Pushing the barrier with PDAs

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020809S0008">http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020809S0008</a><br /><br />Change in the computer world is par for the course. Always faster, more memory, etc. That is also true of the PDA world. Four years ago we were using a variety of MIPS/SHx processors running in the 60-80MHz range and tickeled to death with 16MB devices. (Ok, Palm-sized PC users anyway - all three of us. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif" />) Two years ago we had 206MHz iPAQs with bright color screens and 32MB of RAM on backorder. Now we have 400MHz machines with 64MB of RAM and integrated bluetooth and/or WiFi.<br /><br />Well, Foo Fighter ran across this article at InformationWeek that goes over all of the changes that have happened and will be happening in the near future and what you should expect from the PDA platform in general. It is an interesting read, especially if you are considering a larger scale rollout in your organization.

[Jason Dunn]

Decent article, but...

"...and Palm OS 5.0 will provide greatly enhanced multitasking."

Augh! Damn talking head journalists. They just recite what Palm tells them instead of doing any fact checking themselves. :evil:


"...With microdrives from vendors such as IBM now offering 5 Gbytes or more of data in a Compact Flash format."

This 5 GB Microdrive from IBM is as mythical as the unicorn - it's like some strange urban myth that keeps going and going. I can find no real information on it, and since IBM has sold their hard drive business to Fujitsu (I believe) the Microdrive may simply be toast.

[takotchi]

Well, it's not exactly a myth.

At one point, IBM had a press release about this thing called "pixie dust" that allowed higher density, so they claimed that by early 2003, they would have 400GB desktop drives, 200GB notebook drives, and 6GB microdrives.

That was in 2001 as far as I know, but it was "official" from IBM that it was going to happen. It may have changed since then, but plans for a 6GB microdrive were in place. It probably would have cost more than whatever item you can find to use it in, of course.

[edit] Here is that article.

http://www.ibm.com/news/2001/05/21.phtml

[Jason Dunn]

Yes, I remember reading that article, but until a product is shipping, it's irresponsible for a journalist (or anyone) to speak of a product like it's an option for users. 8O

[Jeff Rutledge]

"...and Palm OS 5.0 will provide greatly enhanced multitasking."

Augh! Damn talking head journalists. They just recite what Palm tells them instead of doing any fact checking themselves. :evil:

Jason, can you elaborate on this? I know almost nothing about Palm OS5 but we are looking at all options in my company. I'm obviously PPC biased, but we need to look at what's coming down the pipe.

Thanks.

[Ed Hansberry]

Jason, can you elaborate on this? I know almost nothing about Palm OS5 but we are looking at all options in my company. I'm obviously PPC biased, but we need to look at what's coming down the pipe.
THe OS 5 ARM kernel technically will support multitasking, but the multitasking API will NOT be exposed to users or developers. In order to maintain maximum compatibilty with OS4 and below, they had to pass on this to get OS5 out the door. OS 6 (or whatever the next one is) will support it, or so they tell us, but I don't know if that requires new ARM apps or if you can multitask the old OS4x apps in the PACE environment.

Bottom line is there is no clear direction on when multitasking will be supported on PalmOS. Also, OS5 doesn't have native multimedia API's, no true file system (still) and custom fonts are not allowed. What is odd is native ARM apps are not allowed either. You can do some ARM dll's (or whatever Palm calls them) but full blown ARM apps are not supported on OS5.

[Jeff Rutledge]

That's very interesting. It's also probably the most information I've learned about OS5 so far. Is it just me or is information on this sketchy at best? I've read palmos.com and all that, but it doesn't answer any "real-world" questions. How about some screen shots?

I mean, for the OS that's supposed to save this company, there certainly isn't much hype (so far at least).

[Ed Hansberry]

I mean, for the OS that's supposed to save this company, there certainly isn't much hype (so far at least).
That is the whole point. The screenshots look like a high res OS4. Whoopee. They have really downplayed the OS capabilities because it doesn't do much for the end user or average developer that OS4 didn't do. It is a big deal internally for Palm as it moves them towards a fully 32bit multitasking non-16MB constrained device. They don't want you to know that though.

Best analogy I can think of is moving from Windows 98SE to Windows ME. There is nothing there for the end user to care about. THe interesting stuff will be the hardware. I think sony will have some killer devices. But don't look for much under the hood.

[Jeff Rutledge]

That's really too bad. As I think I've mentioned on this board before, I'm working to determine some level of mobile standards for our company. I have a 3870 and an m515. I don't use the m515 unless I'm given something specific to test. It's just plain dull compared to my iPAQ.

I was hoping that OS5 would close the gap. Doesn't look that way does it?

[Ed Hansberry]

I was hoping that OS5 would close the gap. Doesn't look that way does it?
Nope. Not to say Sony won't come out with a killer device that closes the gap, but Palm Source has no plans to make OS5+ device requirements standard like MS has done and OS5 itself is sorely lacking IMHO. Your best bet for a good comparison is wait and see what Sony does, but given their lack of non-Memory Stick slots, I think you may be limted in a corp. environment if WiFi/modems/mega-storage memory are desired.

[Jeff Rutledge]

Yeah, we'll definitely look at what Sony does for the sake of diligence if nothing else. Personally though, my decision is PPCPE vs. Smartphone vs. Bluetooth combo.

