Will You Buy the HP 5450? [Archive] - Thoughts Media Forums

danmanmayer

11-14-2002, 08:06 PM

When is a high end phone device coming out. We still have 206 mhz phones i have been waiting for a 400 mhz phone for a long time now. Is HP going to release a high end phone? I mean the 5450 sounds great all this wireless connectivity but no phone connectivity. I will pay $750 to get a pocekt pc cell phone with the capabilities of the 5450.... Or take off the biometrics (which finger print scanners are easy to fake) and the digital camera and i would get a high end pocekt pc phone for maybe as little at $600. So does anyone know when a device like this is coming and who it is coming from?

Sven Johannsen

11-14-2002, 08:09 PM

Nah, it's not the price. Just looks to much like an iPAQ. Still satisfied by my Jornada. :wink:

disconnected

11-14-2002, 08:16 PM

I voted no, because of no CF slot, but I'd probably change my mind if either Sprint or Verizon would offer a bluetooth phone....in my lifetime.

Janak Parekh

11-14-2002, 08:17 PM

I voted no, because of no CF slot, but I'd probably change my mind if either Sprint or Verizon would offer a bluetooth phone....in my lifetime.
Well, if the iPaq 5000 series 1xRTT ever comes out, that would be a Bluetooth phone, right? Or is it only slated to be data?

But in general - yeah, I know what you mean - I'm using a T68 here in NYC not because T-Mobile's network is superior, but because the T68 has Bluetooth.

--bdj

Jorgen

11-14-2002, 08:27 PM

Pay for the facilities? Yes. But it looks awful, so I am unlikely to buy it!

Were I to buy something now, I would buy the Toshiba e740 with Wi-Fi - I don't need BT anyway. I have slowly started to convince myself that my 568 must be retired real soon now.

Jorgen

dochall

11-14-2002, 08:29 PM

Maybe. TBH I don't have a problem with the price and I have been waiting for a combined WIFI and BT device.

But I do have a problem with the 5450 running on PPC2k2.

I replaced stolen 3660 with another just prior to the 3870 coming out. I already had the 3870 on order. The dogs breakfast that the upgrade to the 3660 put me off but not as much as Compaq's arrogant attitude to the upgrade.

I would really like to wait for the next release of the PPC OS prior to the upgrade but does anybody have a scooby when that will be?

Paul P

11-14-2002, 08:33 PM

The way the question of the survey is posed will not really give us objective results. You can’t really mesh the high and low priced devices into one category. If money was of no object, then there wouldn’t be a reason for this poll in the first place, IMO. Some people will vote ‘No’ simply because they never planned to (or just can’t) spend that much money on a PocketPC, period. I am in the group of those who can’t spend that much on a PocketPC right now for obvious reasons (invested way too much into my current iPaq and it would cost me a lot to upgrade). The survey should ask a question more like “Are you willing to spend $600-700 on the new iPaq provided you planned to spend that much money on a PocketPC anyways?” Or “Is it worth spending that much money for the new iPaq provided you have that money and have no qualms about spending it?”

brntcrsp

11-14-2002, 08:50 PM

The primary reason I voted no is because I'm super happy with my Jornada 568, and I don't see the next HP devices being more of an improvement than this device. Once I begin to see greater performance gains with XScale and the Pocket PC, a new operating system, and more ubiquitous GPRS/CDMA coverage in my area then I will probably jump the instant it hits the shelf.

That said I really like the new iPaq, and that's quite the statement for me. I've hated the form factor for years, but this latest iteration is coming closer to something I could live with. I think the $700 price point will stand up, espcially noting all the features.

MooseMaster

11-14-2002, 09:03 PM

Everyone should buy a TabletPC ...

I'm betting the H5450 will be $550, though. But that's still too much for me.

Maybe at $450, but I just got my H3955 last summer (4 months ago)

dochall

11-14-2002, 09:10 PM

Everyone should buy a TabletPC ...

Well I am, if the darn thing ever arrives but I will still have a PPC the two things are complementary rather than competitive.

