Log in

View Full Version : HP iPaq Pocket PC H5450


Jason Dunn
11-14-2002, 01:34 AM
<a href="http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0-2709830-404-20665470.html?tag=ld">http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0-2709830-404-20665470.html?tag=ld</a> <br /><br />Well, well. The cat is finally out of the bag - CNET has posted an article about the 5450. If you've been following this site closely, not much will strike you as being new, but it's nice to see a confirmation. Go check it out.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/20665470_1_overview_300.gif" /> <br /><br />"As you might expect, a fully loaded handheld such as the H5450 isn't going to be superlightweight; this model tips the scales at 7.26 ounces and measures 5.23 inches long (5.43 inches when you include the length of the Wi-Fi antenna). The H5450 boasts the 3900 series' same sharp, 65,000-color, transflective TFT display. Under the hood, you'll find a 400MHz Intel XScale processor, 64MB of built-in memory, and a whopping 48MB of ROM. That ROM is chock-full of software extras, including the iPaq fingerprint reader and the Nevo universal-remote-control application. And yes, the unit contains consumer-grade IR along with Bluetooth."<br /><br />There's an <a href="http://www.pocketpctools.com/images/newipaqs/h5450.jpg">awesome high-resolution picture</a> over at <a href="http://www.pocketpctools.com/">Pocket PC Tools.</a>

Mr. Anonymous
11-14-2002, 01:49 AM
The CNet article also links (http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0-2709830-404-20665487.html?tag=txt) to the new low cost iPaq, the H1910. According to CNet, the H1910 will retail for $300 and the 5450 will be close to $700 (!!!).

cmorris
11-14-2002, 01:53 AM
Also noticed that the H1910 article states that it will come with a "200MHz Intel PXA 250 processor". Is this true? Even the "low-end" Dell is coming with the 300MHz version so this can't be good for HP...

taxlax
11-14-2002, 01:58 AM
Curious why the article did not mention the removable battery or if it has increased battery power. I don't know about the rest of you, but I am going to wait for the GSM/GPRS version. Then we will be talking!

mookie123
11-14-2002, 01:59 AM
I think H1910 is not very convincing. It's $300 with 200Mhz and only 48MB accessible? ...mmm..... nothing special, downright ho-hum, even depressing

It's really light and tiny tho'

iPAQ h1910 = 6.71 cubic (4.46"x 2.75"x 0.50") 4.23 oz. $299 &lt;-----
Palm m500 = 5.58 cubic (4.5"x3.1"x0.4") 4.0 oz.
ViewSonic V35 = 5.76 cubic (4.8"x3.0"x0.4") 4.2 oz. $275
Toshiba e310 = 6.08 cubic (4.9"x3.1"x0.4")5.1 oz. $349
Tungsten = 7.20/8.64 cubic (4.0/4.8"x 3.0"x 0.6")5.6 oz. $470


girlie PDA!.....made for purse and pocket. 8O

Jason Dunn
11-14-2002, 02:29 AM
Come on guys, stay on topic - this is the H5450 thread, not the H1910 thread! :lol: :lol:

heov
11-14-2002, 02:34 AM
Hey, if you look at the higher res pic closely near the RECORD button, doesn't it seem a little different? It seems from the picture it is a tad longer and it recessed a little more than usual... maybe i'm just wishing it was a jog dial instead... Anyway, it looks like they moved the screen back up where the 3600 series was... let's hope the smaller speaker output thing doesn't muffle the sound (assuming they used the same speaker)

OFF TOPIC: how come I have to login every single time even when i set it to remember me? I don't think this has to do with my cache, because I can get into brighthand and other things fine... maybe there is a cookie i have that is causing problems...

mookie123
11-14-2002, 02:38 AM
Come on guys, stay on topic - this is the H5450 thread, not the H1910 thread! :lol: :lol:

hey the h1910 picture is wrong. (okay wrong thread again, but can't we just combined the two? pleaseee....

Wiggin
11-14-2002, 02:52 AM
Come on guys, stay on topic - this is the H5450 thread, not the H1910 thread! :lol: :lol:
But Geeeee.... you posted the 5450 pic with the 1910 story. :turn-l:
I'm so confused Jason.... :silly:

RickP in AZ
11-14-2002, 03:11 AM
Am I the only one who sees the "vibrating" mode icon in the task bar? Just like the PPC Phone Editions? I'm thinkin' a new feature...

(Also notice the "faked" Bluetooth icon in the hi-res pic.)

To think, I only bought my 3975 2 months ago... Sniff...

Janak Parekh
11-14-2002, 03:35 AM
Am I the only one who sees the "vibrating" mode icon in the task bar? Just like the PPC Phone Editions? I'm thinkin' a new feature...

(Also notice the "faked" Bluetooth icon in the hi-res pic.)
You know, I was thinking just both those things. The "Start" is also faked, or seriously mangled.

There's also 3 LED's.. I guess one of them is Wi-Fi?

I dunno, I'm tempted.. but then of course I have investments in sleeves :)

--bdj

Duncan
11-14-2002, 03:39 AM
The 'LEDS' on the left are:

Green/Amber - WiFi
Blue - BT
Light sensor

The right hand one is, of course, charging/battery status!

ThomasC22
11-14-2002, 03:44 AM
&lt;Goan> where to begin? Ok first, how about this:

With the impending arrival of the iPaq H5450 Pocket PC, HP is raising the high-end bar just a little higher; this handheld has nearly every conceivable extra except a built-in camera.. Similar in design to the company's H3900 series models, the H5450 builds on that line's already substantial feature set, adding biometric security, built-in Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth connectivity.

OK, soooooooooom a CF slot is conceivable? Jog Dial? CDMA?

I do understand what HP was trying to do (seamless wireless) and it isn't like I don't appreciate this but as someone who still couldn't buy a bluetooth enabled phone if he wanted to this does me no good whatsoever.

Oh, and the biometric scanner is still pretty stupid.

Duncan
11-14-2002, 03:45 AM
The screen is the same C.H. Lehman screen that has been placed on every Pocket PC for quite some time (who the hell is C.H. Lehman anyway?). All elements not on that original screen picture have been 'painted' on - the vibration, BT, and WiFi icons. The Start icon may be fake - but if it is it has always been fake on this screen pic.

ThomasC22
11-14-2002, 03:53 AM
The screen is the same C.H. Lehman screen that has been placed on every Pocket PC for quite some time (who the hell is C.H. Lehman anyway?). All elements not on that original screen picture have been 'painted' on - the vibration, BT, and WiFi icons. The Start icon may be fake - but if it is it has always been fake on this screen pic.

My question isn't so much "is it fake" as it is "is it made up or do these represent actual features of the device"?

Vibrating alarms might begin to make this device worth it (Although at $700 maybe not)

Duncan
11-14-2002, 03:56 AM
OK, soooooooooom a CF slot is conceivable? Jog Dial? CDMA?

I do understand what HP was trying to do (seamless wireless) and it isn't like I don't appreciate this but as someone who still couldn't buy a bluetooth enabled phone if he wanted to this does me no good whatsoever.

Oh, and the biometric scanner is still pretty stupid.

OK - let's play devil's advocate here...

Jog dial - difficult to do AND keep the sleeve compatability - jog dial would have pleased some but annoyed many more...

