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Ed Hansberry
09-09-2002, 07:00 PM
<a href="http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=59774">http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=59774</a><br /><br />Brighthand has a thread going on that has some pics of what could be the iPAQ 5000 series. Rumors have been around for months. The hardware still shows Compaq but the ROM clearly shows HP as the manufacturer.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2002/20020909-ipaq5000.jpg" /><br /><br />Rumored specs:<br />• X-Scale @ 800MHz <i>(doubtful)</i><br />• 64 MB RAM<br />• 48 MB ROM<br />• Bluetooth<br />• WiFi optional<br />• GSM phone<br />• Optional biometrics<br /><br />So, what do you think? Real? Doctored pics? Old test mule?

/dev/niall
09-09-2002, 07:04 PM
Must... not... buy... another... PDA... without... integrated... CF...

Ack! It's so hard some days. Nice to see they're keeping the form factor a little longer.

Foo Fighter
09-09-2002, 07:12 PM
Nice to see they're keeping the form factor a little longer.

Looks like they are using the old iPaq form factor. This isn't based on the 38xx/39xx design.

Ed Hansberry
09-09-2002, 07:14 PM
Looks like they are using the old iPaq form factor. This isn't based on the 38xx/39xx design.
:?: It isn't the 3600/3700 either.

Ainvar
09-09-2002, 07:15 PM
It is like that for me, I love the iPAQ. I have bought and returned the e740, and e550g from Toshiba. They just did not have what I was accustomed to or did not have what I was looking for after using it for a period of time. I own the 3835 series and can not really complain about it after the ROM 1.20 upgrade. I guess my next step with be the 3970 or newer if they will lower the price some. I refuse to pay more that 599.00 USD for something that does not have more than what I really have now.
I used a 3955 handson and I love it but not enough to buy it when my device still has that unf to it.

strong887
09-09-2002, 07:15 PM
I am currently at a Cisco IP Telephony conference in Penn Plaza, NYC and one of the presenters had a HP Ipaq 5450 Pocket PC. It is using the same screen as my 3975 (compared them side by side). Notable is the built in 802.11b with a VERY small antenna (smaller than the one in the picture). It has a removeable battery and the earphone jack is on the bottom of the casing. Supposedly, this model supports a headset connection (speaker and mic) in that plug. A h.323 softphone application was being demoed on it by a company called IP Blue. I verified the asset information as an HP5450.

don dre
09-09-2002, 07:22 PM
While I really want a PDA with built-in CF, I am inclined to lean towards ipaq's. They just seem to have the most solid feel, the largest screen (not to mention now the best screen), and of course, I already own a CF Expansion Pack Plus. With built in Wifi, BT, and GSM it hardly seems necessary to always have the expansion pack on. In fact, I only use my expansion pack for certain occasions as is and mostly in my apt to use the WiFi adaptor. If they can pack all of that in, it significantly reduces the need for cf cards. Of course, I can't even afford the 3970.

Foo Fighter
09-09-2002, 07:35 PM
:?: It isn't the 3600/3700 either.

Yes it is. The buttons have been redesigned, but the basic form is still the same.

entropy1980
09-09-2002, 07:35 PM
I am currently at a Cisco IP Telephony conference in Penn Plaza, NYC and one of the presenters had a HP Ipaq 5450 Pocket PC. It is using the same screen as my 3975 (compared them side by side). Notable is the built in 802.11b with a VERY small antenna (smaller than the one in the picture). It has a removeable battery and the earphone jack is on the bottom of the casing. Supposedly, this model supports a headset connection (speaker and mic) in that plug. A h.323 softphone application was being demoed on it by a company called IP Blue. I verified the asset information as an HP5450.

Ok what's the form factor look like? :?:

entropy1980
09-09-2002, 07:38 PM
Rumored specs:
• S-Scale @ 800MHz (doubtful)
• 64 MB RAM
• 48 MB ROM
• Bluetooth
• WiFi optional
• GSM phone
• Optional biometrics

So, what do you think? Real? Doctored pics? Old test mule?