Ojster

11-14-2002, 09:13 PM

I hope they are going to release a version without the fingerprint scanner - I saw it on some of the photos. I am convinced that fingerprint technology is not as good as I would like it to be. There are recognition problems... and it takes time - I don't know how it will be with the iPAQ but it's not for me. I prefer RFID or eye scanner ;) fingerprint scanners will die... I guess I don't need this extra functionality and would thus prefer it to be a few USD cheaper.
I am also waiting to see at what price the GSM/GPRS device will sell. My mobile phone is in need to be replaced and perhaps I won't have to walk around with two devices anymore 8)

We just have to wait and we'll see.

Regards,
Peter
------------------------
http://www.ojster.com

Ojster

11-14-2002, 09:16 PM

Everyone should buy a TabletPC ...

Well I am, if the darn thing ever arrives but I will still have a PPC the two things are complementary rather than competitive.

I agree - I guess tablet PC is going to replace notebooks and even Desktop PCs but not PocketPCs. I am certainly one of those who'd replace my desktop box with a nice powerfull tablet PC with a 2GHz CPU :wink:

RobertCF

11-14-2002, 09:22 PM

Tablet PC? Eeewwww. I haven't seen one yet I'm impressed with, and I'm not attracted to the concept regardless. And who wants to have a tablet hanging off their belt?

As far as the 54xx, the high end 39xx are pretty much running in that price range already--but they weren't nearly as much of an improvement over the 36xx as the 54xx will be. The fact that the 54xx will allow continued use of the sleeves is the big selling point to me. My 3630 is still going strong and has long since replaced my notebooks for out of the office work. Of course, I'd rather NOT spend $700 for a PDA, but I think I can justify getting the 5450 if it's closer to $600.

xbalance

11-14-2002, 09:22 PM

mashtim

11-14-2002, 09:26 PM

Combining Bluetooth and WiFi in the same device makes it VERY appealing. This would mean that I'd be connected wherever I go!

The biometric doohickey? Fahgeddabouddit. Who needs it? My CIA days are long gone over.

$700 ?!?!?!?!?!? NFW!! Price it at $400-500 and I'll eat my investment in the e740. Oh, wait, no I won't! I have a CF slot that I can put a Socket card in and have the same functionality! And I can still use my CF camera! Woo hoo! Maybe I'll use the SD slot instead. Oh, the humanity!

But wait! I wouldn't have the ability to use my PPC as a remote control! Aw shucks! :P

Aw, heck, who am I kidding? I love getting new toys! I'll probably end up getting one.

donkthemagicllama

11-14-2002, 09:39 PM

no built in CF ---> not worth it at any price

enemy2k2

11-14-2002, 09:48 PM

For anyone but ultra power users and those with big chequebooks I think their heart may say yes to the high priced IPaqs, but their minds will definitely say no. Why? Simply because we've been spoiled with all these new lower priced offerings coming out that are competitive power wise and expansion wise - they're not even released yet and so many are converts. Money talks. The more you spend the lower the performance:price ratio gets, just as in luxury cars. I for one am glad that some companies are stepping up to the plate and looking to spoil us, it's about darn time.

anthonymoody

11-14-2002, 09:55 PM

I would (and may) pay this much for the GSM/GPRS version. For WiFi + BT it's just not worth it to me.

TM

Gremmie

11-14-2002, 10:10 PM

Um...what did I pay for my Toshiba when it first came out? $499 or $599? If i paid 599 ($600) I think I just dropped my CompUSA warrentied Toshiba, looks like I can choose from a picking of 599 devices :)

szamot

11-14-2002, 10:11 PM

The reason I voted no is because I am done shelling out this much for Compaq "quality" device when there are other options that are less expensive.
Now if majority of the geeks on this site are not interested in this device who is going to be pushing and buying this. Perhaps HP should trim about $200-$300 off of fat on this baby and then we will talk...nice try though. I don't think this one will enjoy the same popularity as the new VS or Dell.

masaki

11-14-2002, 10:11 PM

I'll buy it *IF* the OS is optimized to take advantage of the Xscale's 400MHz speed. I'm still very happy with my 3970 :wink: so... no rush to get another device running in emulation.

