Windows XP Media Center Edition reviewed

[Jason Dunn]

<a href="http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/windowsxp_mediacenter.asp">http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/windowsxp_mediacenter.asp</a><br /><br />Paul Thurrot, the guy who gets to try everything Microsoft before anyone else, has written a great review of the Windows XP Media Center Edition PC. I had a chance to get some hands-on time with one at the recent Mobius event, and I was really impressed - Microsoft seems to have put a lot of effort into the concept, and the interface was slick and fast. What's that you say? A full-screen interface from Microsoft that's fast? Yup. Apparently it's a DirectX engine, and it was so fluid I thought it was built from Flash. <br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/dunn2002/windowsmediacenter.gif" /><br /><br />I told the Program Manager who was demoing it that I thought they should use that engine for all the GUI elements in XP - we need something as slick as the Quartz engine on the Mac. :D Even on a powerful PC, the graphics engine on XP still gets bogged down and requires a ridiculous amount of CPU resources for the most basic screen draws. This is one of those things that seems to be low on the list of future improvements because it doesn't add to the "bottom line" like other XP features do. <!><br /><br />I nearly hugged the product manager when he told me that not only would the Media Center be able to control a digital cable box, but it's smart programming features would work in Canada. What? CANADA? Hooray! :lol: It's a beautiful thing people - let's say you like watching a certain series. Two taps of a button, and it tags the entire series for recording, ensuring that you'll never miss out again. It took us until 2002 to get something this simple? Yeah, I know Tivo can do this, but they don't offer service to Canadians. Grr. :evil: At any rate, I was extremely impressed with the speed and simplicity of the entire system. I'm considering purchasing one when they come out, even though I don't really need another PC right now - the abilities this box offers are truly impressive.<br /><br />Right now the Media Center will be sold only with new PCs - HP is the biggest vendor offering a solution, but others will come on board in early 2003. There's been a lot of complaining from the power users about this, because they have the power PCs but need the software to pull it off. I think Microsoft is doing the smart thing by controlling the platform tightly - it makes working out the bugs and improving the product much easier when you know the hardware people are using (shades of Apple anyone?). <br /><br />And now that Microsoft has <a href="http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_mediacenter_copy.asp">opted to allow copying of the content</a>, this whole scenario gets a lot sweeter - I'd love to burn a DVD with a few TV shows and watch them away from home.<br /><br />Here's a blurb from Thurrot's article:<br /><br />"So what is XP MCE? Essentially, it's Windows XP Professional Service Pack 1 (SP1) with an additional application, Media Center, and related supporting services. XP MCE runs only on media center PCs, which include modern processors, fast video cards, FireWire connectivity for attaching a DV camera, a TV tuner card for interacting with a cable or satellite signal, and, optionally, other multimedia features, including a DVD writer, surround sound speakers, and front-panel access to the types of memory cards used by most digital cameras. This year, only Hewlett-Packard will be shipping media center PCs in the US, and I'll be reviewing the final hardware here on the SuperSite in early November; this review focuses solely on the software. But other companies, such as Samsung, are marketing media center PCs in other locales, and Microsoft will announce new partners and markets for XP MCE in 2003."

[DavidHorn]

I wish it was possible to run just the software on any PC. I have a high-end PC with both a TV tuner card and a digital satellite card, as well as an audigy sound card, and I'd love to be able to control the lot from the Media Centre interface.

[dochall]

Only doing it as a complete system is a mistake. There are many people already using pc's in the living rooms either as home theatre pcs or as MP3 servers. This people are crying out for this kind of if but aren't going to buy a new machine to get it.

[pt]

Only doing it as a complete system is a mistake. There are many people already using pc's in the living rooms either as home theatre pcs or as MP3 servers. This people are crying out for this kind of if but aren't going to buy a new machine to get it.

this isn't for the pro-user with the ability to set up a system like that, it's geared towards a different auidence.

it's cool stuff, i've got to use one.

cheers,
pt

[vetteguy]

All I can say is....BOOOOOOOO to Microsoft for only making it available with new machines. I have a machine that will easliy outclass ANYTHING HP or Toshiba would put out bundled with this OS. I will NOT buy a crappy $2000 machine just so I can have this OS. They scream about piracy, then make a new OS unavailable to anyone who already has a machine they want to run it on. Sorry, but this is a terrible decision.

