Dell makes a Windows Embedded PDA?

[Andy Sjostrom]

<a href="http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/02/10/21/021021opcringely.xml">http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/02/10/21/021021opcringely.xml</a><br /><br />InfoWorld correspondent Robert X. Cringely® recently brought up the upcoming Dell PDA in his "Notes from the field" column: "A Dell executive told my spy that Dell will be introducing PDAs later this year. Although that has been previously reported, my spy did manage to get out of the exec that Dell will issue a handheld running embedded Windows XP with some voice-command functions. Expect it around Christmas, the spy said." (Source Foo Fighter)<br /><br />True or false? Will Dell go niche and go with Windows Embedded or will Dell stay true to their volume and mainstream business model and go with Windows CE and Pocket PC? I'll eat my hat if Dell does not go with the latter. Mr. Cringley is wrong, I believe.

[jayman]

Well the oqo is an embedded XP pda and has been causing a stir.
I think it may be the way forward.
No more lite limited versions of sofware needed?

[xbalance]

This sounds closer to what it is I am looking for. I am less interested in a PDA that is a telephone and more interested in a PDA that is a media center.

I would like to see the PDAs move closer to the Archos Studio Media player. I would love to have a PDA has all the functionality of the current PDAs + a 20G HD + FM tuner + USB 2.0 + TV Tuner.

I wish Dell would hurry up and release their product specs. The suspense is killing me.

[jmulder]

Mr. Cringley is wrong, I believe.

I'm with you, Andy. What's infinitely more likely than Dell releasing an XP-based PDA by Christmas is that the exec was confused about what the PDA ran. I can hear the conversation now...

Cringley - "Does it run CE?"
Exec - "No, it runs Windows."
Cringley(stunned) - "You mean Windows XP?"
Exec - "Yes."

Cringley then proceeds to write a blurb for is column based on the 'fact' he received from a Dell exec. He doesn't bother to check the 'fact' because he wants to be the first to break the story...besides, this is supposed to be secret stuff, so who in their right mind would confirm this?

-Jim

[Sven Johannsen]

Well the oqo is an embedded XP pda and has been causing a stir.
I think it may be the way forward.
No more lite limited versions of sofware needed?

The oqo is not an embedded XP device, it is a full windows XP device. Embedded is a flavor of the OS normally designed into a niche device for a specific purpose, such as embedded NT running Kiosks or embedded CE running Coke machines. The oqo is a full PC running a full version of windows XP (at this point).

[Marcel_Proust]

This sounds closer to what it is I am looking for. I am less interested in a PDA that is a telephone and more interested in a PDA that is a media center.

I would like to see the PDAs move closer to the Archos Studio Media player. I would love to have a PDA has all the functionality of the current PDAs + a 20G HD + FM tuner + USB 2.0 + TV Tuner.

I wish Dell would hurry up and release their product specs. The suspense is killing me.

this machine might be the one you are waiting for but dell will not be the company introducing it. if these machines take off, then toshiba, sony, hp will start producing them en masse. only then will dell start producing good solid spec but unexciting knockoffs at cheaper prices. to do otherwise would be a foolish change to a company brand image that is working for them.

[Marcel_Proust]

This sounds closer to what it is I am looking for. I am less interested in a PDA that is a telephone and more interested in a PDA that is a media center.

I would like to see the PDAs move closer to the Archos Studio Media player. I would love to have a PDA has all the functionality of the current PDAs + a 20G HD + FM tuner + USB 2.0 + TV Tuner.

I wish Dell would hurry up and release their product specs. The suspense is killing me.

this machine might be the one you are waiting for but dell will not be the company introducing it. if these machines take off, then toshiba, sony, hp will start producing them en masse. only then will dell start producing good solid spec but unexciting knockoffs at cheaper prices. to do otherwise would be a foolish change to a company brand image that is working for them.

p.s. i have some doubts too about the oqo and the windows xp on a handheld. the strategy for xp and it's predecessors is always to create a push for a need for faster desktops. this doesn't quite fit on the same scale as handhelds. the two models may be incompatible or least disadvantageous to creating the smallest sleekest handheld machines possible, which as time and time again shows is what sells well.

