iPod for Windows

[Jason Dunn]

<a href="http://www.apple.com/ipod/">http://www.apple.com/ipod/</a><br /><br />Those who know me are well aware of my dislike for most things Apple, but I give credit where credit is due: the iPod is a killer digital audio player. It continues to amaze me that most companies just don't "get" it. They release butt-ugly players that are <a href="http://www.dlink.com/products/multimedia/dmphd610/">too big, too bulky, and constrained by USB 1.0 speeds</a>. And they wonder why the iPod was successful? Duh. Apple hit a home run with this device, and now they're taking their baseball bat to the opposing teams making players for the Windows market. I wish them all the best. Smack one outta' the park for me Jobsey! The new iPod, now available in 5, 10, and 20 gig models, will now work on Windows platforms. They've also added calendar support, making it a lite PIM device. And <a href="http://www.apple.com/ical/"> when combined with their new SyncML-based iCal solution</a>, you can share your calendar information over the web then sync it down to your &lt;cough cough> Palm or iPod. The good news here for Mac users is that since iCal will use SyncML, if someone writes a SyncML client for the Pocket PC, you might be in business. Note to the entire PC industry, including Microsoft: make me proud and innovate faster.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/ipod.jpg" />

[Foo Fighter]

Woohoo!!! :D

$299 for an iPod! It's about time Apple lowered the price. Now I'm torn between buying the PC or Mac version of the iPod? :?

[ThomasC22]

I'm surprised you don't like Apple Jason, being a self-described "Hardware Guy" and all :)

As for the iPod, I think their playing things very well so far. Think about it, they kept the iPod "Mac-Only" in order to draw people to the Mac. Then, when equivalent products started to show up for the PC (Nomad Jukebox 3 for example) they jump to the PC.

Hopefully, for them atleast, they can persuade most PC buyers to buy the iPod over the competition due to its name recognition. Then, maybe later on down the line, people will be more inclined to buy an Apple computer because at least one more of their peripherals works with it.

Now if they would only release an, authorized, ActiveSync for the PocketPC :wink:

[michael]

Now if only it supported WMA instead of just MP3....

[dwprice]

Something else to carry around? Why not get a PPC and a few giant CF's with music mixes on them? I never got through the whole CD-R of MP3's I burned for a half day of driving to a campsite.

If you're interested in how the iPod came to be, see this link:

http://www.designchain.com/coverstory.asp?issue=summer02

A COTS product designed by Apple from the outside in.

[ThomasC22]

Something else to carry around? Why not get a PPC and a few giant CF's with music mixes on them? I never got through the whole CD-R of MP3's I burned for a half day of driving to a campsite.


Mainly, at least for me, battery life is the issue. Not only can the PPC not hold a candle to the iPod in this respect but for me, I'd rather not take the chance of having no access to my Contacts because I spent too much time listening to my music :onfire:

[Jason Dunn]

http://www.designchain.com/coverstory.asp?issue=summer02

That was a great read - thanks for posting!

[Jason Dunn]

Not only can the PPC not hold a candle to the iPod in this respect but for me

How long can the iPod player audio for?

[Foo Fighter]

Something else to carry around? Why not get a PPC and a few giant CF's with music mixes on them?

No offense, but the iPaq (or any PDA) is a poor MP3 solution compared to a dedicated MP3 player...especially the iPod. :roll:

[alex_kac]

10 hrs straight.

[Jason Dunn]

Now if only it supported WMA instead of just MP3....

