Pocket Office and the Truth About the 3rd Party Market

[Jason Dunn]

Just in case you didn't know, Palm kicks the Pocket PC's butt when it comes to working with Microsoft Office Documents. :oops: Just how badly? <A HREF="http://www.brighthand.com/article/Office_comparison<br />" target="_blank">This Brighthand article</A> does a good job of showing the differences, and it's something that Microsoft should be embarrassed about (I believe they are). Simply put, if opening Word and Excel documents, making edits, and sending them to someone else is an important part of your daily work, the Pocket PC isn't a good choice. It pains me to say that, but it's the truth (granted, no mobile device supports commenting and change tracking, so as a writer I can't use anything out there).<br /><br />So why doesn't DataViz, the creators of the impressive Documents To Go, make their solution available for the Pocket PC?<!> I believe it's because they fear Microsoft will make their software obsolete if and when Microsoft enhances Pocket Word and Pocket Excel. This is common in the computer industry - when Microsoft enters some markets, they inadvertently kill off the vendors in that market. Sometimes they want to do this (NetScape), but in a smaller market (Pocket PCs) this is the last thing they want to do. Unfortunately, as we wait for Microsoft to come out with a better solution, as consumers we lose. Remember this the next time you wail for Microsoft to release Pocket PowerPoint - odds are it would be as feature-limited as Pocket Word is, and we'd lose the <a href="http://www.cnetx.com/slideshow/">excellent solutions already in the market today.</a><br /><br />A quote from the Brighthand article:<br /><br />"Take the word processing and spreadsheet software that comes with your typical handheld computer, for instance. Most people assume that Pocket Word and Pocket Excel on a Pocket PC handles Microsoft Word and Excel documents better than a third-party application, such as DataViz's Documents To Go, on a Palm Powered handheld. After all, Microsoft makes both products so naturally it should be more consistent, and more compatible. But in a recent hands-on study conducted by Brighthand, we found that a Palm handheld with Documents To Go does a significantly better job of handling Word and Excel documents than does a Pocket PC using Pocket Word and Pocket Excel. Surprised? So were we."<br /><br />This is certainly no secret in the PDA world, and I have to admit I rolled my eyes a little when I read the above paragraph - I seriously doubt the author was surprised by the results. This gives the article a decidedly insincere tone. However, the truth remains that Microsoft needs to greatly enhance Pocket Word and Pocket Excel before the Pocket PC can fulfill its destiny as being the best portable companion to desktop data. <br /><br />Until that happens, we can only sit here and grumble. :wink: Thankfully, <a href="http://softmaker.de/tmp_en.htm">there is a glimmer of hope.</a> Curious how it didn't get mentioned in the Brighthand article as a partial solution at least?

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

This indicative of what has been my main gripe w/ PocketPC. I love the platform and I can't imagine life without my device, but why am I more trusting of 3rd party vendors than I am of Microsoft when it comes to PPC software?

My cynicism tells me that MS does just enough with their Pocket Outlook / Word / Excel functionality (for PPC2k, you can add Pocket Money to that list) to be able to advertise that they have these apps ready out-of-the-box, but not enough functionality to make it even slightly transparent with the desktop versions. I'm not one to say that the PPC should be able to support everything out-of-the-box; there is a tremendous market for quality 3rd-party software such as PI and AF to fill some of the functionality holes, but for goodness sake, providing a Word and Excel solution that can ruin your desktop Word and Excel documents is silly. Overall, I definitely don't expect MS to deliver on everything-under-the-sun (it would be unrealistic to ask that a pocket version of Excel do everything that the desktop version can do), but I wish they'd at least focus on increasing the quality of what they DO deliver (e.g. - alarms that "pop", applications that don't close, lack of decent task-switching, inability to support nested folders in "My Documents", cryptic connection manager, ActiveSync instabilities, etc).

Now I wonder about this TextMaker application. There is a lot of reason to get excited, but will MS just standby if they become wildly successful with software?

[Timothy Rapson]

RE: "Just in case you didn't know, Palm kicks the Pocket PC's butt when it comes to working with Microsoft Office Documents."

Who are you and what did you do with Jason? Really, who is this. Come on. You can tell us. :lol:

If TextMaker does deliver there will be millions of far happier PPC users.

