Pocket PC OEMs talking to Palm?

[Jason Dunn]

<a href="http://news.com.com/1601-2-949843.html">http://news.com.com/1601-2-949843.html</a><br /><br />Sounds like FUD to me, but David Nagel (head burrito at PalmSource) claims that all of the Pocket PC OEMs have been talking to PalmSource about creating devices based on their OS. I find it a little hard to believe that Dell is talking to Palm while prepping to release their own Pocket PC. It's quite possible that Dell had a meeting with Palm months ago, Palm did an OS 5 demo, and Dell said "Ok, seriously, what can it REALLY do?". The interview is interesting, if only to see where PalmSource's headspace is at. There's a little too much "I can neither confirm nor deny" going on to make it a riveting interview - I learned more about the journalists based on their questions than I did about PalmSource. Source: Foo Fighter

[Brian K]

Here's an interesting thought I've had ever since I first heard of OS5 and ARM processors...

What's to keep a company from offering OS5 OR PocketPC on any specific ARM hardware? Or BOTH? What hardware differences would have to be overcome?

It would be interesting to have the option to purchase an OS5 Ipaq, or OS5 Toshiba e740...

Brian K

[scottmag]

Remember that some of these same companies have testified in the USDOJ case that they are bullied by Microsoft. Would it really be surprising if they were entertaining the idea of also producing devices running PalmOS instead of remaining so closely tied to another Microsoft OS? Wasn't it mentioned here that Toshiba initially approached Palm about a license and was rebuffed? (I read it somewhere recently.)

I guess it does look like FUD, but I have a hard time believing that a company like Palm could actually wield FUD against Microsoft. I picture a camper fending off a bear with a twig.

I wouldn't worry so much about any of the current hardware producers abandoning the platform, in favor of PalmOS or for any other reason, considering the investments they must have made by now. They are putting out great devices and probably have less fear of becoming the next Velo - the best device on an abandoned platform.

Scott

[Charles Pickrell]

Palm can weild FUD. They seem to have some sort of mind control over the media. When Palm does something relatively minor everyone has articles written up about it and how it will change the PDA market completely. Meanwhile Microsoft releases a major upgrade to Pocket PC to allow the Pocket PC to also be a telephone and you barely get a twitter. Media is really biased towards Palm.

Charles

[Dave Conger]

I realize Acer isn't exactly a big name in the US for PDA's, if there marketing technique is any indication of what other companies might be considering, we could see some strickly PPC companies pick up a Palm OS device or two (though in Acers case they are started with Palm and picked up PPC). I think it is a good marketing idea. Sell people that are think Palm OS devices are the only PDA's in the world, then slip them the idea that if they actually want to be able to do something more then just contacts, change the to their brand of Pocket PC.

[BoyWithPockets]

I agree. But there too much PocketPC bias on this site, not that I'm complaining it is called "PocketPCthoughts".

Just ignore the media, most of the time they don't even understand the technology they are reporting. PalmOS and PocketPC both have their place on the marketplace.

I like the idea of being able to buy a device from Sony/Toshiba/whoever and choose to run PalmOS, LinuxPDA or PocketPC (or whatever Microsoft calls it today). Frankly I don't want either Palm or PocketPC to die.

[Jason Dunn]

I agree. But there too much PocketPC bias on this site, not that I'm complaining it is called "PocketPCthoughts".

Who are you agreeing with? You're the first person to say it. :razzing: But I'm glad you realize that it's a Pocket PC site, and that IS our bias. :D

[JonnoB]

Timing sometimes can create humorous conditions. I read comments from other visitors to this site and went on to watch the video... and then I got a Microsoft commercial. I found it funny.

[pt]

this was a pretty good interview, the folks a cnet asked some really good questions.

cheers,
pt

[roberto_torres]

I think it is a good marketing idea. Sell people that are think Palm OS devices are the only PDA's in the world, then slip them the idea that if they actually want to be able to do something more then just contacts, change the to their brand of Pocket PC.

I know this is a PPC only site and about your bias, but people here underestimating the palm OS and bashing it with invalid arguments, saying that Palm OS can only do basic PIM. Some Palm OS handheld even surpass the PPC in features.

Take for example the Clie NR 70V and its specs compared to PPC:

Resolution Clie(320x480) PPC (240x320)
MP3 player Clie (hardware with Yamaha chip) PPC(Software)
Built in cammera Clie(YES) PPC(NO)
Keyboard Clie(YES) PPC(NO)

Also Clies can syncronize word documents without loosing the formatting (and yes the software is included free). And there is nothing cooler than watching 320x480 widescreen video on the clie with the free Kinoma player. Also consider that OS 5 will surpass all of the clie features and is able to run on all ARM 7 processors including Xscale.

Please consider that some of this sites visitors use more than one OS and are not Palm OS haters. Also I recommend you that the best way to promore one OS is to talk about its features and not to critizice other OSs with invalid arguments (take a tip from politics).

When people keep saying that Palm OS handheld are filofax machines it is like the when the Linux people keep saying that Windows XP crashes all the time, when in fact Windows XP is as stable (if not more) as Linux.

My thougts

A Palm OS and PPC user.

[GregWard]

Of course they're all talking to PalmSource - why on earth wouldn't they? I would - if I were them! Talking and doing are two different things though.