Janak Parekh

11-14-2002, 10:11 PM

Khufu1

11-14-2002, 10:21 PM

I would if I did not have a 3970 already. I don't use 802.11 much and when I do I use a pccard nic. Only added feature for me then is the fingerprint scanner. I am waiting for GPRS. Much more useful.
JMT

adamz

11-14-2002, 10:32 PM

You need more choices in the survey there.
I'd pay whatever for the GSM/GPRS/Bluetooth version. Don't need the WiFi/Bluetooth one.

xbalance

11-14-2002, 10:32 PM

What does it mean that 2/3 of the people on this site vote NO and 1/3 vote Yes, other than just that.
Actually, I'm pleasantly surprised at the number of people saying yes. That 175 people have already said "yes" is a testament to the fact that a lot of people are willing to overlook the cheap deals out there and spend $699 on a device. Considering this is the absolute high-end of PPC's, that's a pretty substantial marketshare.

--bdj

I think that this number is higher than what we will see in the market place because of the people that are attracted to this web site. I think HP will be lucky to grab 15% of the new PPC sales with this unit. Any increases will be because they are cannibalizing their other products.

vetteguy

11-14-2002, 10:35 PM

I would pay that much ONLY for a Wi-Fi/Phone model...nothing less.

safelder

11-14-2002, 10:37 PM

I'm getting it as my first Pocket PC (switching from Palm after 5 years), so I'm not heavily invested in any pre-existing hardware. I figure I may as well buy the top of the line machine--I've played with the 3900 series machines, the e740, and the e550G, and I've concluded that the screen, extra ROM, and remote control feature are nice to have, even at a premium. Dual integrated wireless (I have the Microsoft BT keyboard and mouse, and will be going to 802.11b when I move into my new house in a few weeks) is nice as well. And I'm guessing that the fingerprint scanner will fall into the same category as the remote control software: sounds gimmicky, but is REAL nice once you've played with it.

ThomasC22

11-14-2002, 10:42 PM

I voted no, because of no CF slot, but I'd probably change my mind if either Sprint or Verizon would offer a bluetooth phone....in my lifetime.

My sentiments exactly, This phone is really not worth the price that's being charged for it, but to finally have a seamless wireless experience, I would give it a try.

Although, my main conern here is battery life, built in wireless is a serious drain and I just don't think this device is up to it.

ThomasC22

11-14-2002, 10:47 PM

I think that this number is higher than what we will see in the market place because of the people that are attracted to this web site. I think HP will be lucky to grab 15% of the new PPC sales with this unit. Any increases will be because they are cannibalizing their other products.

Exactly, the problem is these people who are saying yes have probably already bought an expensive PDA and are going to have to eat that investment. I just don't see it happening.

Plus, I still say the biometric scanner is a waste for most people. I believe it is nice to add as an option but suicide to add as a mandatory feature.

ThomasC22

11-14-2002, 10:48 PM

PhatCohiba

11-14-2002, 10:54 PM

Last Christmas I bought a 3835 ($599) + Socket WiFi ($150) + 128mb sd card ($130).

I'm not buying anything this Christmas without a new version of the PPC OS.

Next Christmas I would consider a new device if it had the majority of the following.

(Bluetooth Sprint 3G phone) + Bluetooth PPC.

USB host support (so I could run attach a USB Mouse/ Keyboard/printer/ cell modem / Wifi /etc.)

Built in WiFi

Built in Ppc Phone edition on Sprint 3g

1 gb memory card

etc.

I would expect these things to all be $300 or less by next Christmas, last year was my leading edge year, I'm skipping this one.

RaySPNL

11-14-2002, 11:01 PM

I would pay that much only if it had more than 256 of ram, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, Phone and GPS.

Paragon

11-14-2002, 11:08 PM

2/3 of the people voting here are saying NO.....I don't think this is a good thing for HP. If you think about it, this site is full of power users. The people that should be interested in this product. If you were to survey people going into Radio Shack using the same question that gap would be even wider, but here on a site like this, if I were HP I would want to see a much narrower margin

I don't think there are too many of us surprised at this though. I think we all new Humpty Dumpty was about to have a great fall. :-)

Dave

h3660

11-14-2002, 11:11 PM

I WISH I could buy a H5450 for $700... Where I come from we pay $1000 for a 3870. :cry:

Consider yourselves lucky....

Ainvar

11-14-2002, 11:21 PM

I will never pay over 500 for a PPC PDA again. The iPAQ 3835 and Toshiba e550G were it for me. I will play with dells since it is way under 500 for there top of the line and the only thing I may be losing on that deal is what no SDIO and a 3.5 screen instead of a 3.8 screen. What is lacking in the PPC market right now unless you pay the huge bucks is good battery performance. When I see that I will drop some change on it, but until then you will see stay within the proven technology area instead of bleeding edge.

