End User Update 3 Coming Soon

[Jason Dunn]

EUU3, the third service pack for the Pocket PC, has been released by Microsoft to the various OEMs. A timeline for release aren't known at this time - most OEMs have to customize certain elements (typically drivers), but based on the timeline for EUU2, we should see OEMs releasing this in November. What does EUU3 add? The biggest addition is Windows Media Player 8.5, and it brings <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmedia">9 Series Windows Media</a> support with it. I've been told there are performance improvements (I believe in the form of Xscale optimizations), play list management improvements, and integration with Connection Manager. Pocket Internet Explorer now supports moving form fields using the Tab key, and the new default theme is "Bliss". There are also a "bunch of new fixes" that I have no further details on.<br /><br />I'm most excited about the Windows Media Player 8.5 release - previously code-named "Salsa", the support for 9 Series Windows Media comes in advance of the 9 Series tools being finalized. If you've used the 9 Series Media Encoder (make sure System Restore is turned on before install!), you'll see that it has Pocket PC templates included. If memory serves, there are two new templates - one for the standard-sized playback window, and one for landscape 320 x 240. That's right - true full screen. The bit rate of the full screen files are around 250 Kbps, so the quality of the video is decent, but not spectacular. Once it's released I'll do some testing with the encoder to see what kind of limits there are. I find it strange that in the encoder there's no differentiation between an Xscale Pocket PC at 400 mHZ and a StrongARM unit at 206 mHZ.

[DualShock]

Hey Jason, any idea how WMP 8.5 will work for us 36xx iPAQ users that upgraded to Pocket PC 2002? Since WMP is a RAM install, that part of the EUU will probably be disabled. Any word if there will be a RAM upgrade for WMP available for download?

[airconvent]

Hi Jason,
I've had no problems playing videos or wma files on my pda, so an upgrade to wm9 seems redundant.

What is probably more important as we go wireless is for MS to update their Pocket IE to at least version 5. My friends connecting on GPRS reported many sites unable to be displayed at all due to the ver 3.0 currently on all pocket pcs.

Also, the connection setup is way too complicated as compared with PPC2000. I would like to see an option to revert to that mode for low power users like myself. i.e. setting up a modem connection, with proxy, IE options set from IE itself.


Of course, if they can provide html support for inbox, then i would stop seeing those irritating : "Unsupported Text removed from message" and actually seeing my mails!

And yeah...bring back the PPC2000 repeating alarms! I'll rather use back the built in alarms like in my old 548 than have to resort to a third party program like what I am doing now for my 568.

I think alot of people would be thankful if MS could also provide an pocket outlook express suite allowing you to sync newsgroups and outlook express mails with the default program in windows instead of needing to install Outlook 2002 (which ALL my friends find a pain in the XXX due to the inflexible registration process).

...i guess this looks more like the works of a new version rather than a service pack...sigh...


RSKT

[KyleC]

I heard that EUU2 for the Toshiba e310 has just been released, but do I need it downloaded and installed before I download/install EUU3? Do I need then both? I'm new at Pocket PCs (from Palm) so I don't know much about these things, but I bet someone cruising the boards does! :wink:

[sponge]

Damn you Jason for taunting us about supposed XScale optimizations! :P[/quote]

[WillyG]

Great news. I hope the optimization is implemented in more than just WIMP. Oboy have we been waiting for this one!
Ill aim my cannon at Fijutsu Siemens now. (im a proud LOOX user) Gotta make sure they work fast enough and get that update out :lol:

[toshtoshtosh]

Well, it seems Toshiba has already started shipping retail units with EUU3 on them.

The reason for the fast action probably being that they wanted to get the ROM update they'd be working on out there as well.

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=388290#post388290

[Jerome Carney]

Pocket Internet Explorer now supports moving form fields using the Tab key..

I think you may be referring to a new tab interface... I found this posted over on the PocketPC Passion (http://pocketpcpassion.com/forum/showthread.php?s=95ef925918de797aa322440658dfb065&threadid=19648) discussion board: "Another much desired feature is the adding of tabs to Pocket Internet Explorer, allowing different websites to be accessd simultaneously" (source: InfoSync.no (http://www.infosync.no/)).

[Bob Anderson]

I am cautiously optimistic that us iPaq 3600 users who upgraded to PocketPC 2002 will be able to obtain some sort of Media Player update.. or else I'll have to take the plunge and buy the iPaq 39xx, even though I really want the 5000 series that i rumored to be coming out in a few months.

What's a pocket pc lover to do?

Jason ... good work on the reports from the field... keep us informed!

Thanks...

