FCC Approves iPAQ 5400

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1040-961393.html?tag=fd_top_5">http://news.com.com/2100-1040-961393.html?tag=fd_top_5</a><br /><br />Looks like the iPAQ 5000 series, is on track for this holiday season along with the lower end 2200 series. The FCC had to approve the 5000 line because of the bluetooth and WiFi radios. I've seen this reported a few places and they all say "at least 64MB of RAM." Could we be seeing 96 or 128MB iPAQs soon? Thanks to everyone that sent these links in. Because of the time warp that is also affecting our email today, I don't have a clue who was first. :wink:<br /><br />At least one model will have bluetooth <b><i>and</i></b> WiFi integrated, 400MHz X-Scale processor and the IR remote control software introduced in the 3900 line this past spring. No specifics on pricing were given.<br /><br /><b>Update!</b> We've just received some images on this. Nothing earthshattering except for the shot of the back. This has a removable battery. Thanks to Jason G. for providing these.<br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2002/20021010-ipaq5400.jpg" />

[Rob Alexander]

We've been talking a lot about how the Dell, Vewsonic, etc. devices will force HP's prices down, but the things you're talking about here will be as much or more of that response as will lower prices.

Sure, if you want 32-64 MB of RAM and no wireless options, you'll now be down in the $300 range, but HP will bet on this model having, say, 128MB of RAM, BT, 802.11b, biosecurity, etc. as appealing to the higher end. They'll bet the higher end will still pay $500+ for those extra features, and I think they'll be right. As long as they have something like the 2200 to compete in the low end, they'll hold their own at both ends of the market.

[wizardmaster2k]

good point of view. i use to own a compaq ipaq 3635, it was nice but i got an unmatchable offer for it so i sold it. i now use a toshiba e310. the weight totaly throws me off because of the weight of the old ipaq. i miss some of the features of my old devise, but i am getting use to it. ipaq is always gonna be a contender in the ppc market, go hp!

[st63z]

Will the 5400 retain existing sleeve compatibility?

Oh, and it's PPC 2002, right?

[Dave Conger]

Has anyone located this document on the FCC website? Or is all we have this CNet article which doesn't say much.

[wrightca]

I don't mind around $500 or a little over. But some of the iPaqs were priced at $750. Nah, I can pass on that. Even if they do have WiFi, BT, 128MB, Backscratcher, and a motorized toothbrush built in.

[kagayaki1]

I have located all the documents and submitted them to the thoughts team.

You can find them here (https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/oet/forms/reports/Search_Form.hts?mode=Edit&form=Exhibits&application_id=582500&fcc_id=BEJPDA-PE2030A).

[normaldude]

In the future, I hope that manufacturers allow consumers to "custom order" their Pocket PCs.. like how you can build your own Dell laptop. There are some integrated features that I want (Bluetooth), and some I don't care for (802.11b). And some people might more RAM, and some might not need as much.

[Dave Conger]

It is quite a bit easier to build a PC then a Pocket PC because of the simple expansion systems. In a way that is what a CF or SD card slot is for...you to customize your device. I hope the HP will release many products at once with different specs so users will have a choice and will almost be able to buy a "custom" device.

...PPC Tech's are always there for your RAM upgrades!!

[Paul P]

I have located all the documents and submitted them to the thoughts team.

You can find them here (https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/oet/forms/reports/Search_Form.hts?mode=Edit&form=Exhibits&application_id=582500&fcc_id=BEJPDA-PE2030A).

Thanks for the link...great new pictures. iPaq looks really good from the angle shown. Also, I completely forgot about the external battery.

[dma1965]

If they do not price their current models competititively with Dell's future offerings NOW, they will be sunk no matter what the features are. I mean, c'mon, $750 for an iPaq 3970. WHAT ARE THEY DOING ? SNIFFING GLUE ? :?

I know the new models are supposed to be priced right, but how about getting the ball rolling by dropping the price on the old models ? Would'nt that give them a little bit of a jump on the holiday season ? If someone pays, lets say, $350 for a 3970 today would that not deter them from spending $199 for a Dell Pocket PC in a month ? Would'nt that, at the very least, let them get a hold of a customer base that would not bother looking at a newer and cheaper device, just because they are no longer in the market, at least for the short term ? In technology, the short term is the defato buying profile. It is the difference between making a sale and losing one. It does not take a marketing genius to figure this one out. :idea:

[EricMCarson]

Is it just me or do the FCC photos on the back of the unit appear to show a place for a GSM/GPRS SIM card as well?

