So, do you like what you see?

[Jason Dunn]

Bugs and glitches aside, does this feel like it was worth the wait? There's more coming, and I know many of you will be thrilled with what we have in store, but as a first step do you like what you're seeing? Be sure to hit refresh on the home page after you've voted. Man I love that effect!

[brntcrsp]

Nice vote animation. I look forward to the each new surprise!

[fyiguy]

Good layout, much easier to read than the previous layout... :D

[Wuss912]

how does it show up on a mobile device?
i havent checked yet but that decides my vote..

[Chad]

I love the changes. For me, PocketPC thoughts and PocketPCPassion are staples .. sites that I read a few times daily. I have to hand it to you all, the new format is great, easier to read and I think will have a leg up on Dale's site! :wink:

[Wiggin]

Nicely done guys... great new look, easy to jump around... blah blah blah (positive blahs of course :lol: )
My only frustration so far is the font size... it's gotten smaller! Although I can change the text size in IE to help make things more readable, it's not an ideal solution since that is a global change for all IE pages. Just curious...any reason you've make it harder for aging eyes to read? 8O

[miradu]

javascript animation is cute.

I actually liek the text size - i think overall everything is easier to read - I like the cool blue.

rest easy tonight Jason, don't worry bout the world not liking it ;) they wont ;)

now how to get the offensive jsut registered for the contests off of my handle.. - there we go... just needed another post...

[Jason Dunn]

Nicely done guys... great new look, easy to jump around... blah blah blah (positive blahs of course :lol: )
My only frustration so far is the font size... it's gotten smaller! Although I can change the text size in IE to help make things more readable, it's not an ideal solution since that is a global change for all IE pages. Just curious...any reason you've make it harder for aging eyes to read? 8O

Hmm. That wasn't intentional, but 10 pt font is pretty standard on many sites. In fact, we used 10 point on the old site too. Maybe this is 9 point? How can you tell I didn't design the template? :wink: We'll be tweaking the usability over the next few weeks with some surveys, etc. I value your input!

[bdeli]

It is not javascript, but Flash!

Good job Jason and your Italian Designer!

Brian

[Jeff Rutledge]

Nice vote animation. I look forward to the each new surprise!

What vote animation? I think I missed it.

[yawanag]

Was there anything wrong with the old site? :roll: I considered it a Pocket PC news site so the format was fine with me. Outside of the "cool blue" which make it easier on the eyes, looks like you've joined the ranks.

[portus]

As much as I like the colorful and elegantly designed new look, I must say I miss the old look somehow ... The new look, though fancy and great-looking, is a bit congested and are actually reminiscent of some other PDA web site designs. The main content is surrounded by banners and information is scattered around. It looks like a "beautified" version of Dale's pocketPCpassion.com to me... The old look was a cleaner and more focused desgin. I'd like a look that's a "beautified" version of the old.

That said, I still appreciate the efforts Jason put into the redesign of the web site to serve the PPC community. It remains one of the few PPC page that has a well-balanced content among rumors, opinions and product news. Keep up the good work!

[spg]

Nice vote animation. I look forward to the each new surprise!

What vote animation? I think I missed it.
When you vote on the front page, it calculates the votes and animates the results bars. Very nice effect!

[bdeli]

Hmm. That wasn't intentional, but 10 pt font is pretty standard on many sites. In fact, we used 10 point on the old site too. Maybe this is 9 point? How can you tell I didn't design the template? :wink: We'll be tweaking the usability over the next few weeks with some surveys, etc. I value your input!

It is 9 point - i do not mind it - actually can fit more in my 1024x768 laptop screen! :lol:

[Jeff Rutledge]

Nice vote animation. I look forward to the each new surprise!

What vote animation? I think I missed it.
When you vote on the front page, it calculates the votes and animates the results bars. Very nice effect!

Ahhh...thanks. I thought it had something to do with voting in a thread as this thread was a poll.

Thanks!

[DrtyBlvd]

... looks like you've joined the ranks.


...the ranks of the 'damn fine' in my opinion.

rrrrreeeeeefreeesssshhhheeeeeddddddd :D

[ThomasC22]

OK, who thinks they posted this poll just to show off the cool animation? :wink:

[jeremyweisser]

I don't know about anyone else but I love the new site design, I have been a loyal Thoughts reader since the begning but the new design makes the content that much better. Great job, and congrats are in store to Jason and everyone else on the Thoughts team.

[dyei2]

now, don't get me wrong i am a major fan of the new design, and of design in general.. ..but i really liked the old layout because it was simple, and it POPPED up when loaded.. now it takes a couple seconds longer, and being that i access this site a couple times a day, i liked the fast process..

i LOVE THE LOOK but yearn for the simplicity.

although, now it looks more professional, and a better looking page to attract prospective advertisers to help support the site.

my support for this website will always be here.

http://www.l905.net/Untitled-1.gif (http://www.l905.net)

[icatar]

More ads and "stuff" on the front page means less room for why most people come to the site - news and thoughts.

With that said, I like the color scheme and the site is easier on the eyes, but I liked the simplicity of the old site.

Don't worry, it's not like I'll never visit the site! I'll adapt! :D

P.S. And that poll animation is cool, like the first 6 times I refresh the front page, but get's kinda annoying after that!

[Gerard]

Flash, huh? Weird. I just cleared my Casio's cache, refreshed again, and find not a single SWF file there. Is it, like, a PC-only kind of Flash, something a PPC browser isn't even allowed to download? I have the Macromedia players installed on my EG-800, both the plug-in and the standalone player, but I see zilch in the vote-count area of interest besides a couple of GIF progress bars, and like I said, not SWF files around here.
Other than that, very slick. I'm in love with the cool icey blue background. It looks very refreshing, a nice change from the dull grey-tan of the previous version. Or is that just white? Nah, looks blue.
As for PPC formatting and load-time, better on both scores by far. No side-scrolling in the threads I've looked at so far, and it loads about 30% faster over my dialup (my Socket CF typically pulls at 115,200, for some crazy reason, on the Casio and on my notebook PC).
So great going, I definitely like, a lot.

[Hugh Nano]

Nice. A bit busy for my tastes--in some ways I liked the simplicity of the old format better--but still very nice.

One extremely minor annoyance is the inaccuracy of the Top Pocket PC Software feature from Handango. It's Handago's problem, really, but still annoying. I am sure that Battery Pack 2002 is not the top-selling piece of Pocket PC Software! :x Can't Handango do anything about it?

Only other problem I've noticed so far is that for some reason when I loaded the front page in a second window, the left-most column was way too wide!

Keep up the great work, Jason! Pocket PC Thoughts is still the top Pocket PC site in my books, and now has style as well as substance!

UPDATE: When I hit the refresh button, the front page re-loaded properly.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Overall I like it. I'm not so fond of the moving adverts though..... :? Would it be possible to only have static adverts???? Please???? 8)

It does look slightly busy and it will be harder for me to read PPCT unobtusivly at work. :? 8)

The avatar upload does not work for me just now. :cry:

I really like the cool blue look though! Overall the site looks a lot slicker and more professional. A keeper! :D 8) :D 8) :D

[spaceman]

Some serious Netscape 4.7 bugs -- gif files are showing up in all the wrong places, overlapping text and broken links. Totallly unreadable on Netscape.

[heov]

I have one small request that shouldn't make you too mad... could you possible make the quotes in the replies contrast the background... For example you used to have a gray background, and a light gray qoute background, or did you purposely remove that? Though no biggie...

Also, I was wondering if there was a way to display the site in incrememts. For example, is it possible to load all the text, then the images, etc? The way it used to be was that it would load and display everything one by one... now on my browser it loads the title bar up top, then loads the entire thing at once, so it takes a long time (since i'm on dialup)... I was wondering if that is a setting in my browser or if you set it that way or something you have no control over? Can anyone help... I find myself pushing the stop button after about 20 seconds of waiting for it to load, and most of the site has been loaded...

Anyway, aside from my slow load times, it looks pretty cool... though i preferfed your more simple text layout...

-heov

PS. Also it's no biggie, but how come the font doesn't scale in IE anymore when i select "Largest" in the text size. The only time I see it actually larger is in the "Topic Review" below a reply...

[abl00m]

Front page is great! Formatted nicely for either a pda or desktop. My pda was pleasently surprised :)
The forum pages still require some scrolling - but all in all, super improvement - Way to go!

-Aaron

[B]

I really like the new layout, except for the use of pixel measurements for font sizes. I know it is easier to layout pages using pixels and that all the tools such as Macromedia's default to this method of layout, but it still doesn't mean it is right. As a result I will paste my standard rant on the subject here. Luckily with the super small font settings it won't appear to be too long :)

-- Rant On --

I find the text on your website difficult to read due to the small font size. Normally I would just change my browsers font settings, but since you coded your page with explicit pixel sizes in the CSS this doesn't work. Please follow good HTML coding conventions and change your /css/ppcthoughts.css file to use the unit "em" for font sizes.