[Ed Hansberry]

I heard that EUU2 for the Toshiba e310 has just been released, but do I need it downloaded and installed before I download/install EUU3? Do I need then both? I'm new at Pocket PCs (from Palm) so I don't know much about these things, but I bet someone cruising the boards does! :wink:

EUUs are like Service Packs for Windows. They are cumulative, so you can install EUU3 on any PPC 2002 device and you will be brought current on EUUs. Gets a bit hairy when you throw ROM updates from OEMs that rebuild the whole device. :?

[vincentsiaw]

wow why microsoft use 8.5 instead of 9? are they goinmg to upgrade it again to 9 series sometimes later ?

[WillyG]

wow why microsoft use 8.5 instead of 9? are they goinmg to upgrade it again to 9 series sometimes later ?

8.5 is the version with bugs buildt in :wink:
9.0 is the fix

[Fabulas]

I hope they fix the fit to screen feature in pocket IE. I actually use pocket IE :lol:

[Gerard]

"Pocket Internet Explorer now supports moving form fields using the Tab key..."
Hmmmm.... gee, my Casio EG-800 (tough version of E-125 with 14.2 extra memory) was manufactured in the fall of 2000, and it still uses the Tab key of my Stowaway to jump from one field to the next in PIE. Always has. I have been rather irritated with PIE in my iPAQ for quite a while because it lacks this simple function, forcing me to pick up my stylus timae and again while forum cruising. So not only does Microsoft release known-broken updates and then 'fix' them in yet further updates, they also 'break' existing functions and then come back a couple of years later and rescue us from the very things they ruined. I really wonder, what the hell goes on over there. Do they all smoke just a whole whack of dope on coffee breaks? That'd explain it well, as doing something like this to users would actually seem quite funny stoned. But in day-to-day use, it is simply infuriating.
Again Jason, while there in Washington, try to get a handle on where their heads are. Never mind the details of the GUI or whatever. Get an answer for us all on how stoned/warped/mean these so-called software developers are, if you can. At least with that kind of information we could get an idea of how to orient our expectations.

[Jason Dunn]

I've had no problems playing videos or wma files on my pda, so an upgrade to wm9 seems redundant.

Have you tried playing a 9 Series encoded video file? You can't. That's what this addresses. :-)

As for the rest of your post, yeah, you're asking for an upgrade, not a service pack - this isn't meant to address those things.

[sponge]

3600 users will be fine, EUU2 had WMP updates, and it just simply won't update them. XIP, what they use for EUU packs, are seperated into the components, and it simply wont install the WMP XIP (it will say it's failed, but don't worry)

[Jason Dunn]

Pocket Internet Explorer now supports moving form fields using the Tab key..

I think you may be referring to a new tab interface... I found this posted over on the PocketPC Passion (http://pocketpcpassion.com/forum/showthread.php?s=95ef925918de797aa322440658dfb065&threadid=19648) discussion board: "Another much desired feature is the adding of tabs to Pocket Internet Explorer, allowing different websites to be accessd simultaneously" (source: InfoSync.no (http://www.infosync.no/)).

Hmm - I had assumed there was a bug moving from field to field with a tab key, but I didn't know they were supporting multiple instances of the browser. I wish they told us more specifics so I'd know for sure.

[Jason Dunn]

I am cautiously optimistic that us iPaq 3600 users who upgraded to PocketPC 2002 will be able to obtain some sort of Media Player update..

This is 100% up to the OEMs. Microsoft gave them the bits, but whether or not Compaq/HP/Toshiba etc. release it is completely up to them. The best thing you can do is email Compaq and ask for it. :D

[Jason Dunn]

Again Jason, while there in Washington, try to get a handle on where their heads are. Never mind the details of the GUI or whatever. Get an answer for us all on how stoned/warped/mean these so-called software developers are, if you can. At least with that kind of information we could get an idea of how to orient our expectations.

Unfortunately, we had very little time with the product managers - we met with Chris Hill (Product Planner for Pocket PC) and the product planner for Smartphone. No PM's from the individual apps, and there wasn't a lot of time for Q&A.

[Registered]

Please, oh please someone tell me that this version of MediaPlayer (8.5) is NOT DRM enabled !

I still get annoyed every single day I start MS Reader and it pops up the "You're not activated" message.

[Jason Dunn]

Please, oh please someone tell me that this version of MediaPlayer (8.5) is NOT DRM enabled !

I still get annoyed every single day I start MS Reader and it pops up the "You're not activated" message.

I don't have it yet, but I've seen it, and it looks and functions just like the old versio - there's no activation message.

[Registered]

I don't have it yet, but I've seen it, and it looks and functions just like the old versio - there's no activation message.

Thanks for the info, Jason !

I just hope there is not the usual "I sign my firstborn over to you, oh master of darkness EULA" to click through to install the update.

I still feel the sour taste of the XP SP1 update (which never got applied, btw) EULA in my mouth.

[Janak Parekh]

I just hope there is not the usual "I sign my firstborn over to you, oh master of darkness EULA" to click through to install the update.