[dma1965]

Is it just me or do the FCC photos on the back of the unit appear to show a place for a GSM/GPRS SIM card as well?

The FCC photo DEFINITELY shows a place for a SIM card. No question about it. This could be a sweet device. It just better be cheap, and I hope I don't have to hold my ankles for a service provider to get it at a good price, and IT BETTER BETTER NOT BE SIM LOCKED. :x

[Dave Conger]

The following specs are listed on the manual included in the FCC report for the 5400 series:

Intel XScale 400MHz processor
64mb of RAM (or greater)
32mb of ROM (or greater)
SDIO SD slot
Transflective TFT 16-bit color screen (.24 dot pitch)
Speaker
3.5mm headphone/microphone jack (on bottom)
IrDA (Universal Remote Support)
Bluetooth (1.6dBm, some models)
WLAN (16dBm)
Figerprint scanner
Removable Lithium battery
5.23" (5.43" with antenna) x 3.30" x 0.63"
7.26 oz

[TypeMRT]

I have located all the documents and submitted them to the thoughts team.

How'd you find it? :?:

[Paul P]

If they do not price their current models competititively with Dell's future offerings NOW, they will be sunk no matter what the features are. I mean, c'mon, $750 for an iPaq 3970. WHAT ARE THEY DOING ? SNIFFING GLUE ? :?

I know the new models are supposed to be priced right, but how about getting the ball rolling by dropping the price on the old models ? Would'nt that give them a little bit of a jump on the holiday season ? If someone pays, lets say, $350 for a 3970 today would that not deter them from spending $199 for a Dell Pocket PC in a month ? Would'nt that, at the very least, let them get a hold of a customer base that would not bother looking at a newer and cheaper device, just because they are no longer in the market, at least for the short term ? In technology, the short term is the defato buying profile. It is the difference between making a sale and losing one. It does not take a marketing genius to figure this one out. :idea:

I can't imagine Dell offering a PocketPC superior to that of current iPaq for $199 (despite the added functionality). HP/Compaq have a stronger brand name recognition and the premium they are charging reflects in the quality of the 3900 series. For those looking for a cheaper PocketPC, they will probably find the lower end models from Dell or Toshiba perfectly suitable for them. For higher end devices, quality will still carry a premium.

BTW, I don't believe the $750 price still stands, unless you are purchasing directly from HPShopping.com (even so, they were offering the unit for about $620 plus accessories after a discount and a rebate). And now, finding the unit for about $650 (before $50 dollar rebate) isn't that hard. With what the iPaq offers, at least from my experience of owning all of the previous iPaqs and an e740, I think the price is quite reasonable.

[dma1965]

If they do not price their current models competititively with Dell's future offerings NOW, they will be sunk no matter what the features are. I mean, c'mon, $750 for an iPaq 3970. WHAT ARE THEY DOING ? SNIFFING GLUE ? :?

I know the new models are supposed to be priced right, but how about getting the ball rolling by dropping the price on the old models ? Would'nt that give them a little bit of a jump on the holiday season ? If someone pays, lets say, $350 for a 3970 today would that not deter them from spending $199 for a Dell Pocket PC in a month ? Would'nt that, at the very least, let them get a hold of a customer base that would not bother looking at a newer and cheaper device, just because they are no longer in the market, at least for the short term ? In technology, the short term is the defato buying profile. It is the difference between making a sale and losing one. It does not take a marketing genius to figure this one out. :idea:

I can't imagine Dell offering a PocketPC superior to that of current iPaq for $199 (despite the added functionality). HP/Compaq have a stronger brand name recognition and the premium they are charging reflects in the quality of the 3900 series. For those looking for a cheaper PocketPC, they will probably find the lower end models from Dell or Toshiba perfectly suitable for them. For higher end devices, quality will still carry a premium.

BTW, I don't believe the $750 price still stands, unless you are purchasing directly from HPShopping.com (even so, they were offering the unit for about $620 plus accessories after a discount and a rebate). And now, finding the unit for about $650 (before $50 dollar rebate) isn't that hard. With what the iPaq offers, at least from my experience of owning all of the previous iPaqs and an e740, I think the price is quite reasonable.

$650 is NOT reasonable when a $199 device, which may very well be as good as if not better than the iPaqs (believe me, I question the quality, since my CarePaq has now replaced my 3870 5 TIMES) is on the horizon. We have no idea what the quality of the Dell will be like, and they may venture into high end models, but I don't think they will be anywhere near $650. Bottom line is that HP/Compaq has to capture the market now. If they take a slight dive in profits now they may be able to salvage a market that they will DEFINITELY lose to Dell if they do not act quickly. Consumers are a fickle bunch. I love my iPaq, despite all of its shortcomings, but money talks. :!:

[normaldude]

5.23" (5.43" with antenna) x 3.30" x 0.63"
7.26 oz

Ugh. It's a brick.