Biometric scanner - I could see it being of imeasurable use in my job - where I need a secured device but taking the time to enter a password is something I could do without.

CDMA - well, that is coming! Probably after HP have made all the correct ritual sacrifices to Qualcomm. No use for BT? Well if just one CDMA manufacturer/network had the common sense to include BT (as EVERY GSM vendor has done for a while...)...

CF slot - could be argued that increasingly Pocket PC manufacturers are leaving out the CF slot and that SD peripherals will becaome increasingly available because of this - in the meantime CF can still be supported by the iPAQ IF people want it...

As I said - just playing Devil's advocate...!

Duncan
11-14-2002, 03:59 AM
The same fake icons have appeared in multiple places - which inclines me to believe that HP put them there - which would make them representative of actual icons that will appear... Theory 2 - the screen is the one that was intended to be placed on pictures of the GSM/GPRS/CDMA version of the coming iPAQs...

szamot
11-14-2002, 04:06 AM
Well, I am not going to get into the debate of what is it going to have and what it will not. I just want to know if it will have the same Compaq "quality" as the 38xx had. Judging by the quality of my 3850 I would be very sceptical about purchasing another iPAQ. I had mine fixed 4 times in less than one year and I know I did not have have the issues that some of my buddies did. So, is this going to be a new and improved HP iPAQ or just a Compaq iLEMON, one thing is for sure it will not be cheap.

ThomasC22
11-14-2002, 04:09 AM
Biometric scanner - I could see it being of imeasurable use in my job - where I need a secured device but taking the time to enter a password is something I could do without.


The question is, do you have a biometric scanner on your PC?


As I said - just playing Devil's advocate...!


Yes, I know. I wasn't so much saying that I faulted HP for not including some of these features (a jog dial would be impossible) I just objected to the idea that "every conceivable" feature was included.

Paragon
11-14-2002, 04:13 AM
I'm sorry, please forgive for I'm a bit on the slow side.....Explain this to me again. Why is this thing $700.00???????

Dave

Jeff Rutledge
11-14-2002, 04:18 AM
Am I the only one who sees the "vibrating" mode icon in the task bar? Just like the PPC Phone Editions? I'm thinkin' a new feature...

(Also notice the "faked" Bluetooth icon in the hi-res pic.)
You know, I was thinking just both those things. The "Start" is also faked, or seriously mangled.

There's also 3 LED's.. I guess one of them is Wi-Fi?

I dunno, I'm tempted.. but then of course I have investments in sleeves :)

--bdj

I belive the 5450 series is compatible with the sleeves. It's the 1900 series that's not.

smashcasi
11-14-2002, 04:22 AM
I'm sorry, please forgive for I'm a bit on the slow side.....Explain this to me again. Why is this thing $700.00???????
Well that's an easy one to answer: Because that's what they think people are willing to pay, and they're probably right. High-end enterprise customers and the true gadget freaks are likely to fork out the extra cash for the latest and greatest.

Charge what the market will bear...

Duncan
11-14-2002, 04:24 AM
The question is, do you have a biometric scanner on your PC? Good heavens! It's a long time since I used a full PC at work! Anyway - it's only my Pocket PC that is put in an 'at risk' situation! :)

st63z
11-14-2002, 04:26 AM
I want it so much, but I hate saving up for it so much...

(I wonder if I can use my BlueSpoon BT headsets as wireless mono headphones/mics with the iPaq?)

Duncan
11-14-2002, 04:27 AM
Surely $700 is a pre-Christmas/early adopter/theoretical 'let's see what we can get away with' figure...? post-Christmas, and with increased competition, we'll see the real price!!

ThomasC22
11-14-2002, 04:29 AM
Charge what the market will bear...

Well, I guess we'll just have to see how it goes, but I'll tell you this...Gadget freaks aren't stupid and the Dell can be made to do exactly what this does with a couple CF slots (as can the sucessor to the e740 with less effort). This was, in my opinion, proved by the sales of the 3900 series.

As for enterprise, sure there might be some high security industries that will buy this but for the most part corporations will make due with passwords and save the $500 per unit)

Good heavens! It's a long time since I used a full PC at work! Anyway - it's only my Pocket PC that is put in an 'at risk' situation! :)

Well, and there will be some who need this (government comes to mind) but I still think the majority will still opt for a simple password

Paragon
11-14-2002, 04:37 AM
Sorry guys! I guess I'm a bit slower than I thought. I still don't get it! $700.00 for a thumbprint thingie??

Dave

Paul P
11-14-2002, 04:38 AM
There is always fuss about the price. I think $700 is a great price. Why? When e740 came out, it sold for $600. How long did it take for the price to drop below $500? A month or two? How long did it take 3970 to drop below originally 'suggested' manufacturer's price of $750? I think almost right away (from Amazon I believe). I bought mine from elsewhere for $660. Now we have the 5450 for $700. One hundred dollars alone is a reasonable price for the screen (at least to me). It's not just HP, almost every company charges a higher price right off the bat.

Paragon
11-14-2002, 04:41 AM
One hundred dollars alone is a reasonable price for the screen.


Ummm...Paul two words ViewSonic, and Dell. Well three words, transfl......

Paul P
11-14-2002, 04:43 AM
One hundred dollars alone is a reasonable price for the screen.


Ummm...Paul two words ViewSonic, and Dell. Well three words, transfl......

Haven't seen them yet.

Janak Parekh
11-14-2002, 04:43 AM
I belive the 5450 series is compatible with the sleeves. It's the 1900 series that's not.
That's my point. I have a vested interest in getting this thing because it'll work with my CF+ sleeve and give me terrific battery life.

$700 is a lot, but considering it's the only unit out there with both BT + WiFi it's not too surprising. With a CF+ sleeve like mine, I can get two free slots plus BT plus WiFi. It's a great combo for me.

However, I don't think it'll sell anywhere near the 38xx or 39xx units until the price goes down... I think the Axim will satisfy most medium-power users.

--bdj

Paragon
11-14-2002, 04:52 AM
One hundred dollars alone is a reasonable price for the screen.


Ummm...Paul two words ViewSonic, and Dell. Well three words, transfl......

Haven't seen them yet.

Paul

They both have the same type of transfle......"backlit" screen as the 3900 Ipaq, for less than half the cost.
Dave

mtillett
11-14-2002, 05:32 AM
Before we get all excited about the $700 price I just want to point out that you can pre-order one from E-Cost right now for $646.12 ( http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=761948 ) and this is before the thing is even released. If this thing doesn't go for $599 with some sale, coupon, rebate, etc before Christmas I'll be pretty suprised. And I also don't think that the $599-$650 range is too extreme for an iPAQ with built-in Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, LARGE battery, etc. I'm looking at biometrics as an added bonus!

Paul P
11-14-2002, 05:43 AM
Before we get all excited about the $700 price I just want to point out that you can pre-order one from E-Cost right now for $646.12 ( http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=761948 ) and this is before the thing is even released.

nice find.

apparently, you will be able to get a bigger battery as well...

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=659254/search=h5400/ut=cf29b1229fdaeada

2480 mAh

st63z
11-14-2002, 05:43 AM
All the same, wouldn't we all be a lot more comfortable with $700 if it has 128-256MB RAM? :D

st63z
11-14-2002, 05:57 AM
apparently, you will be able to get a bigger battery as well...

