Ericsson to re-evaluate Sony Ericsson venture

[Andy Sjostrom]

<a href="http://www.quicken.com/small_business/news/index-article.dcg?story=/news/stories/dj/20020830/on20020830000005.htm&department=0">http://www.quicken.com/small_business/news/index-article.dcg?story=/news/stories/dj/20020830/on20020830000005.htm&department=0</a><br /><br />According to this Quicken.com article, which in turn quotes a Wall Street Journal article, Ericsson warns that they are taking a hard look at the underperforming Sony Ericsson venture: "Kurt Hellstroem, chief executive of Telefon AB L.M. Ericsson, warned that he won't continue pouring money into a high-profile mobile-phone joint venture with Sony Corp. unless its products quickly catch on, The Wall Street Journal reported Friday. ... Within the "next couple of quarters," he said in an interview, "we must see real acceptance" of the handsets that Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications is about to launch. Otherwise, he said, Ericsson won't "throw money" at the loss-making venture, formed just a year ago."<br /><br />I have an idea that would make Kurt Hellstroem a happy fellow. Send the overview specs to the Asians. Let them build the hardware, make it smart with innovative Microsoft software and sex it up with your brand name. Reduced risks, no bound capital in warehouses, lower R&D costs and higher margins. If I just knew how to reach him...

[PlayAgain?]

I think that it would be a waste of time to go through thre rigmarole of joining Microsoft. Not because I don't like Microsoft. Not because I prefer Symbian. Rather, because more and more I see the fuiture of smartphones in the Java technology that is already being used to innovate and provide services.

The DOS type displays of many Midlet applications are becoming a thing of the past, we are beginning to see respectable applications and games which have top colour and 3D graphics. The first proper spreadsheet is now in a useable beta stage.

This technology already has web viewers, e-mail clients, document viewers, VNC terminals, Telnet clients, stock quotes, weather reports and much more.

With the vast majority of smartphone software being in this format, why would any manufacturer worry about whether it is Symbian, Microsoft or Palm that is behind it all running the show?

Now I accept that some platforms have an advantage in that they can download native software direct from the internet and install on the spot (Symbian's .SIS Setup format is very compact and very versatile for this kind of application distribution), but I think that while it's good to have software that takes advantage of a unit's hardware, most manufacturers will be looking to get an OS running on their phone for as little as possible, as long as it runs Midlets. For the common man (and if you want to sell mobile phones in bulk, it is the common man you are targetting), it just doesn't matter and Ericsson would be wasting its money chasing yet another OS.

[Ed Hansberry]

Sounds like their P800 isn't doing so hot. What else do they even have? That is the only model I've seen.

[dochall]

Interesting but what have SE actually released. Their complete range of phones appear to be hangovers from the seperate companies. I would suprised if the T68 hasn't been successful for them as they seem to overtaken Nokia by a long way went it first arrived.

The P800 will be the first test and their certainly seems to be a big buzz about it.

As far as smartphone is concerned it isn't that different. If Ericsson are committed to the Symbian platform I don't see them jumping ship anytime soon. We'll just have to see how the P800 does.

[dochall]

Sounds like their P800 isn't doing so hot. What else do they even have? That is the only model I've seen.

Well as it isn't shipping yet it would have problem selling it in numbers.

[Ed Hansberry]

Well as it isn't shipping yet it would have problem selling it in numbers.
Ok, I didn't know. I was told in March when I was playing with one it would ship in early-mid summer. Didn't know if it was in Europe yet or not. Seems they may have pulled that P800 in favor of an updated one with Memory Stick support and that may have delayed the launch.

[Andy Sjostrom]

Wanna know more about Midlet? Don't visit midlet.org's site (http://midlet.org)!

"Sorry...


The page you have requested is currently unavailable.

If the problem persists, please contact us on [email protected]

Click here to go to the main page."

