I Have A New Favorite Accessory

[Brad Adrian]

I know that we've talked from time to time about the various input methods available for Pocket PCs, but it's a topic that remains important for me. Finding the *perfect* input method has become a bit like a search for the holy grail to me, mostly because I've found that my needs are very situational and depend upon where I am and what I'm doing.<br /><br />Well, I recently got a <a href="http://www.tt-tec.com/index.html">SnapNType keyboard </a> (created by TT Tech), and I realize that I am now one step closer to Input Nirvana.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/snapntype.jpg" /><br /><br />In comparing this device to other tools and applications, I've realized that the SnapNType holds some distinct advantages for me. &lt;!><br /><br />I've always liked the various pen-based input methods, primarily for their convenience. However, many of them, like Transcriber and Calligrapher, are too slow for lengthy writing. And, unfortunately, I have come to realize that my brain is simply too, well, SIMPLE, to truly assimilate the FITALY keyboard. The Stowaway keyboard is great...if you have a nice flat surface on which to work.<br /><br />So, for the diverse ways that I use my Pocket PCs, this SnapNType keyboard offers a lot:<br /><br />• This keyboard is compact and can easily be carried in a shirt pocket or PDA case.<br />• The mechanism that connects the keyboard to my iPAQ is sturdy, yet can be quickly removed when the release buttons are pressed. This mechanism works much more reliably than the one on the similar Compaq Micro Keyboard.<br />• The keys are nice and large, with great tactile response to them.<br />• Unlike other similar keyboards, the SnapNType has cursor movement and Menu keys.<br />• The SnapNType has a special emoticon button (next to arrow) for quickly inserting familiar or customized "smilies," like ;) or :( or :D. I actually use this feature a lot.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/snapntype3.jpg" /><br /><br />• There's even a port on the SnapNType so I can charge my iPAQ while using the keyboard.<br />• This device is perfect for those times when a full-size keyboard is too cumbersome and pen-based input is too slow. I find it great for time spent standing in ticket lines at the airport or when riding in cars or subways.<br /><br />Even though this is a great device, the bottom line is that I will still continue to use my Pocket PC's software keyboard, Calligrapher, Stowaway Keyboard <u>AND</u> the SnapNType; my needs are just to diverse to stick to only one tool. But, you can bet that every time I walk out the door with my Pocket PC, my SnapNType will be tucked in my pocket, too.<br /><br />You can purchase the SnapNType keyboard from <a href="http://www.mobilefanatic.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=TT302&REFERER=84348">Mobile Fanatic</a> (affiliate link) for $39.95.

[jake]

It you are seeking Nirvana get a Handspring Treo 270 (available now)

[marlof]

Jake, I find it quite funny that all you contribute on this site is why the Treo is so cool. But still you keep coming here. Must be something you like about Pocket PCs that keeps you drawn to Thoughts. ;)

[jake]

Hi Marlof!

PocketPCThoughts.com remains one of my favorite sites, not because of the PPC but because of the innovation in technology that is discussed here. As a matter of fact my favorite stuff is and has always been the OFF-TOPIC discussions, particularly from Jason Dunn. For instance, I just noticed, a few minutes ago, Jason posted an article that read “OFF-TOPIC: Microsoft Unveils Latest Mira Prototypes.” I find this kind of stuff fascinating.

Besides being a designer for a living, I am absolutely passionate about great design. In my personal opinion Microsoft has COMPLETELY blown it with the PPC.

I keep posting things on the innovation that is occurring with the Treo because I want to share my insight with the PocketPCThoughts community. After all the name of this site is PocketPCThoughts. I simply think the Treo is a better Pocket PC and to a large extent I am sharing this perspective the same way Jason shares OFF-TOPIC Thoughts.

In your post you are talking about how great this keyboard is for your iPaq, but the challenge is that it makes a device that is already way to big—and has no phone, email, or web surfing—much bigger. I don’t know if you have used a Treo but I’ll bet if you did, especially a color 270 I think you would be blown away.

In my own experience, which I wrote about in detail on this site, the PPC wasted a tremendous amount of my time. With regard to the Treo my experience is 100 times better than with my ipaq.

In my mind, as with voting, I don’t vote among party lines—I vote the issue. With PDA’s I do the same.

With PDA’s I don’t care what brand or OS it is, I only care about how well it works.

