D&D Fantasy a Reality, Finally

[Jason Dunn]

<a href="http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,53352,00.html">http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,53352,00.html</a><br /><br />As an RPG fan myself, I was excited to learn of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004TSXC/jasonsego">Neverwinter Nights release</a> (affiliate link) - it's been in production for nearly four years! It's one thing to play a game, but it's quite another to create the story within the game itself. This is one game I'll definitely pick up!<br /><br />"The moment Bill Marcellino has been waiting years for finally came at 10:54 a.m. last Wednesday. Marcellino, a 35-year-old major in the Marine Corps reserves, has been leading adventurers through the fantasy role-playing world of Dungeons and Dragons since he was in the seventh grade at Milton Academy in Massachusetts. Like many D&amp;D addicts, Marcellino has turned again and again to computer clones of the pen-and-paper game to try to get his fix. <br /><br />Fighting pixilated dragons was cool; but the preset adventures built into the programs have never been as imaginative as the ones dreamed up by "Dungeon Masters" like Marcellino for his geeky pals in Milton's empty classrooms. Marcellino hopes all of that has changed, since he received on Wednesday his copy of the long-delayed Neverwinter Nights, the first honest-to-God software adaptation of D&amp;D."

[Sven Johannsen]

What, you're not fishing for a promo copy? :wink:

[mememe]

http://www.planetneverwinter.com/

http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,53352,00.html

As an RPG fan myself, I was excited to learn of Neverwinter Nights release (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004TSXC/jasonsego) (affiliate link) - it's been in production for nearly four years! It's one thing to play a game, but it's quite another to create the story within the game itself. This is one game I'll definitely pick up!

"The moment Bill Marcellino has been waiting years for finally came at 10:54 a.m. last Wednesday. Marcellino, a 35-year-old major in the Marine Corps reserves, has been leading adventurers through the fantasy role-playing world of Dungeons and Dragons since he was in the seventh grade at Milton Academy in Massachusetts. Like many D&amp;D addicts, Marcellino has turned again and again to computer clones of the pen-and-paper game to try to get his fix.

Fighting pixilated dragons was cool; but the preset adventures built into the programs have never been as imaginative as the ones dreamed up by "Dungeon Masters" like Marcellino for his geeky pals in Milton's empty classrooms. Marcellino hopes all of that has changed, since he received on Wednesday his copy of the long-delayed Neverwinter Nights, the first honest-to-God software adaptation of D&amp;D."

[Jason Dunn]

What, you're not fishing for a promo copy? :wink:

Hahaha....hey, be nice! :D

[rlitchfield]

Ok...slightly off the topic of being slightly off topic (or something like that)

You have mentioned a number of times that you carry a bible around on your PocketPC, something that may indicate you are a regular believer. Having grown up in a religious family myself, I was always taught that D&D was evil, satanic, etc.

I discovered this game for the first time about 3 years ago and I LOVE IT. I do not "follow the ways of God" as my parents would say, but I'm happy and learning more about God then I ever did in a church.

So...back to the question.....how do you balance your belief in God and playing a game that glorifies demons and multiple gods?

Just a question :) No flames welcome here...just an interesting discussion.

Robert

[Jason Dunn]

So...back to the question.....how do you balance your belief in God and playing a game that glorifies demons and multiple gods?

Wow. 8O That's quite the question! I don't have time for a 5000 word response, but I'll do what I can.

My wife recently asked me a similar question, and I answered it something like this: every person I've met who has criticized D&amp;D has never played it. Pure and simple. If you parents think it's "bad", you should ask them why they think so. Is their objection based on something they've heard/read/etc., ask them if people who feel the same way about Christianity (that it's "bad") are being fair basing their decisions/accusations on 3rd party information vs. first hand knowledge. Some things we know are bad without trying them (ie: throwing yourself off a bridge is bad), but others aren't so easy to judge.