I still feel the sour taste of the XP SP1 update (which never got applied, btw) EULA in my mouth.
You realize, ultimately, that you have no choice in this if you're using MS products. By not installing SP1, you're opening yourself to vulnerabilities... and future MS updates will require SP1.

By the way, it's not all that bad. The "remote control" notions are due to Automatic Updates, primarily...

--bdj

[mclaughlinc]

Jason,

Can you find out if the new Siemens SX 56 has this update already? I checked the Windows Media player and it is ver 8.5.

Thanks,

Corey

[The Half-Ling]

I can't wait for this too be released, I am using a Compaq iPAQ 3635 w/ 3765 32 meg pocket pc 2002 premium rom :)

Jake

[Jonathan1]

Why is everyone so worked up over this? You guys do realize that this update is a year in the making right? IF anything this is a slap in the face of Pocket PC users. :roll:

[Jason Dunn]

Why is everyone so worked up over this? You guys do realize that this update is a year in the making right?

And how do you know this as fact?

[Pony99CA]

I hope they fix the fit to screen feature in pocket IE. I actually use pocket IE :lol:
I've heard people mention this before, but I don't know what it refers to. People say Fit To Screen "worked" in Pocket PC 2000, but not in Pocket PC 2002. I use Pocket IE a fair amount, and haven't noticed any differences.

So what exactly is this problem?

Steve

[Pony99CA]

Again Jason, while there in Washington, try to get a handle on where their heads are. Never mind the details of the GUI or whatever. Get an answer for us all on how stoned/warped/mean these so-called software developers are, if you can. At least with that kind of information we could get an idea of how to orient our expectations.

Unfortunately, we had very little time with the product managers - we met with Chris Hill (Product Planner for Pocket PC) and the product planner for Smartphone. No PM's from the individual apps, and there wasn't a lot of time for Q&amp;A.
&lt;GACK> Gerard asked about software developers, not product managers. Product managers are generally schedule keepers, not developers. If they were software developers at one time, they are typically given frontal lobotomies before being allowed to be product managers. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Steve

[Pony99CA]

I just hope there is not the usual "I sign my firstborn over to you, oh master of darkness EULA" to click through to install the update.

I still feel the sour taste of the XP SP1 update (which never got applied, btw) EULA in my mouth.
You realize, ultimately, that you have no choice in this if you're using MS products. By not installing SP1, you're opening yourself to vulnerabilities... and future MS updates will require SP1.

If you want a Service Pack, of course you have to agree to Microsoft's End User License Agreement (the infamous EULA). However, you are not opening yourself to vulnerabilities by not installing a service pack -- those vulnerabilities are already there, and you are already open to them. (Yes, it's a matter of semantics, but an important one, I think.)

Also, many of the vulnerabilities in Windows (if not on the Pocket PC) are addressed by interim updates. Part of the Service Pack is all of those interim updates. Of course, if you've ever applied an interim update, you know that you also have to agree to a EULA for those, too, but the ones I've applied haven't required registration like the XP SP 1 does. (I'm still running Windows 98 SE, so I can't speak about XP with first-hand knowledge.)

Steve

[Marc Zimmermann]

Please, oh please someone tell me that this version of MediaPlayer (8.5) is NOT DRM enabled !

There's already DRM functionality in WMP right now and like its desktop cousin, it doesn't require activation.

[Fabulas]

I hope they fix the fit to screen feature in pocket IE. I actually use pocket IE :lol:
I've heard people mention this before, but I don't know what it refers to. People say Fit To Screen "worked" in Pocket PC 2000, but not in Pocket PC 2002. I use Pocket IE a fair amount, and haven't noticed any differences.

So what exactly is this problem?

Steve

It works perfect on Pocket PC 2000, but on Pocket PC 2002 it's almost like it does not work at all. It dosen't fit the screen to 240X320, more like 480x640

[Ed Hansberry]

Please, oh please someone tell me that this version of MediaPlayer (8.5) is NOT DRM enabled !

I still get annoyed every single day I start MS Reader and it pops up the "You're not activated" message.
I'm sure it is. WMP from the original PPC 2000 would play DRM content. It just doesn't have the annoying reminder Reader does.

[jeff]

I hope they fix the fit to screen feature in pocket IE. I actually use pocket IE :lol:
I've heard people mention this before, but I don't know what it refers to. People say Fit To Screen "worked" in Pocket PC 2000, but not in Pocket PC 2002. I use Pocket IE a fair amount, and haven't noticed any differences.

So what exactly is this problem?


Go here

http://www.boston.com/globe/lowgraphics/

and click on any of the stories. Under PPC2000 it was usable.

Jeff

[Jason Dunn]

Can you find out if the new Siemens SX 56 has this update already? I checked the Windows Media player and it is ver 8.5.