Since I don't use charts and most other business features in Pocket Word, and don't use Excell at all, I did not suffer with these shortcomings on my Ipaq. The graphics editing features are the ones I would want from TextMaker and they are not available on the Palm OS either.

[Pony99CA]

Overall, I definitely don't expect MS to deliver on everything-under-the-sun (it would be unrealistic to ask that a pocket version of Excel do everything that the desktop version can do), but I wish they'd at least focus on increasing the quality of what they DO deliver (e.g. - alarms that "pop", applications that don't close, lack of decent task-switching, inability to support nested folders in "My Documents", cryptic connection manager, ActiveSync instabilities, etc).

I agree with most of these. However, most of the Microsoft applications seem to work with nested folders in My Documents (at least one level of nesting). Pocket Word, Pocket Excel, Notes, Windows Media Player, Reader and Pocket Streets all do.


Now I wonder about this TextMaker application. There is a lot of reason to get excited, but will MS just standby if they become wildly successful with software?

Actually, in this case, I think they might. Unless Microsoft believes they'll get more income from Pocket PCs by enhancing Pocket Word and Pocket Excel, why would they invest R&D money into improving them? Especially after the anti-trust verdict, it's important for Microsoft to show they're not out to kill off competiton, and it's not like TextMaker will threaten Microsoft's business (like Netscape and Java did).

Steve

[Sven Johannsen]

Remember this the next time you wail for Microsoft to release Pocket PowerPoint - odds are it would be as feature-limited as Pocket Word is, and we'd lose the excellent solutions already in the market today. (http://www.cnetx.com/slideshow/)

MS does do Pocket Powerpoint, and Pocket Access too, for that matter. And yes they are as feature limited as our Word and Excel. For those that don't know, they are included on the HPC platform. Why not on the PPC, beats me.

I guess it is a possibility that decent Powerpoint and Access replacements were developed for the PPC because the MS versions weren't available, buit there are a couple of decent Excel replacements, and it was available.

I have heard it said that the MS philosophy on the Office products on the PPC was primarily to provide a way to read e-mail attachments. If that was true than it seems odd to provide a distinct PPC file format. It also seems a bit short sighted on the potential use people would put PPCs to. Not something I'd accuse MS of too often.

I'd be happy if I could just review office documents on the PPC without messing them up when they round-trip. Yes there are 3rd party programs for that, but it should have come with my PPC, or at least been available. (MS Office didn't come with my PC after all, I bought it).

Whatever I guess. Most likely it is a $$ thing. I think Pony99CA had it right. "Unless Microsoft believes they'll get more income from Pocket PCs by enhancing Pocket Word and Pocket Excel, why would they invest R&amp;D money into improving them?" At least as an included item. Maybe they should have called it Pocket WordPad and offered a Pocket Office Suite for sale.

[mookie123]

Somebody should re-do that brighthand test with SpreadCE and Textmaker. See how they both fare. The beta3 textmaker has been improved here and there i heard.

as of pocketPC. Microsoft should built a "plug-in" system for that suits. So third party can extend or add on top of that basic functions.

[Kirkaiya]

... Maybe they should have called it Pocket WordPad and offered a Pocket Office Suite for sale.

My thoughts exactly. Pocket Word is really a stripped version of Wordpad, although even wordpad can do embedded graphics. The strange thing is, when I showed my mom MS Word 2000 a year or so ago, after she had been using Wordpad for a few years as her main word-processor, she didn't want it - it looked to confusing.

She actually likes Wordpad, because for what she does, it's quick and easy.

Maybe Microsoft should by that "TextMaker" app from whoever makes it (or buy the whole company, as is their modus operandus), and make it "Pocket Word 2003" or something!!! :-)

In the meantime.. I guess if I need the features, I'll be plunking down $ for it (maybe when my new PPC finally gets here... sigh... damn Viewsonic).

[uvahoos]

Ok, I admit it: I used to be a major Palm guy. I'm ashamed.

However, I used multiple versions of Documents To Go and other Word/Excel-type applications for Palm back in the day. One of the features I always liked was the ability to specify which documents you wanted to sync, regardless of location.