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=659254/search=h5400/ut=cf29b1229fdaeada

2480 mAh

Nice, I don't suppose it's compatible with the 1910? Even with the 5400, won't this bulge out and make it incompatible with the sleeves?

P.S. Just thought of something, can we be assured that current cases like the PDAMotion SS cover pack (SS-2C/LS-2C), Whitney CF Sleeve (Krusell case), HP's own CF Plus pack, various Vaja/E&B/HC cases, etc.. will they all be compatible with the 5450?? I really hope so...

Bob Anderson
11-14-2002, 06:16 AM
I knew there was a reason I didn't buy the 39xx!!!

I have two general comments:

1) Thank God I don't have to give up my "sleeve" investments - I can buy a new device and still use my peripherals! Hallelujah - that alone tells me I must buy this device.

2) People -- again I say -- be careful... some of these lower priced models of Pocket PCs don't have more than 32MB ROM... and yet the high end ones are including 48.... I was so excited when I bought my 3635 iPaq.. but it only had 16MB ROM and when PPC 2002 came out, guess what... not everything could be loaded in ROM! So, if you aren't a power user, or you don't like to stay cutting edge, go get yourself an Axim.... otherwise carefully study the specs and make an informed decision. And don't complain when MSFT releases the new version of PPC OS and you need 38, 40, or 48 MB ROM and you can't upgrade!!

Way to go HP/Compaq.... You've got one of these sold already!

GQ19
11-14-2002, 06:32 AM
ok.. so the GSM version won't have 802.11b (WiFii) support right? and American GSM carriers have limits on the amount of data that can be downloaded from the internet.. well not quite limits but it gets VERY expensive.. so if the GSM version comes with no WiFi i think that sux becuz A) who the hell would wanna reach for their big ipaq as a phone B) getting internet data would be expensive.. other than that the 5450 looks SWEET.. i wanna sell my 3950 as soon as it comes out just for the fact that i dont wanna add sleeves and get rid of the sleek look for what the 5450 comes with out of the box..

ThomasC22
11-14-2002, 06:33 AM
Before we get all excited about the $700 price I just want to point out that you can pre-order one from E-Cost right now for $646.12 ( http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=761948 ) and this is before the thing is even released. If this thing doesn't go for $599 with some sale, coupon, rebate, etc before Christmas I'll be pretty suprised. And I also don't think that the $599-$650 range is too extreme for an iPAQ with built-in Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, LARGE battery, etc. I'm looking at biometrics as an added bonus!

It's a good point, but the fact still remains that this iPaq will be a full $400 more than the high end Dell which can reproduce it's features exactly (not as seamlessly but still)

The problem is simply that HP tends to aim high and although much of it is just indignance, a lot of it is also that HP isn't really moving forward

GQ19
11-14-2002, 06:43 AM
Before we get all excited about the $700 price I just want to point out that you can pre-order one from E-Cost right now for $646.12 ( http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=761948 ) and this is before the thing is even released. If this thing doesn't go for $599 with some sale, coupon, rebate, etc before Christmas I'll be pretty suprised. And I also don't think that the $599-$650 range is too extreme for an iPAQ with built-in Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, LARGE battery, etc. I'm looking at biometrics as an added bonus!

It's a good point, but the fact still remains that this iPaq will be a full $400 more than the high end Dell which can reproduce it's features exactly (not as seamlessly but still)

The problem is simply that HP tends to aim high and although much of it is just indignance, a lot of it is also that HP isn't really moving forward

Ok well true.. almost ANY semi-recent PDA can match it's featues "not as seamlessly" u can throw a sleeve on a 38XX and make it do everything but will it even look like a PDA? no it'll look like a freakin VCR ;-).. so seamless integration is HIGHLY important.. my two cents..

Kati Compton
11-14-2002, 06:50 AM
That ROM is chock-full of software extras, including the iPaq fingerprint reader and the Nevo universal-remote-control application. And yes, the unit contains consumer-grade IR along with Bluetooth.

Last time I played with a consumer-level fingerprint reader it was REALLY touchy. You had to put your finger down *just right* for it to work. It wouldn't verify me most of the time. Although I have to say it wouldn't falsely validate. But sometimes it seemed like it wouldn't validate at all!

toshtoshtosh
11-14-2002, 07:40 AM
Still no news on the size of the regular battery?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........................

yellow1
11-14-2002, 08:22 AM
$700 (or $650) is MUCH better than the ridiculous $1,100 amount that was going around a couple of weeks ago, no?
I was going to get a Dell to replace my 3670 but now this better than expected price has got me thinking..

Ravenswing
11-14-2002, 11:31 AM
I can only hope this isn't the only one in the range. No way am I paying $700 for a lot of features I already have available through cards and sleeves, and the biometric scanner is a joke, right?

Plus, no new operating system. I won't be getting a new iPAQ for Christmas, that's for sure.

Ravenswing
11-14-2002, 11:34 AM
The question is, do you have a biometric scanner on your PC? Good heavens! It's a long time since I used a full PC at work! Anyway - it's only my Pocket PC that is put in an 'at risk' situation! :)

If the data on your PDA is worth keeping secret, a biometric scanner is insufficiently secure to stop someone stealing it. There's a lot of hype about them, but they just aren't good enough.

Pony99CA
11-14-2002, 11:43 AM
Oh, and the biometric scanner is still pretty stupid.

Well, something may be stupid, but I don't think it's the biometric scanner. :lol:

Seriously, I would much rather swipe my finger to activate my Pocket PC than tap my stylus a minimum of eight times (I use the strong password, which requires 7 characters including one uppercase and one lowercase, thus requiring another tap for Shift).

If you're in your car (hopefully stopped :-)) and need to do something on your Pocket PC, typing in that password can be a pain.

Also, when I wake up and want to check my E-mail, hitting those keys is a major challenge. :-)

Steve

Pony99CA
11-14-2002, 12:00 PM
The question is, do you have a biometric scanner on your PC?

He may not have one, but fingerprint scanners have been available for PCs for a while now (as have magnetic card readers, I think). A Google search turned up a few manufacturers.

I think they make more sense for mobile devices that can be lost more easily. In fact, now that I think about it, I'm surprised more laptops haven't added them next to their touchpads.

Steve

Pony99CA
11-14-2002, 12:38 PM
Sorry guys! I guess I'm a bit slower than I thought.

Maybe. Have they lowered the standards for Thinker? :lol: (Wait, I'm a Thinker, too....)


I still don't get it! $700.00 for a thumbprint thingie??

Ummm, it's not just a fingerprint scanner. Let's see what's new compared to the previous top-of-the-line 3970:

* WiFi!
* 48 MB ROM
* Fingerprint scanner (of course)

And all for $50 less than the suggested price of the 3970! (HP still lists the 3975 for $749.99 -- with a free leather case; see the HP Store (http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/product_detail/product_detail_view.jsp?product_code=900576&cat_level=2).)

Yes, excellent lower-priced Pocket PCs are now coming out, but how many have the following (besides the above):

* Bluetooth (although, if it really has Bluetooth, I'm surprised it's not the 5470....)
* Consumer IR and remote control software
* Awesome expandability (probably the biggest peripheral base of any Pocket PC)

While I couldn't justify $750 for a 3970, I think I can easily justly $700 for a 5450. I barely justified $650 for my 3870, and this would be easier (for me). And that eCost link that was posted for under $650 makes it even easier.