If you or Jason think I should not share my insight about the Treo I would be happy to refrain from doing so. If you will permit me to continue expressing my THOUGHTS on the PPC I will do so. Nothing would make me happier than to see Microsoft get it together and blow the TREO out of the water.

In my personal opinion, as Sun-Tzu said in The Art of War: Every war is won before it is fought. I think Microsoft has lost because on a fundamental level, Jeff Hawkins caries around and depends on his Treo and Bill Gates does not.

What do you think? Have you spent any time using a TREO?

[marlof]

Thanks for keeping us on your read list, even if you moved away from the Pocket PC! As you, I don't care too much about what device people use. My girlfriend has access to any of my Pocket PCs, but she prefers here Psion Revo and her Palm m505 ; I still love her, and don't try to persuade her or anything. To each his or her own!

On the Treo: it's a Palm OS device, and has Palm OS benefits and limitations. Just like the Pocket PC has Pocket PC OS benefits and limitations. I do think the Treo is a very interesting development, but I'm still not too happy with the Palm OS.

Therefore I don't think the Treo will blow me away. But it might, I'm open for suggestions. It is simply not available yet in my country (at least not in stores where I can try them out), so I haven't had any experience with it yet.

I'm happy that the Treo benefits you, just like the Revo and m505 benefits my girlfriend. I just think it's fascinating that someone declares a device the überdevice based on his own preferences and personal experiences. You wasted your time on a PPC, but I saved lots of time using mine. I guess we need different things out of different products. I read in one of your posts that you don't care too much for word processing. I do, it's one of my major things, next to multimedia, previewing images from my digital camera, rehearsing presentations etc. For me, a Pocket PC offers things that currently no other device offers. But the others are closing in, and getting more and more interesting. I too hope that Microsoft keeps innovating their devices, and keeps me happy. With the latest ones, the XDA and 928 WDA, they blew me off my socks.

And as for offerning "dissenting opinions" on this board: you're more than welcome to. To me, it's refreshing to see other opinions. But I'd like it better if you don't just post: choose this, and a picture, but explain why you feel it's better. IMO that is the only way to get into a healthy discussion.

I like that fact that Jeff Hawkins carries around the Treo. But don't base your decision on the best device solely on that current time myth. I don't know Bill Gates well enough to know if he carries a Pocket PC all day. But I don't care that much. Other than with HandSpring, at Microsoft it's not Bill Gates who develops the Pocket PC. It's his company, and he supports all development that is going on in the Mobile Devices team. But that team develops the product. And surprise, surprise, those Team members do carry preproduction and production units, just like Jeff Hawkins. I can tell you this from my own experience. Jeff Hawkins' behavior is not that uncommon, you know. The talking into a wooden Visor with imaginary VisorPhone might have been uncommon, but carrying the preproduction or production product is not. ;)

[jake]

Hi Marlof!


Thank you for your response. I agree to a very large extent with everything you say. However, I would like to address the following issues directly quoted from you:


You said: “I just think it's fascinating that someone declares a device the überdevice based on his own preferences and personal experiences.”

Response: As I am certain you have learned from your experience with the add-on keyboard for your ipaq, mini-keyboards are much more accurate than graffiti. The Treo 270 has a built in (backlighted) keyboard and the reason I suggest that the Treo is “über” the competition is because it is much, much smaller. It has a phone, email & internet access. Not to mention it has a built in screen protector. If you added all this onto an ipaq it would cost twice as much and be like a brick.

You said: “You wasted your time on a PPC, but I saved lots of time using mine. “

Response: No. I did not waste time with on my PPC. Microsoft and Compaq with their incompetence did. The Treo has saved me significant time because it is so reliable

You said: “I guess we need different things out of different products. I read in one of your posts that you don't care too much for word processing. I do, it's one of my major things, next to multimedia, previewing images from my digital camera, rehearsing presentations etc.”

Response: I don’t think we really need different things out of different products. It is true I don’t do heavy writing on my Treo. I prefer to do that on my laptop or desktop. If you used a Treo you would not have any different an experience with the amount of writing you do because of the built-in keyboard, which basically makes that a moot point.