What's an "em"? One unit of "em" is the size of the lower case "m". To make text smaller than normal use a decimal number. For example, instead of 10px use .75em. The use of "em" units for fonts allows the end user to adjust the font size to their liking. For example, with a Mouse with a Scroll Wheel - a user can simply hold down CTRL and scroll up/down to "zoom" the page. In Internet Explorer this is the shortcut to the View -> Text Size options that you have broken using pixel font sizes.

Do a Google search to learn more about the em and CSS. Don't be lazy, respect your readers, and follow good standard HTML conventions. Thank you,

-- Rant Off --

[EyePAQ]

Like Wow! 8O

[medic119]

Love the new site.
What really interests me is the CMS used. It ties in so nicely with phpBB. Even the little flash voting thing tied in well.
You've got some great designers.

[cgavula]

As a Mac user I have to tell you that your front page doesn't appear correctly in IE 5.2 (Mac OS X). There is a problem with many of your .GIF files. All I see is the red X indicating a load failure and the name of the graphic file that didn't load - like icon_rolleyes.gif.

On my Mac, anyway, the text is WAY too small - like a 9 point type. This often happens when people design exclusively for PC and fail to consider the wider variety of browsers and platforms out there. Maybe it's juwst my browser. Yes, I know that PCs dominate the market, especially among PPC users, but that doesn't mean other users should be excluded or ignored. If that were the case, PPC users would be the ones ignored because the Palm market is bigger!

On a more general note, although I think the look is certainly prettier, I have to say that the old format felt more "content heavy". This format feels more "show" than "go". Half of the width of the page is given up to things other than the new items! But as an earlier poster said - I'll get used to it, even if it means I have to do more scrolling. I just hate that extra wait time for the page to load..... :)

--Chris

[Ed Hansberry]

More ads and "stuff" on the front page means less room for why most people come to the site - news and thoughts.
Nah. Just means a longer front page. :lol:

[KevinK]

I really llike what you;ve done with the place. Nice drapes! ;-) Seriously, the site looks absoultely wonderful, and was worth the wait!!!

-Kevin

[Ed Hansberry]

Some serious Netscape 4.7 bugs -- gif files are showing up in all the wrong places, overlapping text and broken links. Totallly unreadable on Netscape.
SSCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! :wink: :lol:

Seriously, Netscape? Really? I've heard my grandfather talk about using Netscape.

Wonder if it works better on NS 7.

[kwerner]

Is there a lite/wireless/mobile version of the site now? It looks great, but a no frills version is really needed for keeping up with the news on the go.

Also the lite blue image "Welcome to POCKET PC Thoughts" takes up a lot of prime space for news. Couldn't that be worked into the Dark blue top image?

Don't get me wrong though, looks great!

[st63z]

Some serious Netscape 4.7 bugs -- gif files are showing up in all the wrong places, overlapping text and broken links. Totallly unreadable on Netscape.
SSCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! :wink: :lol:

Seriously, Netscape? Really? I've heard my grandfather talk about using Netscape.

Wonder if it works better on NS 7.

He might be using one of those discontinued net appliances with a fixed preloaded browser...

Anyways, I didn't see anything really broken when loading with Netscape 7, Mozilla 1.2, Opera 6 (not to mention IE6), all on Win PCs...

[BrianCooksey]

Seeing the changes reminds that I really appreciate all the effort you guys put into this.

Thanks so much and great work!

[DavidRoss]

I like the colors a lot...but the front page is to busy for me... and that large ad down the left side is really bothersome.

This Site changes to me seems like its also coming with a site philosophy change as well. i see a REAL shift towards advertising in this layout. of course... you need to pay for all the new stuff. so I’m not saying you should not have advertising if your going to keep PocketPCthoughts going in this direction. I would have just liked to have had ONE site with no frills, and all content.

For me this site change means i will come here less. and i don’t say this in an attempted to get you to do anything, like change it back... because in our Civilization there is no back... its forward and up, or die. I’m just saying that it no longer suits my taste. It would appear I’m in the vast minority, according to your poll. So I think you will do fine ;)

--- From the guy who has the dustiest Ipaq Screen, and the T-shirt to prove it.


PS (just noticed) i think that having an “donate” button on the front page when you are also selling advertising is inappropriate. it was alright when it was the only way you could support the site. but it seems tacky now.... TO ME.

[Mr. Anonymous]

Site is very plain on the Mac in Chimera 0.5 (a stripped down version of Mozilla): no graphics or anything except text. Looks good in IE:Mac 5.2 though.

[Jason Dunn]

i LOVE THE LOOK but yearn for the simplicity.

Well, you have lots of ways to access the site now, but if you want simplicity, you can always access the Pocket PC site:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/pocket

You don't have all the fancy features, but if it's simplicity you want, it doesn't get much more simple than that. :-)

[Jason Dunn]

More ads and "stuff" on the front page means less room for why most people come to the site - news and thoughts.

Why do you say that? There's not going to less content on a daily basis - if anything, we'll be able to have MORE content now because we have a far better structure in place for articles. Trust me, this was a very neccessary step in order for the site to "grow up".

[spaceman]

Some serious Netscape 4.7 bugs -- gif files are showing up in all the wrong places, overlapping text and broken links. Totallly unreadable on Netscape.
SSCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! :wink: :lol:

Seriously, Netscape? Really? I've heard my grandfather talk about using Netscape.

Wonder if it works better on NS 7.

Well, Netscape is our Corporate standard. Can't help it. I'm using Netscape 7 at home, Your home page looks fine. The misplaced gif files etc with broken image links is same problem described by the Mac user, cgavulla.

[Jason Dunn]

I have one small request that shouldn't make you too mad... could you possible make the quotes in the replies contrast the background... For example you used to have a gray background, and a light gray qoute background, or did you purposely remove that?

Yeah, we're aware of this - it's on the "fix" list. Thanks!

Also, I was wondering if there was a way to display the site in incrememts. For example, is it possible to load all the text, then the images, etc? The way it used to be was that it would load and display everything one by one...

No, this isn't possible. The old site didn't use a table for the body element, which made it load immediately, but the down side was that we couldn't do ANYTHING interesting with the layout - even something as simple as having a photo on the left and text beside it on the right. That was a big limitation.

Anyway, aside from my slow load times, it looks pretty cool... though i preferfed your more simple text layout...

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/pocket - fast, simple. Problem solved!

Regarding the font size, yes, we'll see if we can make it possible for you to change it - we should allow that.

[Jason Dunn]

As a Mac user I have to tell you that your front page doesn't appear correctly in IE 5.2 (Mac OS X).

Yes, this was mentioned in the previous thread and we're looking into it. Please give us a bit of time to figure it out.

On a more general note, although I think the look is certainly prettier, I have to say that the old format felt more "content heavy". This format feels more "show" than "go".

I find it curious that several people like yourself have made an assumption that because there's less horizontal space for news, somehow we're going to post less and there won't be more vertical space to compensate. Why the lack of faith?

I can only say "Wait and see."

[DavidRoss]

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/pocket is great, ill be replacing my book mark for PocketPCthoughts with it.

All my other comments still stand... but it is GREAT that you give us the option of having the old simple style back.

[Jason Dunn]

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/pocket is great, ill be replacing my book mark for PocketPCthoughts with it.

All my other comments still stand... but it is GREAT that you give us the option of having the old simple style back.

I'm thrilled that we'll be able to provide you with great content while simultaneously allowing you to avoid supporting the site by subjecting you to any evil advertising. :roll: We'll probably be adding some sort of ad to the mobile version eventually, so you may want to start shopping for a new site. :wink:

[Jason Dunn]

Well, Netscape is our Corporate standard. Can't help it.

www.pocketpcthoughts.com/pocket

Give it a go - if Netscape 4.x can't render that...

[DavidRoss]

Its not adds that I object to, its when they take over the layout with Big Red Flashing words. I thought how you handled the adds in the old layout was great. And I thought I also remember you saying how you would not put flashing adds on your site, but my memory may be wrong (not being sarcastic)

[Jason Dunn]

PS (just noticed) i think that having an “donate” button on the front page when you are also selling advertising is inappropriate. it was alright when it was the only way you could support the site. but it seems tacky now.... TO ME.

Well David, I'd encourage you to launch a commercial site in today's market and see how much of a living you can make on ONE banner ad. Online advertising is in the crapper, as anyone with a site will tell you. I'm very fortunate to have the advertisers that I have now, but if I want to keep the site going I have to try a lot of different things. Tacky or not, it's what I have to do, and that's that.