:lol:

Kidding aside. The race is on. It's Java vs Microsoft Windows and .NET.
My bet is on Microsoft. I like Microsoft and its products, especially the mobile ones! It's taken Microsoft the last few years to catch up from a mobile software architecture and devices point of view. Now, I believe it is just a matter of time before Microsoft increases pace and takes the lead.

And kidding aside, I don't believe you don't like Microsoft but that's ok with me! :-)

[denivan]

Seems like a pretty weird news message. As far as I know, the T68i is the only SonyEricsson mobile phone available to date. The T68i incorporates vast improvements over the T68 and is what you can call a flagship for SE. Now they'll release the P800 (to counteract the 7650 from Nokia) and then they'll start releasing phones for the public (no colour screens, no fancy stuff etc.) . Personally I don't think it would be smart for ericsson to drop out. Their latest phones weren't innovative and the T68 didn't make good use of its main selling point, color. So I don't believe that Ericsson can make a product on its own that can compete in the hard competitive mobile phone market today. Anywayz, if SE won't exist when I buy my next phone, it'll just be a normal Sony again.

[Ed Hansberry]

The T68i incorporates vast improvements over the T68 and is what you can call a flagship for SE.
Besides MMS, what vast improvements does the T68i have over the T68?

[Inaki C]

I think Ericsson is worried about lossing even more money. Ericsson is a company running down at a fast pace and they do not want to spend more money on powerful toys that do not sell. They are clipping activities where they do not see clear returns (they have closed several facilities across Europe and fired thousand of people).

I am pretty sure no smart phone device (be it Symbian or PPC) would have at this time enough demand to balance the budget, but it is necessary to explore that market to have a suitable device in the future.
Is Ericsson giving away in investing on new technology ?

I think the matter now is how to convince the potential customer a smart phone device is valuable and why. Operating system may mark a difference here becaue an appeal for customers is how easily they can integrate it with their desktops, at the home and enterprise levels.

By now Java is a good approach to use on proprietary operating systems, as Nokia as shown, but as a matter of fact software bussiness on the mobile phone industry is still ridiculous.

Perhaps the only one market profitable at this time for smart phones would be Japan. But I am afraid Japan model cannot be ported to western countries.

[denivan]

The T68i incorporates vast improvements over the T68 and is what you can call a flagship for SE.
Besides MMS, what vast improvements does the T68i have over the T68?

The whole user interface is centere more around the main selling point of the T68i, color ! Just hold a T68 and a T68i next to each other, they're totally different phones. I love my T68i and i would feel ripped off with a T68 (unless off course, you can easily upgrade it in your neighbourhood).

[Arne Hess]

The T68i incorporates vast improvements over the T68 and is what you can call a flagship for SE.
Besides MMS, what vast improvements does the T68i have over the T68?
A more childish or Japanese girlie design... ;-) :lol:

[kiwi]

I have a T68 due back soon after an upgrade of the firmware to T68i.

Yeah, downunder the Nokias are very popular - I partly think its because of the ease in which they are able to change their face plates. I started using a Ericsson T39, and after a while of getting used to it I really loved it (Then I lost it!) I have ow upgraded to the T68. The bluetooth and Tri-band are just 2 of the features that lure me to the Ericsson phone.

Bri

[Arne Hess]

Sounds like their P800 isn't doing so hot. What else do they even have? That is the only model I've seen.
See here what else they have planed.

http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?template=P1_3_105&B=ie&start=0&SortDate=1&SortName=0

Beside the P800 which is a Smartphone, the rest are more or less Featurephones "only":

http://www.sonyericsson.com/images/GPD_3020_27_0_990.jpg http://www.sonyericsson.com/images/GPD_2945_27_0_990.jpg http://www.sonyericsson.com/images/GPD_3023_27_0_990.jpg http://www.sonyericsson.com/images/GPD_2942_27_0_990.jpg and so on...