I thought the point he made about none of the reporters using any form of pda was interesting! Heh - I'm an expert - what did you call that thing again? :?

[Ed Hansberry]

Oh good grief. I am listening to it and they claim 82-83% marketshare. Yeah, if you count the old Palm Pilot, Palm III and dead visors. :roll: This guy is worse than yankowski. Foo - need a babling nagle avatar!

[mookie123]

Roberto ,

you seems to imply that the features you mention are possible to be had in any single unit of Palm. That is the problem isn't it? Hence the idea that Palm is ony good for Pim or simple app.

take NR, yes it has built in camera, keyboard and big screen. but you will not ever able to add peripheral to it. Be it wireless, CF peripherals, etc. not even standart folding keyboard

take the lowly iPAQ, you can go to walmart, get a $15 clip on keyboard, get a $40 toy digital camera with CF, and voila.......the iPAQ is matching the item you mention for the NR except of the half VGA screen.

now even if you go to low end toshiba E310, which occasionally can be bought for half of NR, you still can play MP3, movie, or have a standard SD slot camera/peripheral.

That is in contrast to Palm, which very hard to extend and interchange peripheral between brands. So a BT SD stick from m500 will never work on Clie or Handspring etc... But that same BT sd will work on any model of PPC. Whatever hardware that come with NR is set and cannot be added.

bottom line, the impression of capability you trying to convey as standart are only available on NR ! One and only model.

while on PPC they are available on every units if not rather trivial peripheral addition.

Let's skip the mythological OS 5.0 abilities, or obviously what you dont' know about pocket office format conversion. :roll:

[Ed Hansberry]

Take for example the Clie NR 70V and its specs compared to PPC:

Resolution Clie(320x480) PPC (240x320)
MP3 player Clie (hardware with Yamaha chip) PPC(Software)
Built in cammera Clie(YES) PPC(NO)
Keyboard Clie(YES) PPC(NO)
Sound Recording Clie(NO) PPC(YES)
Terminal Server Client Clie(NO) PPC(YES)
External foldable full size keyboard Clie(NO) PPC(YES)
WiFi Card Clie(NO) PPC(YES)
Bluetooth integrated or via CF card Clie(NO) PPC(YES)
Plain old modem card Clie(NO) PPC(YES)
64MB RAM Clie(NO) PPC(YES)
Usable card storage with no file system hacks Clie(NO) PPC(YES)
Multitasking Clie(NO) PPC(YES)
Audible Content Clie(NO) PPC(YES)
Custom fonts Clie(NO) PPC(YES)
etc.

And OS5 will fix few of those. It especially WON'T fix multitasking. That is saved for OS6, or so they say.

[jdhill]

OK, let's not allow this to degenerate into the Palm OS vs. Pocket PC (round 1,423).

Both OS's have their advantages and disadvantages. It really depends on what your needs are. I bought my son a Palm m100 because that met his needs. I use a Pocket PC because that meets my needs.

Let the OS wars continue in some other forum. We try to be a little friendlier and light-hearted around here. (Ed, don't make me take you out back and spank you !!! :wink: )

[JonnoB]

And OS5 will fix few of those. It especially WON'T fix multitasking. That is saved for OS6, or so they say.

The usefullness in multitasking is underestimated even today. I remember in my Amiga days how my fellow Amigans would talk down the Mac, Windows/DOS, and other operating systems because none had a pre-emptive multi-tasking OS. The simplicity of the PalmOS through single-tasking has been heralded as being kind to useability, but it will also cause its eventual minimalization if OS6 does not happen soon.

[Ed Hansberry]

The usefullness in multitasking is underestimated even today.
I was messing around on my t68 today and while GPRSing around got an SMS. The system was able to keep up with where I was while I replied to the SMS message. The phone multitasks for pete's sake! It is so second nature for me I expected it, but it didn't hit me until this thread tonight that it is such an issue with Palm OS. I agree, if OS 6 isn't out soon after 5, PalmSource will have serious problems.

[HR]

Resolution Clie(320x480) PPC (240x320)
MP3 player Clie (hardware with Yamaha chip) PPC(Software)
Built in cammera Clie(YES) PPC(NO)
Keyboard Clie(YES) PPC(NO)Well, not exactly:

Resolution Clie(320x480) PPC (240x320)
I'll give you half a point. Yes, the screen is fabulous and hi-res, but this is proprietary for Sony. Sony had to write applications with hacks in them to take advantage of the resolution. Go to the store and get standard palm software and you are back in 160x160 territory on the NR.

MP3 player Clie (hardware with Yamaha chip) PPC(Software)
Well, PPC scores here for the reason that it is in software. Sony added external MP3 hardware and firmware because the standard palm platform cannot support it. PPC can do what *real* powerful computers do, ie get MP3 in software. This way you can get updates whenever standards change or are replaced altogether. Imagine being stuck with IE2.2 all your life…

Built in cammera Clie(YES) PPC(NO)
OK, I'll give you that, but then go read the huge list of features that PPC has and Palm doesn’t.

Keyboard Clie
This is not a feature but a preference. Some like tinny winny keyboards some don't. I can even further claim that this is due to the limitation of Graffiti. PPC has a *real* handwriting recognition and allows you a superior use of the pen input.