ThomasC22

11-14-2002, 11:27 PM

2/3 of the people voting here are saying NO.....I don't think this is a good thing for HP. If you think about it, this site is full of power users. The people that should be interested in this product. If you were to survey people going into Radio Shack using the same question that gap would be even wider, but here on a site like this, if I were HP I would want to see a much narrower margin

Well, and I also say, "willing to buy" does not actually mean "going to buy" which would probably make the number even lower.

Ed Hansberry

11-14-2002, 11:32 PM

What does it mean that 2/3 of the people on this site vote NO and 1/3 vote Yes, other than just that.

I think it means:
- HP is not going to be the number one PPC seller for much longer
- Dell is going to be the number one PPC seller
- The Red Wings are going to win the Stanley Cup again this year when Steve Y comes back

Glad I checked the site today, I was worried about my Wings 8)

I don't know what it means. :roll: Unfortunately, some are voting NO when NO to them means they are happy with their Pocket PC and have no plans to upgrade at all, not at all the question Jason was asking.

Paragon

11-14-2002, 11:55 PM

that_kid

11-15-2002, 12:14 AM

At first I wanted one but after looking at what it offers I can see that I'm good with the 3970 that I have now. If they added a cf slot or 128 megs of internal ram then I would jump on it. I really wanted BT and that's why I got the 3970 and i've been happy with it. I've been through every ipaq offering and the 5400 just doesn't offer enough for me to shell out more $$ for. I'd rather take that cash and use it for something else like software to administer my windows 2000 network from my ipaq while abroad. I really would like to have wifi built in but not at HP's price.

ThomasC22

11-15-2002, 12:27 AM

When HP and Compaq merged HP owned 85% of the PPC market with the Jornada and the Ipaq. Does anyone think that HP is going to hold a even a majority of the market by years end? If they do it will be on the shoulders of the 1900 series, NOT the 5400 sereies. IMHO

Well, not to topic jump again, but I doubt that. At least the 5400 series has some advantages to it, the 1900 series to the best of my knowledge has not one singe advantage to purchasing it.

Jonathon Watkins

11-15-2002, 12:45 AM

Too much for not enough. Dual slots - or no deal.

Jeff Rutledge

11-15-2002, 01:24 AM

I've got a 3870. I didn't get a 3970 because I was holding off for the 5400's. Now that they're out, I'm not sure they're worth it.

I've been a big iPAQ fan since my first 3650, but this one is underwhelming to me so far. The fingerprint scanner is very cool, very high wow factor. Otherwise, I've pretty much got what it offers with my 3870 (BT) and PC Sleeve. I don't think it's worth the upgrade at this time.

Who knows, I might still, but before I do, I'll be waiting to see what issues there are with the thing. My 3870 is still uber-flaky with it's Bluetooth implementation. Plus the power off problem. I'd like HP/Compaq to spend some time fixing the current issues (but there's no money there I guess). Hopefully EUU3 will fix this stuff *without* causing a pile more problems.

enemy2k2

11-15-2002, 01:26 AM

If it had all these great features with this price point including gsm/gprs and I had the $$$. It would be a dream machine.... I like the muscular good looks of the unit as well. Fingerprint scanner, if it works well and does it's job, that's an excellent idea. Every single model should have BlueTooth even the gsm one, would be excellent if it had WiFi as well... but that's probably unreasonable. There's also lots of space available on the front frame of the device I noticed, I bet it wouldn't be tough for them to squeeze in a 4" screen on the thing, only .2" larger. They managed to squeeze in a 3.5"er in the tiny frame of the 1900. But I digress, I'm going to start off with Dell and hopefully when it's time for me to get a new unit the 5000 series will be in it's next generation and they'll have all this plus more. All this convergence is exciting, like watching evolution unfold.

bbarker

11-15-2002, 01:49 AM

When HP and Compaq merged HP owned 85% of the PPC market with the Jornada and the Ipaq. Does anyone think that HP is going to hold a even a majority of the market by years end? If they do it will be on the shoulders of the 1900 series, NOT the 5400 sereies. IMHO

What they should have done, given their love for their dear iPaq, was use that for their high end and retain the Jornada line for the low end instead of introducing the 1900. Then they might own the market. They would have all the bases covered.