D&amp;D is a game, nothing more. Ultimately, it's no different than Monopoly. Does Monopoly encourage greed or a materialistic attitude? Everything in D&amp;D is fictional. EVERYTHING.

In the same way that in reading a book you're engaging your imagination to create the world the author is describing, D&amp;D encourages you to do the same thing - only you help create the script instead. Some Christians aren't able to seperate influeces from the world - they avoid seeing movies with violence, listening to songs with suggestive lyrics, etc. That's fine for them - each Christ follower should be aware of the limits and vulnerabilities they have. But to assume that ALL Christians have that problem is a faulty premise.

Fact is, people naturally look for things to blame. Some kid commits suicide because his life was hellish, and they blame "heavy metal", D&amp;D, or something else - instead of looking at the things that were CAUSING this kid to suffer (parents, family, friends, psychological disorders, etc.).

That's about all I can say for now. I hoped this helped in some fashion!

PS - If you want a real laugh, check out this old character of mine (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/files/heartsblood.pdf) from 1992...thanks goodness my writing has improved since then! :lol:

[PDAlien]

Well, I've been looking at Neverwinter Nights and after I read your post, I decided to go ahead an buy it. I've been looking for a good RPG since I stopped playing Everquest a while back.

I tried Diablo II and Dungeon Siege, but they are more in the "hack and slash" category. I was still craving the full non-linear world experience that Everquest gave me, without a monthly fee. And I think I have finally found it!

Neverwinter Nights has all the elements I was looking for: full character development, good fighting, multiple and optional quests, non-linear format, multiplayer, etc. And the toolkit to create your own dungeons is a major BONUS! You can even host your dungeon and be the "dungeon master" and actually change things ON THE FLY while others are playing! SWEET!

My main gripe is that it's pretty heavy graphically, and my old nVidia TNT2 Ultra 32MB AGP card is being pushed to its limits. Even at 800x600 things are choppy. Guess I'll have to drop the quality and special effects bars all the way down. :( But this may be a good excuse to go hunting for a GeForce4 card! Anyone know any good deals on one?

So when will we see Pocket Neverwinter Nights? ;)

[rlitchfield]

Interesting answer to my question. I never, nor was taught, thought of it this way. If more organized religions thought more like you, they just might keep "paying" customers like me around longer.

PDAlien....try Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. Though it is slightly buggy and requires a rather big machine it is an AMAZING game. The depth and diversity in this game is the best I've every seen. I've spent a little over 2 years playing EQ and have all the expansion packs and have 3 accounts in the house, and I've stopped playing. Morrowind is the game to play for me right now.

I'm going to wait for a few weeks before I pick up Neverwinter Nights...I want to squeeze a little bit more out of Morrowind before I pick up another game.

Robert

[Jason Dunn]

Interesting answer to my question. I never, nor was taught, thought of it this way. If more organized religions thought more like you, they just might keep "paying" customers like me around longer.

Just remember that human stupidity can ruin everything, even a relationship with your Creator. Don't let what other people say or do deter you from seeking the truth. And if you ever need any guidance, drop me a line - I'd be glad to talk with you. :)

[idleprocess]

So...back to the question.....how do you balance your belief in God and playing a game that glorifies demons and multiple gods?

Just a question :) No flames welcome here...just an interesting discussion.

Robert

Hi all,

I'd like to give my thoughts on this matter as I am both an RPG fan and believer in Jesus Christ. (This too, just interesting discussion, no flames welcome :)

I think the primary problem with D&D is the glorification of Demons, multiple Gods and Magic/Sorcery, etc. The Bible clearly speaks out against these things. (Galations 5:19-22)

Although D&D is just a game of fantasy and fiction, the problem lies in our minds and what we, as a believers in Christ, are focusing our mental energy on.

2 Corinthians 10:3-4 tells us the fight isn't in the physical, it's spiritual, it's mental. Playing D&D, casting fictional spells, fighting fictional monsters, demons or other players proves little or no danger in the physical world, but in our minds, we're opening ourselves up to a world that God condemns.