I have a huge folder structure for documents, and often the files are in many physical locations (PC, server, another PC, etc.) and I could always sync the important files easily. I never had to dump all of the files in one place like "PocketPC My Documents". The best part was that when I updated anything in the Palm it correctly synced the document back on the PC.

Now, if I have something important to sync, I have to make a copy and put it in my Pocket PC MyDocs, and then if I make changes I have to copy that version back to the original place.

I just have never understood why MS dropped the ball when they made the Folders part of ActiveSync. ... :?

[XmanHP548]

Who really knows what they do and why they do it? A Palm conduit for MS Entourage before a Pocket PC one? Draconian licensing schemes? Overpriced software? Crippled verisons of Word and Excel for PocketPC and Pocket Powerpoint is NON-FREAKING existant.

One day, Apple will rise up and solve all of this with an awesome PDA. Then I will be a total Mac guy! 8)

Hey UVAhoos, looks like the PocketPcthoughts community has a few ACCers in it, eh? Wait until basketball season - I am going to be tracking all the ACC teams on my new Maestro PocketPC.

[Wiggin]

It's not that hard to understand why MS has dropped the ball on this one. Merely look at the evolution

> Original Palm Device arrives...world goes crazy, they sell like hotcakes :multi:
> MS recognizes a new market... meetings occur, fists are slammed on tables, coffee is spilt, someone says..."We gotta DO something" :crazyeyes:
> Palm introduces next gen devices...world is still crazy about em, sales increase
> MS recognizes that the world is moving Fast ... meetings occur, project managers are canned for being slow with product dev, fists are slammed, more coffee goes flying, someone says..."I don't CARE...get SOMETHING out there!" (decisions are made to cut corners...like use Notepad logic to handle Word docs, etc.) :twisted:
> MS releases 1st gen pocket PC sw and OEMs like Casio take a chance... world says ho hum, here comes MS :sleeping:
> Palm continues to evolve the Palm...sales are still going up up up
> MS listens to the some of the gripes about rev 1 of Pocket OS, upgrades the piece of junk to do more, but can't take the time to do it right, so merely covers over the flaws with better gloss...

flash forward two years....
> MS says "Look, we own x% of market, whew...we're ok", and prod dev continues as a leisurely pace trying to get it right ...check back in 2004 for PPC 2004 OS !

It's classic MS strategy... never lead, just keep track of competition and offer just enough in response to continue growth of OS sales! :silly:

[Don Tolson]

I've been playing with Beta3 of Textmaker for a couple of days now. It looks pretty good. They've fixed up the interface, improved the speed and feel of the application.

It handles complex (tables, format, etc.) docs pretty well, and integrates well with Activesync (once you tell Activesync to stop trying to convert to PocketWord).

It still chokes a bit on larger docs, but what do you expect? They'll probably get over that as well, soon. I'm definitely going to get a hold of a copy of the final version. I just wish I could substitute it (permanently) for Pocket Word in ROM.

[ThomasC22]

It's classic MS strategy... never lead, just keep track of competition and offer just enough in response to continue growth of OS sales! :silly:

I'm not sure it's that per se, I think it's more a financial thing. You have to remember that, as far as anyone can tell, the PocketPC OS is not a money making venture for Microsoft right now. In all honestly I suspect they're losing money on it but the platform is important to them so they stay in the game.

The problem is, in their over zealous drive to push Palm out they added Word/Excel functionality without realizing that they couldn't sell it later. So now they really don't have much of a revenue stream at all.

In my opinion, PocketOffice should be moved to the office group and they should be given a mandate to put so many resources to it. Then it could be used as a feature to get people to upgrade their Desktop Office, and at the same time provide greater functionality.

Bottom line for me is that Microsoft, if they're serious about this market, has to start focusing on the quality of their PocketApps (PocketMoney, and Pocket Streets and trips aren't great either) because by the sheer fact that they're releasing them their killing off any hope of 3rd party vendors competing

[Skoobouy]

TextMaker rocks! I like so many things about it, especially tables, customizeable control strips, and :!: :!: :!: The "Windows 98" and "Windows 3.1 (3D)" workspace schemes that are so beautiful!

