Unlimited 1xRTT from Sprint [Archive]

Jason Dunn

11-01-2002, 09:49 AM

<a href="http://infosync.no/news/2002/n/2521.html">http://infosync.no/news/2002/n/2521.html</a> GPRS may have the momentum right now, but 1xRTT provider Sprint is fighting back with an incredibly competative pricing plan. Check out this article at infoSync for the full scoop. "Since the introduction of packet-based networks based on GPRS and CDMA2000 1xRTT technologies, uptake among subscribers has been slow - and many point towards the lack of pricing structures similar to those applying to fixed line Internet connections as one of the primary reasons. As one of the first carriers in the world, Sprint PCS is now introducing unlimited data use for its PCS Vision as part of a new, nationwide price restructuring in the U.S. - and it won't cost more than $10 USD per month. Sprint's new pricing structure aims to simplify matters for consumers and business customers alike, and has been in effect since Oct. 18, 2002. Mainly aimed at making it easier and more attractive for customers to start using the carrier's CDMA2000 1xRTT-based PCS Vision wireless data services, PCS Free & Clear Plans for voice and data will be offered for a limited time to both consumers and business customers at price points initially ranging from $30 USD to $150 USD and will require a one year PCS Advantage Agreement." UPDATE: It seems as though this plan only works with cell phones, not PDAs.

spaceman

11-01-2002, 10:42 AM

You need to fix spelling, "Spring". Should be Sprint. Also unlimited plan is for phone devices only. PDA and laptop data accounts start at $40/20MB to $100 for unlimited.

mscdex

11-01-2002, 01:09 PM

I went to the link in the article (the pcsvision website), and I see nothing for $10/mo... ? Or did I interpret the article wrong?

Cipr0

11-01-2002, 01:14 PM

Shocking.......

Not the pricing plan...

But the fact that news item about CDMA made the front page....

Some amazing devices that people are using today in many parts of the world.

http://www.3gtoday.com/devices/DevicesByDate.html

GPRS has momentum?? Uh.....No...Maybe becuase you live in a area where the service is not avaliable. Such is the case in Europe where the GSM cartel made using cdma against the law....just to protect thier margins....

And UMTS(WCDMA) ask DoComo just how hard it is to make handoffs work. They have been trying for a year...still less than 200k subs.

Cipro....

Brining Balance to the Force...

fgarcia10

11-01-2002, 01:28 PM

Almost two months ago I upgraded my account to PCS Vision, my company bought me a the Toshiba 2032sp, well right after the first month of PCS Vision service Sprint changed it to Unlimited Data, There was no request on my part they just did it. The price plan before the upgrade was $50.00 for 500 minutes, now is $54.99 for 4500 and unlimited data.

st63z

11-01-2002, 01:58 PM

Sprint's announcement made the news round recently. When I'd checked into it, I could've sworn the $10/mo PCS Vision add-on isn't cell phone restricted (i.e. you can also use CF/PC Card CDMA 1x in a PDA/laptop)??

In fact it seems most carriers are moving away from the cell phone limited plans, I remember VStream (T-M) had their lowest data bucket plan restricted in that fashion but no longer...

P.S. My gawd, ATTWS needs to drop their mMode pricing, like NOW! I'm tired of paying $12-18/mo for a couple of measly MB's. They're the most expensive in the US I believe, more so than T-M...

njb42

11-01-2002, 02:36 PM

When I'd checked into it, I could've sworn the $10/mo PCS Vision add-on isn't cell phone restricted (i.e. you can also use CF/PC Card CDMA 1x in a PDA/laptop)??

The $10/month umlimited PCS Vision is an option you can add to PCS Vision or Free & Clear voice plans. If you have a Yiso or Aircard that has voice capability, you should be able to add it on, although I have received reports to the contrary from SPCS account managers.

Owners of the Novatel Merlin card, which is data-only, are SOL. They'll have to use the PDA/Laptop data-only plans at the prices Spaceman indicated -- although there is a promotion right now. The $99/month unlimited data plan is 1/2 price for the first 3 months.

njb42

11-01-2002, 02:38 PM

I went to the link in the article (the pcsvision website), and I see nothing for $10/mo... ? Or did I interpret the article wrong?