Too bad the free content we provide isn't worth you looking at a few ads! :?

[DavidRoss]

IM sorry for the back and forth... this will be my last message here on this topic, i know this is not a chat room. but you say

"I'd encourage you to launch a commercial site in today's market "

I thought the whole point of this site was that its not Commercial, and that’s why paying Avantgo for there services was so bad, since you made no money, because this was not a commercial site.

And I would argue that the content you provide is not free… you expect us to click on the adds, and we have to look at them. And if I don’t want to… if I want my “Free” Content… then I am criticized for not “supporting” the site. If its free its free, with no strings attached… now you can argue that nothing in this world is free, and im not being very nice for expecting it to be so… im just saying you cant pull out the “free card” whenever someone has an issue with the way you are placing your banner adds

[Jason Dunn]

Its not adds that I object to, its when they take over the layout with Big Red Flashing words. I thought how you handled the adds in the old layout was great. And I thought I also remember you saying how you would not put flashing adds on your site, but my memory may be wrong (not being sarcastic)

No, I'm afraid you're mistaken David. I committed publicly to never using pop up ads, which I won't. But not using "flashing" ads would mean not allowing animated GIFs and Flash ads, which isn't possible. Few, if any, advertisers would sign up (and it's hard enough getting them on board as is). It's also the first day we've launched, and I've never had multiple ads on my site before, so I'm still learning - with the real estate the skyscraper banner ad has, it might be possible to ask for a static GIF. We'll see.

I'm trying very hard (and somewhat failing) to not take your comments personally, but you don't pay a penny for anything on this site - so I question what "right" you have to "object" to what I'm trying to do...

Can you try to see where I'm coming from?

[DavidRoss]

Ekk i lied, one more... i don’t mean to attack you personally... its your site, and i think you do a great job. think of it as a Critique, if i don’t tell you everything i think, and honestly, you cant learn.

Do you really want a bunch of Yes Men?

[Jason Dunn]

Do you really want a bunch of Yes Men?

If that's a "Yes, I'm here to support you and this site, even if it means putting up with a few ads", then yes, that's exactly the kind of people I want.

If I launch a subscriber-based ad-free version, I expect you to be the first to sign up. :D

[Terry]

A bit too much eye candy for me...I must be an old fogey...

[Terry]

Wow Jason, this new site is a lot faster!
Can't wait to try it tomorrow morning on my IPAQ!

[Dave Beauvais]

Well, it took a while, but I've finally reached the end of this thread. :) Each time I clicked to the next page, another one had been added after it. Everyone's been pretty busy posting, it seems!

I love the new site's look overall, but I do have to agree with some other posters in saying that it seems a bit "busy." The front page takes significantly longer to load than did the old one, but with more graphics and a Flash component or two, that's to be expected, I suppose. But, that's something I will live with because the new layout is really great. Whoever did the graphic work did an excellent job.

The PPC version rocks! I love it! Fast-loading, no horizontal scrolling, and easy to read. The forum view on the PPC is much better than before, but still not as easy to navigate as the mobile front page is. I think the biggest cause of this is the banner ad to the right of the Thoughts logo. If that could be moved below the logo for the mobile forum view, that might reduce the amount of horizontal scrolling.

About ads... if you do add an ad to the mobile front page as you mentioned possibly doing at some point in the future, please put it below the logo at the top, not beside it. Even though there was no banner on the PPC with the old layout, the Sonic Mobility logo is what caused the front page to require horizontal scrolling.

Personally, I hope you offer an ad-free "premium" site because I'll be more than happy to pay for it! Great work, guys! Keep it up! I'll look forward to seeing everything you have planned.

--Dave

[danmanmayer]

Does it count if you don't know yet... ask me again after i have been using the new site for a week or so... i will say this it is a big change and is neato looking....

[dcharles18]

I'm sure that you and your staff worked very hard on this, and I am not in any way trying to detract from that work, but I have to say I really liked the old site better. The simplicity of the old site was, in my opinion, it's best feature, and now it is gone. I do appreciate you and your staff trying to innovate and be responsive to the members, but for me, simple was nice.

[avoglio]

[quote=heov]http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/pocket - fast, simple. Problem solved!


I suggest dropping any picture here. They eat up many expensive bytes via GPRS. Ok, I have 2.5 MB free each month and could update to 7.5 but even those eat up quickly.. :wink:

[fulltilt]

Is it me...? I can't clickthru on any of the titles for the news items (ie. the browser doesn't launch a new window) - just gives me nothing....

It worked previously on ppct 2.0 and I haven't changed my browser recently.

[pt]

[quote=heov]http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/pocket - fast, simple. Problem solved!


I suggest dropping any picture here. They eat up many expensive bytes via GPRS. Ok, I have 2.5 MB free each month and could update to 7.5 but even those eat up quickly.. :wink:

you can turn images off. tap the picture icon in the toolbar.

cheers,
pt

[Tierran]

Been lurking here for a while ;) Wow, awesome revamp. I've always liked the info you guys provide and now I think this may turn into one of my favorite sites to look at as well!

[Ravenswing]

Aside from the fact the websites have to have naked women on them to make me "randy baby", I like it.

The handheld version is way better than before, though it'd be nice if you could do something about the way the forum is displayed on a PDA.

[avoglio]

[quote=heov]http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/pocket - fast, simple. Problem solved!


I suggest dropping any picture here. They eat up many expensive bytes via GPRS. Ok, I have 2.5 MB free each month and could update to 7.5 but even those eat up quickly.. :wink:

you can turn images off. tap the picture icon in the toolbar.

cheers,
pt

Sure, but this will also turn of small images like bullets and icons and looks fairly ugly. I just vote for a small image page, and, if you like, a link to a full screen image.

[paqman_lover]

As a devoted reader of this site for the past couple of years i have to say i strongly dislike the frontpage. I read this site for news, i don't want strips full of animated banners on either side distracting my eyes. One of the plusses of this site used to be it was simple to read the news. it's now more difficult to do that and should be fixed.

I'm not saying i dislike the overall site because i like the header and the new colors and the poll posted inside the news story but poketpcthoughts is a news site and when it's hard to read the news it's bad for the long-term health of the website.

[Ed Hansberry]

As a devoted reader of this site for the past couple of years i have to say i strongly dislike the frontpage. I read this site for news, i don't want strips full of animated banners on either side distracting my eyes. One of the plusses of this site used to be it was simple to read the news. it's now more difficult to do that and should be fixed.

I'm not saying i dislike the overall site because i like the header and the new colors and the poll posted inside the news story but poketpcthoughts is a news site and when it's hard to read the news it's bad for the long-term health of the website.

As Jason has said so many times, just set your link to www.pocketpcthoughts.com/pocket. Personally, I like the new look. No one wants ads anywhere, but they are necessary on TV, the radio, magazines and the web. The sticky polls are nice too. Keeps info from getting lost in the background the day a post scrolls off the front page.

[nishka]

While I think the design is great, I will miss the old design... I think if you make any changes it should to widen the text column. It's much too narrow now.

[cgavula]

On a more general note, although I think the look is certainly prettier, I have to say that the old format felt more "content heavy". This format feels more "show" than "go".

I find it curious that several people like yourself have made an assumption that because there's less horizontal space for news, somehow we're going to post less and there won't be more vertical space to compensate. Why the lack of faith?

I can only say "Wait and see."

I made no assumption about actual content. Please read what I actually said - I said that it FEELS that way, not that it in fact WAS that way. The point is that appearances make a difference in perception, even when the content hasn't changed.

[paqman_lover]

If we have to have ads make them pop-ups since Mozilla has a built in pop-up killer that's 100% effective :lol:

I think makeing the room for news wider is a good suggestion.

[Gremlin]

The site looks great IMO, its a pity though that the poll appears to decide whether you've voted or not though based on IP Address, means people behind the same proxy won't all be able to vote. I'm only speculating as that being the cause for it telling me I'd already voted can't think of any other reason really.

[spaceman]

Well, Netscape is our Corporate standard. Can't help it.

www.pocketpcthoughts.com/pocket

Give it a go - if Netscape 4.x can't render that...

Nope. It's the Emoticons that is causing the problems. Instead of the smiley faces, you get broken links. icon_lol.gif icon_cool.gif icon_biggrin.gif

The www.pocketpcthoughts.com/pocket URL has same Emoticon issue.

[puithove]

The site looks great IMO, its a pity though that the poll appears to decide whether you've voted or not though based on IP Address, means people behind the same proxy won't all be able to vote. I'm only speculating as that being the cause for it telling me I'd already voted can't think of any other reason really.


Yea, I just had that same problem. I'm reading this site at work through a proxy. I assume one of my coworkers has already voted for the company...

As for the design, I haven't had a chance yet to go digging through everything but it looks nice!.