So what's an S-Scale? :lol: You mean Snail-Scale? :lol:

Ed Hansberry
09-09-2002, 07:41 PM
:?: It isn't the 3600/3700 either.

Yes it is. The buttons have been redesigned, but the basic form is still the same.
No it isn't. Speaker at the top. SD slot at the top. Black top-hat design. Other than the antenna and button changes, the only thing different between this and the 3800/3900 is the mic at the bottom - which makes sense for a phone.

Charles Pickrell
09-09-2002, 07:44 PM
The model in the photo doesn't appear to have the biometrics scanner installed on it below the Joypad. I wonder how much this thing will cost and what is optional and what is part of the base model.

E550G Fan Page (http://www.mobilecomputingsig.com/GenioE/index.htm)

torring
09-09-2002, 07:44 PM
Listen folks!

These must be doctored pictures: The nav. button looks completely like the one on the Toshiba e310, and it look stupid too.

No Ipaq, yet to come out, has looked this lame, and why are the pistures so fuzzy? and why only from the front?


Come on.


The specs are nice though, and I would like to be able to use my old case.

Foo Fighter
09-09-2002, 07:46 PM
No it isn't. Speaker at the top. SD slot at the top. Black top-hat design. Other than the antenna and button changes, the only thing different between this and the 3800/3900 is the mic at the bottom - which makes sense for a phone.

No..no..no. Compare pics of a 37xx to a 39xx, and you will see what I mean. When Compaq introduced the 3800 series, they shortened the bottom, and made the top portion taller to accomodate the speaker and SD slot. Go look for yourself... this is a modified 3700.

PPCRules
09-09-2002, 07:47 PM
So, what do you think?
I suppose I really don't have to say anything, but, you know, I don't really care.

Even though my first PocketPC was an iPaq, and at that time I thought it was pretty hot stuff, since then I have become so unimpressed with their products that I don't even care to see another one, especially if it looks anything like today's Ipaq.

I think Compaq/HP is doing the same thing Palm did years ago: miscalculating what made them successful, not realizing they just happened to fall into success, and thereby not letting go of the past and moving on to a product the current market wants and needs.

MonolithicDawgX
09-09-2002, 07:56 PM
It looks as if the bottom of the iPaq is much larger, making the whole unit larger. Does this mean it won't fit in existing sleeves/cases, etc.? And why the smaller middle button? For more joystick type properties? I'm not sold on that design, at least not yet.

Foo Fighter
09-09-2002, 08:00 PM
It looks as if the bottom of the iPaq is much larger, making the whole unit larger. Does this mean it won't fit in existing sleeves/cases, etc.?

As I have already pointed out, this unit is based on the older 3700 series iPaq. It's still the same size.

Sslixtis
09-09-2002, 08:10 PM
Anyway, Who really cares what iPaq it's based on? Can't we have a formfactor that doesn't need the Dam*** sleeve? :evil: Now on to the bright side :lol: Atleast they have a removeable battery listed so if they could have a replacement Extended Battery like the Jornada I'd bite, as long as it wasn't $999.99 :wink:

As for the 800Mhz XScale, depending on the release date for this. Intel has tested XScales out to 1Ghz so far. (not production yet, die yield is low) And as far as XScale being snail-scale, has anyone tried the PocketTV Enterprise Edition on the XScale, It SCREAMS! As XScale software comes to market the performance will be awesome. And Intel does have a software development lab in Arizona to help developers optimize since MS has been dragging it's feet! 8O

Leon
09-09-2002, 08:12 PM
Looks like they are using the old iPaq form factor. This isn't based on the 38xx/39xx design.
:?: It isn't the 3600/3700 either.
To me it looks like the supposed 5000 is much more curved than the previous (36xx-39xx) ones. I can hardly imagine that the sleeves would fit. It doesn't make sense to create a model that resembles the old form factor but at the same time doesn't allow it to wear existing sleeves. My tentative conclusion: doctored pics.