There's no really easy way to tell, but my hunch is that if you have 8.5, you have EUU3 - which is surprising because it was just released last week. :-)

[Jason Dunn]

&lt;GACK> Gerard asked about software developers, not product managers

In all the years I've been going to these meetings, I've never, ever met an actual coder. The developers have no input into product decisions from what I can tell - if you have feedback about the product, you need to convince the product manager that a certain feature needs to be added or changed. They're the ones with the power to change things, not the developers.

[bdeli]

This is the final list of updates for the SP from Microsoft:

Service Pack for Pocket PC Released

October 11, 2002
Microsoft continually works to improve its Pocket PC software. As part of this effort, we develop updates and fixes to recognized issues and release them for our customers. Because of the differences in hardware designs in Pocket PCs, we release our updates only to our partners who then, in turn, release a device specific update to their users.

The latest update has been released by Microsoft and will be available shortly from device manufacturers. Please be sure to contact your vendor for specific timing.

The latest update includes a new version of Microsoft Windows Media Player for Pocket PC as well as the updates described below:



http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/newsevents/news/sp_10_11_02.asp

[adamz]

http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/images/WMP8.5.gif

Well, it's good to see a better Media Player skin than the one from WMP8! :)

I guess my design from last month was pretty close:
http://skins.pocketnow.com/detailed.cgi?db=skins&id=517

:)

That page (http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/newsevents/news/sp_10_11_02.asp) doesn't seem to say anything specific about Xscale performance improvements though.

[WillyG]

We release our updates only to our partners who then, in turn, release a device specific update to their users.

I look forward to the day we can download and install these updates as soon as they are availiable. Just the way we download software and updates from software manufacturers, and drivers and hardware specific updates from hardware manufacturers on our PC's and Mac's today.
But i guess there will take a while before we get there...

[Fabulas]

well looks like no fix for pocket IE :x This is the only thing that I really have a hang up with as far as pocket PC 2002

[Greybard]

I keep seeing this icon in alot of program screens on the net.

What is it?

http://www.msnbc.com/news/820323.asp

It looks kinda like a funnel with lines going to the right.

Signal strength on some WiFi driver to some WiFi card?

Steve

[Pony99CA]

I keep seeing this icon in alot of program screens on the net.

What is it?

It looks kinda like a funnel with lines going to the right.

Signal strength on some WiFi driver to some WiFi card?

It sounds like the signal strength indicator for Pocket PC Phone Edition.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

&lt;GACK> Gerard asked about software developers, not product managers

In all the years I've been going to these meetings, I've never, ever met an actual coder. The developers have no input into product decisions from what I can tell - if you have feedback about the product, you need to convince the product manager that a certain feature needs to be added or changed. They're the ones with the power to change things, not the developers.
Yeah, I understand how it's supposed to work. But programmers still manage to sneak things in. How do you think Easter eggs get into products? :-)

Also, programmers are the ones who make the bugs happen. :lol:

Steve

[FredMurphy]

I'm just waiting to see if the WMP update means it's less temperamental when playing MP3s. Current version just ignores many of mine and will always skip to the next track at the same point in others. :?

Only just discovered withMP3 which plays them all just fine, so may register this anyway.

[Janak Parekh]

Also, many of the vulnerabilities in Windows (if not on the Pocket PC) are addressed by interim updates. Part of the Service Pack is all of those interim updates. Of course, if you've ever applied an interim update, you know that you also have to agree to a EULA for those, too, but the ones I've applied haven't required registration like the XP SP 1 does. (I'm still running Windows 98 SE, so I can't speak about XP with first-hand knowledge.)
That's not entirely true - there are fixes in SP1 which are apparently not available as individual updates - the Help vulnerability being one of them. There's a workaround to that one, so you're off the hook for now.

Having said that, there will be MS and other software that will require SP1 as a prerequisite. SP1 contains more than just bugfixes, there are updated API's and whatnot.

--bdj

[Janak Parekh]

I'm just waiting to see if the WMP update means it's less temperamental when playing MP3s. Current version just ignores many of mine and will always skip to the next track at the same point in others. :?
If they're high-res MP3's, i.e., more than 160kBps, there's an option in WMP to play high-bitrate audio content - turn that on.

But yes, WMP tends to be a lot flakier with MP3's than WMA. Seeing as how MS hasn't fixed VBR MP3 support on WMP for several generations now, I don't see it improving tremendously. I now use iPlay; people and politics aside it's a spectacularly stable player. (The new one even has Ogg support :D)

--bdj

[Pony99CA]

Also, many of the vulnerabilities in Windows (if not on the Pocket PC) are addressed by interim updates.
That's not entirely true - there are fixes in SP1 which are apparently not available as individual updates - the Help vulnerability being one of them.
What I said is quite true. That's why I said "many of the vulnerabilities", not "all of the vulnerabilities".

Steve