Finally, remember that there are supposedly other variations of the 5400 series coming out -- some without the fingerprint scanner and maybe without Bluetooth and/or WiFi. Those would hopefully be priced less (unless C!Net and eCost got confused and listed the base price of the 5400 series but showed the high-end model).

Steve

Pony99CA
11-14-2002, 01:22 PM
Before we get all excited about the $700 price I just want to point out that you can pre-order one from E-Cost right now for $646.12 ( http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=761948 ) and this is before the thing is even released. If this thing doesn't go for $599 with some sale, coupon, rebate, etc before Christmas I'll be pretty suprised. And I also don't think that the $599-$650 range is too extreme for an iPAQ with built-in Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, LARGE battery, etc. I'm looking at biometrics as an added bonus!

It's a good point, but the fact still remains that this iPaq will be a full $400 more than the high end Dell which can reproduce it's features exactly (not as seamlessly but still)

Well, the high-end Dell is $300 (after a $50 rebate). If only Dell sells these, there won't be any other discounts. If the 5450 is $646.12 at eCost, that's not $400 where I'm from.

Let's see what it would take to bring a Dell up to what the 5450 has, OK?

1. WiFi -- add about $100
2. Bluetooth -- add about $100
3. Consumer-level IR -- add about $50 (if we weren't out of slots!)
4. 48 MB ROM -- who knows, but Pocket PC Techs memory expansions aren't cheap (if they'll even offer one for the Dell)
5. Fingerprint scanner -- BWAHAHAHAHA (Yes, I know you think it's stupid; see my previous posts)
6. Support for sleeves -- BWAHAHAHAHA


The problem is simply that HP tends to aim high and although much of it is just indignance, a lot of it is also that HP isn't really moving forward

What?!? HP/Compaq have been the premiere innovators in Pocket PCs. Let's look at what they've done.

iPAQ 3630 (?):
* Strong ARM 206 MHz processor (a first in the industry)
* Side-lit screen that's easily visible outdoors (a first in the industry)
* Flash ROM for upgradability (a first in the industry)
* Expansion sleeves (a first in the industry)

iPAQ 3670:
* 64 MB RAM (a first in the industry)

iPAQ 38xx:
* 64k color screen (a first, I think)
* SD support (a first, I think)
* User-accessible Flash Rom (HP was first with this, I think, in the Jornada 56x)

iPAQ 3870:
* Bluetooth (a first in the industry)

iPAQ 39xx:
* Transflective screen (a first in the industry)
* Consumer-level IR (a first in the industry)
* 48 MB ROM (a first in the industry)
* XSscale processor (yes, I think Toshiba did it first, but it's still moving forward for HP)
* SDIO (yes, I think Toshiba did it first, but it's still moving forward for HP)

iPAQ 5450:
* Built-in WiFi (yes, I think Toshiba did it first, but it's still moving forward for HP)
* Built-in fingerprint scanner

(NOTE: By "first in the industry", I'm referring to the Pocket PC industry. We don't care about Palms, right? :lol:)

Oh, and the 5450 will supposedly list for $50 less than the 3970! When people say HP isn't advancing. it makes me want to :pukeface:.

Yes, their prices are higher than the competition, but many people obviously feel they're worth it. If you don't, fine; don't buy one.

Steve

markl
11-14-2002, 01:33 PM
I don't think that $700 is that bad. Here in the UK, the 3970 is currently around £600, which is around $950.

The 5450 will probably be available in the US before it is in the UK, meaning that you could buy a 5450 in the US for £160 ($250) LESS than the 3970 in the UK. With the discounts and rebates that you are bound to get on the 5450, the difference will be even greater..... :-(

Mark

taxlax
11-14-2002, 01:39 PM
ok.. so the GSM version won't have 802.11b (WiFii) support right? and American GSM carriers have limits on the amount of data that can be downloaded from the internet.. well not quite limits but it gets VERY expensive.. so if the GSM version comes with no WiFi i think that sux becuz A) who the hell would wanna reach for their big ipaq as a phone B) getting internet data would be expensive.. other than that the 5450 looks SWEET.. i wanna sell my 3950 as soon as it comes out just for the fact that i dont wanna add sleeves and get rid of the sleek look for what the 5450 comes with out of the box..

A very interesting point. I have a 3670 and one of the original 3630s and really need to upgrade. Do I wait for the GSM/Gprs version, or do I get this one and continue using Bluetooth with my t68i. I wonder if the price of the GSM version with be substantially more, have more features, have less battery life? Any idea when it will come out/be announced officially?

Underwater Mike
11-14-2002, 02:44 PM
A very interesting point. I have a 3670 and one of the original 3630s and really need to upgrade.

I have a 3635 and am looking for a new unit, too, although the Carepaq has kept my iPAQ "fresh as a country lane after a spring shower." (Um, if you don't remember the commercial that line is from, don't ask! :oops: )

At any rate, I am considering moving to the Dell for the integrated slots. Compatibility with my one zillion sleeves is the only reason for me to stay with an iPAQ. That said, I think that with all the integrated goodies, the eventual street price for the 5450 will be in line with its features. Just depends on whether you want all that stuff stock or add-on.

For me, the WiFi is a non-issue; I have both PC and CF cards that I've already invested in. The Bluetooth is great, if my contract-wielding Stone Age carrier (Sprint) would ever release a BT phone. (Which it won't do, of course, for the same reason that it's withdrawing all its data kits from stores.) Biometrics? Eh... All my really important data is encrypted in eWallet. If a thief can break that, the biometric-secured device access is not going to keep the data safe. Besides, what'll happen when the scanner dies?!?

Looking at declining shipments and continued softness in the economy, I don't think the volume is going to be there at the list price, high-end targeting notwithstanding. (That said, 128MB built in would've made this FLY off the shelves. 8O ) But HP's margin on this is probably comfortable, leaving plenty of room for retailer discounting. Much as my various iPAQ (and Presario) issues have ticked me off, I think this will be a successful device.

Janak Parekh
11-14-2002, 03:25 PM
Let's see what it would take to bring a Dell up to what the 5450 has, OK?

1. WiFi -- add about $100
2. Bluetooth -- add about $100
3. Consumer-level IR -- add about $50 (if we weren't out of slots!)
Steve, great defense of the iPaq. This was my thinking precisely, but I was eating breakfast at 7:22am :)

The other thing to point out is you get both WiFi and Bluetooth without having to use a slot. I have a Socket WiFi card and a Microdrive. I keep the Microdrive in by default. Let me tell you, I can't count the number of times I wanted to smack my head for forgetting to bring the WiFi card with me.

So, with a naked iPaq I can have a 512MB SD, WiFi, and Bluetooth. I can still add on one or two slots via sleeve. And contrary to public perception, the CF sleeves aren't that thick (even thinner if you consider the Silver Sliders or Whitney cases).

Not a bad deal at all.

--bdj

Duncan
11-14-2002, 04:05 PM
I'm just going to put my horns on again to play devil's advocate...