Gremmie
09-09-2002, 08:31 PM
As I have already pointed out, this unit is based on the older 3700 series iPaq. It's still the same size.

Point out and undoubtfully have proved with the...I don't know, no one has really proved anything about this yet about the form factor

Charles Pickrell
09-09-2002, 08:41 PM
To me it looks like the supposed 5000 is much more curved than the previous (36xx-39xx) ones. I can hardly imagine that the sleeves would fit. It doesn't make sense to create a model that resembles the old form factor but at the same time doesn't allow it to wear existing sleeves. My tentative conclusion: doctored pics.

If it is doctored they did a really good job. I took the photo from the right and resized it and placed it on top of the image from the left and everything lined up. If you look at the right and left photos the lighting and reflections on them are different. Specifically look ad the dpad and notice that the light reflections in the pad on the left and the pad on the right are not the same. If this is the work of Photoshop, it is good work.

ThomasC22
09-09-2002, 08:43 PM
Point out and undoubtfully have proved with the...I don't know, no one has really proved anything about this yet about the form factor

Well, you could...now, there is no way that I'm going to do this, but if someone else was so inclined they could measure the size of the screen (which is undoubtably the same size as the current iPaq screen) and then use that measurement to determine the size of the rest of the device and then compare it to a 3600 series.

Paul P
09-09-2002, 09:04 PM
If it is doctored they did a really good job. I took the photo from the right and resized it and placed it on top of the image from the left and everything lined up. If you look at the right and left photos the lighting and reflections on them are different. Specifically look ad the dpad and notice that the light reflections in the pad on the left and the pad on the right are not the same. If this is the work of Photoshop, it is good work.

To me, the unit looks disproportionate in just about every way. The speaker and the pad areas especially seem to have been tampered with (not because they simply look different, but because they look lopsided somehow).

Or maybe I just hate the design and want to believe it’s a fake. :(

Ivan
09-09-2002, 09:19 PM
As I have already pointed out, this unit is based on the older 3700 series iPaq. It's still the same size.

Foo... I'm disappointed... you forgot to ask THE question:

"Does this thing have a transflective screen?" :D

Pony99CA
09-09-2002, 09:31 PM
Foo... I'm disappointed... you forgot to ask THE question:

"Does this thing have a transflective screen?" :D
According to Strong887, who claimed to have seen the iPAQ 5450, it does.

Steve

Jason Dunn
09-09-2002, 09:32 PM
I deleted the posts from the troll, suspended his accounts, banned his IP, and edited/deleted the posts in this thread that quoted him - if your message was one of the ones I deleted, nothing personal, just cleaning house. Let's keep this about the iPAQ, not about some sexually frustrated guy who's stalking me, ok? :lol:

I agree, the photos do look a little odd, but I always thought the D-pad on the iPAQ could stand some improvements, so perhaps this is their solution?

jffcurt
09-09-2002, 09:36 PM
I'm sorry every one, this thing is UGLY. The bottom portion has got to be fake. I can't believe theirs a designer around that would design the bottom to look like a bunch of rollerballs. It actually looks grotesque next to th 3800-3900 models. :x

jschloer
09-09-2002, 09:39 PM
I agree with Charles. If it's doctored they got a lot of details right. I like how the first picture chops off the bottom where the thumbprint scanner would be. I especially like the screenshot with the thumbprint scanner software. Gotta say if this specs are right on this it would be an excellent leap. And as long as it does Wi-Fi I have no need for a CF slot. SD is just fine for memory. Built in wi-fi and built in GSM. Anything around 700 and I'd have trouble holding back. only remaining killer feature for me is fuel cell powered, if that ever comes to fruition.

heov
09-09-2002, 09:46 PM
First of all, this does look doctared because the top looks to be messed up and doctored from the 3900 speaker. Also, it's not "shiny" enough up top in the black area.

One other thing, that Antenna looks messed up. It has to be from the top, and not the back because of the expansion sleeves. And it would look weird if it was just a black "stick" sticking out of a silverish curved iPaq top, know what I mean...