Hope this helps,

Jeremy

[PDAlien]

Although D&D is just a game of fantasy and fiction, the problem lies in our minds and what we, as a believers in Christ, are focusing our mental energy on.

I hope by "we" you mean you and a handful of others in this discussion. Let's make sure we don't generalize and say that everyone here is a Christian. I, for one, am not. Religion to me is merely a man-made institution that has little to do with the truth of what life is all about. Case in point, there are hundreds of religions on this planet, each with different belief systems, number of gods, etc. Each serves its own purpose. Not one is better than another...just different.

Religion does do good in this world. It gives people faith in something. Something to look forward to. Something to believe in. To base their morals on. Personally, I believe that each person has his/her own "religion". It's all about what each person thinks is their purpose on Earth, what's right and what's wrong, and what happens after we die. My views do not fit into an organized "religion". Does that make me a bad person. No. Does it mean I'm going to hell? Well, that depends if you believe there even IS a hell.

Anyway, my point is that everyone has their own beliefs, and it is up to us to respect other's beliefs. If one group says D&D is evil, then that's their perrogative. They just won't get to play. I see it purely as entertainment which does no harm to anyone, including the player, unless the player is unstable enough to let it affect him in a negative and violent way.

Demons? Nah. They are pixels that look like what we believe demons should look like, if they even really exist. Multiple gods? Sure. Look at other religions in this world and you will find multiple gods. Doesn't mean it's wrong or bad. Just different. And it's all in fun.

What I live by: "Live and let Live"

[greenup]

Although D&D is just a game of fantasy and fiction, the problem lies in our minds and what we, as a believers in Christ, are focusing our mental energy on.
I hope by "we" you mean you and a handful of others in this discussion. Let's make sure we don't generalize and say that everyone here is a Christian.
Or, for that matter, even that all those who are called "Christians" (by themselves or others) are a unit.

Sadly, the concept of "The holy catholic(universal) church" is one that we can't see from here. We can't tell who is, and who isn't a follower of what Christ espoused; at the very least, only He can see the underpinning intent of our hearts when we do "X".

(further indivitual perspectives)
...Each serves its own purpose. Not one is better than another...just different.
...multiple gods. Doesn't mean it's wrong or bad. Just different. And it's all in fun.
What I live by: "Live and let Live"
I respectfully disagree with most of that, but hold to your last line: "live and let live." There _is_ *one* right way, but if you don't agree, my mentioning it is all I can or should do. You can't force someone to love you, and God doesn't try.

...it is up to us to respect other's beliefs.
respect other's rights to have their beliefs. not the beliefs themselves (just a niggle)

...If one group says D&D is evil, then that's their perrogative. They just won't get to play. I see it purely as entertainment which does no harm to anyone, including the player, unless the player is unstable enough to let it affect him in a negative and violent way.
This is a particularly clear statement of the issue. For some people, doing some things IS evil. Some people have problems with alcohol, some with dancing(!)(Didn't david dance before the Lord?!), some even with musical instruments used in worship. Those people shouldn't do those things. Not that this means that murder is OK for some people, (hmm. governments, law enforcers. not the greatest example, but you know what I mean.) but that whether or not some life activities are moral, depends on the person doing them.

I'm sorry I took the quotes out of order, I was trying to develop a continuous thought sequence, and it seemed better this way. I tried to stay in context with what I believed the author was trying to say, and hope that no one sees this as a personal attack, but only what my beliefs say is correct. I don't like some of them, but I didn't get to write the rules. God's justice and His Love meet in the middle with a fine line in some places.
-greenup

[idleprocess]

I hope by "we" you mean you and a handful of others in this discussion. Let's make sure we don't generalize and say that everyone here is a Christian.

Certainly not. I appologize for not making that clear. When I say 'we', I refer to those who believe that the Bible is God's infalible Word and seek final, authoritative answers from within it's pages.