[Paul P]

$650 is NOT reasonable when a $199 device, which may very well be as good as if not better than the iPaqs (believe me, I question the quality, since my CarePaq has now replaced my 3870 5 TIMES) is on the horizon. We have no idea what the quality of the Dell will be like, and they may venture into high end models, but I don't think they will be anywhere near $650.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Dell will not even be manufacturing their PocketPCs. The only native aspect about their PocketPCs will be their name on it. That alone makes me question their product. I don't believe I am putting down Dell's offering before it is ever offered either, but common sense tells me that a $200 dollar PocketPC is nothing more than a $200 PocketPC.

(Also, I was mainly referencing the 3900 line, as per our discussion. Likewise I have my qualms with the 3800 series :) )

Bottom line is that HP/Compaq has to capture the market now. If they take a slight dive in profits now they may be able to salvage a market that they will DEFINITELY lose to Dell if they do not act quickly. Consumers are a fickle bunch. I love my iPaq, despite all of its shortcomings, but money talks. :!:

Isn't that what Toshiba is doing right now? The price of e740s dropped significantly. Whether it was due to unsatisfactory sales or their strategy to capture share is unclear (maybe both). A slight dive in profits in this market environment is not tolerated all that well by the investors. Not many companies can afford to employ that costly strategy, even though it 'may' pay off in the long-run. It also leaves the company with greater share, but with less money to invest in future models.

[Dave Conger]

Ugh. It's a brick.

Mmmm, it is just about the same size as a 3900....which I don't consider to be a brick really....but brickness is relative.

[Paul P]

btw, has this been posted? sorry if I am double posting.

http://www.mobigeeks.net/photo200210/clemente.jpg

source: http://www.mobigeeks.net

[ZATZAi]

Yuck! :? Uuuuugly...

Sorry, but I can't buy that Dell based on asthetics alone, of course, the 5000 series pictures aren't all that attractive either, especially conpared to the 3800-3900 series, atleast in my opinion; I didn't like the 3600s either.

In any case, if the 5400 actually has a finger print scanner, I would buy it, even for the inflated $650-$750, though, I might want to wait till the care paq on my 3870 runs out. Biometrix is something I've been wanted, as I don't like the hassle of passwords for routine things, but like the security none the less.

[kagayaki1]

I have located all the documents and submitted them to the thoughts team.

How'd you find it? :?:

These were in the link that I submitted on the previous page. You can click the word "here" to get to the FCC page.

As for the actual FCC lookup, I was first introduced to it when Ed (I think) posted about the FCC stuff for the XDA. Since then, I keep an eye on it. I found info on the 3870 before it came out, and the Thoughts team posted about the MS Bluetooth keyboard and mouse when it came out.

If it operates on a wireless frequency, you can bet you'll find it.

I've had the best success with using manufacturer and / or date ranges to find the products. This one was hard to find, since you had to search for "LG Electronics," who apparently made the wireless parts. It was easier to do by dates.

Keep your eyes glued to this page (https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/oet/forms/reports/Search_Form.hts?form=Generic_Search) for all your search needs.

Finding the manuals is my favorite part!!! It usually confirms and denies rumors better than anything else.

[normaldude]

Mmmm, it is just about the same size as a 3900....which I don't consider to be a brick really....but brickness is relative.

I consider my Toshiba e310 to be slightly bulky, and the Palm m500 to be about the right size.

Remember: these are supposed to be POCKET PCs, not Briefcase PCs or Belt Clip PCs. I carry mine in my front jeans pockets all the time along with my keys, wallet, pen, coins, cellphone, etc. So absolute smallest size and lightest weight is important. In that regard, the Palm m500 is about the right size for daily/constant jeans pocket portability. I think the ViewSonic V35 also sounds promising (4.2oz).

Of course, I also think PPCs should come with flip covers but that's a whole other rant.

[Dave Conger]

Remember: these are supposed to be POCKET PCs, not Briefcase PCs or Belt Clip PCs....

Thanks I remember....And I carry my iPAQ in my pocket...fits just fine.

[Dave Conger]

Finding the manuals is my favorite part!!! It usually confirms and denies rumors better than anything else.

Though in this case the manual only confirms minimum specs for the series. There still could be models with more memory. Though I do agree, the manuals tend have the most information.