There certainly is room for high-end Pocket PCs. But I not iPaqs in their original form factor. Their expansion path is too bulky and they don't have well-designed flip-up screen cover like the Jornada.

The original iPaqs had a couple of early advantages over the first Jornadas: speed and much better marketing. In pretty much every other area the Jornadas were superior. The later Jornada 560 series matched in speed when it came out (206MHz) and was superior in every way (form factor, expansion system, battery life and replaceability, professional appearance, etc.). But the iPaq owned the market by then so HP made the obvious choice if it had to keep only one product line. Now they're wisely milking it.

Again, there is a place for high-end Pocket PCs. And that's the end of the market I'm in. But I won't buy a high-end iPaq in their Star Trek form factor. Until that changes I'll keep my excellent Jornada 568 or watch for somebody else to come out with its replacement.

I'm sure HP (whose Pocket PC group is Compaq's iPaq division with, I suspect, nobody from the Jornada team) is working on a next generation high-end form factor. (At least I hope so. They can't seriously think the current design still makes sense.) But they have to keep building on their cash cow until then.

Paragon

11-15-2002, 02:34 AM

When HP and Compaq merged HP owned 85% of the PPC market with the Jornada and the Ipaq. Does anyone think that HP is going to hold a even a majority of the market by years end? If they do it will be on the shoulders of the 1900 series, NOT the 5400 sereies. IMHO

Well, not to topic jump again, but I doubt that. At least the 5400 series has some advantages to it, the 1900 series to the best of my knowledge has not one singe advantage to purchasing it.

It's arguable whether the 5400 series has advantages or not. Look at it as if they do. If you combine those advantages with the price, it only appeals to the very small minority of power users....and as we can see by the vote the vast majority of those seem to be voting against it. I think the 1900 does have some advantages over the 5400. 400 of them...all staying in my pocket if I was to buy one of these devices. Which is unlikley. I would rather spend my money on a Dell and get good value for my money.

This ain't no device that is going to fly off the shelves at the local Best Buy.

Dave

ThomasC22

11-15-2002, 03:33 AM

It's arguable whether the 5400 series has advantages or not. Look at it as if they do. If you combine those advantages with the price, it only appeals to the very small minority of power users....and as we can see by the vote the vast majority of those seem to be voting against it. I think the 1900 does have some advantages over the 5400. 400 of them...all staying in my pocket if I was to buy one of these devices. Which is unlikley. I would rather spend my money on a Dell and get good value for my money.

Well, I was actually comparing them to their nearest competition and not eachother (which I think is pointless since their aimed at completely different demographics).

The 5400 series does have advantages over it's nearest competitor, maybe advantages you'd never use, but they are there. This in my mind makes it more likely to generate sales than...

The 1900 Series, which has (as far as I can see) no advantage over the Viewsonic V35 and several disadvantages.

That's what I meant.

Paragon

11-15-2002, 03:51 AM

ThomasC22

Ok, but I don't think it makes much difference, if any. Most people don't want to PAY for the few andvantages there MAY be in the 5400 series.

One mistake computer people make is that they think like computer people. Most people using PPCs, in fact most people using computers aren't computer geeks. They simply use them as a tool, and a bit of a toy. Most people don't have WiFi at home....don't eveybody start jumping up and down saying I do, I do. Remember what I said, most people are not geeks who have that stuff at home. In fact most people's work place don't have WiFi. Most people do not own a bluetooth phone to pair it with. Most people use the remote that came with their TV. Most people aren't going to pay $700.00 for a device that has a bunch of stuff they will never use. They will pay $200.00-$300.00 for a device that does what they need, and go on a golfing holiday with what they have saved.

So, therefore it is going to be a very small select group of people who buy this device, compared to the millions that are going to by Dells, VeiwSonics, and the likes.

Dave

Duncan

11-15-2002, 04:15 AM

Most people do not own a bluetooth phone to pair it with.

That depends on where you live - in the UK the four biggest selling mobile phones currently all have BT built-in!

Most people don't have WiFi at home....

Perhaps not - BUT...