Plus, this is about the ugliest iPaq I have everseen; I like the joypad though. Plus, there is so much wasted room on the bottom part- they could have at least made the joypad bigger to fill up the space... Though, the biometric thing could be under the joypad in another model.

Foo Fighter
09-09-2002, 09:47 PM
Foo... I'm disappointed... you forgot to ask THE question:

"Does this thing have a transflective screen?" :D

Ha! That goes without saying. Many of the current PPC 2002 devices are impressive...but I just can't go back to reflective displays. If I had to choose a PPC today, it would probably be the 3950, only for that reason. I hope we see more of these screens on future devices.

jdhill
09-09-2002, 09:59 PM
I'm going to have to agree with the "ugly" statement. The buttons on the bottom appear to be way too small for the overall size of the device. How about a nice decent sized d-pad like the one on the old Casio E-1xx series? And what's up with the application buttons? They're dinky too.

And a more general comment: Some of you will remember a few years back when the Casio E-100 and E-105 were the top selling Windows CE PDAs. Casio got complacent and when Pocket PC 2000 came out, they just did a minor update and released the E-115 and E-125. Then came the lackluster E-200 (I can say that, I own one). Now Casio is apparently getting out of the Pocket PC business in the US.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

HP appears to be sticking with the same basic design that they have been using for the 3100, 3600, 3700, 3800 and 3900 devices. While those of you with a large investment in sleeves are pleased that HP continues to support them with new devices, you also need to realize that this hinders innovation. The HP 3xxx series is beginning to show its age. We have seen where a lack of innovation has hurt Palm. It may be time for HP to "break the mould" and do some serious new thinking. Otherwise, in a couple of years they too may find themselves withdrawing from the PDA business in the US if somebody else passes them by.

Jody Low
09-09-2002, 10:40 PM
Hate the NAV button too, but consider the small size when you place it up against your face. I would rather have the small size than a bunch of unintentional button pressing going on.

Dave Conger
09-09-2002, 10:56 PM
All I have to say is ick. I hope this is a really early prototype...cause...ick. And if the headphone jack is on the bottom, what is with that?

The only good thing is it fitting the old sleeve formfactor, but that isn't going to be a selling point for me.

strong887
09-09-2002, 11:15 PM
To reiterate, i can attest to the fact that the pcs are real. The 5450 i played with today said HP on it. Also, the antenna was a small nub. The battery was removeable but the form factor appeared identical to all the other ipaqs . I didn't get any pictures unfortunately.... The guy from IP Blue did say that he received it 2 days ago for testing with his h323 app over 802.11b.

adamz
09-10-2002, 12:29 AM
I don't see any Pocket PC Phone Edition icons in the title bar there. If there's a version with GSM/GPRS, that would be beautiful! No more blinking bluetooth light either!
Glad to see it will still support the expansion sleeves too!

Paul P
09-10-2002, 03:35 AM
Hmmmm.....what about the charging light led? I don't see it.

Also, where is the bluetooth light led (or 802.11b). Ed will be disappointed if the smoothing and relaxing blinking of the blue light is no longer there.

wangsanegara
09-10-2002, 03:58 AM
The antenna reminds me of an older Ericsson phone, but I forgot which model. I'd say this is a fake model....

A.W

Ed Hansberry
09-10-2002, 04:10 AM
Oh, I love the light. I would hate to see it go away. :roll:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2002/20020830-blueled.gif

Will T Smith
09-10-2002, 04:50 AM
So, what do you think?

I think Compaq/HP is doing the same thing Palm did years ago: miscalculating what made them successful, not realizing they just happened to fall into success, and thereby not letting go of the past and moving on to a product the current market wants and needs.

AMEN !!!!

Sometimes success stories are merely an example of being in the right place at the right time. IPaq is coasting on it's initial momentum.

Regarding the photos, I find the detail of a Compaq shell with an HP ROM screen telling. The 38/39 thumbpads are hard to use due to there extreme elliptical shape. Too much thumb travel. It makes sense to tweak it.