[krisbrown]

Sony ericsson are making a major mistake, and it is that their new phones look awful, people are not going to spend big bucks when the phones look so bland, I really don't understand, both companies have a history of making the coolest looking gadgets, but together the new smartphones are dreadful.

http://www.tsixtyeight.com/Default.asp

[PlayAgain?]

Wanna know more about Midlet? Don't visit midlet.org's site (http://midlet.org)!

Quite right, but if you go to http://www.midlet.org, you get a reasonable page, though I think that, at the moment, the best bet for a fuller flavour :wink: is http://www.midletcentral.com.

[Ed Hansberry]

Beside the P800 which is a Smartphone, the rest are more or less Featurephones "only":

Thanks. Looks like they are all T68 type phones with different hardware. If the P800 is all they have using Symbian, symbian is a dead horse.

[igreen]

SE is getting hosed by the slow rollout of GSM and GPRS in the US. I'd be all over a T68i if the thing had any decent amount of coverage. Telecoms are a victim of their own stupidity.....no need to buy new phones OR service because there is no compelling reason for anyone to switch from the old phone that has been working fine for the last few years. How many different calling plans and customized snap on face plates does a person need?

[PlayAgain?]

Beside the P800 which is a Smartphone, the rest are more or less Featurephones "only":

Thanks. Looks like they are all T68 type phones with different hardware. If the P800 is all they have using Symbian, symbian is a dead horse.

How come?

[Ed Hansberry]

Thanks. Looks like they are all T68 type phones with different hardware. If the P800 is all they have using Symbian, symbian is a dead horse.
How come?
Because one product does not a platform make.

[PlayAgain?]

That's an interesting idea and you're probably right. But to say that Symbian is a dead horse seems a bit harsh. I mean, would you say that the Microsoft Smartphone is a dead horse because there are no products yet available?

There are currently two distinct phone devices 'out there' using Symbian, the 9200 series (this includes the 9210, 9210i and the 9290) and the 7650. The P800 is just one of many more to come, and the spec on the P800 is simply awesome and blows Nokia's 7650 away.

So, With Motorola, Samsung (http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/020830/80/d8j6k.html), Siemens and others backing, I wouldn't have thought it a dead horse.

Not yet anyway.

And for the record (in case you take my first paragraph the wrong way), I don't think that Microsoft's offer is a dead horse either. But I stick to my point (which was made my jpzr earlier this year), the platform is going to be of no significance at all. O2 and Orange have just announced the fact that they will make Java games downloadable. If young people are willing to pay too much for squeaky ringtones and logos, they will pay for games that look and play good. And these games are platform agnostic. What can Microsoft do to make these operators provide games that only a small number of smartphones will be able to run (.NET) when the operators will be able to easily sell games that all smartphones (including Microsoft smartphones) will be able to run?

[Ed Hansberry]

That's an interesting idea and you're probably right. But to say that Symbian is a dead horse seems a bit harsh. I mean, would you say that the Microsoft Smartphone is a dead horse because there are no products yet available?

The Smartphone OS hasn't been done for a year like Symbian. It was just finished within the past few weeks. If there are no shipping Smartphone 2002 products in the next 3-6 months, yes, I'll be worried.
If young people are willing to pay too much for squeaky ringtones and logos, they will pay for games that look and play good. And these games are platform agnostic. What can Microsoft do to make these operators provide games that only a small number of smartphones will be able to run (.NET) when the operators will be able to easily sell games that all smartphones (including Microsoft smartphones) will be able to run?
IIRC, with the Compact .NET framework concept, you will be able to run the apps on any device with the .NET framework installed -Palm, Pocket PC, whatever. Andy knows more about this - maybe he can jump in.

[denivan]

I read the original post over again and I still don't get it. SE has untill now only released phone that was more of a flagship and not intended for the general public although I'm pretty sure that the T68i made SE a known brand by now. Now one year later, there are new phones ready in the linup, meant for your average Joe. Now, some may not like the stile, I think they're pretty good looking. So I wonder, why is Ericsson allready rethinking the merge ? Why not wait one more year to see how the launch of these new phones did ? I mean after one year of reorganisations and only one phone release so far, it's pretty soon to draw conclusions imo. Seems like the new lineup targets about every consumer, the P800 for the road warrior, another affordable color screen phone and a non color phone for kids and students. Seems to me that

Ericsson has another reason for trying to leave, what's your guess ?