[Woodster]

"This enthusiast site is run by people who love using their Pocket PCs.
First and foremost, we're an opinion site, and our views follow our passion for everything that is Pocket PC"

What is the point of this text (and the repeated graphic along with it)? Isn't this obvious? I consider it clutter, and it only gets in the way. If anything put it on the "About" page.

I do like some aspects of the new design (fonts easier to read). I just like the simplicity of the old site. Although the new site is more "stylized", it's much more cluttered and really just too "busy". I guess it's now advertising supported. I guess you can't blame him for wanting to make some money.

I am going with the "mobile page" even for the desktop.
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/pocket/

-Woody

[Ed Hansberry]

"This enthusiast site is run by people who love using their Pocket PCs.
First and foremost, we're an opinion site, and our views follow our passion for everything that is Pocket PC"

What is the point of this text (and the repeated graphic along with it)? Isn't this obvious? I consider it clutter, and it only gets in the way. If anything put it on the "About" page.
If it were obvious, people wouldn't come here and bash us for posting opinions.

I guess anyone can find something to complain about in the new look. :roll:

[paqman_lover]

To everyone that thinks the site is too cluttered feeling (as do i), useing mozilla, have mozilla block images from the ads in the left-bar and it will kill everything in that blue bar below the pay pal donate button and it will make the site very easy to read again and you won't have to give up any of the good new features.

[Ed Hansberry]

To everyone that thinks the site is too cluttered feeling (as do i), useing mozilla, have mozilla block images from the ads in the left-bar and it will kill everything in that blue bar below the pay pal donate button and it will make the site very easy to read again and you won't have to give up any of the good new features.
Does everyone go to this effort to remove banners from CNET, Pocket PC Passion, BrightHand, Yahoo and the other zillion web sites with ads? Or are you just complaining here?

[Fitch]

Just to answer Ed's question, I do go to lengths to remove ads from the other sites, too, yes. Once you turn on the ad-blocker/image-remover, it does work on all sites you visit with zillions of ads.

However, even with my ad-remover off when on pocketpcthoughts.com, I'm still having problems with Mozilla 1.1. I'm unable to see any images that appear in the stories. I don't see the cool blue icon or any of the yellow emoticons, or any images that go along with the story. I can see the the ads, though, but not the Pocket PC Thoughts header. This holds true for both the main site and the "pocket/" site.

These problems were always there from the old site as well, I figured someone had said something and these problems were going to be addressed with the redesign. But I was looking through this topic's posts and only saw a couple people having similar problems, but not the exact same problems.

[paqman_lover]

Just to answer Ed's question, I do go to lengths to remove ads from the other sites, too, yes. Once you turn on the ad-blocker/image-remover, it does work on all sites you visit with zillions of ads.

However, even with my ad-remover off when on pocketpcthoughts.com, I'm still having problems with Mozilla 1.1. I'm unable to see any images that appear in the stories. I don't see the cool blue icon or any of the yellow emoticons, or any images that go along with the story. I can see the the ads, though, but not the Pocket PC Thoughts header. This holds true for both the main site and the "pocket/" site.

These problems were always there from the old site as well, I figured someone had said something and these problems were going to be addressed with the redesign. But I was looking through this topic's posts and only saw a couple people having similar problems, but not the exact same problems.

I've noticed with Mozilla 1.1 if i don't clean the disk cache everyday than it stops showing most pics for some reason.

I like to keep any website i visit as readable as possible, that's why i've downloaded a little app that lets me turn off/on flash whenever i want so i no longer have to see flash ads. mozilla is my primary browser since it has a built in pop-up killer and site image blocker and also tabbed browseing. I also try to frequent places that make my time on the internet easier which was one of the plusses about comeing here.

And i'm not complaining, my opinion was asked for and I'm giving an honest opinion. I love this site which is why i even bothered to post my opinion in the first place.

[tamanaco]

Going blind... Can't change font size 8O

[pt]

Just to answer Ed's question, I do go to lengths to remove ads from the other sites, too, yes. Once you turn on the ad-blocker/image-remover, it does work on all sites you visit with zillions of ads.

wow, so all those sites who exist because of ad revenue you just block them all? you're basically making it harder for them to stay alive. even pay-for content like magazines and cable tv have ads.

that's fine though, you're helping us get closer to a pay-for content on the web and the ads won't be removable soon too.

cheers,
pt

[paqman_lover]

Just to answer Ed's question, I do go to lengths to remove ads from the other sites, too, yes. Once you turn on the ad-blocker/image-remover, it does work on all sites you visit with zillions of ads.

wow, so all those sites who exist because of ad revenue you just block them all? you're basically making it harder for them to stay alive. even pay-for content like magazines and cable tv have ads.

that's fine though, you're helping us get closer to a pay-for content on the web and the ads won't be removable soon too.

cheers,
pt

i can't answer for fitch but for me any sort of advertiseing is a wasted effort since i have never or will ever click on any sort of ad. With magizines and cable tv i can either turn the page or flip to another station, with web ads i can't do that without some sort of image blocker/pop-up killer. Also cable tv ads and magizine ads don't slow the tv projecting a picture or slow how fast the text in a magizine appears.

[Fitch]

that's fine though, you're helping us get closer to a pay-for content on the web and the ads won't be removable soon too.

cheers,
pt

It's each persons right to download any amount of content he/she wants. In fact, Mozilla does download the ads to see what size they are and what kind of image they are (i.e. animated gif that is banner-sized) I simply don't see them.

It's a shame you feel the need to bash me in public. That's not constructive at all. This isn't the place to be talking about this.

[pt]

It's each persons right to download any amount of content he/she wants. In fact, Mozilla does download the ads to see what size they are and what kind of image they are (i.e. animated gif that is banner-sized) I simply don't see them.

It's a shame you feel the need to bash me in public. That's not constructive at all. This isn't the place to be talking about this.

read my comments (again) "you're basically making it harder for them to stay alive. even pay-for content like magazines and cable tv have ads. that's fine though, you're helping us get closer to a pay-for content on the web and the ads won't be removable soon too".

"bash" is something far different. bash would be insults, etc...

it's your right to cut the ads out of magazines, get a tivo, close your eyes when movie previews come on in the theaters, all that. but advertisers and content creators need to generate revenue, as does sites like pocket pc thoughts (servers, hosting, etc..ain't free).

cheers,
pt

[pt]

i can't answer for fitch but for me any sort of advertiseing is a wasted effort since i have never or will ever click on any sort of ad. With magizines and cable tv i can either turn the page or flip to another station, with web ads i can't do that without some sort of image blocker/pop-up killer. Also cable tv ads and magizine ads don't slow the tv projecting a picture or slow how fast the text in a magizine appears.

you might not click through an ad, but many people do. when companies spend money on ads, they're usually getting a fairly expected return on the investment and spend. i don't click them either, in fact many people don't 90% of marketing doesn't work, but it's an important part of any product or service.

and ads on tv and do "slow" the content since they are commercial breaks through the program.

keep in mind, you don't need to visit this site, there are many other sites (most / all with ads) or you can also build your own. if you can figure out a way to do something like pocket pc thoughts and keep it ad free, please post it up, i'm sure we'd all like to figure out how to do that too.

cheers,
pt

[disconnected]

Well, I'm always resistant to change, and I do mostly prefer the old look. It seemed more relaxed and informal somehow.

However, if all the new blinking ads help keep the site alive, then I can live with them.

What is more difficult is the font size. My eyesight is not great, and I can hardly read this at all now.

[Robotbeat]

Uhhh... I only read the first three pages of this thread, but I'd just like to say that I don't like the two sidebars. Having ONE sidebar would be okay, but having two makes it kind of cramped. I think that the big ads are kind of annoying. I would say that a good solution is to have sort of like Pocketmatrix.com's front page, which has a small sidebar to the right with a few small ads and also a top-bar that stays for the entire site. The top-bar design of PocketMatrix is very similar to that of this page. I think that two little ads are better looking than one big one, so have like four little banners and then the top-bar one, instead of having a big sidebar one, another one or two sidebar ones, and also the top-bar one. I don't like big ads. Small, well-designed ads can actually add (pun semi-intended) something to the site (kind of like the top-bar ads of slash-dot). Big ads are just annoying. I never click on them. Things that annoy me I do not like to support.

I don't know if this is a policy of PocketPCThoughts, but perhaps you should require that ads pass your guys' inspection before put on the webpage. I also think that the sidebar should be on the right side, which makes it easier for people to read the content of pages when they are using small screens.

As far as the rest of the screen real estate, make sure that you don't just have non-scrollable unused space on the top or the sides. That makes it really cluttered. I don't visit brighthand anymore because it is WAY too cluttered. I think Dave Coffing's page is cluttered, but I still use a lot of the stuff on the sides that make it cluttered, so I guess that is justifyable.