[Timothy Rapson]

"By Christmas"......of what year? 2004???

[st63z]

I really wish PPCs would come with an embedded 1.8" HDD. An iPAQ 5000 w/ 20GB, at the same size :)

Barring that, when's the next gen of IBM Microdrives coming out (6 gigs wasn't it)??

[ThomasC22]

this machine might be the one you are waiting for but dell will not be the company introducing it. if these machines take off, then toshiba, sony, hp will start producing them en masse. only then will dell start producing good solid spec but unexciting knockoffs at cheaper prices. to do otherwise would be a foolish change to a company brand image that is working for them.

I tend to agree with you, Dell is not an innovator. That's no secret, they're a mass producer and always have been. I remember them specifically saying they would not enter the PDA market until it was well-established. Now, we're to believe that in the course of a few months they've come full circle and are planning to try to create a NEW PDA market?

I don't think so...

[st63z]

I would like to see the PDAs move closer to the Archos Studio Media player. I would love to have a PDA has all the functionality of the current PDAs + a 20G HD + FM tuner + USB 2.0 + TV Tuner.

Built-in HDD is key. From basic external HDDs (Archos MiniHD, Addonics Pocket ExDrive, etc) to stand-alone devices that I've bought (Archos Jukebox MultiMedia), all that storage is always convenient...

[ZATZAi]

This subject was brought up in my PPC email group. Jurt Shintaku from Microsoft in Santa Monica replied that no it would not Windows XP, but Windows CE EUU3; most likely he added...

[Jonathon Watkins]

This subject was brought up in my PPC email group. Jurt Shintaku from Microsoft in Santa Monica replied that no it would not Windows XP, but Windows CE EUU3; most likely he added...

That makes a lot more sense. It would be nice though - you could use the same apps as on your desktop etc. - actually though - XP on a tiny screen ........ ummm - pass - we need a UI redesign for that to happen!

[kagayaki1]

I would like to see the PDAs move closer to the Archos Studio Media player. I would love to have a PDA has all the functionality of the current PDAs + a 20G HD + FM tuner + USB 2.0 + TV Tuner.

Built-in HDD is key. From basic external HDDs (Archos MiniHD, Addonics Pocket ExDrive, etc) to stand-alone devices that I've bought (Archos Jukebox MultiMedia), all that storage is always convenient...

This is ridiculous to think that PDAs are going to shift away into a segment like this. They are designed as portable devices. Witha 20GB HDD and some of the other goodies you listed here, I'd be hard pressed to think ANY battery would make this thing portable.

Everyone uses the iPOD as a prime example of what kind of storage a PDA could have, but the iPOD form factor and the PDA form factor are going to have to meet somewhere in the middle. I don't think most PDA users the manufacturers are targeting are looking for huge amounts of hard drive space. You could always go with a PC sleeve and 5GB Toshiba drive as a makeshift solution. I've also seen many examples of people using a PC card IDE controller to hook up hard drives. I'll see about that link...

Stick with Small Form Factor stuff for what you two are talking about.

[ThomasC22]

Stick with Small Form Factor stuff for what you two are talking about.

First, I do agree that at this point in time a PDA with a 20Gb hard drive would be a bad idea. But as to the near future, I think you're underestimating technology.

I mean, methane technology alone is promising batteries that last for months in Cell. Phones, solid state memory is growing in leaps and bounds (as far as capacity goes), and reflective screens are taking less and less power.

I'd wouldn't be surprised if we saw some serious capacity in PDAs within the next year or so.

[Jason Dunn]

20 GB storage in portable device = good idea
20 GB spinning hard drive in portable device = bad idea

:lol:

[Jonathon Watkins]

20 GB storage in portable device = good idea
20 GB spinning hard drive in portable device = bad idea

:lol:

YES - solid state is the way to got for portable devices - unless you have a RAID 5 array of mini Hard disks in your PDA. :lol:

[Sven Johannsen]

I've also seen many examples of people using a PC card IDE controller to hook up hard drives. I'll see about that link...