Of course it could ALL be doctored. If so, H-Paq is shooting itself. The iPaq form-factor is simply too big. They're going to get stomped by the sleek svelty competition like Toshiba 310 and ASUS MyPal and the T-Mobile PocketPC Phone.

Paul P
09-10-2002, 06:43 AM
I think Compaq/HP is doing the same thing Palm did years ago: miscalculating what made them successful, not realizing they just happened to fall into success, and thereby not letting go of the past and moving on to a product the current market wants and needs.

By that you mean not increasing capacity, not improving performance, not adding more memory, and not providing more options? Stagnating existence of Palm and progression of HP/Compaq do not equate. The only exciting and changing aspect with respect to Palm is Sony.


Sometimes success stories are merely an example of being in the right place at the right time. IPaq is coasting on it's initial momentum. The iPaq form-factor is simply too big. They're going to get stomped by the sleek svelty competition like Toshiba 310 and ASUS MyPal and the T-Mobile PocketPC Phone.

Based on the discontent with the 3800s, that momentum should have died out with the release of the 3900s. From reading this and other forums, the 3900s series is considered to be the best PocketPC from HP/Compaq. This was not a consensus from CNET, which I don't really trust, but from 'real' users here. Toshiba 310 is smaller, yes, but for $300 it is really a low end PocketPC. Perhaps we will see a similar counterpart from HP/Compaq. For users who want more, they will continue to buy higher end PocketPCs.

JonnoB
09-10-2002, 08:02 AM
It seems that with the exception of the iPaq style line, every major XScale based Pocket PC available has dual slots. I can understand that HP wants to maintain the iPaq expansion sleeve, but they should do so on top of having dual slots in the base unit. Who wants to have a sleeveless device with only an SD slot in it?

Take1
09-10-2002, 10:37 AM
I don't know about anyone else, but I've had nothing but trouble with SD cards in my 3835 -- the slowdown/freezing is unacceptable.

I'd rather HP integrate 2 CF slots and be done with it. CF is trouble free and quick -- the cost of the CF cards is reasonable, and perhipherals are abundant. Offer a CF/SD adapter for sale and you'll make everyone happy. Considering the size of the e310, it shouldn't be impossible to have 2 CF slots and keep the form factor the same size as the original iPAQ. Sleds are a nice option for unique expansion/multimedia options (video, PCMCIA, etc.) but not for CF -- too much bulk to justify it's use for adding a CF slot.

Ken Mattern
09-10-2002, 02:28 PM
I think Compaq/HP is doing the same thing Palm did years ago: miscalculating what made them successful, not realizing they just happened to fall into success, and thereby not letting go of the past and moving on to a product the current market wants and needs.

Right on!

The iPAQ was the default winner by virtue of being first (Who beat IBM at their own game?). The HP Jornada was a better machine save that they made that mistake (blunder) with the 12 bit screen sold as 16 bit. That and it was not a TFT screen.

With the 560 series HP got it all right. HP needs to break the mold and create a brand new Pocket PC supporting CF and SD card slots, bluetooth or WiFi, GPRS, bla, bla, bla...

Now is the time to be innoavtive and not the time to rely on past performance. Technology marches on. It was great when it was in his heyday, but my Tandy 1000 bit the dust when the 80386 came along. I never looked back. I won't now either, I'll switch brands and keep on marching.

adamz
09-10-2002, 02:39 PM
I don't understand all the fuss about not having a built in CF slot. I bought a 256MB SD card for $140 and it works beautifully in my H3970. My older 256MB CF card was about $110. Not much of a price difference for such a size decrease. And if there was a CF slot, what would you have to give up to accomodate that? CF cards are pretty big now compared to SD cards! I'm perfectly comfortable not needing a CF slot now. This is the 21st Century after all! :)

As for a removable battery, you've got expansion packs for that too. And the battery on the 3970 is really excellent! Plus, if they do implement that (and it sounds like they might), it would have to be a dual battery where only one section is removable... since, while one battery is removed, another battery needs to power the volitile RAM. And dual batteries likely means a bigger device.. or, less battery life.