[Sven Johannsen]

I must agree with the others. I have the machine, need the OS. I clearly understand the "shades of Apple" aside in Jason's article, but think MS could clearly define the hardware requirements and leave it to the consumer to choose whether they want it to work or not. i.e. buy the HCL stuff.

It would be really nice if the PC manufactures would think about where these boxes are going to be used. A form factor that has the same footprint as a typical AudioVisual device, Tuner, Amp, DVD player, etc. would be great. Then it could sit in my stereo cabinet. As it is, PCs are too deep to fit in there. A remote keyboard (with trackball/touch pad) would be the thing to have here, plus the standard remote sort of thing.

[icatar]

It would be really nice if the PC manufactures would think about where these boxes are going to be used. A form factor that has the same footprint as a typical AudioVisual device, Tuner, Amp, DVD player, etc. would be great. Then it could sit in my stereo cabinet. As it is, PCs are too deep to fit in there. A remote keyboard (with trackball/touch pad) would be the thing to have here, plus the standard remote sort of thing.

Sounds like you may have the next million dollar idea! Hmmmm...

[PPCRules]

There's a lot of other aspects of the product we could be talking about, but until someone moves onto those, I'll put my $.02 in on the side that Microsoft is making a very good decision to offer it only on new machines.

The main point I'd make is that this allows the product to get to us, the users, way sooner. While running my upgrade to Windows XP, I had plenty of time to think, and I was trying to picture the enormity of the task of building an install program that people will expect to put on any PC hardware, from any manufactuer, with any manufacturer's accessories stuck in and onto the machine. I was actually surprised at how good things did work, even on a year old, major manufacturer machine. Even testing such an install process probably adds six months to the release date and 100's of million dollars. So since the choice would be a) make the product available now, or b) wait six months more to serve a few more people, I think the wise business move is a) and so is the one that adequately serves the vast majority of purchasers.

[Furan]

Actually, the graphics engine doesn't improve because of GDI and backwards compatibility :(. Video card manufacturers are much more concerned about the ddraw/d3d acceleration working well than they are about the GDI apis performing well at all. The composited desktop and new graphics/windowing engine may make it into Longhorn, which will change things, as that will all be accelerated well(and it will be important to vendors to support it well).
-Ian

[johncj]

I have a question for those of you who "have the machine". Where did you get the remote control that runs your computer? Seriously, when I first heard this, I was upset, but after talking with some folks at Microsoft about this, I'm beginning to think it was a good idea. I look at XP media center as being more along the lines of XP embedded than a mainstream OS. These are special-purpose devices, appliances, if you will. Pocket PC, XBOX, Tablet PC, Windows for Automotive are also in same continuum of "not quite computers" running some variant of Windows. Is anybody upset that they can't run XBOX apps on their PC?

[dochall]

Only doing it as a complete system is a mistake. There are many people already using pc's in the living rooms either as home theatre pcs or as MP3 servers. This people are crying out for this kind of if but aren't going to buy a new machine to get it.

this isn't for the pro-user with the ability to set up a system like that, it's geared towards a different auidence.

it's cool stuff, i've got to use one.

cheers,
pt

Well it depends what you mean by pro user ... if we take it to mean power user then that is who I am talking about.

However the people who already do this stuff have to use a cobbled together system which is not ideal. Even if you are a power user you don't want to have to compromise on the UI particualarly if MS has a UI/OS combo that you could use.

These guys (and just about me but I haven't built a system yet) may argue about the qualities of the Theatertek DVD software player against PowerDVD or the benefits of an Msound sound card as opposed to an Audigy but we're all still users. Most households with that kind of system also have a family that needs to use it. While Dad (or mom for that matter) may spend hours on avsforum.com their partner and kids don't.

By not releasing it as a standalone product MS are forcing these guys to explorer replacements like Talisman. If they released standalone as a flavour or option for XP they could make it the standard OS for all the pioneers that are already doing it.

[arkman]

I love this stuff, but I already have a couple of computers so I'm not going to buy another one just so that I can run this. As stated already you can do this fine with existing hardware and software.