Any thoughts? Our priorities haven't been totally defined yet as we're early in the project, but I believe our priorities would be:
1. Email (wireless)
2. Phone
3. PIM

Sounds like you've tried just about everything that's out there. What would you suggest?

[Robotbeat]

In response to the original post, I have had a PSPC with a 131 MHz MIPS processor, 32 MB of RAM, built-in CF2 expansion, and a brilliant, 16-bit back-lit active matrix color display. That was the e105. It has exactly the same hardware as the e115, just a different version of Windows CE. Palm didn't even have any sort of color or high-resolution device back then. And the limit of memory on Palms was 2 MB, I think. 20 MHz cpu was all they had (I think, at least. If I'm wrong, I don't think that a 33 MHz cpu would matter all too much...).

Now, the display on that e105 is still better than anything else out there (with the exception of the @migo and the other e1xx/em5xx/e7xx/eg8xx Cassiopeias, which use the same display.). Granted, the 39xx iPAQ is getting closer and can be used outdoors, but why can't we get higher resolution displays (full VGA) with 24-bit color?

[Ed Hansberry]

Yeah, we'll definitely look at what Sony does for the sake of diligence if nothing else. Personally though, my decision is PPCPE vs. Smartphone vs. Bluetooth combo.

Any thoughts? Our priorities haven't been totally defined yet as we're early in the project, but I believe our priorities would be:
1. Email (wireless)
2. Phone
3. PIM

Sounds like you've tried just about everything that's out there. What would you suggest?
With those priorities, I'd be all over a Pocket PC Phone Edition device coupled with Mobile Information Server or Exchange 2003 (MIS built in) in the back room. Is VoiceStream/T-Mobile and option for you?

[Jeff Rutledge]

Is VoiceStream/T-Mobile and option for you?

Soon. It just became available for pre-order from handheldcanada.com. That's the device I'm trying to get a hold of. We'll see if I get my way though. There are a lot of RIM users at our National office. We also have a strong relationship with Compaq so we might choose to wait and see the new iPAQ's too. Who knows.

Either way, thanks for your advice. I'm sure I'll seek it again. I seem to jump the fence every couple of days as to which solution looks good for us.

[Ed Hansberry]

I seem to jump the fence every couple of days as to which solution looks good for us.

deep echo voice

You will not jump the fence any longer.

Pocket PC is your solution

Pocket PC is your solution :wink:

[Jeff Rutledge]

Pocket PC is my solution.

Pocket PC is my solution.

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

[Jeff Rutledge]

Well, I've taken the first step. I just ordered a T68i from www.handheldcanada.com.

I would have preferred to try out the T-Mobile, but for the purposes of this project, the BT solution makes sense as the next thing to test. Plus I've already got a BT multiport for my Evo N600c, an iPAQ 3870 and a Palm m515 with BT card. I went ahead and got the headset too.

I'm sure I'll try the T-mobile down the road. Or maybe the new iPAQ if they're out by then.

I'm heading out for a 3 week vacation (getting married, actually) so I probably won't see the phone until I get back. I'll let you know how I make out once I start using it though.

Thanks again.

[Jason Dunn]

I'm heading out for a 3 week vacation (getting married, actually)...

Congratulations!! :D

[Jeff Rutledge]

I'm heading out for a 3 week vacation (getting married, actually)...

Congratulations!! :D

Thanks. It's hard to believe it's almost time. It seems like yesterday we got engaged (actually over a year ago). But next weekend is it, then Vegas for the honeymoon, then it's all over. Except the bills of course. 8O 8O (Just kidding. I have no doubt that it will be worth every penny.)

On a side note: did anyone else notice the T-Mobile has been removed from handheldcanada.com? I just tried to show it to someone and it was gone from the main page. Clicking Handhelds, then T-Mobile brings up a blank page.

I wonder if they've changed their minds or are no longer able to offer it. Or maybe it's just a quick web-maintenance issue. I hope it's the latter.

[Jeff Rutledge]

Well, I'm back. Firstly, the wedding was great. Honeymoon was great too (Vegas!).

Sure enough, my T68 was waiting for me upon my return. I actually ended up going with a T68 upgraded to T68i. It was about $100 cheaper and I liked the color better (I personally find the icy blue a little girly :D ).

Anyways, I can now dial my T68 with my Palm m515, but can't get WAP working yet (truthfully, it's not a priority as I don't really enjoy working with the Palm as much). What I am enjoying is the iPAQ integration. I took someone's advice from this board and purchased Running Voice GSM 2.0 (used an affiliate link of course 8) ) which is a great program. Once my Ericsson BT headset arrives tomorrow I should be perfectly setup. Until then, I'm content dialing my phone from my contact list, surfing the web via GPRS and getting my email in near-RIM fashion. By that I mean that I'm using Symmetry Pro (www.infowave.com) to check my corporate email every 15 minutes. It automatically powers on the unit, connects via the T68 and checks my mail. Pretty cool stuff actually.

The biggest thing I've noticed is the difference in power consumption. I have a 802.11b WAP at home and use the PC Sleeve with my Linksys card. The sleeve is dead before I go to bed every night and the iPAQ is down to about 40% (typical use; well, typical for me anyways). Compare this to using Bluetooth: the power bar barely moved. I don't think I even hit 80%.

I don't know how the T-Mobile compares, but this setup should keep my busy for a little while anyways.

Thanks again for everyone's advice. That's probably the main reason I am on this board so much.