I also disagree that the iPAQ form factor is too large, especially for what this is capable of. And the expansion packs have been around so long, it makes sense to preserve such a successful market in 3rd party accessories.

Ed Hansberry
09-10-2002, 03:48 PM
The iPAQ was the default winner by virtue of being first (Who beat IBM at their own game?). The HP Jornada was a better machine save that they made that mistake (blunder) with the 12 bit screen sold as 16 bit. That and it was not a TFT screen.
Uhm... the iPAQ was third behind the Casio E-115 and HP 540 series. Fourth if you count the Compaq Aero upgrades. And the iPAQ had a 12 bit screen too.

They weren't first out of the shoot by a long shot. Heck, you couldn't reliably get one until Jan/Feb 2001 - 9 months after the Pocket PC 2000 devices started shipping.

Jonathon Watkins
09-10-2002, 03:53 PM
I don't understand all the fuss about not having a built in CF slot. I bought a 256MB SD card for $140 and it works beautifully in my H3970. My older 256MB CF card was about $110. Not much of a price difference for such a size decrease. And if there was a CF slot, what would you have to give up to accomodate that? CF cards are pretty big now compared to SD cards! I'm perfectly comfortable not needing a CF slot now. This is the 21st Century after all!

512 Mb Expansys SD card = £389 ($583)
512 Mb Expansys CF card = £182 ($273)

And you were saying what about the price.........?

A LOT of devices are available in CF format that simply aren’t there is SD format. SD is too small for many devices – or you need a bit poking out that can get snapped off. A CF card can be self contained as it is a bit larger. It is still very small however – small enough.

I WANT both slots – it gives me more options & is future proof. One SD slot is NOT enough. :D

Ken Mattern
09-10-2002, 05:31 PM
Well Ed, that's what I get for ignoring the iPAQ and sticking with the Jornada! :oops:

adamz
09-10-2002, 05:52 PM
512 Mb Expansys SD card = £389 ($583)
512 Mb Expansys CF card = £182 ($273)

And you were saying what about the price.........?



Hehe. Well, yeah, the 512MB cards are always outragously priced!



A LOT of devices are available in CF format that simply aren’t there is SD format. SD is too small for many devices – or you need a bit poking out that can get snapped off. A CF card can be self contained as it is a bit larger. It is still very small however – small enough.

I WANT both slots – it gives me more options & is future proof. One SD slot is NOT enough. :D

This doesn't explain why you need it built into the device. Get a $40 expansion pack and you're all set. But for those that don't use the CF slot, that's a huge amount of space being wasted on the device. You could use that space for more important things like a battery.

Jonathon Watkins
09-10-2002, 06:15 PM
512 Mb Expansys SD card = £389 ($583)
512 Mb Expansys CF card = £182 ($273)

And you were saying what about the price.........?

Hehe. Well, yeah, the 512MB cards are always outragously priced!
Ok then –

1 Gb Expansys SD card =Not availible :cry:
1 Gb Expansys CF card =£576.87

256 Mb Expansys SD card = £235 ($352.5)
256 Mb Expansys CF card =£77.84 ($116.76)

(there is no point in going smaller then 256Mb now is there?) :wink:

This doesn't explain why you need it built into the device. Get a $40 expansion pack and you're all set. But for those that don't use the CF slot, that's a huge amount of space being wasted on the device. You could use that space for more important things like a battery.
Bulk, size, inconvenience, “The form factor of a pregnant marmoset”, spending extra on what most other PPC have built in anyway etc.

The area of a CF slot gives you – what 20, 30 minutes extra? I’ll have the CF slot thanks. :D

adamz
09-10-2002, 07:26 PM
256 Mb Expansys SD card = £235 ($352.5)
256 Mb Expansys CF card =£77.84 ($116.76)

(there is no point in going smaller then 256Mb now is there?)