[kagayaki1]

Remember: these are supposed to be POCKET PCs, not Briefcase PCs or Belt Clip PCs....

Thanks I remember....And I carry my iPAQ in my pocket...fits just fine.

Fine fits great in my back pocket, with my SS2 + cover on it...it also depends on how big the pockets in your pants are...

[Dave Conger]

Fine fits great in my back pocket, with my SS2 + cover on it...it also depends on how big the pockets in your pants are...

I don't know, less then 3/4 of an inch just doesn't seem all that thick. It always seems to fit fine in my front pocket. I think it is more the width of the product that varies this then the thickness since few devices exceed the thickness of an iPAQ or Jornada. The iPAQ's sleek design makes it fit better in my pocket then say a Toshiba e550G. (If you or anyone wants to continue a size discussion PM or email me...or run into me on campus...)

Anyways, back to the 5400....these specs of the base model just don't get me that exceited. I hope the price is right on this device. I would assume from the manual the finger print scanner will be on all 5400's (since it doesn't say optional). That would be one of the things that actually does get me excited about this. It could really change how we protect our data in our Pocket PC's, especially if it appears in a wide range of iPAQ products.

[werty]

Is it just me or do the FCC photos on the back of the unit appear to show a place for a GSM/GPRS SIM card as well?

Sim cards can be used to gain access also to WLAN networks.
Nokia C111 WLAN card (http://www.nokia.com/phones/productsupport/wlan/c110_c111/index.html)

[normaldude]

Fine fits great in my back pocket, with my SS2 + cover on it...it also depends on how big the pockets in your pants are...

Sure, and I can fit a brick in my pocket if I really wanted to. But I would be surprised if you carry your Ipaq in your pocket 100% of the time you leave your home. Do you really sit down on your Ipaq for hours at a time? Most likely you take it out.

Try this test:
1) Put on a pair of jeans, and go to a CompUSA or wherever they have sample PDAs.
2) In one of your front jeans pockets, place an Ipaq along with another item (cellphone, wallet, whatever), then sit down.
3) Do the same with a Palm m500 instead of the Ipaq.

If you don't notice a big difference in comfort, you are either numb or insane or just in denial. Not to mention the fact that the Palm m500 has a flip cover to protect the PDA from objects like keys, coins, pens, from jabbing into the screen.

For me, in order for a PDA to be useful, I need to have it with me 100% of the time (like my keys, wallet, watch), and I shouldn't even notice it there (ie have to take it out of the pocket when I sit down).

I mean the Palm m500 is 5.58 cubic inches, while this new Ipaq is 10.87 cubic inches. That's nearly twice the size.

Palm m500: 4.5"x3.1"x0.4" = 5.58 cubic inches
Ipaq 5400: 5.23"x3.3"x0.63" = 10.87 cubic inches

Carrying an Ipaq 5400 would be like carrying two PDAs every day. Completely unnecessary bulk. So for me, an Ipaq brick is worthless. My Toshiba e310 is passable for now, but something smaller like the ViewSonic V35 might be better in the future. Still needs a flip cover though. Hopefully miked will make one.

[st63z]

I carry mine in my front jeans pockets all the time along with my keys, wallet, pen, coins, cellphone, etc.

My gawd man, what kind of JEANS do you wear?!? 8O

Trying to imagine stuffing my huuge wallet (remember George's wallet in Seinfeld?), pens/pencils, cellphone, iPAQ, compact digicam, headphones, BT headset, and my big ol' keyring (with Cruzer, alarm fob, LED flashlight, 6+ keys -- had to move swiss army knife, laser pointer, various USB dongles, and other stuff to a second keyring).. all in one of my front jeans pockets. And how about when I have to bring my portable HDD too (Archos MiniHD or Jukebox Multimedia, or Addonics Pocket ExDrive), huh? Ugh, the crunching pain just thinking it...

There's like (in order of size) my jeans, regular twill/dress pants, Docker Mobile Pants, then my huge cargo pants. The less space, the more you have to prioritize.

[Ed Hansberry]

I've updated the front page post with a shot of the back that shows the removable battery.