With one of the three dual CF slot sleeves that are available you can have, with the 5400, a Pocket PC that has:

- Consumer IR
- 400 Mhz processor
- 48MB ROM
- 64MB RAM
- Built-in BT
- Built-in WiFi
- 1 x free SDIO slot
- 2 x free CF slots
- Transflective screen
- Replaceable battery

This, arguably, makes the new iPAQ the most advanced Pocket PC by quite a margin. Yes - it is big and heavy (and expensive) - but not everyone thinks small and light is the be all and end all! Many people will find that a setup as above will be ALL they will need - with no need to swap cards to get functions...

One question - those with investements in WiFi and BT cards - why not sell them to prospective Dell owners - and use the cash to help fund the purchase of a 5400...?! :wink:

Janak Parekh
11-14-2002, 04:08 PM
I'm just going to put my horns on again to play devil's advocate...
... and you played it well. Crap, now when I get this device I'll have to start thinking about the dual-CF sleeve... although, I do have to say, a battery-powered CF+ is pretty useful.

Question: what would you put in those two CF slots? A GPS and a 1GB card, perhaps? Wow, you're talking not desktop replacement, but a handheld that's arguably much more powerful than a desktop for certain functions.

One question - those with investements in WiFi and BT cards - why not sell them to prospective Dell owners - and use the cash to help fund the purchase of a 5400...?! :wink:
That's already part of my plan :) Either that, or pawn the kit & kaboodle off (iPaq 3870, CF sleeve, Socket WiFi card) to a family relative.

--bdj

Duncan
11-14-2002, 04:21 PM
BigDaddyJ,

although, I do have to say, a battery-powered CF+ is pretty useful.

Not a choice you need to make!

http://www.seidioonline.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=514

(BTW - if anyone who is confused about my loyalties - I still love my Loox and it is my personal choice for leisure use - but at work I use an iPAQ - pretty much mandatory! - and the 5400 is a definite buy!)

Janak Parekh
11-14-2002, 05:27 PM
Not a choice you need to make!

http://www.seidioonline.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=514
Ah, you bastard ;)

Seriously - the problem with this is that (a) it looks thick, and (b) it doesn't support the plastic iPaq cover. The other dual-CF sleeve (can't remember the name) does, and that's a big plus, and it's thinner too.

My plan, in any case, is to use the 5450 with my CF+. I don't need GPS, so a MD, plus BT and WiFi, is pretty much all I need. I already have a T68, so I have an internet connection that way...

--bdj

Grey
11-14-2002, 05:28 PM
Ok why the 5450 designation? Seems like this should be the 5470, based on past models. Is hp telling us this is the low cost basic model? :D And their will be a 5470 with 64 MB of rom, or 128 MB of memory? Or perhaps high powered bluetooth?

merlin
11-14-2002, 05:29 PM
The 5400 Sounds SWEET but doesn't have the 4-way button like the other models. Not good for gaming.
But then again I don't play much games on my iPAQ anyway.


See you guys at the Pocket PC FanFest. :lol:

Duncan
11-14-2002, 05:35 PM
The 5400 Sounds SWEET but doesn't have the 4-way button like the other models.

Ummm... yes it does...?!

TMAN
11-14-2002, 06:01 PM
I am dialed in for the 5450. $700 is totally reasonable.

I will have a Pocket PC with WiFi, BT, and 1.79 GB of additional RAM with no moving parts or additional cards that protrude from the device.

1.79 GB = 1GB Lexar CF Card, 512 MB Sandisk CF Card, 256 MB Sandisk SD Card with Silver Slider SS5 Daul CF Sleeve.

Sign me up.

Sanjay Srikonda
11-14-2002, 06:21 PM
I'm guessing the answer is no, if that's the case, then we're not only going to get new units but new sleeves as well, are the batteries removable?

Of course, I didnt' read the article on CNET yet, but I'm just asking.

taxlax
11-14-2002, 06:24 PM
Ok why the 5450 designation? Seems like this should be the 5470, based on past models. Is hp telling us this is the low cost basic model? :D And their will be a 5470 with 64 MB of rom, or 128 MB of memory? Or perhaps high powered bluetooth?

Excellent point. Anyone remember the model number of the CDMA and GSM Ipaqs to be released?

blackbarby
11-14-2002, 06:30 PM
Curious why the article did not mention the removable battery or if it has increased battery power. I don't know about the rest of you, but I am going to wait for the GSM/GPRS version. Then we will be talking!

I agree! Does anyone know the proposed release date of the gsm/gprs models and what the specs may be? Will it still keep the wi-fi, bluetooth? I have sprint now since the unlimited data usage deal came out that would be great if I could use that plan with a new IPAQ gsm/gprs. I will keep wishing.

taxlax
11-14-2002, 06:45 PM
Curious why the article did not mention the removable battery or if it has increased battery power. I don't know about the rest of you, but I am going to wait for the GSM/GPRS version. Then we will be talking!

I agree! Does anyone know the proposed release date of the gsm/gprs models and what the specs may be? Will it still keep the wi-fi, bluetooth? I have sprint now since the unlimited data usage deal came out that would be great if I could use that plan with a new IPAQ gsm/gprs. I will keep wishing.

I read that the CDMA/GSM models will have BT but not WiFi. Also, does anyone know if AT&T has a comparable unlimited plan to Sprints? How much is sprints?

blackbarby
11-14-2002, 06:55 PM
At current with any pcs vision enabled plan the unlimited data is free for the first 3months after that a $10 dollar charges is added to your vioce plan for unlimited data. Now, you can buy a data kit for the phone with a usb connection but I heard they are discontinuing them and since there is no BT you can not wirelessly connect. This begs the question will I even be able to use the GSM/GPRS IPAQ with sprint as a carrier. ATT charges for increments of data starting small for their mmode phones but they can easily increase for PDA usage. The world would be perfect if I sprint would stop being so selfish and stuck-up.

Janak Parekh
11-14-2002, 06:57 PM
I'm guessing the answer is no, if that's the case, then we're not only going to get new units but new sleeves as well, are the batteries removable?
Yes, it should be. You might have to remove the sleeve first to get at the battery, of course.

The 1900 is the unit that's not sleeve-compatible.

--bdj

Janak Parekh
11-14-2002, 06:59 PM
At current with any pcs vision enabled plan the unlimited data is free for the first 3months after that a $10 dollar charges is added to your vioce plan for unlimited data. Now, you can buy a data kit for the phone with a usb connection but I heard they are discontinuing them and since there is no BT you can not wirelessly connect. This begs the question will I even be able to use the GSM/GPRS IPAQ with sprint as a carrier. ATT charges for increments of data starting small for their mmode phones but they can easily increase for PDA usage.
You're not ever going to use the GSM/GPRS iPaq with Sprint, because they're 1xRTT CDMA - you'll have to use the 1xRTT iPaq.

I seriously doubt that Sprint will allow the $10 plan for CDMA iPaqs.

For what it's worth, 10MB (T-Mobile sells that for $20) through a compression proxy isn't terrible. I do it with my Bluetooth phone and I've never gone above 5MB. I don't use it at every second of the day, but I have used it 3-4 times a week when I'm on the train or somesuch.

BTW, the 1xRTT/GPRS iPaqs will only have Bluetooth. I don't know, yet, if that'll support headset profiles, but you'd think it would.

