll be reduced to being bit pipes, and they're pushing the European Commission to protect them from something that hasn't happened yet.

These are not only the mobile carriers but Nokia, Ericsson, Symbian - they are European companies. There is a huge lobby against Microsoft on the mobile market in Europe and they are going to pull all government strings to keep US companies out. I bet Sendo dumped Smartphone for political rather than technical reasons.

[Kevin Daly]

As with the Sun/Oracle/AOL gang, it's litigation in the place of competition.
And in this case bizarrely enough, using bogus spectres of unfair market domination to protect monopolies (or oligopolies?).

[Andy Sjostrom]

Give me a "B"
Give me an "I"
Give me a "T"
Give me a "P"
Give me an "I"
Give me a "P"
Give me an "E"

What do I get?

BITPIPE! :lol:

[Kirkaiya]

While I'm certainly not jumping to the defense of the European Commission, I would like to point out that, while you say they are complaining about things that haven't happened yet:

1. In the instances where antitrust suits were sucessfully brought against Microsoft (the big anti-trust case just settled, for example, where Microsoft was found guilty of violating U.S. anti-trust statutes), by the time the "punishment" was meeted out, it was essentially already game-over for any competitors who were hurt. So, perhaps, if you don't "pre-emptively" sue, then you might as well not bother to sue at all. (and, lest we forget, Microsoft's guilty verdict was upheld by an appellate court - only the punishment (breakup) was overturned).

2. We may not know everything that's happened. Innocent until proven guilty, yes, but we just have no idea what happened yet.

I'm leaning towards thinking the EC is jumping from paranoia, since it wouldn't seem MSFT would have a lot of bullying power in the mobile-phone market, but I'm not willing to say that filing a suit is completely unjustified, given some of their (Microsoft's) past behavior.

That said, I still love Pocket PC, and think it's a way better platform for PDAs than anything else I've seen (just thought I better try to flame-proof myself by making my loyalties clear!!!)

[DaleReeck]

Filing a suit would be completely unjustified. This isn't "Minority Report" where we are stomping on people or companies before the fact.

Besides, I don't know how European mobile companies are, but if they have the customer service of our US companies, then they deserve to be only bitpipes.

[JornadaJ]

There is a huge lobby against Microsoft on the mobile market in Europe and they are going to pull all government strings to keep US companies out. I bet Sendo dumped Smartphone for political rather than technical reasons.

We *could* label them an outlaw regime, get U.N. backing for a resolution, and send in inspectors under the threat of force. That would get them to play nice...

*It is meant to be sarcasm, I am not advocating the invasion of Europe over Smartphone.*

[enemy2k2]

I just hope I don't have to love Bill Gates and Steve Balmer and the entire MS team just because I use any of their products? Sheesh, sounds like no ones allowed to have preferences anymore...

I want to buy a Pocket PC and use it and enjoy it, not become part of a cult...

:D

Sorry for spoiling the love fest, but it just felt a bit creepy... 8O

Snap out of it guys! :P

MS is a big company, they can handle a suit no problem. It's not like anyone here has major shares involved.... or do they? :twisted:

[sponge]

Too early.. for all we know, Smartphone could be a flop. Though I suppose since the breakup did close to nothing, this could be a different way to try and split MS.

I don't blame them for going after MS, celluar industry is lacking at the moment, and the last thing they need is a 500 pound gorilla willing to lose large amounts of money (XBox?) to get their product in the mainstream, but they should've waited a little bit.

[enemy2k2]

I still think we need this 500 pound gorilla or the lack of innovation would drive everyone crazy. Watch how fast phone makers start trying to pump out better hardware now that this threat looms over their heads. Business is business. As a consumer I want to see what's best for me and for economies. I have no vested interest in any particular company, nor do I plan to...unless I own stock - in which case I would be quite vocal :D

[someppcuser]

Better Safe than sorry...WinXP would be a great OS if there wasn't all these rubish software that you cannot take out and all these spywares.
MS does not play nice, that's a fact. It could just make great software for phones, but it just wants more. I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of years, Windows becomes a requirement to use a smartphone. You'll have to activate your phone which will only work with your Desktop Longhorn ;).