1) I can see things happening in reverse. Laptops are starting to come with WiFi built-in, if a PPC has it as well, more and more people will see that as an impetus to invest in WiFi for the home.

2) Pocket PC buyers are still not your average buyer - even with the new low end models this won't change quickly. They are more likely to be people interested in new technology - not geeks, just well informed!

They will pay $200.00-$300.00 for a device that does what they need, and go on a golfing holiday with what they have saved.

Well - someone needs to tell Palm and Sony that - 'cos an NX70V or Tungsten T - with their add-on WiFi cards - will equal or come close to the SR Price for the new iPAQs!

Paul P

11-15-2002, 04:50 AM

2/3 of the people voting here are saying NO.....I don't think this is a good thing for HP.

So, therefore it is going to be a very small select group of people who buy this device, compared to the millions that are going to by Dells, VeiwSonics, and the likes.
Dave

I don't see how this is a bad thing for HP. What results would you expect if say the survey asked about notebook computers?

Will you purchase the new IBM notebook at $XXXX to $XXXX?

I think we would probably see the exact same results. I mean, why would anyone in their right mind buy an IBM notebook and pay a huge premium when Dell will offer the same notebook for substantially less? Well, a lot of reasons. I personally do not find the results significant.

Paragon

11-15-2002, 05:10 AM

2/3 of the people voting here are saying NO.....I don't think this is a good thing for HP.

So, therefore it is going to be a very small select group of people who buy this device, compared to the millions that are going to by Dells, VeiwSonics, and the likes.
Dave

I don't see how this is a bad thing for HP.

Geeez Paul, I sure do! Just a few months ago people were voting with real dollars and 85% were saying yes to HP. Today they don't even have to put real dollars on the line, and hardly 30% are saying yes.

Dave

enemy2k2

11-15-2002, 05:22 AM

That's still quite a bit of market share. I think to business and professionals they'll put a lot more trust in this device because of the ipaq reputation. Not to mention unique features not available anywhere else. Sure it'll have a smaller market, but they'll still have their profits. They also have their low end unit to make up for the loss of sales and compete with the new low end.

Jonathan1

11-15-2002, 05:34 AM

I'll hold off on any X-Scale based Pocket PC purchases until MS releases an updated OS to take advantage of it.

Jeff Rutledge

11-15-2002, 05:36 AM

I'll hold off on any X-Scale based Pocket PC purchases until MS releases an updated OS to take advantage of it.

Exactly!

Janak Parekh

11-15-2002, 05:49 AM

I'll hold off on any X-Scale based Pocket PC purchases until MS releases an updated OS to take advantage of it.
... or until your current PPC wears out. (That is, you'll be waiting quite a while for MS to release an XScale upgrade, as it is their current policy not to... and we shouldn't get into this debate again...)

--bdj

Paul P

11-15-2002, 06:00 AM

Geeez Paul, I sure do! Just a few months ago people were voting with real dollars and 85% were saying yes to HP. Today they don't even have to put real dollars on the line, and hardly 30% are saying yes.Dave

Okay, where is the significance again? We are talking about a market just like any other. When a company succeeds, there is a fury of competition. Increases/decreases in market share is the endresult and that is to be expected. The market segment you are referring to is not something that is fixed. The lower-priced devices will attract consumers who weren't even thinking of purchasing a PocketPC up until now. Obviously Dell will gain significant market share. Even if Dell is going to sell millions, HP should not have any problems maintaining sales at its current pace. There is a reason why premiums exist (I guess my IBM analogy didn't really help me prove my point).