--bdj

xbalance
11-14-2002, 07:03 PM
I think it is great for the PPC market, especially the users, if all the units do well. Especially if they all do well enough to keep their respctive manufacturers motivated to develop and market new products.

The iPaq 5450 looks pretty nice, loaded with more bells and whistles than I would know what to do with. It must be particuarly attractive to current owners of an iPaq that have sunk considerable money into the expansion sleeves. It also seems geared towards those individuals that can take advantage of it's built in wireless capabilities.

Personally, I am still leaning towards the Dell. I don't have the investment any longer in Ipaq sleeves (I sold my iPaq and sleeve) and I don't have any way to exploit the wireless capabilities. Given those 2 things, and the fact that I probably will not have access to wireless capabilities in the next 12 months, the 5450 does not make economic sence for me.

My concern for iPaq is that there are too many people like me and not enough people like the technologically advanced people that read this web site to support this high end product. I think they have survived in the past in great deal to the poor competition. I am assuming that ViewSonic and Dell are going to add considerable competition.

Regardless, it should be interesting.

Cheers

psyfactor
11-14-2002, 07:04 PM
Why don't we do a poll to know if the majority of us will buy it or not? :idea:

Jason Dunn
11-14-2002, 07:14 PM
Why don't we do a poll to know if the majority of us will buy it or not? :idea:

Good idea - check the front page in a minute...

TMAN
11-14-2002, 07:39 PM
The Compaq Aero 2130 had the vibrating feature. I wish Compaq had never gotten rid of it. It will be a welcome readdition.

brntcrsp
11-14-2002, 07:44 PM
Since I can't leave comments on the poll I will leave them here:

The primary reason I voted no is because I'm super happy with my Jornada 568, and I don't see the next HP devices being more of an improvement than this device. Once I begin to see greater performance gains with XScale and the Pocket PC, a new operating system, and more ubiquitous GPRS/CDMA coverage in my area then I will probably jump the instant it hits the shelf.

That said I really like the new iPaq, and that's quite the statement for me. I've hated the form factor for years, but this latest iteration is coming closer to something I could live with. I think the $700 price point will stand up, espcially noting all the features.

ryanmjones
11-14-2002, 08:23 PM
I have the 3850 and was planning on adding Wi-Fi and bluetooth to my environment soon anyway . . . but why spend the $300 (?) to upgrade my 3950 when I can upgrade (via Best Buy Performance Service Plan) to the 5400 for like $100? I think the features are great, and hope I can find a way to "trade in" to get the 5400. Anyone know the store Delivery dates?

Kre
11-14-2002, 10:52 PM
Charge what the market will bear...

Well, I guess we'll just have to see how it goes, but I'll tell you this...Gadget freaks aren't stupid and the Dell can be made to do exactly what this does with a couple CF slots (as can the sucessor to the e740 with less effort). This was, in my opinion, proved by the sales of the 3900 series.

As for enterprise, sure there might be some high security industries that will buy this but for the most part corporations will make due with passwords and save the $500 per unit)

Good heavens! It's a long time since I used a full PC at work! Anyway - it's only my Pocket PC that is put in an 'at risk' situation! :)

Well, and there will be some who need this (government comes to mind) but I still think the majority will still opt for a simple password

I think it's better to have a lot of this integrated. I realize the Dell could be expanded to do many things (not all) that this iPaq could do, but not simultaneously (and "simultaneous" being, for me, and I would imagine many others, a key word and really important). Dell isn't making any sleeves for their handheld that I know of, so it won't be possible for it to support as many technologies simultaneously as the iPaq will. With the Dell, you'll shove a memory card into the SD slot, which leaves you with only one CF slot for WiFi, or BT, or something else, but not all at the same time. My understanding is that this 5400 series will support sleeves, and we all know those can be shaved down really thin while still providing a CF slot. And then you still have the biometric reader which can't be found in any other handheld. Nothing is more expandable and can support more technologies at one time than this iPaq.

As far as the biometric reader is concerned, I think it's a great idea - of course, only if it works. But I would much rather have this than passwords. Passwords can be bypassed much easier than biometrics. And I think it's much easier and quicker than having to juggle and remember ten thousand passwords. That would benefit anyone, IMO, not just government. And especially corporate, where sensitive information could and would be found on a device that could be easy to lose.

But for once, I would really like someone to tell me how a fingerprint reader can be easily bypassed, instead of just continuing to spread what seems to be nothing more than an unsubstantiated or inaccurate claim. I'm not pointing any fingers, but so many people make it sound as if it's easy to do, but I think that's nonsense. The last article I read about fooling a reader like that, required not only equipment and time, but a fair amount of knowledge. And I'm willing to bet that 99% of people out there aren't going to have any of those three things, and certainly not all three, which is what you'd need to bypass it in the first place. It's not as though you're just going to whip out a gummy bear and fool a fingerprint reader. It doesn't work like that. Not to mention, you have to swipe your finger with the iPaq reader, not just press your finger onto it. And tell me how anyone will fool hardware that demands that a person swipe their finger.

As far as the price is concerned, I don't think any handheld should have a price over $500. $500 should be the ceiling.

My 2 cents.

ThomasC22
11-14-2002, 11:20 PM
Oh, and the 5450 will supposedly list for $50 less than the 3970! When people say HP isn't advancing. it makes me want to :pukeface:.

Yes, their prices are higher than the competition, but many people obviously feel they're worth it. If you don't, fine; don't buy one.

Steve

Well, I think you've finally gone over the deep end, mostly because you replied 4 times and made essentially the same point.

That being said, you did make some good points. I still don't think it's entirely worth it but if you really want to go all out and have the best PDA around this would certainly be it (for the time being).

ThomasC22
11-14-2002, 11:25 PM
As far as the biometric reader is concerned, I think it's a great idea - of course, only if it works. But I would much rather have this than passwords. Passwords can be bypassed much easier than biometrics. And I think it's much easier and quicker than having to juggle and remember ten thousand passwords. That would benefit anyone, IMO, not just government. And especially corporate, where sensitive information could and would be found on a device that could be easy to lose.


Well, I'm a little up in the air about the Bio-Metric scanner at this point, I still think it's stupid, but less so than before (Pony99CA did make some good points). But I can tell you how, at least cheap biometric scanners, can be fooled.

Essentially, really cheap biometric scanners scan certain points on your print and go through a checklist of those points to make sure each matches up. Sadly, alot of biometric scanners have come out not needing to check all those points at one time, which meant a person with a similar print could rock their thumb back and forth making the points match up one by one even though their print was not the same.

Now, as for what kind of scanner the iPaq has, I don't know. But that was how I was shown and it's worked for me a couple times (although I remain convinced the real problem will actually be people not being able to get to their own data because of a buggy scanner in the long run)

ThomasC22
11-14-2002, 11:26 PM
At current with any pcs vision enabled plan the unlimited data is free for the first 3months after that a $10 dollar charges is added to your vioce plan for unlimited data.

If you read the fine print you'll see thats only for phones, not data devices such as PDAs

dmkozak
11-14-2002, 11:26 PM
Ok why the 5450 designation? Seems like this should be the 5470, based on past models. Is hp telling us this is the low cost basic model? :D And their will be a 5470 with 64 MB of rom, or 128 MB of memory? Or perhaps high powered bluetooth?