Doubt that's going to happen - it's that whole Jobs hates Gates thing...I'm still shocked they made a Windows version. It must have taken a HELL of a lot of convincing for Jobs to allow this. :2gunfire:

[Foo Fighter]

I'm surprised you don't like Apple Jason, being a self-described "Hardware Guy" and all :)

No kidding. How can you not like the iPod. Even my Avatar likes Apple's products. Just look at that smile on old Carl's face. :wink:

[medic119]

I have been using my 5GB iPod with Windows for months.
I use MediaFour's Xplay program which is interfaces the iPod to the windows desktop just like iTunes does on the mac. Shows up as a hard drive and everything. Just drag and drop. Wonderful.
It even has a Media Player Plugin to transfer mp3s to the ipod that way too (I guess for DRM)

I would bet my paycheck the Apple has worked out some kind of deal with MediaFour to bundle Xplay with new iPods.

I should have waited a few months to pick mine up.. ARRGH!!!
I want those remote headphones too!
I hope they release a firmware update for older iPods.

[djl]

Something else to carry around? Why not get a PPC and a few giant CF's with music mixes on them?

No offense, but the iPaq (or any PDA) is a poor MP3 solution compared to a dedicated MP3 player...especially the iPod. :roll:

I definately agree. I'd much rather carry a separate device for mp3s than use my iPAQ. One reason: I'm usually active when carrying an mp3 player. Who wants to risk dropping the iPAQ from 6 feet while on a ladder painting the kitchen?

By the way, it's good to see that Apple has finally gotten around to introducing something larger than 5 gb or 10 gb. Even so, I still think the iPOD is radically overpriced. Yes, the other hard drive mp3 players are ugly, but who cares? Half the time it's in my pocket or in a backpack, so nobody sees it anyway. My design dollars (vanity dollars) are better spent on my Pocket PCs. Give the Archos Recorder a chance (I got the 20 gb Recorder for less than $300 -- $200 cheaper than the iPOD). It's killer, especially with the new USB 2.

My two cents.

[dwprice]

At least the iPaq is completely solid state. You'd rather drop your overpriced iPod with spinning Toshiba harddrives? As for time... with the screen toggle and Jimmy's Overclock underclocking, there's plenty of listening time. I've even forgotten about the thing and travelled on the bus and wandered about town. It's surprising just how long it lasted.

[Janak Parekh]

A COTS product designed by Apple from the outside in.
Yup, this is happening more and more frequently. Witness the relationship between Compaq and HTC in the design of the iPaq.

BTW, I use my iPaq for MP3's every day. While it is a workable solution, it's just way too clumsy. I was looking at the iPod as a solution where I can whip the device out of my pocket and choose a new playlist without having to interact with a stylus. Being in NYC, and in the subways or the street all the time, this is a significant hassle.

Even better is the little headphone remote controls that I now see are finally available. Does anyone know if such a thing exists/will exist for iPaqs? The Sony units did that right the first time.

--bdj

[Marcel_Proust]

:?:
Could someone comment on the sound quality of this little marvel?

[oom]

I would bet my paycheck the Apple has worked out some kind of deal with MediaFour to bundle Xplay with new iPods.

the article on apple.com mentions musicmatch jukebox pro.

send checks to my address in my profile.

oom

[TypeMRT]

I would bet my paycheck the Apple has worked out some kind of deal with MediaFour to bundle Xplay with new iPods.


:!: Apple bundles MusicMatch Plus with the iPod for Windows.

[medic119]

the article on apple.com mentions musicmatch jukebox pro.
send checks to my address in my profile.
oom
:lol:
I saw that when I read the article, but since the iPod uses a different filesystem than windows (ie mac filesystem) which I found when reading the MediaFour site, I bet they have something to do with a musicmatch plugin or something. It just seems funny to me that MediaFour releases Xplay 1.0 and suddenly Apple exclaims it now has windows functionality.

MediaFour specializes in Mac&lt;->PC conversions. They have a way for windows to read mac drive natively, etc, some of which was built into Xplay so the PC could read the iPod as a harddrive and navigate the filesystem.

[Foo Fighter]

:?:
Could someone comment on the sound quality of this little marvel?

Absolutely awesome!!! The iPod is one hell of a media player. It has won just about every editor's choice award in existence. 8O

[st63z]

So the Toshiba 1.8" drives come in 20GB now? Is it something a bit thicker (that would necessitate a PC Card Type III)?