Don't know about IDE interfaces, but definately SCSI. see...
http://www.phm.lu/PocketPC/Articles/SCSI.asp

Sort takes the Pocket outa PocketPC though.

[st63z]

Actually the Archos and Addonics models I listed in my earlier post all use 2.5" laptop HDDs, which are bigger/more power hungry than the 1.8" HDDs (which those PC Card HDDs use).

To tell the truth, after comparing sizes with the iPod (which does use an embedded 1.8" drive) and looking at its innards online, it seems as if the iPod could've been made smaller. For example, open up the Archos Jukebox Multimedia (which isn't that much bigger than the iPod) and see how efficiently space minimized it is! I was amazed. Even more considering the Jukebox MM's extra features over the iPod: a 2.5" drive, color LCD, can display photos and MPEG-4 video, can play *and* record MP3s, you can attach flash card reader modules, camera/camcorder modules, USB2/1394/PC Card interfaces, etc. And, I didn't use it much, but the removable Lithium batt life seems impressively longer than my iPAQs (it's definitely rated longer on paper).

Imagine if Archos had been using an embedded 1.8" drive to begin with :) Even w/ a 2.5" drive the Jukebox MM's about 4.5" x 3" x 1.1" if I recall -- smaller in HxW than the iPAQ, though about twice as thick. But smaller overall than a PC Card sleeved iPAQ...

Heh, talking about this reminds me of the OQO (WinXP powered handheld), which had spec'ed a 10GB embedded 1.8" HDD, 256MB RAM, 4" VGA LCD, at 4.1" x 2.9" x .9" @ 9oz. Not to mention the 1GHz Crusoe, built-in USB, 1394, 802.11, Bluetooth, etc. Again much smaller overall than iPAQ + PC Card sleeve!

Then again you guys are probably right, spinning disks are bad and the whole thing's not feasible now? :(

[Newsboy]

The problem is not the spinning disk per se. There are several keys to the iPOD's battery life:

1) No color screen. This alone saves massive amounts of battery life. I forget, is it backlit even?

2) The hard disk in the iPOD is accessed ONLY when you call up a new song. As soon as the file being played is cached, the hard disk shuts down and saves energy. Apple can design the device specifically to do this, since that's all it does.

With a PocketPC, there is no such utility. When you play an MP3, the device reads the information off of the spinning disk on the HD at the rate at which it reads the data. It would be difficult to build an energy management scheme into a PPC hard drive as they have in the iPOD, because the data access characteristics are so different from what the iPOD is designed to do.

We need to see smarter energy management before a spinning disk HD becomes a realistic option for a PPC. Either through better caching to main memory, or perhaps an 8 meg cache built into the HD itself, with better power management from the HD.

[ThomasC22]

The problem is not the spinning disk per se. There are several keys to the iPOD's battery life:


I think these issues are all simply near-term problems. Solid state will eventually take over, and yes, until it does we're going to have a bunch of specialized devices (MP3 Players, PDAs, etc...) all doing eachother's job to a certain extent but not really (e.g. iPod's keeping contacts, PocketPC's playing MP3s).

Then eventually we'll see convergence when the technology straightens itself out.

[st63z]

All these power issues make sense. It's just when you look at a PC Card, and just for fun try to imagine the iPAQ juuust a bit thicker to embed it on the back, doesn't seem so hard :) And actually an embedded 1.8" drive would be a bit smaller than a full-blown PC Card...

I'm curious though, what's the biggest flash PC Card capacity available? If they can squeeze a GB into an SD card...

[xbalance]

After having and Ipaq with a 2gb pcmcia card, and wanting for more capacity for all my mp3s, I finally came to the realization that the two worlds will not meet in the near future. I am referring to the HD based MP3 player world and the Pocket PC world.

I bought and Archos Jukebox with FM tuner and now I will wait for my dream PPC to come out and not have to look for PCMCIA HD expansion capability. What a relief :)

Cheers