I am not usually one to preach simplicity, but I do miss the simple layout of the old page.

Another thing, make sure that you don't take crap from advertisers! I think that having only a few ads is better than having a ton, since customers are more attracted to a page with fewer ads. Also, if a customer IS going to click on an ad, they are less likely to click on a certain ad if there are a lot of other ads to click on. Tell this to advertisers and make them pay more for having one ad than how much it would be for one ad if there were more ads (that barely made any sense, but it is just kind of common sense, so I think you'll understand).

I like the pretty colors...

[Robotbeat]

BTW, I do remember when PocketPCThoughts was ad-free. (Actually, I'm not completely sure if it was... Could someone verify that? It all seems a blur...)

BTW, I am glad that advertisers are interested in this page. I sure am ;).

[pt]

Another thing, make sure that you don't take crap from advertisers! I think that having only a few ads is better than having a ton, since customers are more attracted to a page with fewer ads. Also, if a customer IS going to click on an ad, they are less likely to click on a certain ad if there are a lot of other ads to click on. Tell this to advertisers and make them pay more for having one ad than how much it would be for one ad if there were more ads (that barely made any sense, but it is just kind of common sense, so I think you'll understand).

"don't take crap from advertisers?" yikes, those folks make this site possible, the "crap" they give is actually money (servers, hosting, etc.. cost money, so do designers and staff).

you've got some good ideas like "tell this to advertisers and make them pay more" if you could broker some higher paying advertisers, you should contact jason if you're able to pull that off.

cheers,
pt

[pt]

BTW, I do remember when PocketPCThoughts was ad-free. (Actually, I'm not completely sure if it was... Could someone verify that? It all seems a blur...)

BTW, I am glad that advertisers are interested in this page. I sure am ;).

yah, i'm always glad when top brands, software and hardware providers support sites like ppc thoughts.

i think "back in the day" like most community sites pocket pc thoughts was ad free, but that was before a jillion people started visiting per day and it became what it is today-- one of the best sites in the world for pocket pc peeps'.

what would be great to hear is a little more "great work, ppc thoughts team" and a little less unrealistic (ads suck, they need to go). unless you're willing to sugar-daddy the site, maybe just post nice stuff, nothing at all, or paypal the site some $ then you can complain :-]

the passion required to keep up a great site like this is sometimes fragile, be cool.

cheers,
pt

[avoglio]

Another thing, make sure that you don't take crap from advertisers! I think that having only a few ads is better than having a ton, since customers are more attracted to a page with fewer ads. Also, if a customer IS going to click on an ad, they are less likely to click on a certain ad if there are a lot of other ads to click on. Tell this to advertisers and make them pay more for having one ad than how much it would be for one ad if there were more ads (that barely made any sense, but it is just kind of common sense, so I think you'll understand).


Just one word from an advertisment point of view. Since everybody knows that banners are being clicked once in a while only, there main intention is not to generate clickthroughs - its main purpose is to transfer a message.
And don't take a single ad too serious. It will not be very successful. It has to be inside a concept, e.g. transfer a companies imgage or highlight a product or whatever.
So regarding many small ads and one big ad I have to say that it absolutely depends upon the campaign. As well as one big ad I could imagine of one small or even all the same small ads totalling the size of one big !

There is no golden way in advertising, and it has to be individual.

[Robotbeat]

I didn't mean to put down the spirit of the site. I'm sorry.

What I was trying to say is that... Well, in the U.S., there are laws as to how close highway billboards can be. Because of that, the highways look better and the signs have effort put into them so that the advertisers can get their money's worth. In Mexico City and other places, there is not a limit to how many signs you can put. Now, if it was like this in the U.S., the cost of putting a billboard up would be less, correct? However, so would its effectiveness. That's all I'm trying to say. I'm just giving my suggestion.

About smaller ads: If you have a really big ad, sometimes there is a big, distracting movement in them. If you have a bunch of little ones (that equal the size of a big one), the movement is less big and therefore the distraction is also less. This is the difference between a bunch of little ads and an equivalent-sized big one. That's all I was saying there. I'm not sure if a few little ads would make more money for PPCthoughts than one big ad, but I do like smaller ads because their placement is more fluid than big ads, which are difficult to place on the sidebar of a webpage if the sidebar is really small.

I realize that PPCthoughts needs cash flow to survive, but if you have a really nice looking page that has easily-accessable news and minimal ads(like the classic PPCThoughts), more people will come to it. When more people come to it, the more that you can charge for ads. This is the core of what I was trying to say. Maybe, if you graphed the change in over-all cash-flow to a ad-cluttered site as opposed to a cleaner ad-minimal site, you'd prove me wrong, but then again, maybe I would prove you wrong instead. I guess it's a good project for a statician to work on for college or something...

Do you get the gist of what I'm saying? I like the site. I will still go here, but I'm sort of a hardcore PPCThoughts person. Others might rather go to another website that loads faster and looks cleaner (not too many of those are left). I don't know.

The other reason that I mentioned the clutter of the ads is because Jason asked us,"...as a first step do you like what you're seeing?" I simply don't like more ads, and I don't think anyone does. The advertiser would rather be the sole advertiser on a popular page, not just one of a dozen in the clutter. Jason needs the cash, but he wants people to enjoy reading PPCThoughts. And you and I, we of course don't like more ads.

[ThomasC22]

It's each persons right to download any amount of content he/she wants. In fact, Mozilla does download the ads to see what size they are and what kind of image they are (i.e. animated gif that is banner-sized) I simply don't see them.

It's a shame you feel the need to bash me in public. That's not constructive at all. This isn't the place to be talking about this.

Well, from in theory, I think you're point is bunk. It's like saying it's everyone's right to steal items off the store shelf. You are being provided a service by this site and they are asking you to look at ads in return just as you are buying items at the store and being asked to give money in return.

That being said, in practice, I feel like a hypocrite because lets face it, who here doesn't use the commercial breaks on TV to go to the bathroom?

[pt]

I didn't mean to put down the spirit of the site. I'm sorry. What I was trying to say is that... Well, in the U.S., there are laws as to how close highway billboards can be. Because of that, the highways look better and the signs have effort put into them so that the advertisers can get their money's worth. In Mexico City and other places, there is not a limit to how many signs you can put. Now, if it was like this in the U.S., the cost of putting a billboard up would be less, correct? However, so would its effectiveness. That's all I'm trying to say. I'm just giving my suggestion.

that analogy doesn't apply here, there's mostly likely never going to be any laws about ads near content like web sites and magazines, it's up to the site / content owners and advertisers to determine if the effectiveness is worth the spend. are you thinking that there should be laws on how close the ads can get to the information super-highway? won't happen.

over 30 years ago, the law that you're talking about (i think) was the highway beautification act. on average, new billboards are twice as big as they were in 1965, and there are fifty percent more of them than 30 years ago. today there are an estimated 550,000 billboards on federal-aid highways, compared to the 330,000 billboards that first inspired the Act. between 5,000 to 25,000 new billboards - 10 to 20 million square feet of new advertising space - are added to the nation's roadsides each year.

effective or not, that's a picture of what's going on.

but like i said, the mexico analogy isn't one that applies here.

but hey, please feel free to start an "internet beautification act" that would be kinda cool.


About smaller ads: If you have a really big ad, sometimes there is a big, distracting movement in them. If you have a bunch of little ones (that equal the size of a big one), the movement is less big and therefore the distraction is also less. This is the difference between a bunch of little ads and an equivalent-sized big one. That's all I was saying there. I'm not sure if a few little ads would make more money for PPCthoughts than one big ad, but I do like smaller ads because their placement is more fluid than big ads, which are difficult to place on the sidebar of a webpage if the sidebar is really small.

while all those things sounds great...i think the ppc thoughts team are making the best decisions they can. if you know someone who would like to advertise with ppc thoughts with one big ole' ad, contact jason, i'm sure he'd love to chat with them.

I realize that PPCthoughts needs cash flow to survive, but if you have a really nice looking page that has easily-accessable news and minimal ads(like the classic PPCThoughts), more people will come to it. When more people come to it, the more that you can charge for ads. This is the core of what I was trying to say. Maybe, if you graphed the change in over-all cash-flow to a ad-cluttered site as opposed to a cleaner ad-minimal site, you'd prove me wrong, but then again, maybe I would prove you wrong instead. I guess it's a good project for a statician to work on for college or something...

there's never been any evidence ever that non-ad content attracts more views in any medium than ad-content. examples: tv, newspapers, movies, times square, the planet earth. it's 100% about the content.

top 20 shows on tv, all have ads (surprise):
http://tv.yahoo.com/nielsen/

maybe monday night football would get more viewers if they didn't have ads, but then they couldn't afford to do the show.

there's billions of dollars worth of studies each year on this, there are reasons why people market-- mainly because it works.

i don't like ads either, but they're here to stay in all forms of media for quite some time. thank goodness, they keep sites like this around.