You know, I've often wanted a PPC to integrate one of these 1.8" HDDs. It would be a bit thicker and require a bigger battery, but think about the convenience of always having 20GB there. I would hope though that an integrated solution with today's technology would be something a lot thinner than a plain ol' iPAQ with PC Card sleeve... Even that old PPC with the built-in PC Card slot (I forget name) was pretty slim. An integrated 1.8" wouldn't take as much space as a full fledged PC Card slot, and today's technology is quite a bit more advanced than back then (think how current models can fit A LOT of slots, chipsets, etc, into slim form factors).

[Janak Parekh]

So the Toshiba 1.8" drives come in 20GB now? Is it something a bit thicker (that would necessitate a PC Card Type III)?
Note that the 20GB iPod is a bit thicker than the other ones. We'll find out shortly, when someone unpacks it, what's inside.

You know, I've often wanted a PPC to integrate one of these 1.8" HDDs. It would be a bit thicker and require a bigger battery, but think about the convenience of always having 20GB there.
I think the main problem with this is the current battery technologies in PPC's. Once they get to the next-generation batteries, I agree - it would be a great idea. Integrate a microdrive or something :)

On the flip side, though, having a solid-state unit as your organizer is nice -- no moving parts to fail.

--bdj

[dwprice]

Musicmatch.com has a free version of the s/w. You can also download a free plugin for PocketPC's to download playlists.

[Jason Dunn]

No kidding. How can you not like the iPod.

Uh...re-read my post. I *do* like the iPod. Why not read the post, THEN comment on it, instead of reacing for the REPLY button after you read the first six words... :D

[Jason Dunn]

10 hrs straight.

A fully-charged HP Jornada 565 can play a looping 64 kbps WMA audio file off a 48 meg Sandisk CompactFlash card for 10.8 hours.

So...what point is someone trying to prove here? :roll:

[carlosgp]

I wish to break a lance for the Archos too. iPod is great but the price is unreasonable. Archos recorder 20 may be uglier, but it has 20 Gb, you can change its standard hard disk and encodes mp3 on the fly. And it's a lot cheaper. Give it a try.

[Foo Fighter]

Why not read the post, THEN comment on it, instead of reacing for the REPLY button after you read the first six words... :D

Where's the fun in that? :P

[ijablokov]

My order's in... Apple has been hitting home runs w/ their hardware designs lately; imagine an Apple-branded PocketPC [not going to happen, ever] (or PalmOS 5-6 device)... The lesson the industry needs to learn from them is a user instead of feature first perspective.

Now they're working on their handwriting recoginition engine and their competitor to Microsoft's Tablet PC should be interesting...

[dwprice]

Re playlist generation, management, etc for PPC see the link below:

http://www.ceng.com/CEPlaylist/description.asp

There's a free download at Tucows so I tried it. Ran it and it scanned my MP3s and WMA files and created a playlist. You can play files right out of the list. It'll gather all your songs on startup. Then you can select by long or album and play them direct or create a playlist.

[Kre]

...Yes, the other hard drive mp3 players are ugly, but who cares?...

Well, Im one who cares. The Ipod is gorgeous. The new remote and Firewire cover are very nice. I like the case they have, too. They thought it all out thoroughly, which is refreshing. And I cannot wait to get my hands on one of these!

[Janak Parekh]

A fully-charged HP Jornada 565 can play a looping 64 kbps WMA audio file off a 48 meg Sandisk CompactFlash card for 10.8 hours.

So...what point is someone trying to prove here? :roll:
10 hours including hard drive accesses. Try that with a Microdrive--trust me, even with caching, you won't get anywhere near that. The iPod has one sweet battery :) (In the meantime, I got a CF+ iPaq battery to mitigate the hard drive power requirements, but that makes the iPaq a bit too thick, so I now switch between extra battery and no extra battery...)