[don dre]

All this comparing of the new 5400 to a $200 Dell is ridiculous. At least have the sense to compare it to the $300. The $200 will run with the likes of the maestro, and e310. Think of it this way, if you are new to the market and you are interested in both BT and WiFi you will do just as well dropping $700 on one device as $300 + $150 (cf wifi) and $150BT+64mb Cf Card to make the built in storage equal 128mb. On top of that you still don;t have a fingerprint scanner. I have had two ipaq's and have had no quality issues. I'm not saying that I don;t think HP should lower its prices but we shoudl be reasonable about this discussion. Plus, the screen is smaller on the Dell (.3" is a big difference at this size). If you are thinking of buying the $200 Dell then you aren;t even in the same market as the 5400 and if you want it to be the same size as a Palm 500 then buy an e310 but you aren't getting all of those features in some device that's going to fit in tight ass jeans. wear baggier clothes, you know, relaxed fit. I for one am interested though I will skip this generation since i just bought a 3975 from hp for $625 and a case that I gave to a girl because it's clearly designed for people who had dayrunners.

[gmelfissg]

Hi Dondre,

Do your math correctly:

dell ppc: 300$, cf: 20$, bt: 115$, wifi: 65$ = 500$ which is a whole lot less than 700$ for the ipaq.

**EDITED BY MODERATOR FOR NICENESS***

[PJE]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Dell will not even be manufacturing their PocketPCs. The only native aspect about their PocketPCs will be their name on it. That alone makes me question their product. I don't believe I am putting down Dell's offering before it is ever offered either, but common sense tells me that a $200 dollar PocketPC is nothing more than a $200 PocketPC.

Compaq/HP don't make their own devices either... HTC, if I'm not mistaken, makes them. This is why the T-Mobile/XDA/Siemens device looks so similar - it was HTC's proposal for a iPaq with integrated mobile.

I'd be interested in the $299 device to replace my 3650, as a stop gap until a VGA (or better) resolution device comes out...

PJE

[daveshih]

$650 is NOT reasonable when a $199 device, which may very well be as good as if not better than the iPaqs (believe me, I question the quality, since my CarePaq has now replaced my 3870 5 TIMES) is on the horizon. We have no idea what the quality of the Dell will be like, and they may venture into high end models, but I don't think they will be anywhere near $650.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Dell will not even be manufacturing their PocketPCs. The only native aspect about their PocketPCs will be their name on it. That alone makes me question their product. I don't believe I am putting down Dell's offering before it is ever offered either, but common sense tells me that a $200 dollar PocketPC is nothing more than a $200 PocketPC.

(Also, I was mainly referencing the 3900 line, as per our discussion. Likewise I have my qualms with the 3800 series :) )

Bottom line is that HP/Compaq has to capture the market now. If they take a slight dive in profits now they may be able to salvage a market that they will DEFINITELY lose to Dell if they do not act quickly. Consumers are a fickle bunch. I love my iPaq, despite all of its shortcomings, but money talks. :!:

Isn't that what Toshiba is doing right now? The price of e740s dropped significantly. Whether it was due to unsatisfactory sales or their strategy to capture share is unclear (maybe both). A slight dive in profits in this market environment is not tolerated all that well by the investors. Not many companies can afford to employ that costly strategy, even though it 'may' pay off in the long-run. It also leaves the company with greater share, but with less money to invest in future models.

Correct me if I'm wrong, too, but nobody builds their own PPC's, except for native Asian brands like Asus/Acer, etc. Your ipaq, Toshiba, Jornada, Casio, whatever, were all built by somebody else. So if that makes you "question their products" then there will be much "questioning" going around. Besides, the OEM (its name escapes me for now) who took the order from Dell did so with much gnashing of their teeth, as they are not making anything (if any ) right now, hoping to obtain economy of scale and falling component prices in the future. So this $200 ppc is just as good as any other ppc with the same spec.

Dave

[normaldude]

I carry mine in my front jeans pockets all the time along with my keys, wallet, pen, coins, cellphone, etc.

My gawd man, what kind of JEANS do you wear?!? 8O

Trying to imagine stuffing my huuge wallet (remember George's wallet in Seinfeld?), pens/pencils, cellphone, iPAQ, compact digicam, headphones, BT headset, and my big ol' keyring (with Cruzer, alarm fob, LED flashlight, 6+ keys -- had to move swiss army knife, laser pointer, various USB dongles, and other stuff to a second keyring).. all in one of my front jeans pockets.

No, I put them in two front pockets..

Front left: small cellphone & wallet (side by side).
Front right: leather key case & Toshiba e310 w/flip cover (one on top of the other).

To get rid of the need for a separate ballpoint pen, I bought a tiny wallet pen:
http://store.yahoo.com/styluscentralcom/walletpen.html

I use a leather key case to prevent my keys from scratching my PDA, cellphone, etc. For people who carry their PDA in their pocket, I highly recommend getting a leather key case. Leather key case looks like this:
http://www.rolfs.net/blacbraskeyc.html

And I got the clear flip cover from ParallelDesign. Modified it for my Toshiba e310. Info here:
http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61530

I got rid of my flashlight since I can use my PDA as a flashlight in emergencies (Open PQView/Pocket Quick View to a blank white screen).