Religion to me is merely a man-made institution that has little to do with the truth of what life is all about.

I agree!

My views do not fit into an organized "religion". Does that make me a bad person. No. Does it mean I'm going to hell? Well, that depends if you believe there even IS a hell.

Without accepting Jesus Christ as your savior, yes, you will be going to Hell. But thats all I'm going to say. I've vowed to myself years ago that I'm not going to harp on people about the Gospel. But I am obligated to point out the way to salvation, I am not, however going to cram it down your throat. I don't want to be 'that' person. :)

What I live by: "Live and let Live"

What I live by: "The Bible"

[Jimmy Dodd]

As someone who first played D&D about twenty-five years ago (man! I'm getting old!) I'd like to chime in here and say that IMHO there is nothing inherently evil in the game. In all of the years I played it was merely a creative outlet for a growing imagination. I met no one in twenty-five years who was corrupted by it. On the contrary, I met numerous social "misfits" who developed their social skills in a positive way: cooperation, consideration of others, and leadership were encouraged and rewarded by all.

Of course since the "game" is merely a set of rules and the real interaction is produced by the gamers themselves, you always get out of D&D what you put into it. As most of the gamers in my group were Christian of one form or another we generally played a "white hat" sort of game. The struggle was always against evil (in a comic book sort of way) and the players were the heroes, fighting for the good of all. I'm sure that if you were a pretty rotten person to start with you'd want to play a pretty rotten kind of game.

I wouldn't trade the experiences I had and the memories I have for anything.

[Jimmy Dodd]

Oh yea, i forgot about the real topic.

So Jason, did you get it yet?

I've thought about getting it for nostalgia (I no longer have the time to get together with friends for any length of time to play D&D) but I haven't heard from anyone if it's worth the price or not.

Just how flexible is the game. I've played several solo D&D/AD&D games on the PC (most recently the Icewind Dale game) but usually get pretty bored with them before finishing them. The relentless fighting,fighting, fighting and very thin plot lines that only seem to string together battles leave me yearning for some real interaction with characters. I haven't tried the online games yet. I've been waiting for a chance to try to run my own campaign so maybe NWN is just the ticket for me.

[Jason Dunn]

Nope, I haven't gotten it yet - next few days I will. What I find most encouraging about it is the sheer number of modules created by people. Want to talk about a game that you can't get sick of or "finish"? This is it! Very cool.

[PDAlien]

Neverwinter Nights is all you've heard and more. I love the game. I just wish I had more time to play!

I am also building a module using the toolset, and it's just amazing how intricate you can make it. With the built-in C-like scripting language, you can do just about anything you can think of. The way the game plays out of the box is excellent. But you can totally rewrite it and have it play more like, say, Diablo if you wish. Say you don't like the way death is handled. No problem. You can change that in your module. Die and lose experience and gold. Die and lose nothing. You can even program it to have a set number of times you can die, more like an arcade game with "5 lives", etc.

Or create your own spells, weapons, effects, etc. The options are limitless. Be forewarned...you will lose sleep. The last time I was addicted to a game like this was with Everquest.

BTW, they are coming out with Pocket Everquest! AMAZING! Check it out at http://www.pocketgamer.org/showthread.php?threadid=964

[PPCRules]

Does it mean I'm going to hell? Well, that depends if you believe there even IS a hell.

Whether you or any other particular person goes to hell does not depend on whether you believe there is a hell. It depends on the truth about hell. Believing one thing or another does not change the truth.

As for D&D, I have chosen to avoid such involvement. We each have only so much time and, like the instruction of 1 Thess 5:21-22, I find there is plenty of better things to consume my allotment.

[JonnoB]

Betweeen this and the bible discussion thread, I think we can safely say that when it comes to things religious, the passion for posting opinions increases a bit. I enjoy speaking about my own faith to others, but somehow, the spirit-enlightened discussion dissapears when it degrades into debate.