--bdj

[Janak Parekh]

:snipersmile: :scatter:
Hmm, the juxtaposition of these two looks pretty cool at times.

(talk about being off-topic :wink: ... Jason, these smilies have absolutely captured all our attention...)

--bdj

[Kre]

A fully-charged HP Jornada 565 can play a looping 64 kbps WMA audio file off a 48 meg Sandisk CompactFlash card for 10.8 hours.

So...what point is someone trying to prove here? :roll:
10 hours including hard drive accesses. Try that with a Microdrive--trust me, even with caching, you won't get anywhere near that. The iPod has one sweet battery :) (In the meantime, I got a CF+ iPaq battery to mitigate the hard drive power requirements, but that makes the iPaq a bit too thick, so I now switch between extra battery and no extra battery...)

--bdj

I have to agree with this. Not to mention, the only way youre going to get that kind of run time out of a handheld is if the backlighting is also off. The Ipod is a nice piece of equipment with great battery life. This is the kind of battery life handhelds need to have when going at full steam with the backlight on superbright.

[Kre]

:snipersmile: :scatter:
Hmm, the juxtaposition of these two looks pretty cool at times.

--bdj

Yeah, I noticed that before. Cool, huh?

How about... :2gunfire: :onfire:

Or... :usa :snipersmile: Osama in the butt

Or... :drinking: :pukeface:

Or... :sleeping: :morning:

[klinux]

It's simple - you cannot compare audio quality of any PPC to iPod (personally I encode at 160kbps) just like you cannot compare the calendar feature of iPod to PPC.

[Janak Parekh]

It's simple - you cannot compare audio quality of any PPC to iPod (personally I encode at 160kbps) just like you cannot compare the calendar feature of iPod to PPC.
Now this I'm not so sure about. My iPaq 3870 has superb audio, and I've heard from numerous sources that the iPaq 38xx and 39xx units have the best audio of any PPC. I rip at 160kbps, VBR, and it sounds fantastic on speakers or headphones. Of course, you don't have as much space to work with ;)

--bdj

p.s. Kre, great observations on the emoticons. See what Jason's done to us? :D

[Take1]

The iPAQ does better than 95% of the dedicated .mp3 players out on the market in terms of fidelity and loudness. I had no desire to even CONSIDER an iPOD with the iPAQ already doing a wonderful job. If you listen to 6+ hours of .mp3 music through headphones a day, then you are either: 1. A student, 2. unemployed or 3. both 1 & 2. 3 hours is my limit and the iPAQ does the job just fine.

People who make staements about PPC not being as good as dedicated .mp3 players are incorrect -- because they have not used an iPAQ 38xx or 39xx series. If you've tried an HP, Toshiba e-310, or Casio then, yes, a dedicated .mp3 player is much better.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Hey Kre, I think you are verging on emoticon abuse! :wink:

[Jason Dunn]

10 hours including hard drive accesses. Try that with a Microdrive--trust me, even with caching, you won't get anywhere near that. The iPod has one sweet battery :)

I'm not disputing that the iPod has a nice battery, but it's using inferior storage technology from a purely power-drain standpoint. The Pocket PC is able to use memory cards, which are much easier on the battery, and my point was that the resulting playback time is about the same. The Pocket PC is not as inferior in terms of power as some people here are inferring. The iPod has the sheer storage factor, so of course it makes a better MP3 player from a "carry all your music with you" standpoint, but I wanted to point out that if you have 50 MP3s, each device will play them for roughly the same amount of time. :D

[Janak Parekh]

I'm not disputing that the iPod has a nice battery, but it's using inferior storage technology from a purely power-drain standpoint.
Agreed. The iPod is a "compromise" technology to get 20GB into a Walkman-sized unit. At this time, there's really no other choice if you want to put your entire MP3 collection into a device this size. It's really nice to have capacity; with my 1GB MD, I can put 15 or so albums on the unit. I drool at the prospects of carrying all my music with me: no more choosing!