Excellent point. Anyone remember the model number of the CDMA and GSM Ipaqs to be released?

Sorry, but this is not an excellent point. It is a wild guess by someone unfamiliar with the 5000 series iPaqs. The FCC filing breaks down the 5000 series into a 5110, 5130, 5450 (the subject of this thread), 5610 and 5650. Not a xx70 in sight.

Oh, and btw, one can guess the xx50 implies biometric scanner.

taxlax
11-14-2002, 11:36 PM
Ok why the 5450 designation? Seems like this should be the 5470, based on past models. Is hp telling us this is the low cost basic model? :D And their will be a 5470 with 64 MB of rom, or 128 MB of memory? Or perhaps high powered bluetooth?

Excellent point. Anyone remember the model number of the CDMA and GSM Ipaqs to be released?

Sorry, but this is not an excellent point. It is a wild guess by someone unfamiliar with the 5000 series iPaqs. The FCC filing breaks down the 5000 series into a 5110, 5130, 5450 (the subject of this thread), 5610 and 5650. Not a xx70 in sight.

Oh, and btw, one can guess the xx50 implies biometric scanner.

So what does the 5650 do that the 54XX doesn't? You would think it would mean something more than just CDMA or GSM/GPRS or else there would be two additional model numbers later than 54XX. Quite possibly it could be a device with more memory or a faster processor.

Merlion
11-15-2002, 12:31 AM
Just this point I'm making ...
I don't know why some of you were saying that iPaq sleeves can be very small, like the Silver Sliders. For small devices like PDAs, the thinnest Silver Slider 3 (0.4"/10.16mm) is plenty thick. If you go to threads on the smaller sub-PPCs, eg iPaq 1910, Toshiba e330, ViewSonic V35, etc., where people preferred an SD-slot to a CF-slot to shave 2 to 3 mm's off the thickness of their thin devices, or compromise usable bty life for a tinier bty to shave 1 or 2 mm's off their devices, or consider the Dell Axim's size (smaller than the naked iPaq but just 0.08" thicker) unacceptable, then adding a sleeve to a device that's already too big for them will be sacrilegious (for those people of course). I'm not implying anything else but just pointing out that size is extremely important for a PDA & adding 0.4" (10.16mm) or more to it is really significant.

:idea: HP did an ingenious thing later by adding a cover to their sleeves. This way, the sleeve acts as an iPaq case as well, so we don't have to add the bulk of a case to the iPaq. :) Adding a case to another model with no screen cover will add significant bulk to the device as well.

At this point, if I have to order a PPC now, the 5450'll be what I get since I don't have to spend more on sleeves I already owned. But I sure wished it has an integrated CF-slot so I won't have to add any sleeve to it.

st63z
11-15-2002, 12:35 AM
I have a 3670 and one of the original 3630s and really need to upgrade. Do I wait for the GSM/Gprs version, or do I get this one and continue using Bluetooth with my t68i.

Me too! Just finished sending both iPAQs in to PPCTechs for repairs/upgrades for almost $300. Was this not the smartest use of my money? :)

I don't like the Socket BT CF card, so can't wait to get the 5450 w/ built-in BT and see if it works with our two S-E T68i's, Nokia 7650, three BlueSpoon headsets, D-Link DBT-120.. (and later MS BT mouse/keyboard, EMTAC BT GPS, etc).

taxlax
11-15-2002, 12:53 AM
I will probably wait until at least the end of February before I make a purchase of a new PDA. I figure the 5450s price will drop after Christmas, plus I am interested in seeing what the 3975 goes to as well, not to mention, I have my eye on one of those tablet pcs

Kre
11-15-2002, 01:06 AM
As far as the biometric reader is concerned, I think it's a great idea - of course, only if it works. But I would much rather have this than passwords. Passwords can be bypassed much easier than biometrics. And I think it's much easier and quicker than having to juggle and remember ten thousand passwords. That would benefit anyone, IMO, not just government. And especially corporate, where sensitive information could and would be found on a device that could be easy to lose.


Well, I'm a little up in the air about the Bio-Metric scanner at this point, I still think it's stupid, but less so than before (Pony99CA did make some good points). But I can tell you how, at least cheap biometric scanners, can be fooled.

Essentially, really cheap biometric scanners scan certain points on your print and go through a checklist of those points to make sure each matches up. Sadly, alot of biometric scanners have come out not needing to check all those points at one time, which meant a person with a similar print could rock their thumb back and forth making the points match up one by one even though their print was not the same.

Now, as for what kind of scanner the iPaq has, I don't know. But that was how I was shown and it's worked for me a couple times (although I remain convinced the real problem will actually be people not being able to get to their own data because of a buggy scanner in the long run)

I too, am aware of how they work, but it amazes me that companies release software that can be so easily fooled like that. Really pathetic. Do you remember the brand names of the readers you fooled? I'd certainly want to stay away from those.

Certainly, HP better have made sure those readers are highly reliable, otherwise, as you imply, they'll quickly become a liability.

As always, time will tell.

Merlion
11-15-2002, 04:34 AM
Well, I'm a little up in the air about the Bio-Metric scanner at this point, I still think it's stupid, but less so than before (Pony99CA did make some good points). But I can tell you how, at least cheap biometric scanners, can be fooled.

Essentially, really cheap biometric scanners scan certain points on your print and go through a checklist of those points to make sure each matches up. Sadly, alot of biometric scanners have come out not needing to check all those points at one time, which meant a person with a similar print could rock their thumb back and forth making the points match up one by one even though their print was not the same.

Now, as for what kind of scanner the iPaq has, I don't know. But that was how I was shown and it's worked for me a couple times (although I remain convinced the real problem will actually be people not being able to get to their own data because of a buggy scanner in the long run)
Rocking the thumb back & forth doesn't work for the 5450's scanner coz unlike most fingerprint scanners, it scans only a line of info so you have to swipe your finger thru the scanner rather than press on it. I've no idea how secure it is though, & I don't know how reliable it is.

For me, I usually just cut off the person's finger to get thru the security, if I have time to indulge a little bit, I'll twist the finger off instead :twisted:. But this 5450's scanner is a thermal scanner so the finger has to have live blood running thru it. It's still not a problem, but takes a little more effort to do it. :evil:

I think for most people, the biometric security of the 5450 wouldn't come into the equation when deciding whether to go for the device. Since the PPC is a highly personal device with tons of personal info, & being the very private person that I am, I'd prefer to password protect my device. But I just can't stand the hassle of having to carefully tap on a keyboard to access my PPC, so I don't use password protection anymore. However, if the 5450's biometric security is both fast & easy to use, I'll definitely use it. So at least it'll be security that'll be used, if it's fast & easy. 8)

st63z
11-15-2002, 06:37 AM
^ That's all interesting, where did ya get all that scanner info?

Heck, even if it's the scanner type that can be fooled by an impression on that goo thingy, it wouldn't bother me, it's not like anyone would try to take an impression of my finger w/o my knowing...

OTOH, what if I'm eating a Butter Fingers with both hands and got all 10 fingers chocolatey brown like I'm prone to do? What then huh?