Have a look at:
http://www.media-box.org/
It ain't nearly as polished, but it works and it's mostly free. Yes, free!

I'm sure there are some more out there as well.

[FredMurphy]

Having to buy a new PC is SUCH a bad idea. I've already got the set-up I need including a 5.1 sound card, 42" plasma screen and don't want to buy another. For those of you wondering how to use a remote with this, I use IRMan (http://www.evation.com/irman/). It's not perfect but it works.

Oh well - if you can't buy it without the hardware you can bet it will still be available from less legitimate sources. :?

A PC in a form that fits with your stereo - that's something I've thought about trying to build myself. Would definitely a top seller now that more people use a PC as an MP3 player.

Fred

[dochall]

I have a question for those of you who "have the machine". Where did you get the remote control that runs your computer? Is anybody upset that they can't run XBOX apps on their PC?

Well it may not have been a serious questio but:

irman - http://www.evation.com/irman/

A review of IRA - http://www.icrontic.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=181

Girder for automation (freeware) - www.girder.nl

As far as remotes are concerned pick any programmable you want. Pronto being the obvious one or indeed you could use the 3900.

So there is your answer if it was serious question. If on the other hand is was supposed to be some kind of smart ass remark then just because you don't know it exists doesn't mean it doesn't, dimwit :roll:

As far as it being a 'embedded' xp that is total tosh. The hardware requirements for it are: (from ms.com)
Media Center PC may include the following components to enhance your entertainment experience:

A Media Center compatible remote control that keeps all of the entertainment on your computer within easy reach, and complements the keyboard and mouse.
A remote infrared (IR) sensor that enables the remote control to communicate with the computer, and also controls your cable or satellite set-top box.
An advanced graphics card for displaying the best TV experience on your computer monitor.
A TV tuner that captures your television signal from a cable, satellite, or antenna source.
A hardware encoder that enables you to record TV shows from cable, satellite, or antenna to your computer's hard disk.
A TV output that allows you to display Media Center content on a television connected to your computer.
A digital audio output that allows you to integrate digital audio from your computer into an existing home entertainment system

People have been building machines with these capabilities (and more) for years.

No there is nothing on the Xbox that I want but then it has a specified architecture and a different OS. It not just a pc with some add-in cards.

[Sven Johannsen]

I have a question for those of you who "have the machine". Where did you get the remote control that runs your computer?

Here's one http://mirror.ati.com/products/pc/remotewonder/index.html .

Heck 6 years ago (or so) I bought a Packard Bell Pentium 133 at Best Buy that had a remote control, TV/FM tuner, etc.

I'd be happy with a remote keyboard that has an integral pointing device. (don't want a seperate mouse in that case) like these http://www.fentek-ind.com/rf-wireless-keyboard.htm#kbmrftb

[don dre]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but otehr than being able to control the cable box, what is the advantage of this over say, the All-in-Wonder. I'm actually excited about the new All-in-Wonder based on the R300 chip. It has a radio remote and everything else. Also, with such a device, can;t you just control the channels through the pc? (if you have regular cable and not digital)

[don dre]

ALL-IN-WONDER® 9700 PRO
overview

Redefine the word Ultimate. The ALL-IN-WONDER® 9700 PRO is the ultimate visual and home entertainment experience for your PC. It combines the fastest 3D gaming performance, superior television and entertainment features, along with easy-to-use video editing and capture found in a graphics card. With 128MB DDR memory, the ALL-IN-WONDER® 9700 PRO is the first to support Microsoft® DirectX® 9.0, AGP 8X, utilize THEATER™ 200 for stereo and video decoding and processing, and have dual TV-tuner capabilities in its class.