I wanted to point out that if you have 50 MP3s, each device will play them for roughly the same amount of time. :D
But if you have 500 MP3's... :) Seriously, and this is also in response to Take1, I do consulting work, which makes me sit in noisy server rooms for 6 hours at a stretch, by myself (it does pay well, admittedly). The CF+ pack for my iPaq has been a great companion, but being able to listen to a large amount of music from a very large variety is tempting. I do fully concur with Take1 about the iPaq's audio quality, and that's one of the reasons I am happy with my 3870 purchase overall.

In any case: I'm all for convergence myself, but the technology in separate units is still superior for the moment. I had one of the original smartphones (the pdQ), for example, but it was too much a combination of mediocre components. I'd say that the SE P800, the Wallaby, and the new Kyocera 7135 is the beginning of a new "best-of-breed" smartphone, but even then you don't get the storage capacity yet due to flash memory limitations.

How about that for a long-winded post? ;)

--bdj

[Jason Dunn]

I drool at the prospects of carrying all my music with me: no more choosing!

I too think that's very cool, but I have 11,000 MP3s, so I would need a MUCH bigger hard drive. :-) So, for me, I have to make a choice anyway.

But please, don't get me wrong, I think the iPod ROCKS and other MP3 players could learn a LOT from it. For my mobile MP3/WMA needs, my Pocket PC does the trick. But since I'm sitting at my desk, nothing beats my Klipsch speakers. Mmm. Klipsch. 8)

[Foo Fighter]

...I think the iPod ROCKS and other MP3 players could learn a LOT from it.

What really makes the iPod revolutionary is that it is the first drive based MP3 player tiny enough to fit in your pocket and go with you everywhere. Other competing products are monstrous by comparison. The Archos and Rio Riot offer great features and plenty of storage space...but they are just too damn big. And I can't even begin to imagine how people carry a CD/MP3 player.

The iPod is roughly the same size as a deck of cards. And the price is now more affordable.

For my mobile MP3/WMA needs, my Pocket PC does the trick.

While I don't believe PDAs will ever compete with purpose built media devices like the iPod...I do believe they (and Cell Phones) will one day replace Flash memory based MP3 players like the Rio.

[Janak Parekh]

I too think that's very cool, but I have 11,000 MP3s, so I would need a MUCH bigger hard drive. :-) So, for me, I have to make a choice anyway.
Wow, that's a lot of mp3's. 8) At the rate these technologies are going, though, I wouldn't be surprised to see a 40GB unit in the very near future.

But please, don't get me wrong, I think the iPod ROCKS and other MP3 players could learn a LOT from it.
Are you saying we've been arguing about nothing all this time? :lol:

--bdj

[Jonathon Watkins]

Are you saying we've been arguing about nothing all this time? :lol:

As always :wink:

I have 25Gb of Mp3s - and am waiting to get a 1Gb CF card in a few months. That combined with MP3 Pro should enable me to carry a few more albums around with me (when I get my LOOX :D). I want all-in-one personally - much handier.

[Kre]

Hey Kre, I think you are verging on emoticon abuse! :wink:

Yeah, but its so much fun!

:2gunfire: :onfire:

[Jason Dunn]

That combined with MP3 Pro should enable me to carry a few more albums around with me (when I get my LOOX :D).

I'm curious why you mention MP3Pro in the same sentence as a Pocket PC - there is no MP3Pro player for the Pocket PC yet, is there? And without a special player, you get crappy sounding audio... :-)

[klinux]

I'm not disputing that the iPod has a nice battery, but it's using inferior storage technology from a purely power-drain standpoint.

Just for the sake of argument, one can also argue that PPC is using an inferior display technology from a purely power-drain standpoint, too. But I do agree that it is a moot point as no one listens to that many hours of MP3 continuously!