Do you get the gist of what I'm saying? I like the site. I will still go here, but I'm sort of a hardcore PPCThoughts person. Others might rather go to another website that loads faster and looks cleaner (not too many of those are left). I don't know.

i'll play "hardcore pocket pc thoughts person" poker with just about anyone, any day. this is a great site, if you're really hardcore, why not help out? paypal some bucks, do something. maybe a little more positive thoughts as opposed to "ads suck" passion is fragile, heck start a site without ads, we'd all love to check it out.

The other reason that I mentioned the clutter of the ads is because Jason asked us,"...as a first step do you like what you're seeing?" I simply don't like more ads, and I don't think anyone does. The advertiser would rather be the sole advertiser on a popular page, not just one of a dozen in the clutter. Jason needs the cash, but he wants people to enjoy reading PPCThoughts. And you and I, we of course don't like more ads.

what advertiser do you know that will step up? please post / send to jason.

cheers,
pt

[Robotbeat]

My point about the Mexican billboards was just an analogy, one that doesn't apply to how you used it. My point has nothing to do with law.

I wasn't trying to say "No ads". I was trying to say "not so many ads." The old site didn't have as many ads. That was fine. That is what I'm talking about, not getting rid of ads!

I was not trying to argue. I wasn't, honest! I was telling you my opinion that perhaps it is just as profitable to have three ads as it is to have 13 ads. For the sake of the viewers, 3 ads is preferable. If three ads is enough for the site to go on, then why not? Just that the site was once ad-free tells me that the guys who run this site aren't looking for a million advertising bucks. There are other ways to make money (like selling a book or having affiliate partners, which is sorta kinda like advertising, but far less annoying). And besides, I think that these guys are more worried about the principle of the site than making a few extra dollars.

I was not trying to argue. I was trying to state my opinion. Then, when you thought that I was trying to argue with you (which I wasn't since I said that I hadn't read most of the thread at first), you tried finding holes in my opinion. When I tried to explain my opinion and my "thought", you thought that I was saying that your argument was wrong. That is not true. I was just trying to explain that your interpretation of my stated opinion was not what I intended. I am now "arguing" that you are wrong about my opinion. My opinion that I think it would be better for fewer ads to be on the site can't be wrong because it's an OPINION!!! Jason asked for us to tell him what we think of the site. I told you what I think! You can't say that, in a sense, what I said is not what I thought because I am generally the only human who knows exactly what I'm thinking at any one time.

Jason asked for what we think about the new layout. He must (unless he is stupid, which, of course, he is not) expect some of the feedback to be somewhat negative, unless everyone liked everything about the site! Now, do you ENJOY the addition of more ads? All I am really saying is that I dislike the fact that PPCThoughts has more ads than it dida week ago. All the stuff about the size of the ads and whatever is speculative and not a firm opinion in my mind. Understand? I am not trying to argue! I tried to write my posts so that you wouldn't try to find things wrong. I thought I had made it clear that what I was saying was either speculative or was my opinion.

[Robotbeat]

Also, the reason that I don't donate is that I'm not yet 18 years old, so I can't legally possess a PayPal account. Besides that, I don't have a job and I'm in college.

BTW, Jason Dunn, I think that having a single sidebar is better than two. (Ads are another topic, but I don't think that you need input there.)

[Robotbeat]

The first statement of my previous post seems contradictory ("Under 18 and in college?"), but it's not.

[Robotbeat]

Thomas, your statement (the one about how turning ads off is stealing) is really pathetic. I don't want to argue. Arguing is dumb. However, that statement is simply absurd. Do any other people see a real argument here? (not counting advertising people)

[pt]

I was telling you my opinion that perhaps it is just as profitable to have three ads as it is to have 13 ads. For the sake of the viewers, 3 ads is preferable. If three ads is enough for the site to go on, then why not? Just that the site was once ad-free tells me that the guys who run this site aren't looking for a million advertising bucks. There are other ways to make money (like selling a book or having affiliate partners, which is sorta kinda like advertising, but far less annoying). And besides, I think that these guys are more worried about the principle of the site than making a few extra dollars.

i can't speak for jason, but if there a way to do 3 ads, and pay for everything via affiliate links, i'm confident they would.

i really hope everyone who keeps talking about ads tries to run a site like this once in their life.

cheers,
pt

[Robotbeat]

Point taken, pt.

[pt]

Thomas, your statement (the one about how turning ads off is stealing) is really pathetic. I don't want to argue. Arguing is dumb. However, that statement is simply absurd. Do any other people see a real argument here? (not counting advertising people)

people in advertising don't count?

i don't think ad blocking is stealing, i do think it's a temporary situation, enjoy it while it lasts.

cheers,
pt

[Robotbeat]

PT, at first I was going to say "not counting advertising people AS PEOPLE". ;) ;) ;)

[ThomasC22]

Thomas, your statement (the one about how turning ads off is stealing) is really pathetic. I don't want to argue. Arguing is dumb. However, that statement is simply absurd. Do any other people see a real argument here? (not counting advertising people)

Well, if you don't want to argue, but you do want to discuss, I'd appreciate a little more than it's really "pathetic"

Maybe you should start with why it's pathetic...

[pt]

PT, at first I was going to say "not counting advertising people AS PEOPLE". ;) ;) ;)

really? that's pretty awful to say. ah well.

cheers,
pt

[Ed Hansberry]

PT, at first I was going to say "not counting advertising people AS PEOPLE". ;) ;) ;)

really? that's pretty awful to say. ah well.

cheers,
pt
They are people. They just have no souls. :wink: Oh, wait, that's lawyers. :oops: :lol:

[Fitch]

Yeah. Ahem, so, anyway, I figured out why Mozilla wasn't showing the emoticons or the Topic icons. I had somehow chosen "block images from server" probably months ago, that's why it didn't work on the old site either, and only in IE. (that option is right under "view image" so I must've clicked it accidentally)

So ignore my message about viewing problems in Mozilla! I love the design and the style, thumbs up from this Mozilla user.

But Wait!
I found a bug!
In Mozilla, if you click the "Pocket PC Thoughts" banner at the top to take you back to the main page, it takes you to:
"http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/..\index.php"
which Mozilla interprets as "http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/..%5Cindex.php" and can't find it.

The code says
<a href="..\index.php">
where it should say
<a href="../index.php">
or more simply
<a href="..">

IE ignores it/figures out what it's talking about, but this error will happen on any UNIX or Mozilla-based browser.

Hope this reaches the right person

[Ed Hansberry]

So ignore my message about viewing problems in Mozilla! I love the design and the style, thumbs up from this Mozilla user.[/i]

Cool. Still, there is the Mac issue. Hrm....

[icatar]

When I tried to vote in the second poll (about the font size), I got a message that says that I already voted. I read earlier that the votes are based on IP address, but I am behind my own firewall at home and I'm sure no one else would have voted here.

I voted fine in the first poll.

Any ideas?

UPDATE:

I received the error message when I voted from the front page. When I went into the forum and voted, my vote was cast fine. Hope this helps.

[pt]

Jason, is it possible to add like a page two for the homepage since there doesn't seem to be as many new stories on the first page and i sometimes miss a day and the weekends and i don't want to miss any news.

hey "paqman_lover" guess how much people care what your experience is like here?

ZERO.

you're blocking ads and telling others to do the same, you clearly like this site but doing everything to give it a quick death. and you're taking up the staff's time.

To everyone that thinks the site is too cluttered feeling (as do i), useing mozilla, have mozilla block images from the ads in the left-bar and it will kill everything in that blue bar below the pay pal donate button and it will make the site very easy to read again and you won't have to give up any of the good new features.

if i were ppc thoughts, i'd make sure your experience gets worse (jason can we detect his browser (and / or ip address) and refresh him off to another site? another page with just ads (non-ad sizes) so his browser lets them in. i'll work with the developer if you want and do this. or maybe when folks like him come to the site the hosting bill and your grocery list is displayed.

good gawd.

cheers,
pt

[pt]

Jason, is it possible to add like a page two for the homepage since there doesn't seem to be as many new stories on the first page and i sometimes miss a day and the weekends and i don't want to miss any news.

aw, wouldn't want the guy who's block ads and telling other people to do the same to miss some news.

do you know how much folks care about your experience on this site?

zero.

you clearly like the site, but you're doing everything to give it a quick death and you're taking up their valuable time posting now.

if i were the thoughts team, i'd make your experience far worse by either looking for you ip and / or your browser and serving up another version of the site, maybe all the text would be in the blink tag.

i'm not kidding.

refresh you to another page, with just ads (sized so they go through)...or to a picture of the hosting bill, and perhaps even a copy of a morgage payment and grocery list.

good gawd. paqman_lover.

cheers,
pt

[Janak Parekh]

So ignore my message about viewing problems in Mozilla! I love the design and the style, thumbs up from this Mozilla user.[/i]

Cool. Still, there is the Mac issue. Hrm....
Well, there are still Mozilla problems. I don't block anything (I view the ads unlike some of the other Mozilla surfers :)) but the site doesn't render the smilies on the front page for me. I get : lol :, etc. (without the spaces, of course). This on WinXP. IE renders it perfectly.