It may not be advertised yet, but if you log in to Manage My Account or call Customer Care, you should be able to add it to your plan.

Duncan

11-01-2002, 03:20 PM

Cipr0,

GSM cartel??? C'mon - the reason that GSM/GPRS dominates in the world (not just Europe) is because it gives the advantage of universality - the unregulated mess that produces incompatible networks in the USA is precisely the reason why Europe gets the cool mobile phone tech before the US (in a reversal of the usual tech trend)! CDMA networks are perfectly legal in Europe - just no-one is going to be silly enough to create one!

Any international company based in the US would be nuts not to invest in GSM/GPRS handsets/Pocket PCs for that reason. That isn't to say that GPRS is better technically than CDMA - I'm given to understand it isn't - but that (as the VHS/Betamax war proved) isn't the point...

Perry Reed

11-01-2002, 04:18 PM

Our Sprint Vision plan seems to have been changed to unlimited data for us. We've got two phones with shared 2000 mins/month with what was 2MB each/month. But it's now unlimited according to my plan details on their website. Very cool...

dbrahms

11-01-2002, 05:11 PM

Perry Reed

11-01-2002, 05:14 PM

greenmozart

11-01-2002, 05:36 PM

I think this is the right place:

http://www.pcsvision.com/showcase/details.html

Seems to be fairly strightforward. Look in the pricing plans where it lists the plan options - PCS Vision is Unlimited for every plan. Now all I need to do is find a YISO card!!!! Where the heck are they?

mscdex

11-01-2002, 05:36 PM

Ok. Now i'm confused. :?
Is this $10/month deal only available as an ADD-ON to an existing plan ONLY?
Or can you sign up for this service just by itself?
Also, someone mentioned that in order to see the $10/month plan you have to go into some sort of a My Account page. The thing is, I do not have an account with them yet. I would if I could JUST have the $10/month plan.

Wes Salmon

11-01-2002, 06:18 PM

I spoke to a Sprint rep this weekend and asked how they differentiated between a "phone" and a "PDA" to tell which could get unlimited data for $10. He pointed to the Treo 300 and said "that's a PDA so it's not eligible for the unlimited data plan for $10". My response was "but you guys just issued a press release about this very device saying it WAS available for the $10 unlimited data option". His eyes crossed, face went flush, and a bit of smoke came from his ears.

I left knowing no more than when I came. :(

It'll be interesting where they draw the line between a phone and PDA. If they are consistently lenient with the definition, it could be a huge win for Sprint, if they try to milk PPC customers because they spend more (ala the now defunct OmniSky method), it could end very badly for them.

I left Sprint for Cingular when I moved to Seattle ... if I can get unlimited 1xRTT data on my phone (read *my* phone, not a phone they make me buy) for $10 a month, I'll switch in a heart beat! Problem is, I'm pretty darn sure I'll need to buy one of their phones which is a deal breaker for me at this point.

Cipr0

11-01-2002, 06:40 PM

Duncan,

Europe is no longer the worlds leader in wireless. Peroid.

GPRS is underperforming. Limited handsets.

I dare you to review the cool mobile phone tech on the url I provided above. Those are being sold TODAY, and not in Europe.

Where is Nokia? Still making pretty color faceplates?

The Asians are coming.....The Asians are coming.....

Cip

dbrahms

11-01-2002, 06:44 PM

the number at sprint to discuss this is 1-866-581-9266. They are offering the merlin card for $250 (or $199 if purchased on their web site)
***NOTE: THE $10 UNLIMITED DATA IS FOR CONNECTIVITY THRU A PCS VISION PHONE ONLY. IF YOU WANT THE DATA WITH THE PC CARD, IT'S $100/MONTH.***

Janak Parekh

11-01-2002, 07:06 PM

CDMA networks are perfectly legal in Europe - just no-one is going to be silly enough to create one!
Are you sure? At one point, IS-95 CDMA was illegal in Europe, i.e., the governments mandated that the GSM association standards were the only one allowed. Of course, the sources I read could be wrong, but I did read this in numerous places several years ago.

Of course, UMTS/WCDMA won't be illegal... but rumor has it certain carriers have been asking their respective governments to allow them to experiment with cdma2000 as well.