Yikes! What are you doing buying SD cards at Expansys for that price! Like I said before, I bought a Sandisk 256MB SD card for $140 and no longer care about Compact Flash memory.


Bulk, size, inconvenience, “The form factor of a pregnant marmoset”,


And that's EXACTLY why the Compact Flash card slot is NOT included in the iPAQ. There's this thing called the law of conservation of mass (It's not just a good idea.) If you want to add something as large as a CF slot to the iPAQ form factor, you've got to skimp on something else by compressing or removing it. Toshiba did this with a lower quality smaller screen, lesser audio, low battery life, etc.
I didn't want the bulk in the iPAQ either, so I got an SD card! Whenever I need the CF slot, I just slide it on. Where would you put a CF slot on the current iPAQ?

You want to change the form factor and lose the vast amount of other expansion options that already exist as expansions sleeves? Wouldn't that decrease your expansion options by limiting you to only a CF or SDIO slot? I believe it would.

Jason Dunn
09-10-2002, 08:42 PM
Some people like CF.
Some people like SD.
But we all love the Pocket PC.

No need to argue! :lol:

(I personally wish my XDA had a CF card slot, but I'm not surprised they didn't cram one in there).

PPCRules
09-10-2002, 09:28 PM
I think Compaq/HP is doing the same thing Palm did years ago: miscalculating what made them successful, not realizing they just happened to fall into success, and thereby not letting go of the past and moving on to a product the current market wants and needs.

By that you mean not increasing capacity, not improving performance, not adding more memory, and not providing more options? Stagnating existence of Palm and progression of HP/Compaq do not equate. The only exciting and changing aspect with respect to Palm is Sony.

I was primarily referring to styling/form factor, which is the predominant theme of the conversation here. The other "specs" of the device are not likely to greatly set it apart from any other device that comes out about the same time (unless lack of dual internal slots dooms it).

I've got an "investment" in iPaq sleeves too, but I don't use the unit daily because they make it just too big. What I'm saying is they need to leave the past (the packaging, which made the iPaq unique/distinctive in its time) and supply people (the market growth consumers, not present owners) what they need and want now.

If Jason is right in the other thread, and this is only one of three new devices, that part is good. But, as much as I hate to say it, I don't think the market is going to grow fast enough for them to be able to maintain three distinctive lines, and I don't think young orphan units help market acceptance of the platform (although they make good bargains).

I don't care that much about the prosperity of HP/Compaq, but since chance bestowed on them the leadership position in PocketPCs, they need respond to that trust and deliver something that will move the platform on to the next level.

Jonathon Watkins
09-10-2002, 09:58 PM
256 Mb Expansys SD card = £235 ($352.5)
256 Mb Expansys CF card =£77.84 ($116.76)

(there is no point in going smaller then 256Mb now is there?)

Yikes! What are you doing buying SD cards at Expansys for that price! Like I said before, I bought a Sandisk 256MB SD card for $140 and no longer care about Compact Flash memory.

OK - but you are in the States. I am in the UK. That is a really good price for 256Mb SD card in the UK - we are ripped off here badly. :? The point was that SD is twice or more the cost of CF.

You want to change the form factor and lose the vast amount of other expansion options that already exist as expansions sleeves? Wouldn't that decrease your expansion options by limiting you to only a CF or SDIO slot? I believe it would.
No - I want a CF AND a SD/MMC slot AND USB AND other expansion options like sled type add-ons. I don't have an investment in any IPAQ kit - so want them to push the envelope and design a better PPC.

IF this is 5000, it's not good enough.

mobileMike
09-11-2002, 11:28 AM
Please tell me if this is too far off topic.

This and other new PPCs list WiFi, Bluetooth, and GSM/GPRS as options.

1) What version of WiFi will this support? Is anyone concerned that there are 3 standards for WiFi (b, a, g)? I see "a" on the shelves at Best Buy now and this is incompatible with "b". OK, I guess the devices can be used with "g" but not at the increased speed.