szamot

11-15-2002, 07:15 AM

I have to disagree with you. IBM makes wonderful notebooks and I personally would not trade my Stinkpad for anything in the world, OK that’s not true, I would like sooooooo prostitute myself for an Area 51m, but that’s another story. If you asked me 2 years ago I would say no thanks I like my Dell, that’s because I either did not know any better or because Dell satisfied my needs. The problem with Dell laptops that I have is that no matter what you get they are always think and cheap looking, they may be full of features but they do not have a good executive image associated with them and they always squeak. It is part of human nature to want something better all the time. I bet you 9.9 out of 10 executives in the world do not know what WiFi stands for, uhhh stereo stuff…. No they relay on people like us – who live for new toys, tools whatever the corporate lingo is that you use to justify buying these things. Executives like that will buy a Thinkpad or a Blackberry because they don’t want to look LESS in the big corporate lounge in the airport. They may or may not know how to use it but is it an image they are projecting. I will say this again if us the geeks are not interested in this new HP who will be buying this. Who will be pushing this on the executives that make these decisions.
Furthermore, I am personally a bit disappointed with my 3850 and the way the whole reliability issue was handled by Compaq and then HP, lets see what was that, oh yeah we will tell talk it over in the next meeting. RIGHT?
Furthermore still, we all know that if Dell and ViewSonic can make and sell a unit for $299 and make a profit on it – the BT and WiFi and finger scanner on the iPAQ is NOT worth another $300 - $400 more, providing it will even work. I hope the HP exec are looking at this poll and calling a meeting to discuss this outcome, here is a word of advice, nothing ever gets done in the boardroom, things get done by doing it not talking about it! I think that there are a lot of people who feel a bit cheated that their shiny new Toshiba or iPAQ was $x when in reality we now know that at least 50% of it was profit. That is kind of hard to swallow for the second time around. Sorry.

numo

11-15-2002, 01:04 PM

I'll probably buy it, as I still have a 3630. None of the devices available now has enough features to convince me to upgrade, but the builtin Wi-Fi together with the BT might be what I was waiting for.

The lack of the CF slot is unfortunate, but I needed it basically for three things - the additional storage (no SD in 3630), the Wi-Fi card and occasionally a CF VGA or ethernet card. With SD cards now offering enough space for me and with Wi-Fi built in this means I can do without the sleeve 99% of the time. With BT built-in I can communicate with my BT-enabled phone instead of messing with the infrared. And when I need the CF, I can still use the CF sleeve I have.

I don't care about the biometric security.

Now the price will be interesting. The $600-$700 are OK for me, but I'm afraid it will be more expensive in Europe. I am not going to spend EUR 900... In any case, I'll wait for the first user reports - no preorder.

Paragon

11-15-2002, 02:15 PM

Furthermore still, we all know that if Dell and ViewSonic can make and sell a unit for $299 and make a profit on it – the BT and WiFi and finger scanner on the iPAQ is NOT worth another $300 - $400 more, providing it will even work.

szamot

Your point, I think is a very important point to consider. If I was a person who was interested in those feature (interested, not must have) I would very quickly see that compared to other devices out there that don't have them integrated, the price difference is far to wide. I'm being severely overcharged for these few features.,

Now if they were MUST have for me, and I was forced to buy this device, it would leave a very bad taste in my mouth knowing that I was held over a barrel and overcharged for it. There is a very fine line between market value, and over charging, and very often it gets missed. In my opinion, here it got missed.

HP is being rather crafty here. On one hand they are offering the 1900 to help keep market share, BUT, on the other hand they are trying desperately to hold the market up with the 5400 series. I think they should be careful here....they may get burned.

But then again what do I know, I'm an Artisan working with wood. These guys are pros at what they do. :)

Dave

Paragon

11-15-2002, 02:20 PM

hmmm double post...can't delete.....

xbalance

11-15-2002, 03:44 PM

OK, this survey was fun, but I think a different survey would be even more interesting.

Which are you planning to do in the next 6 months:
1. Buy a Dell Axiom 400MHz
2. Buy a Dell Axiom 300MHz
3. Buy a ViewSonic v35
4. Buy a HP Ipaq 5450
5. Buy a HP Ipaq 1910
6. Buy a Toshiba e33x
7. Buy a Toshiba e740 or 550g
8. Buy an older iPaq (39xx, 38xx, etc)
9. Buy a different PPC than listed above (Zayo, Loox, etc)
10. Not buy any PPC
11. Buy a PALM based product

It would be interesting to see how well this group can predict the numbers that are published in 6 months.

I love this site, keep up the great work team! :werenotworthy:

enemy2k2

11-15-2002, 04:40 PM

But then again what do I know, I'm an Artisan working with wood. These guys are pros at what they do. :)

Dave

Apparently the inventors of Palm designed their device based on a block of wood they carved and were carrying around :o

For me price:performance ratio is very important, I definitely do not want to feel ripped off. Though I think there still is a premium market, especially with executives simply because of brand name. They're willing to pay, and this is good. It drive even more innovation next time around.

enemy2k2

11-15-2002, 04:42 PM

OK, this survey was fun, but I think a different survey would be even more interesting.