P.S. OT, but I'd mentioned the EMTAC BT GPS receiver earlier. I just saw Brookstone has some Suunto GPS golf watch that doesn't look too big at all (though the golf accoutrements are useless for me): http://www.brookstone.com/shop/product.asp?product_code=363762

st63z
11-15-2002, 07:44 AM
Oh, I thought of another Q (though my previous ones haven't been answered): do the 5000 and 1900 series use the same sync connector as the 3800/3900 series?

ThomasC22
11-15-2002, 08:15 AM
Actually, now that I think about it, an even easier way to fool a biometric scanner would be to get someone's fingerpring, carve it into a wood block, and then heat the wood to the proper temp.

A lot easier than cutting the persons thumb off at least :wink:

Kati Compton
11-15-2002, 08:31 AM
Actually, now that I think about it, an even easier way to fool a biometric scanner would be to get someone's fingerpring, carve it into a wood block, and then heat the wood to the proper temp.

A lot easier than cutting the persons thumb off at least :wink:

You could cast it in metal, since metal conducts heat better than wood...

Pony99CA
11-15-2002, 08:44 AM
Well, I think you've finally gone over the deep end, mostly because you replied 4 times and made essentially the same point.

Pfft, I went off the deep end long ago. :lol: The funny thing is that I was thinking the same thing about you before I read this post.

If I recall correctly, yesterday (or the day before) you were at about 314 posts, and now you're at 355 posts. That's 41 posts in a day or two, including four of the seven posts in this thread (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4810) -- in a two hour six minute span. (You do know that you can edit posts if you forgot something instead of posting a second post, right? I just edited this one. :-))

Also, my four posts really didn't deal with the same thing. The first two were about the fingerprint scanner -- the first saying why I thought it was a good idea, the second discussing desktop biometrics vs. handheld biometrics. Interestingly, they were both replying to posts you made which said essentially the same thing -- that you thought biometric sensors were stupid. I hope you don't mind if others also get to post multiple times if you can.... :roll:

My third and fourth posts were not really about the fingerprint scanner at all, but about the value of the 5450. The third post was refuting Paragon's claim that the only new thing was the fingerprint scanner, while the fourth dealt with your assertions that the Dell could be upgraded to the 5450 and that HP was not advancing.

Yes, they did contain some information that was the same, but not much, and that was so each post would stand on its own, instead of saying "in my previous post...."

However, as this isn't really relevant to this topic, please direct any further comments about my posting patterns to me via Private Message.


That being said, you did make some good points. I still don't think it's entirely worth it but if you really want to go all out and have the best PDA around this would certainly be it (for the time being).

If you don't think it's worth the money, I can understand that. We all have our different price/performance ideas. I think it's worth $700, you don't, that's cool. I'd rather see it at $400, of course, but if I have the money, I'll buy one as soon as I can (after reading some reviews, of course -- I want to know if that small directional pad supports 8-way movement :-)).

Steve

Pony99CA
11-15-2002, 08:55 AM
Well, I'm a little up in the air about the Bio-Metric scanner at this point, I still think it's stupid, but less so than before (Pony99CA did make some good points).

Well, I'm glad I'm having some effect. :-D


Now, as for what kind of scanner the iPaq has, I don't know. But that was how I was shown and it's worked for me a couple times (although I remain convinced the real problem will actually be people not being able to get to their own data because of a buggy scanner in the long run)

I think that you'll be able to use a password or the scanner, so if the scanner breaks, you can still use your password. If the iPAQ doesn't support that, I agree that would be a bad idea. Of course, if you've backed up your data, a hard reset and a restore should allow you to access your device again.

Steve

Pony99CA
11-15-2002, 09:12 AM
Actually, now that I think about it, an even easier way to fool a biometric scanner would be to get someone's fingerpring, carve it into a wood block, and then heat the wood to the proper temp.

A lot easier than cutting the persons thumb off at least :wink:

You could cast it in metal, since metal conducts heat better than wood...
Come on, didn't "Mission: Impossible" teach you how to do this? :-D

You get a wax impression of the fingerprint, make a latex casting of it, then put the latex prints on your fingers to get the right temperature. If you want to leave fake prints, you put a little salad oil on the latex prints (courtesy of "CSI").

We now return to our regularly scheduled topic....

Steve

Pony99CA
11-18-2002, 10:59 AM
The iPAQ 5450 (and 1910) have been officially announced. See the HP Press Release (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2002/ipaq/).

One bad thing is that the 5450 only has a five-way pad, which implies that it won't do diagonals, according to the 5450 data sheet (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2002/ipaq/h5450datasheet.pdf).

Steve

Janak Parekh
11-18-2002, 04:16 PM
The iPAQ 5450 (and 1910) have been officially announced. See the HP Press Release (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2002/ipaq/).
Dude, did you stay up all night or something waiting for this to be announced? Don't you have work Monday morning? :)

--bdj

Pony99CA
11-19-2002, 09:03 AM
The iPAQ 5450 (and 1910) have been officially announced. See the HP Press Release (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2002/ipaq/).
Dude, did you stay up all night or something waiting for this to be announced? Don't you have work Monday morning? :)

Let's just say that I'm on "sabbatical" after the dot.com crash. :-( Anyone in Silicon Valley need a C++ Windows programmer? Check out my resume (http://www.garlic.com/~shm/resume.html). :lol:

Steve

Janak Parekh
11-19-2002, 06:50 PM
Let's just say that I'm on "sabbatical" after the dot.com crash. :-( Anyone in Silicon Valley need a C++ Windows programmer? Check out my resume (http://www.garlic.com/~shm/resume.html). :lol:
Wow, that's one impressive resume, and I thought mine was decent. How'd you manage to not get a job so far? :lol:

--bdj

Merlion
11-19-2002, 09:59 PM
Let's just say that I'm on "sabbatical" after the dot.com crash. :-( Anyone in Silicon Valley need a C++ Windows programmer? Check out my resume (http://www.garlic.com/~shm/resume.html). :lol:
Wow, that's one impressive resume, and I thought mine was decent. How'd you manage to not get a job so far? :lol:

--bdj
Then I think Steve must've been a real ^*#*&%!&@` in person! ;) A couple mins are all that they can stand with him. 8O

Of course, his alter ego here has just the opposite personality! ;) :lol:

Pony99CA
11-20-2002, 04:19 PM
Let's just say that I'm on "sabbatical" after the dot.com crash. :-( Anyone in Silicon Valley need a C++ Windows programmer? Check out my resume (http://www.garlic.com/~shm/resume.html). :lol:
Wow, that's one impressive resume, and I thought mine was decent. How'd you manage to not get a job so far? :lol:

Good question. :lol: Worse, I've only had one in-person interview. It's probably a combination of the economic downturn in Silicon Valley and my lack of database and/or Java skills (oh, yeah, and my laziness). :-D

Steve

Pony99CA
11-20-2002, 04:23 PM
Then I think Steve must've been a real ^*#*&%!&@` in person! ;) A couple mins are all that they can stand with him. 8O

Of course, his alter ego here has just the opposite personality! ;) :lol:

Nah, I'm much more of an SOB online. In person, I'm just a step-SOB. :-P

Steve

P.S. We'd better drop this thread before Steve C. puts the smackdown on it. :-D PM me if you have any jobs for me in the San Jose area, though. :-)