Here are my only complaints:

1.) Left and right keys on external keyboards still cause document
scrolling instead of cursor nudging. I believe that the Stowaway keyboards are incapable (at least on Jornada devices) of distinguishing between the left-and-right D-pad functions vs. left-and-right key functions. A fix for this problem placed in the Preferences menu would be MUCH appreciated. (Users should not require use of their stylus every time they need to move their cursor left or right.) All they need to do is allow the user to define TM’s function when left or right d-pad/external keyboard input is detected.

2.) When opening a previously saved document, an error message always pops up, “German Language Module not installed,” even though ALL of my settings say English, and there is no German in the original document.

3.) They need to put some more options in the New Table dialogue, such as cell width and/or table width.

4.) When the table is set to auto-width, it should dynamically redraw itself when cell content changes. Currently, it is only usable if the entire table contents are complete before the option is selected.

5.)Cell width should be continuous between rows, at least for the default. Currently, tables affected by Auto Cell Width are disjointed.

[Jeff Rutledge]

Nah, Microsoft will do what it always does. Let Softmaker plug away for a year or so more perfecting their product, then buy them. 8)

[ThomasC22]

Nah, Microsoft will do what it always does. Let Softmaker plug away for a year or so more perfecting their product, then buy them. 8)

Sadly, I doubt that will happen. The problem is that the handheld software market is so small that it isn't really worth it for a company to develop a product only to find Microsoft is going to drive them out of business (which happens way more often than them buying out the company).

[Janak Parekh]

Sadly, I doubt that will happen. The problem is that the handheld software market is so small that it isn't really worth it for a company to develop a product only to find Microsoft is going to drive them out of business (which happens way more often than them buying out the company).
I don't think that's going to happen here. It's not like Word for a desktop, which is part of Microsoft's core profit margins. Pocket Word is a drop in the bucket for them - they almost support it like it's a technicality.

By release-time, I think TextMaker will be far ahead of everyone else (and stay far ahead).

--bdj

p.s. Thomas, you've gone on an insane posting spree. I thought I was being prolific, but you've been averaging ~ 30 per day over the last 3 days! Weren't you at 300 yesterday? :crazyeyes:

[HR]

I have always mentioned this as a glaring omission on the part of MS. They have not bothered to put enough resources into it.

A "partial version" does not work. You either sell word and excel that have all the basic stuff most people use, as was tested in the article; or, you make a viewer only. Right now MS markets this as a little word and excel that will let you work on your docs on the PPC. That's deceptive advertising. MS: wake up.

[ThomasC22]

I don't think that's going to happen here. It's not like Word for a desktop, which is part of Microsoft's core profit margins. Pocket Word is a drop in the bucket for them - they almost support it like it's a technicality.


I see what your saying, and hopefully software developers will see your point. But what it comes down to is, if your basing your whole livelyhood on building one app you're going to be REAL careful.

As for Microsoft, That's why I think they should bundle updated versions with office and put PocketWord and PocketExcel in the office group where it can be used as an incentive to sell Desktop upgrades.


p.s. Thomas, you've gone on an insane posting spree. I thought I was being prolific, but you've been averaging ~ 30 per day over the last 3 days! Weren't you at 300 yesterday? :crazyeyes:

Yup, I'm really sick so my girlfriend bringing me soup and you guys are my only contact with the outside world for the last few days :oops:

[Janak Parekh]

As for Microsoft, That's why I think they should bundle updated versions with office and put PocketWord and PocketExcel in the office group where it can be used as an incentive to sell Desktop upgrades.
A la Money or Streets. True, but I think Pocket Word/Excel are just not on Microsoft's radar right now. Unlike IE, I don't think they're obsessed with merging it into the OS, and unlike Money or Streets, Office is so well-established that it's sort of set in stone, as far as I can see. :)

Now, I wonder what will happen with a .NET-enabled Office version... maybe they'll start building a Compact .NET Framework-compliant one? Hmm...

Yup, I'm really sick so my girlfriend bringing me soup and you guys are my only contact with the outside world for the last few days :oops:
Ahh, I was trying to figure out how you could work and post at the same time :lol: Either that, or I thought you were having a massively lousy vacation. Feel better, and go beat EdH in post count! (Only, oh, 1400 to go...)

