AT&T Wireless and VoiceStream to merge?

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Symbol=US:AWE&Feed=RTR&Date=20020710&ID=1765607">http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Symbol=US:AWE&Feed=RTR&Date=20020710&ID=1765607</a><br /><br />"VoiceStream Wireless, controlled by Deutsche Telekom AG , is in talks to merge with AT&T Wireless Services Inc.(AWE). a move that would create the second largest cellular phone company in the U.S, according to a Wall Street Journal report."<br /><br />This can only be good news for the US. The bigger these things get, the less roaming we have and the more coverage we have. By 2010, we in the US will be enjoying what Europe has enjoyed sonce cell phones were invented. It would tickle me to death if SprintPCS and Verizon merged too, leaving two standards, GSM and CDMA, and three massive players, Verizon/Sprint, VoiceStream/AT&T and Cingular. Heck, I'd be happy if Cingular got their act together and killed off all of their TDMA networks.<br /><br />And can someone explain this to me? Verizon and SprintPCS are both CDMA. Why can I not be a SprintPCS customer roaming on a Verison digital network and not drop to an analog signal? Have I ever told you how much I hate the cellular networks in the US?

[friedmanj]

Outside of the simple equation "fewer competitors means less innovation" there is the larger question of whether it's good for the US to have a German Governemtnt backed cell hpne provider as largest in the US. Its great if it is any privately owned player, but not a government sponsored/supported solution.

Probably not the right venue for my rant, but true none the less.

[pradike]

:lol: AMEN, AMEN, & AMEN.

While I actually really like my SprintPCS (used now in 3 states of residency over the past 6 years), you are right on target with your observations.

The minute you go to Asia or Europe - they are SOOOOOOOO much ahead of the US in this area its not funny - better & more sophisticated phones, better service, better rates & plans, and better access.

I use my SprintPCS regularly for both digital phone service & to have my Ipaq access the WEB & e-mail (via Socket CF card - works great).

I believe that from a technology standpoint, a Sprint-Verizon merger would be tough to beat.

The regulatory requirements, basic fickle american consumers - who tend to look at the color of a phone first before function, and lack of competitive ingenuity by the providers are the three roadblocks at this time.

[don dre]

Whiel I think in some respects it is beneficial for these companies to not have to each build a network (thereby reducing costs), I'm afraid that Voicestream (DT), being the bigger player, will obscure AT & T's business model. I think AT & T is better run and their plans are certainly more attractive. the whole unltd wkd's thing for voicestream is just irritating. What about nights? I think I would consider switching to Verizon or Sprint if this happened. I love my At &T service and don't look forward to having it done the german way. I want 3G as much as the next guy but I don't want to have to pay a lot for it.

[Janak Parekh]

And can someone explain this to me? Verizon and SprintPCS are both CDMA. Why can I not be a SprintPCS customer roaming on a Verison digital network and not drop to an analog signal? Have I ever told you how much I hate the cellular networks in the US?
There are two reasons why Sprint PCS -> Verizon is complicated (the other direction has already been done, BTW, and new Verizon plans include select SPCS roaming):

1. Most of SPCS's are 1900MHz-only. This was a conscious decision on their part, but long-term, it's problematic. Most of Verizon's territory is 800MHz CDMA digital, and so the SPCS phones can't pick it up. A few SPCS phones are triband (the ancient Nokia 6185 and the Kyo 6135 come tomind) and can pick up a Verizon digital signal.

2. AFAIK, Verizon & SPCS haven't pursued digital roaming aggressively for SPCS -> Verizon roaming (at least, reliably). They do have analog-network agreements that are pretty robust, but as you point out, this is far from ideal.

Basically, this is really more a problem with the way SPCS is dealing with the issue... I'm sure Verizon is to fault somewhere, along-the-lines, too--but if you want the biggest coverage, EdH, you really should be considering either Verizon or AT&T (at least, for now).

BTW, TDMA is dying. It will be turned off in 5-10 years (my guess). There will be only CDMA & GSM in the US, and you'll see roaming and coverage start to improve dramatically. It's only a matter of time (and cooperation) at this point. (Number mobility wouldn't hurt either -- we're working on that, albeit slowly.)

--bdj

[JonathanWardRogers]

There are a few bright stars in the dismal US cellular skies. For example: Surewest Wireless (http://www.surewestwireless.com/) offers 43800 anytime minutes a month (yes, that's unlimited) incoming and outgoing calls, 10 cents a minute for long distance, free calling to any 916, 530 and 209 area code for just 33 USD a month. It may not be the greatest cell phone package, but it is a perfect replacement for a home phone, and I get 24/7 wireless (14.4kbps) data access to boot!

Jon

[MobileAGBell]

It was also reported a couple of months ago that Cingular may buy AT&T Wireless. Since Cingular and AT&T Wireless are both TDMA shops, and AT&T has begun rolling out their GSM network while Cingular has not (at least in the midwest), that marriage seemed to me to be a bit more logical.