With regard to previewing images from a digital camera: I am a professional photographer. I have been shooting since I was a small boy and because my family owned a photography gallery. Today I shoot purely Digital photography because I think film sucks. I shoot with a Canon Digital Elph 110, a Canon D30 and a Canon 1D. I shoot models for my clothing design company and during an average shoot I take over a thousand pictures. If you think that being able to preview your images on a PPC is valuable, than I would recommend a bigger card. And if you are shooting with a digital camera, isn’t that what the built in LCD is for!?!?!?

With regard to rehearsing presentations, I do the same thing. Treo works great with the jog dial for scrolling.

With regard to the PPC team at MS I argue that too many cooks are ruining the broth. I had several conversations with Derek Brown on this subject and he suggested that perhaps they are suffering from Myopia. I would tend to agree.

Marlof, I have a background in strategic design and to a very large extent I believe design is a science. I have used both the iPaq and Treo extensively, and after doing so I conclude that the PPC is a Joke. The only way that Microsoft can come close is by copying the Treo.

In concluding, if you feel that carrying around a cell phone, an iPaq, a CF card sleeve, a mini keyboard and a screen protector instead of a Treo then I respectfully disagree with you.

I would bet that if you get a chance to use a Treo 270 for a few weeks you will probably have a paradigm shift.

In the final analysis this reminds me of the great quote from T.S. Elliot: “We must not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we began and to know the place for the first time. “

If you think size does not matter, I say size is everything.

What do you think?

[orinoco]

Hi folks:

Interesting discussion. I am looking to move to an integrated device, and I am quite intrigued by the Treo 270. It seems to have everything you would need: flip cover, keyboard, color, phone, organizer features, syncing capability. I wonder though why they did not include an SD slot (bummer !!!).

These are my options:

(a) the Treo 270
(b) wait for the HTC from Voicestream
(c) the Audiovox Thera
(d) keep my Jornada 568 and buy the PC Card expansion and a Sierra Wireless Card (555 for CDMA-Verizon or 750 for GSM/GPRS-Voicestream)

Any suggestions ?

[marlof]

Hi Jake. You see? Even on Thoughts we can have open minded cross platform discussion! I like that a lot, thanks for your response.

"As I am certain you have learned from your experience with the add-on keyboard for your ipaq, mini-keyboards are much more accurate than graffiti."

I've never, not once used graffiti, so I wouldn't know. I use the SIP Keyboard. I don't believe in lots of text entry on a mini keyboard. I believe in foldable keyboards that takes me to full speed. As I said: text entry is important ( I easily do over 1500 words per document ), and I'm sorry, but a mini keyboard does not give the WPM I need. For the occasional entry of a new appointment or contact, I am pretty much indifferent between a mini keyboard and the SIP keyboard. And yes, I can use a Jornada with a backlighted keyboard.

"the reason I suggest that the Treo is “über” the competition is because it is much, much smaller. It has a phone, email & internet access. Not to mention it has a built in screen protector. If you added all this onto an ipaq it would cost twice as much and be like a brick."

What's with you and the iPAQ? There are more Pocket PCs out there. Did you play with the XDA? The 928 WDA? Those are the communicators the Treo competes with. As I said: I'm happy that you like the Treo, but I can't say before that I'm going to like it. I suspect not, not because the design, but because of the OS. Or does the OS have new cool things too that I don't know about?

"The Treo has saved me significant time because it is so reliable."

Good for you. I saved time too. We're both happy campers! :)

"I don’t think we really need different things out of different products. "

O, yes we do.

" It is true I don’t do heavy writing on my Treo. I prefer to do that on my laptop or desktop. "

You see? We do different things on our Pocket PC, and that defines our needs. You carry your laptop or desktop with you to all your meetings, in your car, in the train, to court sessions, etc? I do with my Pocket PC, and am happy to leave my laptop at home. Text entry is one of my main things, and a mini keyboard, no matter in what form it comes, or a SIP simply does not cut it. That the Treo has a mini keyboard built in is not important to me, as I don't care to use that or the SIP panels for extensive text entry. I've tried both, and made my decision. Why can't you believe a mini keyboard is not my Nirvana? I'm a foldable keyboard kinda guy, and the fact if my device would have a SIP keyboard or a mini keyboard doesn't matter to me.

In fact, in the user group tests of the Handspring, there were two different types of people: one that did and one that didn't like the mini keyboard. That's why they created both. So it's not that strange that you and me differ in opinion. It's just a bit strange that you don't seem to accept that my point can be valid too.