--bdj

[ThomasC22]

Feel better, and go beat EdH in post count! (Only, oh, 1400 to go...)


Hey, I've got the flu not Cancer :D

[Certified Optimist]

Should really be named Pocket word not Pocket Word, since you are able to keep "words" on you Pocket PC, but it's not really Word the desktop version... :D

[Mark (NL)]

hmmmmmm What was that slogan again? Was it by any chance "Software Matters"?

[SoftMaker]

I've been playing with Beta3 of Textmaker for a couple of days now. It looks pretty good. They've fixed up the interface, improved the speed and feel of the application.

It handles complex (tables, format, etc.) docs pretty well, and integrates well with Activesync (once you tell Activesync to stop trying to convert to PocketWord).

It still chokes a bit on larger docs, but what do you expect? They'll probably get over that as well, soon. I'm definitely going to get a hold of a copy of the final version. I just wish I could substitute it (permanently) for Pocket Word in ROM.
If "choke" means crash as opposed to "getting slow" (which will be improved over time), please send a bug report including sample docs to [email protected]

Martin Kotulla
SoftMaker Software GmbH

[SoftMaker]

TextMaker rocks! I like so many things about it, especially tables, customizeable control strips, and :!: :!: :!: The "Windows 98" and "Windows 3.1 (3D)" workspace schemes that are so beautiful!

Here are my only complaints:

1.) Left and right keys on external keyboards still cause document
scrolling instead of cursor nudging. I believe that the Stowaway keyboards are incapable (at least on Jornada devices) of distinguishing between the left-and-right D-pad functions vs. left-and-right key functions. A fix for this problem placed in the Preferences menu would be MUCH appreciated. (Users should not require use of their stylus every time they need to move their cursor left or right.) All they need to do is allow the user to define TM’s function when left or right d-pad/external keyboard input is detected.

2.) When opening a previously saved document, an error message always pops up, “German Language Module not installed,” even though ALL of my settings say English, and there is no German in the original document.

3.) They need to put some more options in the New Table dialogue, such as cell width and/or table width.

4.) When the table is set to auto-width, it should dynamically redraw itself when cell content changes. Currently, it is only usable if the entire table contents are complete before the option is selected.

5.)Cell width should be continuous between rows, at least for the default. Currently, tables affected by Auto Cell Width are disjointed.

1. Check Extras/Preferences. The option to change wheel/pad handling is there. For external keyboards, turn it OFF. It's sad that these external keyboards don't send distinctive keycodes, and it's also sad that half the keys (OK, exaggerating a bit) on Stowaway keyboards don't send ANY keycodes at all.

2. Check Extras/Preferences/Language to see that your default spell-checking language is not set to German. Further, do a Edit/Select All, then Format/Character to see that the language of the doc is set to either Standard (= pick it up from Extras/Preferences) or English.

3.-5. Tables are being worked on for the next release after TextMaker 2002. Featurewise, they will do most stuff WordXP does.

Martin Kotulla
SoftMaker Software GmbH

[SassKwatch]

I'm not sure it's that per se, I think it's more a financial thing. You have to remember that, as far as anyone can tell, the PocketPC OS is not a money making venture for Microsoft right now. In all honestly I suspect they're losing money on it but the platform is important to them so they stay in the game.I tend to think it's a $$ thing as well. But it's a money thing because there just doesn't seem to be the overall corporate interest in the PPC platform as there is in say, the TabletPC.

If MS had put near the resources into PPC that they've put into the Tablet concept, I shudder to think where the handheld market might be. As others have already stated, thus far they only seem to put just enough into it to keep growth on a par with glacial movement.

Why they take this not much more than half-hearted approach is anyone's guess. But it wouldn't surprise me if there are corporate anti-trust concerns. If they did put serious muscle behind the PPC, there seems little doubt, they could put Palm out of business in pretty short order.....and that might bring with it a whole new round of monopoly charges.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I agree with most of these. However, most of the Microsoft applications seem to work with nested folders in My Documents (at least one level of nesting). Pocket Word, Pocket Excel, Notes, Windows Media Player, Reader and Pocket Streets all do.
Yup, that's exactly what I was referring to. Supporting one level down from My Documents is better than requiring everything be located in My Documents, but this feels like I'm working with Windows 3.1 desktop. I really hate having 15-20 folders (as opposed to a more intelligent hierarchy) to choose from whenever I want to open a file.