Long-term, GPRS is dead - BetaMax comments don't have an analogue here. GPRS efficiency just won't cut it for high-speed 3G (e.g. higher than 384kbps). That's why the GSM association is moving to UMTS in the first place :)

--bdj

PPCRules

11-01-2002, 08:02 PM

A lot of debate here about what the plan really is, but a comment on the concept...

These guys (all the carriers) have spent a bunch of money on infrastructure. I do not believe this is a case of 'build it and they will come'. They (all the carriers) are going to have to motivate subscribers with attractive pricing plan, or these new systems will just sit there nearly unused. And I think this is just the price plan to work: low fixed rate, no surprises that make you think twice about picking up the phone to access the network.

That said, I, for one, am not going to become a Sprint customer, so I am waiting for the other guys to follow suit. But to cause that to happen, I wish Sprint well.

dreampages

11-01-2002, 08:03 PM

All the CF/PCMCIA cards (Aircard 550, Merlin C201, and Yiso) require the Vision Data for Laptop plans. You cannot purchase a phone plan for them. You CAN purchase phone plans for the Treo 300 & Toshiba 2030. We sell voice plans (w/the $10 unlimited Vision) all the time on the PDAs.

We have the Aircard 550 in stock now but Sprint will not allow a phoneplan on them. You have to get one of the data plans for laptops which have fixed or unlimited data buckets. Then you pay $0.20 a minute to talk on it. So far they haven't released any laptop plans that include Voice in the bucket. Hopefully they will soon.

Larry

Duncan

11-01-2002, 08:05 PM

Cipr0,

I don't use Nokia phones but I can tell you that varaitions of many of the phones on that URL you gave ARE available or due to be. Nokia and Ericsson happen to dominate in Europe because they produce damn good phones. Motorola and Samsung are making comebacks but only because they are finally making phones that haven't been brushed with the ugly stick...

You do realise that most of the phones on your URL don't actually connect via real 3G? The US CDMA networks have been going over to a kind of 2.75G type network - in Europe we are jumping from 2G/2.5G (GSM/GPRS) to UMTS 3G networks. I'm afraid the market performance makes it clear that GSM/GPRS is the leader worldwide and Europe is the leader in wireless with Asia theoretically overtaking - though the reality is that the Asian leap to 3G was largely rushed and is causing networks problems.

What do you mean by limited handsets? Large colour screens, Bluetooth, GPRS 28/42Kb access, photo messaging, SMS/MMS, WAP, long battery life, built in e-mail etc. - what else do you want?

BigDaddyJ,

Yes - you are right of course - GSM was made the standard but I hadn't realised that CDMA was illegal. Of course UMTS is (in theory) coming. Where the US may overtake Europe is if 3G doesn't pan out - public desire for 3G is lacking and costs are high.

I don't believe the CDMA2000 rumours - too much has been invested by carriers in UMTS/GSM/GPRS to make such a change viable - plus most carriers are pan-European now...

I think my Betamax comments stand as a comparison of current systems - GPRS dominates now and UMTS will dominate in the future - where does that leave the CDMA/CDMA2000 networks - superior or not?

jweitzman

11-01-2002, 08:07 PM

People, go to www.sprintpcs.com and click on the big "PCS Vision" link. That takes you to www.pcsvision.com, and on that page is a big "Unlimited Plans" link.

When's that YISO card coming out!?!

dreampages

11-01-2002, 08:26 PM

:roll: You DON'T want the Yiso. Check out the following threads:

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=ce5b693764f66d8b6f53e0d0b59640a1&threadid=63382

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61310

mscdex

11-01-2002, 08:50 PM

I do not see anything about a $10/month plan on the dreampages site anywhere. Or on the pcsvision website.

Am I missing something here?

dbrahms

11-01-2002, 08:52 PM

I do not see anything about a $10/month plan on the dreampages site anywhere. Or on the pcsvision website.

Am I missing something here?

thats because deampage is sellign the card only....the $10 monthly thing is for connections thru a pcs vision phone only....yes, sprint wants to sell everyone more phones

TinMan

11-01-2002, 09:51 PM

if anyone can find the part of Sprint's web site that mentions this, I'd be very surprised. I called Sprint about it and after 5 1-800 numbers and 6 Sprint PCS morons later....they still have no idea about this. I've been thru their data-service group, business relations dept, general dept's etc....THEY ALL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT "HIGH-SPEED WIRELESS NETWORK" MEANS!