(... checking some more ...)

Found it! The problem is, again, backslashes, which doesn't work on Macs, Mozilla, Netscape, Opera, etc. On the front page, you get things like

< img src="./forums//images\/smiles/icon_wink.gif" alt="icon_wink.gif" border="0" / >

That's not valid html. Please remove/replace the backslashes on both this and the logo up on the top left guys... thanks! :)

--bdj

[Jason Dunn]

Something about Mozilla smells funny guys...look, the HTML code for the smilie images is EXACTLY this:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

There are no "backwards" slashes. The code for the logo in the upper left corner is exactly this:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php

I don't know how you're seeing the backwards slashes, but it's not part of our code - unless I'm not seeing what's really there (somehow).

At any rate, we'll look into it, but perhaps your browser isn't perfect?

[Janak Parekh]

This is coming from the guy who is blocking ads, effectively killing the only real income source this site has? Why should my husband do anything to make the site better for someone who won't even load a graphic to help support the site?
Agreed :) By the way, guys, the Mozilla fixes look great... don't assume that all of us Mozilla users are non-ad-viewers. I don't mind the ads on the site, they're pretty discreet. About the only ads I've ever blocked are the damned X10 ads. Those are obnoxious and distracting. Let's hope y'all won't be resorted to use those, I don't want to unblock them ;)

--bdj

[brntcrsp]

hey jason, using IE 6 and view source, I too did notice some funny slashes. A good example is in the MAP tag that is located at the bottom of the page. You'll notice that there are hrefs that look like "..\about.php"

I'm not being picky, but just noticing these things. Renders fine for me though.

I also found it on the /index.php

[pt]

Jason, is it possible to add like a page two for the homepage since there doesn't seem to be as many new stories on the first page and i sometimes miss a day and the weekends and i don't want to miss any news.

To everyone that thinks the site is too cluttered feeling (as do i), useing mozilla, have mozilla block images from the ads in the left-bar and it will kill everything in that blue bar below the pay pal donate button and it will make the site very easy to read again and you won't have to give up any of the good new features.

[size=12]If we have to have ads make them pop-ups since Mozilla has a built in pop-up killer that's 100% effective :lol:


hey paqman_lover, do you know how much folks care about -your- experience and if you miss news?

zero.

in fact, it would be great if your experience got worse.

you block the ads that support this site, tell people to do the same, and waste the staff's valuable time with trying to support you. ya clearly like the site, but your efforts help bring sites like this a quick demise. enjoy it while it lasts.

if it were up to me, i'd look for your ip / browser (and folks like you)- and send you to another page and / or site with just ads (sized so you you can't filter them) or maybe a send you over to a page with copy of the sever-hosting bill along with other costs running a site like this.

good gawd.

pt

[pt]

This is coming from the guy who is blocking ads, effectively killing the only real income source this site has?

right on.

this fella gets zero support making his experience better. the fact he's promoting the use of ad blocking for this site is even worse.

cheers,
pt

[Ed Hansberry]

This is coming from the guy who is blocking ads, effectively killing the only real income source this site has? Why should my husband do anything to make the site better for someone who won't even load a graphic to help support the site?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(making these number up, so don't even ask, I don't know the real ones)

New server: $15,000
Site design: $8,000
Monthly bandwidth: $1,000
RSS Script: $200
Seeing the site owner's wife rip the ad blocker a new one: Priceless.

[ThomasC22]

Ok, I think I may have found a buy in the forums (take a look up (or down it appears as my new post appeared before the repeated ones)) ;)

[M.M]

This is paqman_lover, i'm not sure why it's not letting me post messages-i haven't been blocked have i?

anyways, pt do you work for ad saleing company? if not, why all the personal attacks against me?

I have never said i do want to support this site, i have said i don't like the ads. how much money does pocketpcthoughts make when i don't click on an ad? a couple of pennies? clicking on an ad is like clicking on a link found in a spam email, both things i will never do.

I'd much rather pay a couple bucks a month and see this site be ad free. there are also other ways to make money other than selling ad space.

Watching other sites that have become dependent on ad money as they slowly have to increase the amount of ad space to keep the money comeing, i worry that will happen here as well. How soon before we get the honor of seeing x-10 ads here or the flash ad for "axe effect" that's all over forumplanet.com that features a video snipet of a cheerleader who can't control herself and tries to rip the pants off of a football player because he uses axe effect?

These are the types of ads that will hurt more than the money they bring in and i will say it again - I'd rather pay a couple bucks a month and be ad free here then to see ads.

[Ed Hansberry]

This is paqman_lover, i'm not sure why it's not letting me post messages-i haven't been blocked have i?
No. Try logging out and back in. If it doesn't let you post, email me the exact error message the board gives to news at pocketpcthoughts.com

[pt]

This is paqman_lover, i'm not sure why it's not letting me post messages-i haven't been blocked have i? anyways, pt do you work for ad saleing company? if not, why all the personal attacks against me?.

hopefully someone blocked you, it would serve ya' right. i'm a fan of jason's efforts and love this site-- i'll most certainly call out someone who's telling everyone to block ads which support this site, and then wastes the site owners time complaining about how the site does look good. personal attacks-nope, i don't know ya at all (i love everyone) but i'm most certainly attacking what you're telling folks to do.


I have never said i do want to support this site, i have said i don't like the ads. how much money does pocketpcthoughts make when i don't click on an ad? a couple of pennies? clicking on an ad is like clicking on a link found in a spam email, both things i will never do.

doesn't matter, what you're doing is encouraging other to block the only form of revenue sites like this can really get, you're also wasting all of our time with trying to get your ad-blocking browser to display stuff, i really hope your last on the list to get any fixes. if it were up to me, you'd have a very different experience on this site.


I'd much rather pay a couple bucks a month and see this site be ad free. there are also other ways to make money other than selling ad space.

really? don't you think if there were a way to run this site ad free they would? please share your ideas on how to run this site, if they're good i'm sure a commission can be arranged. and if you haven't --send some $ via paypal if you're really interested in supporting this site.


Watching other sites that have become dependent on ad money as they slowly have to increase the amount of ad space to keep the money comeing, i worry that will happen here as well. How soon before we get the honor of seeing x-10 ads here or the flash ad for "axe effect" that's all over forumplanet.com that features a video snipet of a cheerleader who can't control herself and tries to rip the pants off of a football player because he uses axe effect?

don't change the subject, doesn't matter-- you're blocking and encouraging others to suffocate this site. when you post crap like that, some advertisers read these boards, and they might pass on an ad spend they'd normally place here because of one person (you).

block ads sure, whatever, but maybe keep that to yourself.

These are the types of ads that will hurt more than the money they bring in and i will say it again - I'd rather pay a couple bucks a month and be ad free here then to see ads.

great, soon that will hopefully be a choice.

keep in mind, that cable tv, and print magazines cost "a couple bucks" a month and those have ads and you pay for thise, popular online destinations aren't any different. welcome to world.

pt

[Fitch]

I don't know how you're seeing the backwards slashes, but it's not part of our code - unless I'm not seeing what's really there (somehow).
I think you're consfusing the word "code" with just mousing-over the link or getting image properties, and not trying it in other browsers.

What you're seeing is IE assuming what the HTML author meant rather than what the author typed. Backslashes just aren't acceptable HTML, but since MS-DOS, and every Microsoft OS thereafter, uses them, MS wrote some extra code into IE to convert them to forward slashes.

Take a look at the source (View menu, then Source) and you'll see the backslashes we're talking about.

I bet the author could do a simple find-and-replace to fix this all up.
Hope this helps!

[Fitch]

Any ideas?It doesn't check your IP, it just thinks of you as a "guest" user. That is (as you've discovered) until you log-in. If you set your forum preferences to log you in each time you visit the site, all future votes will be counted from you, and you alone.

[Ed Hansberry]

This is paqman_lover, i'm not sure why it's not letting me post messages-i haven't been blocked have i?
No. Try logging out and back in. If it doesn't let you post, email me the exact error message the board gives to news at pocketpcthoughts.com
Well, I got your PM but I can't reply. Same message. :lol:

[Robotbeat]

Honestly, I think that having Jason recommend someone's product is better than a dozen ads. Make good products, Jason will like them, you'll sell. Good idea, huh?