"With regard to previewing images from a digital camera: I am a professional photographer. I have been shooting since I was a small boy and because my family owned a photography gallery. Today I shoot purely Digital photography because I think film sucks. I shoot with a Canon Digital Elph 110, a Canon D30 and a Canon 1D. "

Oh! I envy you. Cool outfit!

"I shoot models for my clothing design company and during an average shoot I take over a thousand pictures. If you think that being able to preview your images on a PPC is valuable, than I would recommend a bigger card. And if you are shooting with a digital camera, isn’t that what the built in LCD is for!?!?!?"

Yes, but my camera can't resize the images, and shoot them off by email. I like to do that with my Pocket PC. And that's where a CF slot in my PDA, and a preview functionality, comes in real handy.

"With regard to rehearsing presentations, I do the same thing. Treo works great with the jog dial for scrolling."

What's the PowerPoint synching program you use on the Treo? I'm using Pocket Slides on my Pocket PC, and must say I really like it.

"Marlof, I have a background in strategic design and to a very large extent I believe design is a science. I have used both the iPaq and Treo extensively, and after doing so I conclude that the PPC is a Joke. The only way that Microsoft can come close is by copying the Treo."

I don't know, can only tell that after I've used the device. From the looks of it I can tell you I am certain it has cool aspects, but somehow I feel the OS, the lack of an expansion slot and the lack of multimeida is still something I would not like too much. So if they copy the Treo, the better not do an exact copy. ;)

"I would bet that if you get a chance to use a Treo 270 for a few weeks you will probably have a paradigm shift."

We'll see about that. Can't you talk Jeff into giving me one as a loaner? We don't have the "exchange" policy that is common in the US, so I'd have to pay for one out of my own pocket, to experience it. I'm not so sure I'm willing to do that.

"If you think size does not matter, I say size is everything."

Please don't say you're in the "form over function" group of design? I believe in "form follows function". I define the functionaly I need first, and then choose the bettest form to go with that. Although I'm happy that you like the Treo this much, I fear that one can not live up to my demands in functionality.

[marlof]

Orinico, here's my personal view. As always, your mileage may vary. ;)

(a) the Treo 270

Jake will tell you to go with that one, I can't tell. Haven't used one, but I see some limitations in it that I don't like.

(b) wait for the HTC from Voicestream

That is one awesome device. Currently, that is all I can tell due to some limitations. Read the review on Brighthand, and you see what I mean. Also this one has some limitations (no CF slot, limited color range, no built in screen protection), but in general I liked it a lot.

(c) the Audiovox Thera

I have no experience with that one, but I believe the integration between the Pocket PC OS and the data/phone part is a bit less than with the Pocket PC 2002 Phone Edition. May be a Thera user could fill in here.

(d) keep my Jornada 568 and buy the PC Card expansion and a Sierra Wireless Card (555 for CDMA-Verizon or 750 for GSM/GPRS-Voicestream)

That would make your PPC a bit big, as those PC Card Expansion modules are not the smallest ones.... If you'd carry your device wherever you'd go, this might become a problem. On the other hand, if you have a laptop, you could use the same card to connect your laptop as well.

[Brad Adrian]

I don’t know if you have used a Treo but I’ll bet if you did, especially a color 270 I think you would be blown away...Have you spent any time using a TREO?

Actually, Jake, I've been carrying around a Treo 270 for the past six weeks in order to evaluate it. Granted, it does some things very well (the new TreoMail does a great job of fetching mail from behind my corporate firewall), but it still doesn't meet my personal needs. Right now, nothing that's available really does, but the coming Phone Edition Pocket PCs sure will come close.

Here's why the Treo hasn't become a staple of my daily life:

• The lack of multi-tasking kills it for me. I need to be able to look up a calendar date while replying to an e-mail without killing the e-mail application.
• The screen is too small for my tastes. Editing documents and surfing the Web are much easier for me on a Pocket PC.

• The keyboard on the Treo is too small for my large hands. It's okay for quick messaging, but anything more extensive and my thumbs keep hitting too many wrong keys.

• Getting to the Applications screen requires remapping one of the hardware keys or using a two-key sequence using keys on the opposite sides of the keyboard.

• I need a telephone with speech dialing, which the Treo does not support. I will continue to use a separate cell phone until that feature is available in an integrated device.