I got rid of my swiss army knife since it kept getting confiscated at nightclubs anyway. Also, after 9/11, I didn't want to get hassled at the airport for a small knife. If I need a metal object to open a plastic package, I'll use my keys or my wallet pen.

I currently don't walk around with a digital camera. I'm hoping that a cellphone or PDA with integrated digital camera solves that need in the future.

I reduced the bulk of my wallet by getting rid of anything I didn't need. For example, I took out my Blockbuster video card and Frequent flier cards since I have those account #s on my PDA, and that's good enough at the Blockbuster/airline counter as long as I also have my drivers license.

I use my back pockets for extra coins, receipts, etc. I don't put anything valuable (wallet, pda) in my back pockets because of pickpockets. Also, I used to put my wallet in the back, and I noticed it would wear holes in the back pocket. Moving it to the front solved that problem.

With my current setup, I can walk around and sit down without crunching stuff. But I'd still prefer a slightly smaller PDA. Any additional pocket space is a good thing.

[klinux]

Correct me if I'm wrong, too, but nobody builds their own PPC's, except for native Asian brands like Asus/Acer, etc. Your ipaq, Toshiba, Jornada, Casio, whatever, were all built by somebody else.

Dave

Toshiba and Casio - also native Asian brands - make their own as well.

[tw]

Correct me if I'm wrong, too, but nobody builds their own PPC's, except for native Asian brands like Asus/Acer, etc. Your ipaq, Toshiba, Jornada, Casio, whatever, were all built by somebody else.

Dave

Toshiba and Casio - also native Asian brands - make their own as well.
I'm not sure about Casio but Toshiba does not make their own. e550, e550X, e570, e550G are all made by HTC. e310, e330 and e740 are made by Compal (http://www.compal.com).

Native Asian brand is the wrong term anyway since this would include Japanese brands like Toshiba and Fujitsu. But only very few Taiwanese companies make their own PPCs like Asus and FIC. BTW, Acer doesn't build their own PPCs either. The Acer PPCs are made by Compal. This is why they look so similar to the Toshiba e310/e330/e740 line.

[daveshih]

Correct me if I'm wrong, too, but nobody builds their own PPC's, except for native Asian brands like Asus/Acer, etc. Your ipaq, Toshiba, Jornada, Casio, whatever, were all built by somebody else.

Dave

Toshiba and Casio - also native Asian brands - make their own as well.

Nah, both of them have their ppc's built by OEM's in southeast Asia, such as Taiwan.

&lt;Rumor mode>
It was speculated that the reason Casio withdrew from the North American ppc market because there were problems between Casio and its ppc OEM's.
&lt;/Rumor mode>

Dave

[daveshih]

Correct me if I'm wrong, too, but nobody builds their own PPC's, except for native Asian brands like Asus/Acer, etc. Your ipaq, Toshiba, Jornada, Casio, whatever, were all built by somebody else.

Dave

Toshiba and Casio - also native Asian brands - make their own as well.
I'm not sure about Casio but Toshiba does not make their own. e550, e550X, e570, e550G are all made by HTC. e310, e330 and e740 are made by Compal (http://www.compal.com).

Native Asian brand is the wrong term anyway since this would include Japanese brands like Toshiba and Fujitsu. But only very few Taiwanese companies make their own PPCs like Asus and FIC. BTW, Acer doesn't build their own PPCs either. The Acer PPCs are made by Compal. This is why they look so similar to the Toshiba e310/e330/e740 line.

Yeah, my bag. :oops: What I meant were those Taiwanese companies like Asus and FIC.

Dave

[Shaun Stuart]

The user manual states that the bluetooth model supports the use of headsets - is this possible on the 3970 or is it another new feature ?

[Dave Conger]

The user manual states that the bluetooth model supports the use of headsets - is this possible on the 3970 or is it another new feature ?

It's a new feature on the 5400....different kind of connection I believe.

[Ed Hansberry]

My understanding was Casio builds all of their MIPS devices but farmed the ARM E-200 out. That is why the quality of the 200 wasn't as good as the BE-300, EM-50x or E-1x5. Since they don't do ARM and have a financial stake in MIPS chips, they pulled out. :(

[st63z]

My gawd man, what kind of JEANS do you wear?!? 8O

Trying to imagine stuffing my huuge wallet (remember George's wallet in Seinfeld?), pens/pencils, cellphone, iPAQ, compact digicam, headphones, BT headset, and my big ol' keyring (with Cruzer, alarm fob, LED flashlight, 6+ keys -- had to move swiss army knife, laser pointer, various USB dongles, and other stuff to a second keyring).. all in one of my front jeans pockets.