Another thing, I don't think that anyone has to really worry about those people who block the ads. They are about 1/1000 of the crowd (at most) and they are unlikely to respond to advertising in the first place.

BTW, the ads aren't that bad, it's mostly the cramped design that I think is bad. Seeing as Jason didn't personally design this site (a guy named Fabrizio Fiandanese did), I don't see that as a personal attack. Even if he did design the site, it still wouldn't be an attack since I am just giving my opinion, which he asked.

Also,
PT wrote:M.M wrote:
I'd much rather pay a couple bucks a month and see this site be ad free. there are also other ways to make money other than selling ad space.


really? don't you think if there were a way to run this site ad free they would? please share your ideas on how to run this site, if they're good i'm sure a commission can be arranged. and if you haven't --send some $ via paypal if you're really interested in supporting this site.


PT, I think it'd be wise to read someone's post thoroughly before making a comment that would appear to be attacking that person.

Some ways to make money other than selling ad space: selling hardware or software, selling services such as consulting or repair, tech support, getting support from a big developer like HP or Microsoft, having "affiliate partners" like PPCThoughts already has, or a subscription-based service.

There. Now that wasn't so hard, was it, PT? Don't be so agressive in putting other people's posts down.

BTW, those alternatives to making money that I mentioned also have their obvious downsides, but they are feasible. I was trying to tell PT to not be so quick to rip on other people!

[Gremlin]

Any ideas?It doesn't check your IP, it just thinks of you as a "guest" user. That is (as you've discovered) until you log-in. If you set your forum preferences to log you in each time you visit the site, all future votes will be counted from you, and you alone.
Makes sense, perhaps it should just disable voting for "guess" to prevent any confusion.

[Brad Adrian]

Some ways to make money other than selling ad space: selling hardware or software...
Takes away any semblance of objectivity that the site has

...selling services such as consulting or repair...
AND administer the site? Maybe with 30-hour days

...getting support from a big developer like HP or Microsoft...
These big companies are surprisingly reluctant to do this, even with a site as important as Jason's

...or a subscription-based service...
Tried it last year. Of the thousands of readers, fewer than one dozen ponied up the suggested $5 per month fee

My only point is that we need to give Jason a bit more credit. He makes running this site MUCH easier than it really is. The ads are a last resort, and I can live with them.

[Ed Hansberry]

hey jason, using IE 6 and view source, I too did notice some funny slashes. A good example is in the MAP tag that is located at the bottom of the page. You'll notice that there are hrefs that look like "..\about.php"

I'm not being picky, but just noticing these things. Renders fine for me though.

I also found it on the /index.php
I see :
{MAP id=menubar name=menubar}
{AREA shape="rect" coords="3,3,88,12" href="..\submit.php"}
{AREA shape=RECT coords=96,3,161,12 href="search.php?&search_id=newposts"}
{AREA shape=RECT coords=168,2,210,12 href="login.php?logout=true"}
{AREA shape=RECT coords=226,3,294,11 href="profile.php?mode=editprofile"}
{AREA shape=RECT coords=307,3,352,12 href="..\about.php"}
{AREA shape=RECT coords=363,4,418,11 href="..\contact.php"}
{/MAP}
at the bottom. Those appear to be backwards but IE6 renders it fine.

[paqman_lover]

Here's something i found interesting. On the homepage the buttons "submit news" , "new posts" , "login" etc. work on mozilla. viewing the code they appear like this:

<!-- MAP start -->
<map id=menubar name=menubar>
<area shape="rect" coords="3,3,88,12" href="submit.php">

<area shape=RECT coords=96,3,161,12 href="./forums/search.php?search_id=newposts">
<area shape=RECT coords=168,2,210,12 href="./forums/login.php">
<area shape=RECT coords=226,3,294,11 href="./forums/profile.php?mode=editprofile">
<area shape=RECT coords=307,3,352,12 href="about.php">
<area shape=RECT coords=363,4,418,11 href="contact.php">
</map>
<!-- MAP end -->

But in the forums they are written like this:

<map id=menubar name=menubar>
<area shape="rect" coords="3,3,88,12" href="..\submit.php">
<area shape=RECT coords=96,3,161,12 href="search.php?&search_id=newposts">
<area shape=RECT coords=168,2,210,12 href="login.php?logout=true">
<area shape=RECT coords=226,3,294,11 href="profile.php?mode=editprofile">
<area shape=RECT coords=307,3,352,12 href="..\about.php">
<area shape=RECT coords=363,4,418,11 href="..\contact.php">
</map>

It appears it's the \ that are confuseing mozilla. The same thing is probably happening in reverse with the smileys since i can see them in the forums but not on the homepage.

Jason, is it possible to add like a page two for the homepage since there doesn't seem to be as many new stories on the first page and i sometimes miss a day and the weekends and i don't want to miss any news.

[Ashley Dunn]

Jason, is it possible to add like a page two for the homepage since there doesn't seem to be as many new stories on the first page and i sometimes miss a day and the weekends and i don't want to miss any news.

This is coming from the guy who is blocking ads, effectively killing the only real income source this site has? Why should my husband do anything to make the site better for someone who won't even load a graphic to help support the site?

[paqman_lover]

This is paqman_lover, i'm not sure why it's not letting me post messages-i haven't been blocked have i?
No. Try logging out and back in. If it doesn't let you post, email me the exact error message the board gives to news at pocketpcthoughts.com
Well, I got your PM but I can't reply. Same message. :lol:

It's working this morning, it must had something to do with the time being moved around yesterday.

why can't you pm me back? is there something wrong with the system?

A subscription based service would have a better chance of working now. I think people are more inclined today then a year ago to pay a reasonable amount of money to keep a site going as more and more sites start a subscription based service.

And give subscribers a couple of extra benefits for joining. Maybe let them customize the site, adjust how much news is displayed or the number of columns or the font size. Maybe start reviewing products and give subscribers a full review full of pictures/video but give non-subscribers a very short review. Maybe let subscribers view all the archived news but only let non-subscribers view the last 7 days.

There isn't pocket pc thoughts gear is there? t-shirts, mugs, mouse pads, etc. would be great to have. Granted maybe a little silly but make a few dollars on each and get some free publicity and have more people come to the site.

pt i wasn't trying to change the subject, i'm trying to say that eventually ads like those i mentioned or the gambling ads will be shown here since these are the ones that bring in the money and these types of ads will turn people off to the site. Also, the ads are not actually blocked, they still load onto my computer but i just can't see them. if the ad pic is 100 x 400 pixels what i see is a 100x400 white spot, i can still click on the ad and it would redirect me to the target of the ad.

also i don't think advertisers have to worry about people like myself with IE being used by 96% of the world for their browser and netscape haveing a 3.4% market share that leaves .6% to be split amongst opera and mozilla users.

finally, thanks for fixing the links in the header.

[Robotbeat]

My only point is that we need to give Jason a bit more credit. He makes running this site MUCH easier than it really is. The ads are a last resort, and I can live with them.

Point taken, and I am sorry that I sounded negative. My point was kind of to "shoot back" at PT, who I somehow felt offended by. My post was the result (both directly and as a reaction to) of kind of the sort of misunderstanding that happens all too easily on the Internet (because text is often easily misunderstood when people are from different countries or areas and stuff... and also because often times we don't give the time to read about what people have to say/write) and is the #1 cause of flaming and whatnot. BTW, if you misunderstood what I just said, I meant to say that I was rash.

I don't want to put down any of the people who run this site, which I think I have done by accident. This is my favorite site on the web and I honor your opinions more than pretty much any other site on the Internet. I apologize.

[Robotbeat]

I am a student, so I would be unlikely to get a subscription until I get a job, but I would buy a shirt, maybe.

I personally don't think that PPCThoughts will ever have to have the sort of ads like the X10 and the Casino ones. The ads on this site are PPC related, so they can't be bad. I mean, sometimes when I look in, say, audio-phile magazines, I look at the ads for the sake of the ads because they are well-made and related to something that interests me.

Actually, I do think that a PPC miscellaneous stuff (tshirts, mugs, posters, etc...) store is a good idea. Kind of like how Slashdot.org has a partnership or something with ThinkGeek which sells t-shirts related to the Slashdot site or other geeky linuxy type stuff.

[karen]

It seems that viewing new posts resets itself must more often or via a wider variety of events than before.

I find that I can read a couple of messages, then post one or two and new posts appears to work as if I'd logged out and logged back in again. So it means that new posts only shows posts made in the last couple of seconds.

I used the new messages feature to read all posts in the past, so this change in what's happening is driving me crazy.

Karen