Which are you planning to do in the next 6 months:
2. Buy a Dell Axiom 300MHz

It would be interesting to see how well this group can predict the numbers that are published in 6 months.

I love this site, keep up the great work team! :werenotworthy:

I'm really seriously going for #2. Best price:performance ratio. It's not wether one can afford something more or not. The question is, should you?

Merlion

11-15-2002, 05:20 PM

... I will play with dells since it is way under 500 for their top of the line and the only thing I may be losing on that deal is what no SDIO and ...
Why does the dual-slot Axim need an SDIO slot? Currently, the CF-slot is the only practical & essential I/O port for devices like modems, GPS devices, Wi-Fi cards, Ethernet cards, Bluetooth cards, data phone cards, digital cameras, IR booster, etc. Unless & until SD has these devices, CF is still the only practical I/O port, & the smaller SD is best used for memory, afterall, even if the Axim's SD-slot is SDIO, it's not practical to have SD I/O devices sticking out the side of the Axim, since its SD-slot is located at its side, like the LOOX.
For single SD-slot devices, then yeah SDIO will be important for some semblance of an I/O port, for BT SD cards & others that might be released in the future.

What is lacking in the PPC market right now unless you pay the huge bucks is good battery performance. When I see that I will drop some change on it, but until then you will see stay within the proven technology area instead of bleeding edge.
The Dell Axims have the highest-capacity stock battery for PPCs, although they're the cheapest machines.

As for the H5450, for those looking for integrated Wi-Fi, there's only the H5450 & e740 to choose from, & those that wanted integrated Wi-Fi & BT, it's the only one available. Before, if a new top-of-the-line iPaq like this is going for $700, it's fathomable, since the H3970/H3975 initial price was like what $749? But now, with strong competitions from Dell, etc., $700 seemed quite excessive. I'm thinking that for someone to want integrated Wi-Fi in the H5450, the person probably uses Wi-Fi frequently & already has a Wi-Fi CF, so it's not like the person will save on a Wi-Fi or BT card. Hopefully, the competition will drive down the prices of the high-end iPaqs. Lower prices's great, whether you're willing to fork out $700 or not. So it doesn't hurt to keep complaining about the price & send a msg to HP that their prices are exorbitant. Although of course if people kept snatching up the $700 machines, HP'll continue to sell them at that rate. For those that do not like the iPaqs, all these are of course non-issues; why pay more when you can get what you like for less. Your choices will probably send the clearest msg to HP.

szamot

11-15-2002, 06:56 PM

I think the question should be: Given you PPC experiance would you, again, shell out $700 for a run of the mill iPAQ?

Paul P

11-15-2002, 07:00 PM

szamot,

Executives like that will buy a Thinkpad or a Blackberry because they don’t want to look LESS in the big corporate lounge in the airport. They may or may not know how to use it but is it an image they are projecting.

That is an excellent point. However, you must consider why they even have such a predisposition toward IBM notebooks? IBM name was not established overnight. Whether they are buying the notebooks based on the name or the image of the company still does not take away from the fact that they are buying IBM notebooks. Dell/Compaq/HP have had the last 10 years to change their image.

I hope the HP exec are looking at this poll and calling a meeting to discuss this outcome, here is a word of advice, nothing ever gets done in the boardroom, things get done by doing it not talking about it! I think that there are a lot of people who feel a bit cheated that their shiny new Toshiba or iPAQ was $x when in reality we now know that at least 50% of it was profit. That is kind of hard to swallow for the second time around. Sorry.

Again, same can be said about the notebooks, but that is the changing nature of the business. The fact that Toshiba charged a premium, whatever that percentage may be, doesn't really apply. When e740 came out at $600, it was the only PocketPC with the built-in Wifi. That was then and this is now. I don't remember many people complaining about the price of e740 when it came out. I believe the reaction was quite the opposite as a matter of fact.

You are right that not much is done in the boardroom. However, there is not much to be done considering that they cannot possibly fullfill everything that 'we want' in a device. The company operates within a sphere of investors first and foremost.

It will be really interesting to see how all of this will unfold in the next 6 months.