SprintPCS has the worst corporate website I've ever seen. By far. I signed up for Vision three months ago and only this week was I able to access the Vision features via their website. And Voice Command is still broken.

Even when it's working, which is rare, it's still next to impossible to find anything.

Worst. Website. Ever.
Hmmm... I also was just able to access Vision features on the Web site recently (last Friday--the penalty for being an early-adopter). I actually got a letter from SPCS letting me know the day it would be possible. Naturally voice dialing doesn't work (ditto for pictures), but at least I should be able to get Bus-connection to finally work right.

However, I'm very pleased that unlimited Vision has been added to my, already generous, retention plan!

-Mike

Perry Reed

11-01-2002, 10:07 PM

Hmmm... I also was just able to access Vision features on the Web site recently (last Friday--the penalty for being an early-adopter). I actually got a letter from SPCS letting me know the day it would be possible. Naturally voice dialing doesn't work (ditto for pictures), but at least I should be able to get Bus-connection to finally work right.

However, I'm very pleased that unlimited Vision has been added to my, already generous, retention plan!

-Mike

I just today got Business Connection running. Not bad, actually. It works nicely on both my phone and my Jornada. Unfortunately, it's strictly web-based. No way to sync it with the PIM apps in the phone or PPC.

My Voice Command is still screwed up, though.

mscdex

11-01-2002, 10:43 PM

so how much is the cheapest phone that I could buy to use with the $10/month service? And what else is included in the service? (What exactly is "unlimited" and what isn't?)

Kre

11-01-2002, 11:51 PM

Sprint may have unlimited data and decent plans, but their digital network coverage stinks nationwide. And I'll tell you where they stiff you - off-network roaming and off-network long distance, which most of their competitors never charge for. Here's a little tidbit from Sprint's website...

"When you are in any PCS Service Area, you are on the Sprint Nationwide PCS Network. While on the network, there is no roaming--you can make and receive calls using your PCS Phone. Calls made while off the Sprint Nationwide PCS Network will incur roaming charges of $.50 per minute. Additional charges of $.25 per minute will apply when making long-distance calls while roaming."

So you could be paying between 50 and 75 cents a minute when you're roaming and not on Sprint's PCS network, which will be the case for most customers much of the time based on Sprint's coverage maps. That's where good ol' Sprint makes all it's money. And apart from no Bluetooth phones, all of these roaming charges are why I'd never be a Sprint customer. Total deal breaker.

And $100 for unlimited data on a laptop? I saw that on their site. Is Sprint serious? No one's going to pay that. Just the few who like being ripped off.

This is what I'd like to see:
-Excellent Nationwide coverage
-No roaming charges no matter what
-No long distance charges no matter what
-Unlimited voice
-Unlimited data
-Bluetooth and SD slot equipped Microsoft 2003 Smartphone flip-phone
-Flat fee of no more than $100/mo. (Preferably $75/mo.)
-$10/mo. additional flat fee every month to have unlimited voice/data for each wireless PC or CF card for laptop and Pocket PC.

So for $120/mo., you'd have unlimited nationwide voice and data for laptop, Pocket PC, and cell phone, with no roaming or long distance under any circumstances. $120/mo. is not super cheap, but for all of that, it would be a deal.

Of course, whether any wireless provider actually figures this out is a-whole-nother story. Wireless providers will ever see the kind of success they're looking for unless they adopt an unlimited voice and data, no surpise roaming/long-distance fee, excellent nationwide coverage, device flexible, reasonable monthly flat-fee mindset.

mscdex

11-01-2002, 11:57 PM

hmmm... darn. I thought this would be a chance for someone poor like me to get wireless internet for a really cheap price. (I do not have a cell phone either).

jweitzman

11-01-2002, 11:58 PM

I think the last post pretty much answers the one above it as to why the pricing is the way it is.

JW

mookie123

11-02-2002, 01:51 AM

oh well, there ain't free lunch after all...