[Jonathon Watkins]

Just wait to see what new Psion are going to come up with using Symbian ..................

[Ed Hansberry]

Just wait to see what new Psion are going to come up with using Symbian ..................
Uh huh. I'll believe it when I see it. Who will have a new device first, Handera or Psion. :roll:

[Rafe]

That's an interesting idea and you're probably right. But to say that Symbian is a dead horse seems a bit harsh. I mean, would you say that the Microsoft Smartphone is a dead horse because there are no products yet available?

The Smartphone OS hasn't been done for a year like Symbian. It was just finished within the past few weeks. If there are no shipping Smartphone 2002 products in the next 3-6 months, yes, I'll be worried.
If young people are willing to pay too much for squeaky ringtones and logos, they will pay for games that look and play good. And these games are platform agnostic. What can Microsoft do to make these operators provide games that only a small number of smartphones will be able to run (.NET) when the operators will be able to easily sell games that all smartphones (including Microsoft smartphones) will be able to run?
IIRC, with the Compact .NET framework concept, you will be able to run the apps on any device with the .NET framework installed -Palm, Pocket PC, whatever. Andy knows more about this - maybe he can jump in.

I'd just like to point out that its only Symbian 6 that has been available longer. Symbian 7 which has been around in gold about 3 weeks longer that Microsofts Smartphone is what is used in the P800. Added to that are the embarssing delays for Smartphone. The Z100 was supposed to be with us a year ago - nothing compared to the 2 month delay on the P800.

The point about the .NET framework is interesting, but I don't believe the mobile manufacturers will put it on thir phones - why because there in competition with MS. I've yet to see why .NET would so much more compelling (one a phone) than anything else.

Microsofts problem is that it will be playing catchup with Symbian. Symbian is a long way ahead in terms of OS development (there is a reason why all the major handet makers chose Symbain [aside from not being MS that is ;)])

The other important thing to realise is there are different market segments. MS Smartphone may compete in the hgiher end against the likes of the 92x0 series and the P800 (although personally I think these will be providing very stiff competitions for the MS challengers). However Symbian and Nokia between them will dominate with Series 60 in the lower end of the market where handset sales will be much higher and wehere the money will be made.

I know this is a Pocket PC site, but why is Symbian either ignored or disparaged? Microsoft has said it sees it as a threat, but most people here dismiss it. How can they do that when it has so much backing? Why do people really believe that MS will dominate when its debateable whether there'll still be in the area in a few years. The analysts seem to agree - most say the competition is three ways between Symbian and between handset manufacturers own OS (with Java sometimes added as a third contender). MS may be in with a shout in the high end phone market (i.e. current PPC with a phone built in), but Smartphone has been so often delayed, has so little industry support that it harsly seems threatening!

Rafe

[Ed Hansberry]

I know this is a Pocket PC site, but why is Symbian either ignored or disparaged?
Ignored because this is a Pocket PC site and Symbian has about as much marketshare as Linux does on PDAs right now.

It isn't disparaged. I thought 7 was released last fall and was mistaken. Thanks for the clarification. It was released at 3GSM World Conference. As far as I know, the only phone with it is the P800. The Nokia Communicator 9210 has Symbian 6, but I'd hardly call that a market success.

We'll see how it shakes out in the next 36 months. I'd say the smartphone market is wiiiiiiiiide open right now. There is no leader (I don't count PalmOS in this because only this fall will they really target a phone based OS, not a PDA crammed into a phone a la Treo or the Samsung units, which are competition for Pocket PC Phone but not a Smartphone) right now as there really are just a few products out or ready to ship in the next few months.