2) New versions of Bluetooth are soon to start showing up. I have been hearing about 1.2 and 2.0.

3) Then there is GSM/GPRS. I think this has more longevity then the other two, but the operators are going to start pushing 3G networks next year. Shortly after this device comes to market.

Is it possible to upgrade any of these with ROM updates? I am assuming not. This is why my next device will have 2 slots. One for memory expansion (SD) and one for networking (CF). I like my iPaq 3850, but the competition is working hard.

I have also heard the speed of the BUS has been a limiting factor in PPCs performance. I don't know what the current BUS speeds are, but do the new XScale PPCs use a faster BUS?

- mike

Pony99CA
09-12-2002, 05:21 AM
If Jason is right in the other thread, and this is only one of three new devices, that part is good. But, as much as I hate to say it, I don't think the market is going to grow fast enough for them to be able to maintain three distinctive lines, and I don't think young orphan units help market acceptance of the platform (although they make good bargains).

I have three things to say about this.

Toshiba e310
Toshiba e740
Toshiba e550g

:-)

Steve

Gremmie
09-12-2002, 05:27 AM
I have three things to say about this.

Toshiba e310
Toshiba e740
Toshiba e550g

:-)

Steve

But when you walk into a CompUSA or a Best Buy, how often do you see accessories for all three products? Maybe an e310/740 cradle, an e550g; most people buy these from retail stores and look at how many people are discouraged that no keyboard or Vaja cases exist for these. I don't think they will be able to sustain this.

Pony99CA
09-12-2002, 07:21 AM
I have three things to say about this.

Toshiba e310
Toshiba e740
Toshiba e550g

:-)


But when you walk into a CompUSA or a Best Buy, how often do you see accessories for all three products? Maybe an e310/740 cradle, an e550g; most people buy these from retail stores and look at how many people are discouraged that no keyboard or Vaja cases exist for these. I don't think they will be able to sustain this.
My point was that HP/Compaq isn't the only company thinking multiple lines are viable. And how many lines does Palm have?

In fact, I was at CompUSA Tuesday, and they were carrying three lines of iPAQs -- a 37xx, a 38xx and a 3970. (I finally thought to check if my 3870's Bluetooth actually worked by scanning for the 3970. :-))

With all the people in this thread saying "give us what we want", I bet 100 lines wouldn't satisfy everybody. :-)

As for Vaja cases, how many CompUSA/Best Buy shoppers have even heard of them to be discouraged that they don't exist? If you just mean cases in general, that may be true.

Of course, if people buy accessories from CompUSA or Best Buy, why not go check out what they carry before buying their PDA?

Steve

Gremmie
09-12-2002, 07:35 AM
But when you walk into a CompUSA or a Best Buy, how often do you see accessories for all three products? Maybe an e310/740 cradle, an e550g; most people buy these from retail stores and look at how many people are discouraged that no keyboard or Vaja cases exist for these. I don't think they will be able to sustain this.
My point was that HP/Compaq isn't the only company thinking multiple lines are viable. And how many lines does Palm have?

In fact, I was at CompUSA Tuesday, and they were carrying three lines of iPAQs -- a 37xx, a 38xx and a 3970. (I finally thought to check if my 3870's Bluetooth actually worked by scanning for the 3970. :-))

With all the people in this thread saying "give us what we want", I bet 100 lines wouldn't satisfy everybody. :-)

As for Vaja cases, how many CompUSA/Best Buy shoppers have even heard of them to be discouraged that they don't exist? If you just mean cases in general, that may be true.

Of course, if people buy accessories from CompUSA or Best Buy, why not go check out what they carry before buying their PDA?

Steve

Thats what I was trying to imply without typing it all, people generally do look at available accessories and they might see that and be turned away from HP. I don't want them to be like Sony, and as for Palm, they had to make some concession by making the cradle's the same and they do spend a large amount of money putting up display's in stores. The Vaja and keyboard thing mainly peturb me because its something important.