At-a-glance
Powered by the RADEON™ 9700 PRO visual processing unit
Unparalleled TV and DVD features: TV-ON-DEMAND™, Gemstar GUIDE Plus+™, mulTView™, VIDEOSOAP™, THRUVIEW™ and much more
Easily edit video into your own creations: Video CD and DVD Authoring
128 MB DDR memory
AGP 8X support
Complete DirectX® 9.0 support
30 foot user interface for hand held remote control to control your pc applications
Use component output to watch TV, DVDs, and videos on your High Definition TVs
features
Unparalleled TV and DVD Features
Stereo TV tuner with 125 channels
TV-ON-DEMAND™ Get your own personal video recorder on your PC! Schedule, record and playback your favourite TV broadcasts at your convenience
No-fee integrated Gemstar GUIDE Plus+™ for scheduling and recording of TV programs

Amazing TV features include:
TV Magazine1 - images and text from TV programs allowing you to read and archive TV programs
Hot Words1 - real-time notification when selected words are detected in programming
Zoom & pan - zoom in on the action on-screen and choose your own close-ups
Intelligent Teletext on your PC2
1Available in North America only. 2Available in Europe only.

mulTView™ allows you to watch and record two separate programs at the same time and provide added feature such as Picture-in-Picture*
Radio frequency wireless remote for your PC provides a hand held 30-foot user interface. Control your mouse and PC applications at the click of a button.+
THRUVIEW™ allows for translucent viewing of TV, DVD and video file playback
Use component output to allow for watching of TV, DVDs, and playing video games on high definition devices.
VIDEOSOAP™ technology cleans up image blockiness on TV and video captures for clearer and crisper files
*TV WONDER™ VE or TV WONDER™ required for dual TV tuner capabilities.
+Available USB port required.
Easily Edit Videos In Your Own Creations
Powerful video editing allows you to add effects, transitions, and sound to video footage.
Capture still images and analog video in MPEG-2 format at resolution up to 720 X 480 and 30 frames per second to create your own creations.
Easily save files into VideoCD and DVD format

Superior 3D Graphics
Powered by the RADEON™ 9700 PRO Visual Processing Unit (VPU)
Industry's first 8-pixel pipeline architecture, providing twice the rendering power of any competing product currently on the market
Complete Microsoft® DirectX® 9.0 support
128MB DDR memory accelerates the latest 3D games and applications
256-bit memory interface removes hardware performance bottleneck and provides users with faster 3D graphics
AGP 8X support
Featuring CATALYST™, industry leading software suite

Revolutionary New Video Features
THEATER™ 200 provides exceptional video quality viewing during live TV and video input and capture.
ATI's new FULLSTREAM™ technology removes blocky artifacts from streaming Internet video and provides sharper image quality
Unique VIDEOSHADER™ engine uses programmable pixel shaders to accelerate video processing and provide better-looking visuals

[vincentsiaw]

All I can say is....BOOOOOOOO to Microsoft for only making it available with new machines. I have a machine that will easliy outclass ANYTHING HP or Toshiba would put out bundled with this OS. I will NOT buy a crappy $2000 machine just so I can have this OS. They scream about piracy, then make a new OS unavailable to anyone who already has a machine they want to run it on. Sorry, but this is a terrible decision.

agree with you 100% man oh ya talkin about piracy, don't you worry to much, the folk from asian countries will copied it in one month time, and in addition you can buy the pirated os for dirt cheap there :wink:

[vetteguy]

Someone mentioned that by doing it this way it "got this into the hands of consumers faster". I disagree. I have no problem with them selling machines with the OS already loaded. That is probably the optimal solution for users who are unwilling or unable to build their own machine. But where would the majority of users come from? The power users who already have a powerful machine (and may already have a Home Theater PC setup). The average eMachines/AOL user is not going to want something like this until it is as mainstream as a VCR, so Microsoft is really shooting itself in the foot by requiring us to buy a whole new machine that we don't want. And the argument about this being a step towards XP embedded doesn't work either, because this is not an applicance, this is a fully functioning PC running the full version of XP. If this were a $500 set top box, that would be a different story.

[johncj]

To: Dochall

It was a serious question. I haven't used any of the devices you linked to, but they don't appear to have the level of integration that XP Media Center does. Despite your rudeness, you are wrong about XBOX. It runs what is effectively W2K embedded (there is no such product from Microsoft). You really ought to do your homework before insulting people. I didn't say that Media Center was embedded XP, just that the philosophy was the same.

[dochall]

To: Dochall

It was a serious question. I haven't used any of the devices you linked to, but they don't appear to have the level of integration that XP Media Center does. Despite your rudeness, you are wrong about XBOX. It runs what is effectively W2K embedded (there is no such product from Microsoft). You really ought to do your homework before insulting people. I didn't say that Media Center was embedded XP, just that the philosophy was the same.