It's also my belief that wireless carriers are dragging their feet on the number portability issue. I read somewhere that studies have shown that unhappy customers would change carriers more often if they could keep their number. And the carriers don't want to see the churn. So instead of working to improve the service, they work to delay number portabilty.

[Carlos]

This would only be a good merger if the AT&T management team and everyone involved with setting policy were ousted, and the VoiceStream people were left to run it properly. AT&T's customer service is dismal, and they play so many games with their calling plans. Now that all the analog carriers have digital in the major areas, giving them fairly seamless roaming across both with no roaming charges, there's no longer any reason for AT&T to exist.

[Scott R]

I was hoping that things would get more standardized with various talks of mergers and Cingular's switch to GSM. But with each step forward, they seem to also take one step back. A couple of months ago, there was an article on CNET about new GSM phones coming out which would be using a brand new GSM frequency. Ugh. The article cited over congestion of the current frequencies, so maybe the solution of converging to one digital cell standard isn't as doable, but I sure hope we get there some day.

Scott

[EricMCarson]

I'm afraid that Voicestream (DT), being the bigger player, will obscure AT & T's business model. I think AT & T is better run and their plans are certainly more attractive

I couldn't disagree more. Voicestream's management appears far more competent than AT&T's. How else can you explain AT&T's GSM networks that are on, kind of, sometimes, in only certain areas, and then, only for limited periods of time? AT&T changes their pricing plans all the time to try and squeeze dollars out of new subscribers and lock them into the ancient TDMA networks. Voicestream got it right with the GSM standard and introducing GPRS to the rest of us in the U.S. If, by attractive, you mean AT&T's plans are cheaper, yes, they are, but the company is in extremely precarious financial position because of that. Would you rather pay a little more and get a better standard (one that will be here past another 4 years) and get a company whose network will actually be on 4 years from now? Personally, I would. I give Voicestream the go ahead for full steam. Maybe this will eliminate AT&T from the U.S. forever (we can only hope).

[Ed Hansberry]

there was an article on CNET about new GSM phones coming out which would be using a brand new GSM frequency. Ugh.
Yeah, that's what we need. A new standard. :roll: You know what this is don't you? They keep inventing new stuff thinking they will take over the cellular communications and have a monopoly. It is desperate (and doomed) attempt at not becoming a dumb pipe.

[don dre]

ATTWS's financial position is not entirely dismal, no more so than most other carriers. I've never heard much good about Voicestream's ervice. I applaud them for bringing GSM to the US but their practice of skimming on the minutes really doesn't make it practical for those of us who use our cell as a primary phone. Verizon is a much better substitute and I really hate to think of switching to them. And yes, I do mind paying more for a better standard. what's the point of upgrading if it isn't economically feasible. I just can;t justify paying much more for a cell service (of coursemaybe Mr. Carson has a bigger budget). Perhaps we'll get lucky and the new company will take the best of each. More night minutes for Voicestream and better coverage for Voicestream. Personally, I've had fair success with ATT's customer service. Just keep calling until you get a canuck, they are usually helpful and friendly.

[Carlos]

I've been using a VoiceStream phone as my primary for a couple of years. About 9 months ago I told the landline company to bugger off altogether, and have no regrets or issues.

When I was an unfortunately user of AT&T for about six months, I had a number of service issues. Now, all companies have issues. I expect this from technology. But AT&T lied about it repeatedly, for several days. They cost me business, I sued them and won, and never looked back.

[Kre]

Cingular, AT&T, and Voicestream should all merge together into one huge beast... and what a nightmare of a process that would be, but still... and then kill off TDMA to focus only on GSM. Sprint and Verizon should merge as well. Then Id hope GSM would kick CDMAs ass, because CDMA will never exist in Europe and Asia. The fewer players we have in this country, the more likely and quickly we`ll move towards one standard. The standards soup has gotten old.

But of course, then you have NTT DoCoMo and their efforts to move their service over into the States. Oh, the humanity. Will it never end :?:

[Trade Wind]

Then Id hope GSM would kick CDMAs ass, because CDMA will never exist in Europe and Asia. The fewer players we have in this country, the more likely and quickly we`ll move towards one standard. The standards soup has gotten old.

But of course, then you have NTT DoCoMo and their efforts to move their service over into the States. Oh, the humanity. Will it never end :?:

Two points...

1.) There are 43.5 million CDMA-based subscribers in Asia. (http://www.cdg.org/world/region.asp?region=Asia+%2D+Pacific) Asia accounts for 36% of all CDMA subscribers worldwide. There are also 10 million (as of May '02) CDMA 2000 subscribers worldwide. (most of whom are using CDMA 2000 1xRTT) Just because CDMA isn't used in Europe does not mean it is the best standard to duplicate here in the Americas over the short or long term.