Now I wonder about this TextMaker application. There is a lot of reason to get excited, but will MS just standby if they become wildly successful with software?

Actually, in this case, I think they might. Unless Microsoft believes they'll get more income from Pocket PCs by enhancing Pocket Word and Pocket Excel, why would they invest R&D money into improving them? Especially after the anti-trust verdict, it's important for Microsoft to show they're not out to kill off competiton, and it's not like TextMaker will threaten Microsoft's business (like Netscape and Java did).
I certainly hope you're correct. Their clash with Netscape provided a huge baseline for the whole anti-trust case, but with Netscape, we're talking about a company that firmly established its browser as the premiere internet browsing app before MS went to work (note: I'm not looking for flames here... as a former web developer, I've personally always hated Netscape browsers).

My concern is if TextMaker begins showing signs of success, we might soon see an MS "add-on" application to their PPC which provides "enhanced support" for Word / Excel (somewhat analagous to the Windows Plus packages) that might sell for, say, $19.99. In this case, they could easily argue that Word and Excel are MS base apps and all they were doing was improving upon their own software. Now, one reason they wouldn't do this is volume. There aren't nearly as many PPC users as there are PC users, so selling such a solution to a relatively small user base may not make sense to them.

Now someone reading this might say, "Well providing another alternative would be a good thing... more choices for consumers" except that they would have only looked to do this AFTER someone else made money by taking advantage of an MS shortcoming WHICH went unchanged for over 2 years. The overriding message to me would be, "Discourage competition and then provide mediocre solutions that will go unchallenged." I really hope I'm being paranoid.

[Jason Dunn]

If MS had put near the resources into PPC that they've put into the Tablet concept, I shudder to think where the handheld market might be.

And that's a key factor here: the Tablet PC got massive support and money because BillG loves the slate computer concept - he always has. He doesn't seem to even notice the Pocket PC however... :cry:

[ThomasC22]

And that's a key factor here: the Tablet PC got massive support and money because BillG loves the slate computer concept - he always has. He doesn't seem to even notice the Pocket PC however... :cry:

I do find it funny that the TabletPC was supposedly using "state of the art" handwriting recognition software developed in Microsoft's R&D lab but the PocketPC group had to license Transcriber.

But, it doesn't really matter, I mean...how many times do TabletPCs have to fail before companies give up on them?

[Janak Parekh]

I do find it funny that the TabletPC was supposedly using "state of the art" handwriting recognition software developed in Microsoft's R&D lab but the PocketPC group had to license Transcriber.
The two platforms aren't really comparable with respect to handwriting recognition, you know :D The ARM, with no floating point, is not nearly the same beast for such applications as a PIII 1.3GHz.

But, it doesn't really matter, I mean...how many times do TabletPCs have to fail before companies give up on them?
I don't know, this might just be the right time. Microsoft usually takes about three tries to get things right, and this might be the third time. (Although, admiteddly, I don't remember the second... does anyone remember Windows for Pen Computing? Was it Win3.0, 3.1 or 95? Vague, long distance memory calling here...)

--bdj

[ThomasC22]

I don't know, this might just be the right time. Microsoft usually takes about three tries to get things right, and this might be the third time. (Although, admiteddly, I don't remember the second... does anyone remember Windows for Pen Computing? Was it Win3.0, 3.1 or 95? Vague, long distance memory calling here...)

--bdj

Maybe, but the thing is this isn't just Microsoft failing, the whole Computing industry has failed at this several times. Yes, I do remember Windows for Pen Computing and how Pen Computing was going to "change the world"... :roll:

But in my mind, the reason this fails is because computer users have got used to typing, I type a lot faster than I write at this point, so...well, you know the rest.

[SassKwatch]

And that's a key factor here: the Tablet PC got massive support and money because BillG loves the slate computer concept - he always has. He doesn't seem to even notice the Pocket PC however... :cry:
Bingo.

It almost seems that MS is in the 'pda' market only because Palm was beginning to make waves big enough to catch their attention and lead them to believe this was a market in which they needed to have a presence.

