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View Full Version : eBooks You Can Borrow and Lend


Ed Hansberry
11-03-2002, 05:00 PM
<a href="http://www.libwise.com/knowbetter/">http://www.libwise.com/knowbetter/</a><br /><br />There is no question about it, the number one usage of my Pocket PC in terms of time is reading, burning a few hours of battery life each day. That can get expensive given the price of some ebooks. <a href="http://knowbetter.com">KnowBetter.com</a> may have a better way for you to get more ebooks. Just like paper books, you borrow them. For the service to work, you must have MobiPocket reader installed and your MobiPocket personal ID registered with KnowBetter. Their site has full instructions on setting this up.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2002/20021103-knowbetter.jpg" /><br /><br />Now go browse the library and find a book. Select "Borrow" and if the ebook is available, meaning no one else has borrowed it, you will be able to download it. The borrow period is typically 7-14 days, after which the ebook "expires" and is now available for someone else to borrow. You can have 2 books check out at any given time. An added benefit is the ebooks are rated by the patrons of the site which helps you determine if it is one you want to check out or not.

yvilla
11-03-2002, 05:23 PM
I was thrilled when I got the email a few weeks ago telling me about the opening of this library. Like Ed, one of the main uses of my PPC is reading (what a joy to know that if I'm going away from home for a week or two, all I need is my PPC instead of a shopping bag full of books)! The cost of new ebooks has been disappointingly expensive though--especially for someone like me used to buying shopping bags full of books at garage sales, library sales, used book stores, or anywhere I could find them.

So of course I immediately joined the library, even though at that point the number of ebooks/stories available was pretty small; I hoped that as the people running the library indicated, if enough others like me were willing to take a chance and join, they would apply the membership fees toward increasing their inventory of ebooks available to loan.

I'm writing to tell you all that my faith in them was not misplaced--the number of ebooks in the library has steadily increased! I am in ebook heaven. :D

The only downside at all is that I have to wait the two weeks before I can borrow again if I've taken out my alotted two ebooks. Maybe in the future, they will offer different levels of membership, so voracious readers like me can borrow more often, or more at a time.

Rirath
11-03-2002, 06:10 PM
Sounds cool, I'm willing to give it a shot. I've been hoping something like this would come along.

sponge
11-03-2002, 06:12 PM
Sounds cool, but why can only 1 person borrow a book at a time? I would think that is one of the benefit of e-books, no need to make copies.

Cortex
11-03-2002, 06:38 PM
it does sound like a great idea, but limiting the number of borrowers for each book seems like it would be a big problem, especially for new titles.

i also just want to take a moment to vent about how some companies use technology as an opportunity to rip off customs:

1. book publishers -- ebook creation and distribution seems like it would be much simpler and cheaper than traditional books. Yet publishers just whine about copy write protection and at the same time, what little they do publish in ebook form, they triple the costs. WHY????

this is especially true for medical texts which are a perfect match more handhelds -- they are to large to carry around except in electronic form -- they need to be searched -- and yet they charge an easy 50 bucks more for it. LAME :!:

this also reminds me of when music CD's came out and record companies decided this was the opportunity to double the cost of music, while production costs per CD was much less (like pennies per disc)... JERKS

2. banks -- now many banks offer online statements -- but they often CHARGE FOR IT??? (my bank charges $7 per month). it lets them fire the people who answer the phones, gives them the option to stop their monthly statement printing and mailings and yet they use it as one more opportunity to rip off customers. GRRRRRR :evil:

ok, sorry for ranting. but in the case of ebooks it is clear that book publishers arent excited about handhelds -- they occassionally test the waters with a morsal here or there and they rip people off in the process.

yvilla
11-03-2002, 06:40 PM
Sounds cool, but why can only 1 person borrow a book at a time? I would think that is one of the benefit of e-books, no need to make copies.


DRM/Copyright issues!

Ed Hansberry
11-03-2002, 07:55 PM
Sounds cool, but why can only 1 person borrow a book at a time? I would think that is one of the benefit of e-books, no need to make copies.

No different than a DVD, VHS tape or a book at the library. The place can own X copies, whatever they buy. Then only that amount can be checked out. If they just let everyone and their grandmother borrow at the same time, it isn't at all like a paper book that can only be used by one person at a time.

Paragon
11-03-2002, 08:48 PM
As to why ebooks are as expensive as they are.... I did an interview with Peter Fry, and Lee Fyock of Palm Digital Media, better known as Peanut Press a while back. I asked them this question. Their response was that they pay the publishers the same price as a bricks and mortar bookstore does. They don't have the cost of running a store, but they do have to run multiple servers, format all the books, sell them, collect money, pay the utility bills, staff, lawyers, accountants....and so on.

If you now compare the sales of Peanut Press to the average single book store, the single book store probably sales many more books in a year then Peanut Press does. So, economies of scale really come into play. The number of profit dollars from someone like Peanut Press are still very small.