[icatar]

MS is a big company, they can handle a suit no problem. It's not like anyone here has major shares involved.... or do they?

Yes they can handle the suit with no problem. But I'd rather they spend their money on research and development than on lawyers!

[enemy2k2]

That money wouldn't be spent on R&D any way. As for MS wanting everything...isn't that the goal of every company? Just a lot aren't very good at it so they end up having to downsize. The only way to deal with big companies is through legal avenues. At least with a suit everyone will know where they stand and have some ground rules established. Keep in mind MS is not a person, it's just an enormously massive company...

[T-Will]

Do "Thought Police" or "1984" ring a bell...? :roll:

[mookie123]

I swear, somebody should just by pass this entire phone company thingy and do everything on unlicensed wave.

where are all those EE genius, somebody must know how to cramp bit wirelesly using just kitchen appliances and military surplus equipments...

[ThomasC22]

My problem here is that I don’t see the correlation between Phones and PCs. Sure, Microsoft is trying to make a direct correlation but to date one does not exist (e.g. you can own a Cell. Phone and not have or need a PC).

So, in other words, Microsoft was guilty in the case of Netscape because Netscape needed Windows to run on the great majority of PCs and so Microsoft could then use Windows to kill Netscape (Namely by bundling a browser into Windows so consumers would have no reason to go looking for Netscape). How does this condition exist in the Cell. Phone industry?

Unless European Anti-Trust laws are vastly different than those in the U.S. there really isn’t a case here. Not only would the EU have to prove that Microsoft COULD leverage Windows to gain ground in the Cell. Phone market but they would also have to prove that said leverage would then negatively impact consumers (which using the PC model as a guide it wouldn’t).

The truly sad part though is that the EU might just go ahead with this any simply because many Cell. Phone manufacturers and all European Telcos are based in Europe where as Microsoft is a U.S. based company.

Politics :roll:

[enemy2k2]

Sure they killed Netscape, but on the upside we all got free browsers out of it :lol: Plus the open source people got the code for Mozilla. Win-win :wink:

[sponge]

I'd just be concerned if I were the other companies - MS justhas a history of not playing fair.

I do agree when another poster about the whole cult comment.

[Kirkaiya]

We *could* label them an outlaw regime, get U.N. backing for a resolution, and send in inspectors under the threat of force. That would get them to play nice...


See, now THAT's what i call "thinking outside the box"!! Brilliant!

lol

[sweetpete]

I'd just be concerned if I were the other companies - MS justhas a history of not playing fair.

I do agree when another poster about the whole cult comment.

Oh yeah, I guess Nokia, Ericsson, and the large Telcos (TMobile, Orange, BT, etc.) all have a great history of playing fair :roll: phuleeezzz

The fact of the matter is the these companies are in oligopoly. They dominate the markets (especially Nokia) and are afraid to have Microsoft enter their stomping ground.

The cell manufacturers have been dragging their feet for years introducing more capable phones. As soon as MS announced Stinger/Smartphone and PPC PE, you get a flurry of activity from the manufacturers.

MS didn't enter these markets, because the technology wasn't mature enough. Now the hardware technology and capabilities have caught up, as well as the ability to deliver decent data speeds to the devices. MS sees mobility to be key and the future of the computing world and they want to establish their presence. The manufacturers need to start looking at the platforms they are developing and ensure that they are compatible with users' data needs.

With regards to the Telco's, their business model is weak unfortunately. Until now, they have been working with cell phone manufacturers (which also happen to be cellular infrastructure manufacturers) to control the technology available to the consumer. This has allowed them to reap in huge $$$ off of the VAS they provide (SMS, MMS, WAP, iMode, etc.). Now, there is a platform that allows the consumer a choice as to where and how they get many of these services because they have access to the Internet in a much richer device. Other companies can provide many of the things Telco's have had a lock, and provide improvements much quicker and cheaper.

This has the Telco's terrified and they are running to legislators scared as hell. I can't blame them, but this is the nature of the beast. Our use of things like telephones, Internet and media are evolving as the lines between them get blurred. It's the new millennium and with it come new realities. Fortunately for MS, they are well placed to deliver and they've had the vision and money to do it. Things like web services and .Net are just starting to take shape and provide the infrastructure to deliver the goods.