I do have to wonder if part of the reason they haven't been more agressive is because of antitrust concerns. Had they put their marketing muscle behind PPC the way they have the Tablet, Palm might be tetering very closely to extinction at this point (there are those who think this may be the case anyway). Had that occurred while the original case was still pending, it might have added significant fuel to opponents' cases.

Tablets are ok, but nothing revolutionary. I suspect there will be something of a splash amongst the 'early adopter' crowd, but demand will tail off considerably after that. At least that's what my not so highly polished crystal ball has been telling me. :)

[ThomasC22]

I do have to wonder if part of the reason they haven't been more agressive is because of antitrust concerns. Had they put their marketing muscle behind PPC the way they have the Tablet, Palm might be tetering very closely to extinction at this point (there are those who think this may be the case anyway). Had that occurred while the original case was still pending, it might have added significant fuel to opponents' cases.


I actually strongly suspect this does come down to upper management at Microsoft not seeing the PDA platform as being all the relevant until just recently. You have to remember that the PDA platform has only been "alive" as it were for a very small period of time and if you're Bill Gates and have been watching things for the past 25 years you could very well still be in the mindset of "this is a dead concept" (e.g. PDAs failed for years and years before Palm rolled along)

Also, I think the "forward thinkers" in R&D don't see PDAs as a viable concept just because they probably see the functionality being built into watches, rings or cell. phones in the future so they don't put much effort into it.

The TabletPC on the other hand seems to have the amazing ability of tricking people again and again into thinking it will suceed and is the "input method of the future" so of course, MS throws money at it.

[Janak Parekh]

It almost seems that MS is in the 'pda' market only because Palm was beginning to make waves big enough to catch their attention and lead them to believe this was a market in which they needed to have a presence.
If that was the case, I think they would have stopped at PSPC's. It was their second-generation attempted Palm killer, wasn't working, and was costing a ton of money. While I think they do use Palm as a source for motivation, I don't think it's the only source.

I do have to wonder if part of the reason they haven't been more agressive is because of antitrust concerns. Had they put their marketing muscle behind PPC the way they have the Tablet, Palm might be tetering very closely to extinction at this point (there are those who think this may be the case anyway).
Believe it or not, people have beaten Microsoft at their own game before Palm, bundling notwithstanding. Despite MS's best efforts, monopolistic or not, with Money, Intuit still won that game. I really don't think it's the monopoly bit; seeing as how their concerns are disappearing...

Or are you implying that MS would have just bought out Palm? ;)

--bdj

[SassKwatch]

Believe it or not, people have beaten Microsoft at their own game before Palm, bundling notwithstanding. Despite MS's best efforts, monopolistic or not, with Money, Intuit still won that game.
One could certainly argue that Intuit 'won' that game. OTOH, it could also be argued that Intuit 'survived' because the planned 'merger' between MS & Intuit 6-7 yr ago was thwarted by antitrust concerns. And as a result MS backed off that 'game'....to some degree.

Of course, Intuit still had to produce good products at a competitive price and market their products/services well to remain in the game....all of which they have done.

I really don't think it's the monopoly bit; seeing as how their concerns are disappearing...
I dont' think their concerns are disappearing....except for the one case. Those concerns will always be out there, justified or not. Of course, given the current administration and coming congressional makeup, those concerns are likely to be minimized for the foreseeable future.

Or are you implying that MS would have just bought out Palm? ;)
No, I hadn't thought of that angle, but I'm sure someone did. Maybe even someone in Redmond. :)

[madmaxmedia]

To me, round-tripping is the most important feature of all.

I mean I can understand if the 2 versions don't match feature for feature (they never will anyway), BUT the way in which PocketPC's sync Word and Excel documents is really sad compared to the Palm apps.

The first time I set up some documents to sync, it ruined a bunch of my Word and Excel files by removing everything it didn't understand. Great. Furtunately I had backups.

For those that want to sync beyond the 'My Documents' folder, get Mightysync, it works FLAWLESSLY and supports syncing files to memory cards too! Believe it or not it's only $5.95-

http://mydocsunlimited.com/html/mightysync.html

Thanks, Steve