Don't see how think it was rude I only called you a dimwit if it wasn't a serious question.

The lack of integration is the whole point. Pioneers have been doing the equivalent of the functionality provided by Media Centre for years. By not allowing these people to install media centre they are effectively disenfranchising those pioneers.

How am I wrong about the XBox? Are you saying it doesn't have prescribed architecture or that it doesn't run a different os?

Come on, the dimwit prize is still available :twisted:

[ggoode]

I can't seem to find it anywhere. Does anyone know when it is planned for release?

Thanks, Greg

[johncj]

Don't see how think it was rude I only called you a dimwit if it wasn't a serious question.

The lack of integration is the whole point. Pioneers have been doing the equivalent of the functionality provided by Media Centre for years. By not allowing these people to install media centre they are effectively disenfranchising those pioneers.

How am I wrong about the XBox? Are you saying it doesn't have prescribed architecture or that it doesn't run a different os?

Come on, the dimwit prize is still available :twisted:

I thought I stated clearly that XBOX ran a form of Windows 2000. Yes, it has a prescribed architecture which is closer to the typical PC than the hardware requirements for Media Center. By your argument, I could say pioneers have been playing games on the PC for years, and by not releasing the XBOX OS for people to install on their PC's, Microsoft is disenfranchising all those people who've been playing PC games. Tell me how that's different. In fact, the XBOX OS is even more disenfranchising, because you can't run any W2K software on the box at all.

[Jason Dunn]

I can't seem to find it anywhere. Does anyone know when it is planned for release?

It will be out in a matter of weeks...

[dochall]

Don't see how think it was rude I only called you a dimwit if it wasn't a serious question.

The lack of integration is the whole point. Pioneers have been doing the equivalent of the functionality provided by Media Centre for years. By not allowing these people to install media centre they are effectively disenfranchising those pioneers.

How am I wrong about the XBox? Are you saying it doesn't have prescribed architecture or that it doesn't run a different os?

Come on, the dimwit prize is still available :twisted:

I thought I stated clearly that XBOX ran a form of Windows 2000. Yes, it has a prescribed architecture which is closer to the typical PC than the hardware requirements for Media Center. By your argument, I could say pioneers have been playing games on the PC for years, and by not releasing the XBOX OS for people to install on their PC's, Microsoft is disenfranchising all those people who've been playing PC games. Tell me how that's different. In fact, the XBOX OS is even more disenfranchising, because you can't run any W2K software on the box at all.

So let's get this straight - it does run on a prescribed architecture and it does run a different os. So I repeat how can you see I am wrong about the Xbox.

The prize is all shiny :twisted:

[johncj]

To Dochall:

One last try at this. Windows 2000 and Windows XP are the same operating system, just different versions. Every single version of Windows NT has had "a prescribed architecture". It's called the Hardware Compatibility List. The XBOX OS HCL is just a little more limited than XP Media Center. So, I think you're wrong because it is the same OS and it's "prescribed architecture" is simply a very specific PC.

[Rob Alexander]

Only doing it as a complete system is a mistake. There are many people already using pc's in the living rooms either as home theatre pcs or as MP3 servers. This people are crying out for this kind of if but aren't going to buy a new machine to get it.

this isn't for the pro-user with the ability to set up a system like that, it's geared towards a different auidence.

Then they probalby should have done something about this.... (quote from the review)

"As such, setting up a media center PC is pretty difficult. The beta units came with a bizarre assortment of hardware, some of which you had to use in order to get it working, while others you had to ignore..."

It sounds like you'll need to be a pro-user just to set it up. They can't have it both ways. 'This isn't for power users; you can't have it for your existing hardware,' simulatneously with 'sorry but you have to be a pro-user to set it up; this is a computer after all.'

They may think the market is with non-techie users, but they're wrong. It's hardcore media fans who'll be interested in this, and they'll want the software/remote only.

[jayman]

I only joined for the contests!!

SO - does the new media hub xp sytem thingy come with an "ANY" key
none of my other micro****e has one and most programs need one
to run.

That's a serious question so the shiny prize is mine.

8O - it can go on the shelf between my betamax videos and laserdiscs.