2.) NTT DoCoMo owns 16% of AT&T Wireless, and has invested $10 billion in the company. http://www.att.com/news/item/0,1847,3502,00.html Read that press release...talk about over hyping and under delivering! According to that press release, AT&T should be deploying a WCDMA network already. :lol:

[Kre]

Then Id hope GSM would kick CDMAs ass, because CDMA will never exist in Europe and Asia. The fewer players we have in this country, the more likely and quickly we`ll move towards one standard. The standards soup has gotten old.

But of course, then you have NTT DoCoMo and their efforts to move their service over into the States. Oh, the humanity. Will it never end :?:

Two points...

1.) There are 43.5 million CDMA-based subscribers in Asia. (http://www.cdg.org/world/region.asp?region=Asia+%2D+Pacific) Asia accounts for 36% of all CDMA subscribers worldwide. There are also 10 million (as of May '02) CDMA 2000 subscribers worldwide. (most of whom are using CDMA 2000 1xRTT) Just because CDMA isn't used in Europe does not mean it is the best standard to duplicate here in the Americas over the short or long term.

2.) NTT DoCoMo owns 16% of AT&T Wireless, and has invested $10 billion in the company. http://www.att.com/news/item/0,1847,3502,00.html Read that press release...talk about over hyping and under delivering! According to that press release, AT&T should be deploying a WCDMA network already. :lol:

Interesting. Im aware that CDMA exists in other parts of the world, even Asia and Australia, and who knows where else, but I had meant that it wont be the dominating standard in Europe or Asia... I should have been more clear with my words. My understanding is that Asia primarily uses GSM, but I suppose this could be wrong. But after your post, Im now wondering if Im under the wrong impression about some things, and just what is the dominating standard in the world. I think it would be interesting to know just what is used all over the world and what the percentages are. Does anyone know where to find this info?

I dont remember hearing that NTT owned part of AT&T, so Im not sure if I was ever aware of that, but thats interesting to know. Again, I tell ya... the humanity :!: What a mess it all is.

[Janak Parekh]

Cingular, AT&T, and Voicestream should all merge together into one huge beast... and what a nightmare of a process that would be, but still... and then kill off TDMA to focus only on GSM. Sprint and Verizon should merge as well. Then Id hope GSM would kick CDMAs ass, because CDMA will never exist in Europe and Asia. The fewer players we have in this country, the more likely and quickly we`ll move towards one standard. The standards soup has gotten old.
Not quite. Qualcomm has already stated that it should be possible to build dual-cdma2000 and wCDMA chipsets. Whether they will or not remains to be seen, but the entire world is moving to CDMA-based standards. It's a superior technology, overall.

--bdj

[Janak Parekh]

A couple of months ago, there was an article on CNET about new GSM phones coming out which would be using a brand new GSM frequency. Ugh.
This is absolutely happening: the GSM consortium approved GSM 850 (800MHz band) a couple months ago. Nokia has made at least one quad-band phone (800, 900, 1800, 1900), I believe. Yes, it sucks, but AT&T and Cingular own tons of 800MHz licenses in the US, so it was necessary.

You do know the 700MHz spectrum will be available in the US in the next 3-8 years, right?

--bdj

[Wojo]

I'm afraid that Voicestream (DT), being the bigger player, will obscure AT & T's business model. I think AT & T is better run and their plans are certainly more attractive

I couldn't disagree more. Voicestream's management appears far more competent than AT&T's.

I'm 100% on your side. AT&T has a horrible GSM Team. I've been an AT&T TDMA customer for years so I was quick to jump on the GSM side, especially when they offered me a T68. I was in heaven. UNTIL I received a letter, one month later, stating that my peak time (900mins) would be changed from 7am-8-pm to 6am-9pm and my Directory Assistance charge will be increased to 1.35 ea call. Luckily they gave me an out, a 20 day window to decide. Funny thing is that that 20 day window didn't give me a chance to test the new peak times. I guess they assumed that I have the time to analize my statement and figure out how many calls I placed within the two additional hours.

Also their tech support team didn't have a clue about accessing the internet via the T68. I was actually educating an upper level tech support person in their "Advanced Wireless Division". Sad very sad.

And you don't want me to start on their joke of a Voicemail system and a few other services in their GSM package. One word. "Crap"

Now VoiceStream on the other hand has been incredible. I have an unlocked T68i that happens to have a glitch. Their Data Specilalist were on the phone with me for at least 10 hours over a few days. These guys know what they're doing. We narrowed the problem down to the phone itself. They actually have 3 data specialist groups UK, Australia and US. Where AT&T gave up on helping me, due to their lack of knowledge, VoiceStream stepped up to the plate and helped even when they didn't have to. The T68 series isn't even in they product line. This is customer service :)

As for GSM calling packages VoiceStream blows AT&T away. I get 3000 anytime minutes for 59.99. AT&T doesn't even offer a anytime minute plan. Directory Assistance is .75 per call. Oh and they have a time stamp on their voicemail system. Do you know how frustrating it is when someone leaves a message and you don't have a clue when they left it. ARRGGHH.

VoiceStream is by far the better choice in the GSM line right now.

Stepping off my soap box now.