No, I put them in two front pockets..

Front left: small cellphone & wallet (side by side).
Front right: leather key case & Toshiba e310 w/flip cover (one on top of the other).

To get rid of the need for a separate ballpoint pen, I bought a tiny wallet pen:
http://store.yahoo.com/styluscentralcom/walletpen.html

I use a leather key case to prevent my keys from scratching my PDA, cellphone, etc. For people who carry their PDA in their pocket, I highly recommend getting a leather key case. Leather key case looks like this:
http://www.rolfs.net/blacbraskeyc.html

And I got the clear flip cover from ParallelDesign. Modified it for my Toshiba e310. Info here:
http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61530

I got rid of my flashlight since I can use my PDA as a flashlight in emergencies (Open PQView/Pocket Quick View to a blank white screen).

I got rid of my swiss army knife since it kept getting confiscated at nightclubs anyway. Also, after 9/11, I didn't want to get hassled at the airport for a small knife. If I need a metal object to open a plastic package, I'll use my keys or my wallet pen.

I currently don't walk around with a digital camera. I'm hoping that a cellphone or PDA with integrated digital camera solves that need in the future.

I reduced the bulk of my wallet by getting rid of anything I didn't need. For example, I took out my Blockbuster video card and Frequent flier cards since I have those account #s on my PDA, and that's good enough at the Blockbuster/airline counter as long as I also have my drivers license.

I use my back pockets for extra coins, receipts, etc. I don't put anything valuable (wallet, pda) in my back pockets because of pickpockets. Also, I used to put my wallet in the back, and I noticed it would wear holes in the back pocket. Moving it to the front solved that problem.

With my current setup, I can walk around and sit down without crunching stuff. But I'd still prefer a slightly smaller PDA. Any additional pocket space is a good thing.

Good setup :)

I use up to four separate 4-in-1 stylus/pens (loaded with different things). I find the Minolta Dimage X much slimmer to carry than my old Canon Elph (if you're buying, wait for new Dimage Xi). Had carried my T68i cellphone on the Ericsson ICT-13 slim belt-clip, but switched to Krusell fully covered case on a swiveling belt clip.

You can find high-performance LED lights at http://botachtactical.com/micolights.html . CompUSA also sells one. Bought a lot, currently carrying the classic Photon micro-lights. But I just ordered Sharper Image's combo LED light/swiveling keyring since I was also using their original swiveling key ring separately...

Ya know, I've just been way too lazy to finish putting all my card info into the PDA, plus all those dang receipts seem to always accumulate in the wallet too fast :)

And I wasn't joking about "George's wallet". Wearing jeans, no pickpocket will EVER pick my wallet, I don't care which pocket (unless I'm unconscious). Takes a lot of grunting strain just for ME to wriggle it out at the cashier (OK, too much information?).

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Will the 5400 retain existing sleeve compatibility?

Oh, and it's PPC 2002, right?

Geez... Can you imagine if it weren't sleeve compatible?

I'd love to see how they would justify sticking with the same case design (make no mistake, this is the ugliest looking iPaq yet) w/ no CF capabilities and NOT making it sleeve-compatible!

[Icemarx]

I don't know about you guys, but I think aren't we all forgetting
that this new toy should have phone features.

And I think I can live with that size and a reasonably higher price
for PDA/Phone with batteries that can be replaced (reason I didn't
buy the XDA), just wished they included a camera like the
Sony/Ericsson P800.


Icemarx
-----------------------------
Don't like Koreans since the World Cup incident,
but gotta admit they did well my Presario 1700.

[Paul P]

Correct me if I'm wrong, too, but nobody builds their own PPC's, except for native Asian brands like Asus/Acer, etc. Your ipaq, Toshiba, Jornada, Casio, whatever, were all built by somebody else. So if that makes you "question their products" then there will be much "questioning" going around.

That is true, Compaq outsources manufacturing as well, but how do you think Dell was able to achieve such a low price? Well, they shopped around to find the absolute cheapest manufacturer. Even if Compaq charges too high a premium, the cost of current iPaqs still won't approach the $200 dollar level.