I've preached long 'nuf :oops:

[Jonathon Watkins]

....I am not advocating the invasion of Europe over Smartphone.*

Very glad to hear it! :eek:
:agrue: :2gunfire: :snipersmile: :usa

[garrans]

I don't blame MS for trying to get in on the mobile market, but it seems that there is a big protectionist economy play going down here. "Stop the non euro provider," but thats who votes in Europe.

I have a couple of points:

a) Try and innovate and market: I'm sorry but when did you last see an non MS operating system desktop from Europe somewhere real. Take a look at Apple's recent campaign, they're not complaining about MS's power, they're doing something about it.

b) Stay away from government protection, its bad long term.
Also, did you notice Palm going to the US goverment before it started saying "Hey, need you to protect my market, because there are some guys out there in Europe and Redmond who might try and use their leverage against me. No, they got out and built a product and sold it, they're running tough now, but some of their current problems are their own making.

Another one, did Sony try and stop the CD from being brought to market, because it would kill the walkman. No, they just made a CD walkman.

c) Who really is the problem.
Lets get real folks, in whose best interest is it to stop MS Smartphone from being introduced, is it really Nokia, no its Symbian.... when did MS actually build a phone or computer.

And where is the telco's problem with having MS in the phone ? "Because they're going to develop the software that stops us from making the money." Ummm I don't care if I connect to my web service from a java app or an MS app as long as I can do it.


Finally:
Eventually, the telco's will have to start pricing their service based on volume of data transferred, not because MS took away their market and said so, but because the world said so.

Because one of the competing telco's realized that the best way to attract customers was to have a browser that could access anything and everything.... and openess was the way to attract the customers.

[enemy2k2]

I'm just hoping this shakes up the entire industry. LET'S GET MOVING ALREADY!!! :D Nokia is losing ground fast to Sony-Ericsson in europe. Nokia snoozed too long. Sony Ericsson still isn't doing as well as it could. MS phones should shake these slackers up a bit. I'd like to see a nice competition, everyone will be better off for it. Why does it always take a software company like MS to slap hardware vendors around a bit to get them to build half way decent things?

[ThomasC22]

It does make you think...the three biggest cell. phone manufacturers (at the time) band together to only support a single platform that they've created...doesn't THAT sound like leveraging their advantage...maybe the EU should take a look at that!

[Techtoys]

Go for it - Seriously.

Actually, all I wanted to say was that if you have the cash you can get the EU to do anything - so companies lobbying against MS might get a shock if Bill gets his chequebook out.

[Coralie]

i'm absolutely ready to be told that i don't have a lack of knowlege in this matter, but i'll have my say anyway & retract my statements if someone can explain it so that it makes more sense to me.

why is it that when a company does well, people are wanting to cut them down? let me get this straight, ms does well, they take a big hold on the market, then all the other companies start whinging, "it's not fair! my product isn't doing as well .. make ms stop!! waaaaah!!" :cry:

if a product is better or not is irrelevant in the marketplace .. if they market the product better, then it'll win. from what i've been told, betamax was a better system than vhs, but vhs won out because they marketed the product better. so .. ms is better at marketing than the other companies. it's a tough business world out there.

bill gates won. congratulations to him, i say. he's achieved a lot & has done what he's had to do to come out on top.

do i have this wrong? tell me if i do, because if i don't have it wrong, then surely it's simply a case of sour grapes & the losers being losers. :?:

[Janak Parekh]

Oh yeah, I guess Nokia, Ericsson, and the large Telcos (TMobile, Orange, BT, etc.) all have a great history of playing fair :roll: phuleeezzz
Well put, sweetpete. The monopolistic behaviors with respect to Windows on the desktop may or may not have helped consumers, but more competition in the smartphone market can only help consumers. It'll force Symbian to evolve and see faster adoption, else it will disappear. Microsoft could be the best thing that happens to the European mobile market, even if they don't "win".

--bdj

[enemy2k2]

You tell 'em BigDaddyJ! Only good things happen when companies fight it out amongst one another:) Let MS spend their cash on legal fees (spend it on something for once), it'll win, but I'd like to see them all duke it out. For ferrous, that's just how business works, you do whatever you can;)