[ECOslin]

I've got an old Divx-type dvd player that the power supply went bad in.

My intentions for more than a year have been to take that component case and mount a motherboard and hard drives and make it a remote controlled media center. Networked TV recorder and Mp3 jukebox.

Whats held me up is my uncertainty of which capture card to use. The case doesn't come anywhere near full height, so I can't add a PCI/AGP capture card(or the ones I've heard of at least). I was thinking about adding a USB capture card from ATI(All-in-wonder USB), however, I've heard that it's performance isn't up to par. Which to use?

XP media sounds like software I'd want to use to simplify things. I expect the software to pop-up in a couple of months on Ebay or thru Pricewatch.

Edward

[jeff]

A PC in a form that fits with your stereo - that's something I've thought about trying to build myself. Would definitely a top seller now that more people use a PC as an MP3 player.


I'm building just that. I have an old single disc CD player that I've ripped the guts out of and hacked down a bit. Now I'm just waiting for the new Via Epia M motherboards to become available and for the power supply I ordered to finally get back in stock. I've already bought a wireless keyboard/pointing device combo and I have an ATI Remote Wonder from another machine.

I don't think I'll be putting a TV capture card in it, but for those working on a similar project, you can get a flexible PCI riser card and mount the capture card parallel to the motherboard. I've forgotten where I saw them, but it's just a PCI connector attached to a ribbon cable with a PCI slot on the other end. Shouldn't be too hard.

Jeff

[FredMurphy]

Jeff - let me know when you've finished. I may have a go at it if yours turns out OK. I thought about transferring the guts of the PC I use now into a case that matches my Denon surround sound amp (it's pretty large).

[dochall]

To Dochall:

One last try at this. Windows 2000 and Windows XP are the same operating system, just different versions. Every single version of Windows NT has had "a prescribed architecture". It's called the Hardware Compatibility List. The XBOX OS HCL is just a little more limited than XP Media Center. So, I think you're wrong because it is the same OS and it's "prescribed architecture" is simply a very specific PC.

No Windows 2000 and XP are not the same os (the clue is in the name).

Windows XP is built on an enhanced Windows 2000 code base


Bill_L[MS]
Q: XBOX and XP embedded. any link ?

Bill_L[MS]
A: XBox uses its specialized OS optimized for gaming console, whereas XPE is a general embedded OS.

He doesn't say actually they're just differnt versions of the same OS.


If they were the same OS Microsoft is making lots of money for very little. What you may have meant to say is that they share the same architecture which is true.

The Hardware Compatibility List is simply a text list of hardware compatible with the machine, how you could possibly say that it is just a little more restricted than Media centre makes you definition of 'little' interesting. Not from Tx are you?

So Microsoft say it's a different OS and you say it has a prescribed architecture so I repeat how am I wrong?

The real point here, apart from you being wrong :P , is that the Xbox is running a subset of an NT architected OS, Media centre is running a super set of an NT architecture, and more specifically a superset of XP. Anything I can plug into a XP machine I will also be able to run in a media centre PC and vice versa. The difference between the two versions is not any low level functionality but at the presentation layer, something that could have, and should have been sold to the people that are already doing this.

[Steven Cedrone]

d & j: Please take your "discussion" offline...

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

[Orange]

agree with you 100% man oh ya talkin about piracy, don't you worry to much, the folk from asian countries will copied it in one month time, and in addition you can buy the pirated os for dirt cheap there :wink:

Who needs to wait for them to pirate it? With a little bit of searching, you'll find that has already been released on the web...for free.

Of course, I am not in any way advocating obtaining the software in this manner, but for those of you who are interested...it's definitely out there.

[nirav28]

10 bucks this thing gets hacked and leaked on a warez site very soon. Even if it is made for some proprietary hardware. Someone will figure out a way to make it work with off the shelf TV tuner cards with WDM drivers.


I mean..Look at the Xbox.Geez..I just bought a xbox and I was looking solutions at "making it more flexible". and the options are limitless.


Although I recently read of a survey microsoft did and they asked people if they would interested in a application that would allow them to view media files on their Xbox over their home network. Majority replied "Yes". So microsoft might actually release something similar just for that niche group.