Besides, the OEM (its name escapes me for now) who took the order from Dell did so with much gnashing of their teeth, as they are not making anything (if any ) right now, hoping to obtain economy of scale and falling component prices in the future. So this $200 ppc is just as good as any other ppc with the same spec.


Define 'just as good.' Just as good as a Kia sport replacing an Audi? Sure, they will both get you to your destination, but come on, let's be realistic. Quality of a PocketPC is defined in many ways, including the involvement (or the lack of in Dell's case I am sure) of the manufacturer in the production and design of the product. Economy of scales involves making sacrifices to quality control. How much say lea way does Dell really has in creating a high quality PocketPC when they came to the manufacturer with a $199 dollar target?

[lst337]

Somebody had asked about the FCC info. Following is the website link. The FCC notes on the new HP wireless iPaq include internal and external photos, test data, and even the user manual:

https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/oet/forms/reports/Search_Form.hts?mode=Edit&form=Exhibits&application_id=746611&fcc_id=BEJPDA-PE2030A

It also says it will be manufactured by LG (Lucky Goldstar) Electronics.

~ Lee

[daveshih]

Correct me if I'm wrong, too, but nobody builds their own PPC's, except for native Asian brands like Asus/Acer, etc. Your ipaq, Toshiba, Jornada, Casio, whatever, were all built by somebody else. So if that makes you "question their products" then there will be much "questioning" going around.

That is true, Compaq outsources manufacturing as well, but how do you think Dell was able to achieve such a low price? Well, they shopped around to find the absolute cheapest manufacturer. Even if Compaq charges too high a premium, the cost of current iPaqs still won't approach the $200 dollar level.

Well, they did not "shop" around. They did their calculation and publish a price range. All those who are willing can take the bid. Hardly "shop around". Before a OEM can take that bid, it must evaluate whether they can achieve that price.
Many other OEM's in Taiwan consider its move suicidal, meaning that this particular OEM is banking on the Dell ppc being a sure success, because only then will they be able to make profit. Why? Because Dell (and the OEM itself) have quality standard they have to achieve, and cutting corners just won't cut it in this case.

Besides, the OEM (its name escapes me for now) who took the order from Dell did so with much gnashing of their teeth, as they are not making anything (if any ) right now, hoping to obtain economy of scale and falling component prices in the future. So this $200 ppc is just as good as any other ppc with the same spec.


Define 'just as good.' Just as good as a Kia sport replacing an Audi? Sure, they will both get you to your destination, but come on, let's be realistic. Quality of a PocketPC is defined in many ways, including the involvement (or the lack of in Dell's case I am sure) of the manufacturer in the production and design of the product. Economy of scales involves making sacrifices to quality control. How much say lea way does Dell really has in creating a high quality PocketPC when they came to the manufacturer with a $199 dollar target?

"Just as good" means that this particular line of ppc's will be just as good as all the other ppc's manufactured by OEM's in Taiwan. Sure, different OEM's have different quality standards, but I'm pretty sure that Dell is no dumb ass, picking a crappy OEM to produce their first forray into ppc.
I'm from Taiwan, and I have relatives working in the chip fab labs automation business in the states. He has had many chances working with those OEM's engineers in Taiwan, and had nothing but respect for their expertices. Otherwise how do these brands, Asus, Tyan, Abit, MST, Soyo, FIC, LiteOn, etc. make a name for themselves?? Of course there are lapses here and there, but who doesn't? Many (if not most) of the ppc's on the market are built by OEM's in Taiwan, and people are happy with them (including you, I'm sure), so why pick this one and slam it because of price alone?
I understand that it's weird defending on a product that hasn't even ship yet, but.... &lt;sigh> Maybe I'm a little bit overboard. Let's wait until this ppc actually ships and determine whether it's a good product or not. Let's not "try" to determine it by price alone.

Dave

[don dre]

Hi Dondre,

Do your math correctly:

dell ppc: 300$, cf: 20$, bt: 115$, wifi: 65$ = 500$ which is a whole lot less than 700$ for the ipaq.

**EDITED BY MODERATOR FOR NICENESS*** from gmelfissg if that's your real name.
Listen buddy, there's no need to have a hissy fit. I would like you to post a link where I can find $65 cf wifi (not linksys, I'm not crazy) but for a good one like the socket. In addition to this, you cannot fit wifi, BT, and storage in a device at once. If wifi and BT are built-in, then you can add storage without switching. Furthermore, the ipaq adds Nevo (nice if it works for you...especially the macros) and the finger print scanners. I'm not saying everyone should buy an ipaq but there are reasons why the Dell isn't right for everyone and why you might justify spending an extra 2-300 bucks.