Janak Parekh

11-02-2002, 02:59 AM

Sprint may have unlimited data and decent plans, but their digital network coverage stinks nationwide. And I'll tell you where they stiff you - off-network roaming and off-network long distance, which most of their competitors never charge for. Here's a little tidbit from Sprint's website...
This is untrue on several counts.

- Sprint's digital coverage is pretty good if you're an urbanite or a surburbanite. It is not great for the hills, but it's certainly better than, say, AT&T who has a lot of analog coverage. In the greater NY area we never fall out of digital anymore on Sprint.

- Verizon's America's Choice Plan is also a network-plan; i.e., if you roam outside of Verizon's territory (which admittedly includes some analog, but not AT&T's analog network), you pay a hefty fee as well. Verizon does have a National SingleRate plan but that's a lot more money per minute.

- T-Mobile/Cingular GSM is even "worse" - their phones don't do analog. This is not a concern to me though, as I currently have T-Mobile. So not only is it a network plan, but it's a "network and no roaming" plan. (Minor footnote - while Cingular has AT&T GSM roaming, T-Mobile does not have a roaming agreement with AT&T at all.)

- If you have AT&T GSM, most of the interesting phones have no analog either. They have one multinetwork GSM phone. Their GSM plans are expensive anyway. Their TDMA plans, while aggressive, don't offer data.

- $100 unlimited is not terrible, considering that just a few years ago there was a service that offered ~ 128kbps for $80/mo. (can't remember the name right now), and had terrible non-urban coverage (not even suburbs). It was quite popular amongst the mobile professional, and I had a couple friends who signed up for it. They couldn't recoup the network costs fast enough, though, and so they went into bankruptcy. Sprint has also spent a ton of money rolling out the 1xRTT network, and it'll take some time before the price goes down. It's primarily business right now. If no one pays for it, you'll definitely see it go down.

In summary - the market has changed quite a bit from the days when Sprint was the only roaming company... it's too expensive to offer exactly what you want right now. It'll take a few years.

--bdj

Janak Parekh

11-02-2002, 03:04 AM

Yes - you are right of course - GSM was made the standard but I hadn't realised that CDMA was illegal. Of course UMTS is (in theory) coming. Where the US may overtake Europe is if 3G doesn't pan out - public desire for 3G is lacking and costs are high.
Indeed, right now the integration costs of IS-95 CDMA -> 1xRTT CDMA -> 1xEV-DO CDMA is much lower than GSM/GPRS -> EDGE -> UMTS as it's a much cleaner transition (i.e., towers and phones work backwards and forwards). This is the key point CDMA proponents make. I don't think Europe is out of the race at all, but they do have to make huge cash outlays, and that's not going to happen so quickly in this market.

I don't believe the CDMA2000 rumours - too much has been invested by carriers in UMTS/GSM/GPRS to make such a change viable - plus most carriers are pan-European now...
That's precisely why I called it a rumor at best. ;)

I think my Betamax comments stand as a comparison of current systems - GPRS dominates now and UMTS will dominate in the future - where does that leave the CDMA/CDMA2000 networks - superior or not?
Apart from the fact that no stinking 1xRTT CDMA phone has bluetooth, my friends with 1xRTT tech here in NY perform about 30-60% faster than my GPRS connection. Sprint also has the coolest phones in the US. So I still don't think the comparison works (at least, definitely not in the US). We can disagree on this one and wait it out though... :)

--bdj

st63z

11-02-2002, 03:24 AM

Indeed, right now the integration costs of IS-95 CDMA -> 1xRTT CDMA -> 1xEV-DO CDMA is much lower than GSM/GPRS -> EDGE -> UMTS as it's a much cleaner transition (i.e., towers and phones work backwards and forwards). This is the key point CDMA proponents make. I don't think Europe is out of the race at all, but they do have to make huge cash outlays, and that's not going to happen so quickly in this market.

--bdj

That's basically my understanding as well...

But I'm stuck w/ ATTWS for good, at least 'till the FCC enacts that portable number requirement. Don't like changing phone numbers :) Ironic, as the accounts were hand-me downs originally with regional CDMA carrier PrimeCo. They went bankrupt and ATTWS bought their subscriber base and forced a switchover to TDMA. Now I've migrated to their GSM.. all w/o ever changing numbers...