I do agree though, that ebooks really do need to have some price adjustment if they are going to really be accepted by many more people. I realize there is an argument to be made for narrower profit margins, hence higher gross sales, and perhaps higher net profit.

They also made the point of telling everyone to let the publishers know that we want more ebooks. It starts with the publishers embracing ebooks and making them available.

As for Digital Rights Management Peanut Press has never had a problem with a publisher that is willing to sell ebooks not embracing their method of authentication. Anyone who has used it knows that it is HUGELY BETTER than Microsoft Reader. So, DRM doesn't seem to cause quite the paranoia with some book publishers as it does with other media. Although it does exist. Many publishers simply won't sell ebooks because of the fear of piracy.

A book library such as this one that Ed has pointed us to looks like a great concept. Lets hope it takes off.

Dave

sponge
11-03-2002, 09:06 PM
That should be one of the advantages of going digital, not being restricted to one copy, and that's a disadvantage of dead-tree libraries, only one person can take out a book at a time. It's not like the file isn't moved from their computer to yours, and you have to send it back after 14 or so days.

Ed Hansberry
11-03-2002, 09:45 PM
That should be one of the advantages of going digital, not being restricted to one copy.

Read the copyright notices in any copyrighted ebook. It is for one user to view one at a time. Period. The advantage isn't that they are easily replicated which can violate the copyright and the one-at-a-time-usage-per-copy concept. The advantage of ebooks is they are ultimately portable and never "out of publication."

Letting 2 million people borrow one copy simultaneously even though they only get to keep it two weeks violates so many laws it isn't funny.

yvilla
11-04-2002, 12:42 AM
As for sponge and Cortex's concern about the "one borrower at a time" paradigm--it's not that much of a problem. I believe the library, just like any bricks and mortar library, has purchased more than one copy of some ebooks, those thought likely to be popular. Also, I've already tried the waiting list system, and it works fine: If you want an ebook that is out, when you click on borrow now you'll get added to the waiting list for that book (and you can even see whether you are first or just where on the list you are). Then you get an email notifying you when the ebook is available, complete with a link to go get it.

Cortex
11-04-2002, 02:06 AM
Their response was that they pay the publishers the same price as a bricks and mortar bookstore does.

Dave

And thats the crux of the issue, the very reason ebooks will fizzle...

Publishers are the ones who can take the electronic document they receive from the editor/author and plug it into the ebook format for very little expense and yet charge the same for printed form. They want ebooks to die to protect their market.

yvilla
11-04-2002, 02:24 AM
Cortex wrote:

And thats the crux of the issue, the very reason ebooks will fizzle...


I agree that the publishers are the problem. However, I don't think ebooks will fizzle. It may take a looong time--but I think its inevitable that we will move toward ebooks being ubiquitous.

Rob Alexander
11-04-2002, 04:28 AM
As to why ebooks are as expensive as they are.... I did an interview with Peter Fry, and Lee Fyock of Palm Digital Media, better known as Peanut Press a while back. I asked them this question. Their response was that they pay the publishers the same price as a bricks and mortar bookstore does. They don't have the cost of running a store, but they do have to run multiple servers, format all the books, sell them, collect money, pay the utility bills, staff, lawyers, accountants....and so on.

And there you have the problem and the culprits. It's not Peanut Press that anyone is complaining about, it's the publishers. When a b&m bookstore buys a book from the publisher, the publisher must do everything needed for an ebook, plus... print and bind the books, ship them from the printer to the warehouse, warehouse them, employ a sales rep to travel around selling them, ship them to the store, and finally acount for unsold stock (store tears covers off and returns them for credit... more shipping and handling). So the publisher is charging the same price for the ebook as for the paper book, but they're saving all that money. In the meantime, the ebook seller must bear the costs of formatting the books and maintaining the site. Ebooks cost more than paper books because you're paying the cost of a paper book that you're not getting plus the cost of electronic formatting and handling. As a result, people buy paper instead and then publishers tell the press that people obviously aren't ready for ebooks yet because no one buys them. What's wrong with this picture?

BTW, this borrowing library idea sounds great. Note that the introductory discount ends on the 4th, so it's worth looking at now rather than later.

Certified Optimist
11-22-2002, 07:15 AM
Have you tried your local public library...?

At least in Sweden most public libraries carry a range of e-books, and...
# they're free to borrow
# no limit on number of copies available
# you can borrow as many as you like
# the time limit is around 21 days
# there is no joining fee... (provided you hava membership)

And... if you happen to live abroad it's GREAT! 8)

Not saying you should learn Swedish... 8O ...just try to contact your local library and hassle them for e-books.

For books in English I, of course, turn to Peanutpress. Read more books in English than Swedish since I am heavily into SF & F.