• The Treo will never be able to support powerful enterprise applications. I need to do project planning, network administration and extensive contact management in ways that only a Pocket PC can support.

In the end, though, do I think the Treo will fail? Absolutely not. It will give the RIM Blackberry a real run for its money and will sell like hotcakes.

Is the Treo right for my needs? No. The trade-offs still tip the scales in favor of the Pocket PC.

But I am glad that you've found something that works for you. Thanks for the comments.

[GregWard]

The 270 is a great looking device and competition has to be good from the consumers point of view. If it suits you - brilliant.
But an uber-device? It's got 16mb on-board, no expansion capabilities and just a 33 mzh processor. So it's far from ideal for many people. Now jack in a strongarm, more ram, an sd slot (or two) and Palmos 5 (assuming it works!) - now you could be talking!
Even then, for me, I'd rather they took this form factor and put in PPC instead! I've played around with PPC, Symbian and Palm. I'm no MS lover but PPC beats the daylights out of the others (in my opinion and for my uses) when it comes to connectivity. I like the continuous sync and the fact that email linking really works. But again - just my views.
Heh - you know what? We're all different and what suits one doesn't suit another. So I 100% agree with Marlof - dissenting opinions with explanations have got to be good.

[Janak Parekh]

So I 100% agree with Marlof - dissenting opinions with explanations have got to be good.
It is, but can we move the Treo 270 discussion to another place on this forum? Us iPaqers are actually interested in the SnapNType keyboard :)

Brad, have you used the Compaq thumbtype keyboard? I'm debating which one to get, and I think the SnapNType is the one for me, but I was just curious to hear your comments.

thanks,

--bdj

[Sanjay Srikonda]

I bought a TT302 for my Ipaq 3850, I used it for the first few weeks. It's fine. it's no great shakes. i don't like that to navigate one line at a time, you have to press 3 keys EVERY TIME you want to move one line down. I could remap the keys, but then it's not exactly out of the box is it?

I wound up going back to my hunt and peck method instead.

[Pony99CA]

Why can't you believe a mini keyboard is not my Nirvana? I'm a foldable keyboard kinda guy, and the fact if my device would have a SIP keyboard or a mini keyboard doesn't matter to me.


Oooh, oooh, I can answer this! He thinks a mini-keyboard is your Nirvana because he thought you wrote the original post, when in fact Brad Adrian did.

The giveaway is the following:

In your post you are talking about how great this keyboard is for your iPaq, but the challenge is that it makes a device that is already way to big--and has no phone, email, or web surfing--much bigger.


He's committing the logical fallacy of attacking a straw man. When a premise is incorrect, any conclusion can be proven. :-)

Steve

[Brad Adrian]

Brad, have you used the Compaq thumbtype keyboard? I'm debating which one to get, and I think the SnapNType is the one for me, but I was just curious to hear your comments.

Yes, I have. As far as thumb-boards go, I like the SnapNType much more:

• The buttons have a better feel
• The buttons are bigger (though the device really isn't)
• The Compaq doesn't have as useful cursor movement keys
• The shift and FN keys on the SnapNType are "sticky." On the Compaq version, you have to hold down the shift key while pressing the key to be capitalized. With the SnapNType, you press the shift key, release it, and the next key you press is capitalized. Much easier for thumb use.

As far as the comment about needing multiple presses to scroll, I'm not sure what sanjsrik means. There are easy-to-use scrolling keys and even simpler page-up and page-down keys.

[Sanjay Srikonda]

I tried to use the (what I assumed) were the scroll up and down keys, turns out they're the page up/down keys, to scroll up and down a single line you have to press the "symbol" key and then the up or down arrow key. you have to do this every time you want to scroll up and down for a single line.

That's just not very intuitive.

[marlof]

Wel, I'm partly to blame for this Treo thing. My excuses to the iPAQers on this board. It's just that when Jake found that if an iPAQ with a Snap N Type is your text entry Nirvana, you should get a Treo, I couldn't help but smile, as that's a position Jake took before on this board. And hey, as this is about text entry, I think it's - albeit partly - on topic.

Now I'll get back to the mini keyboards: I have both the Compaq Mini Keyboard and the Jornada Keyboard Cover. The latter is way better, and from what I saw of the Snap N Type, it has a similar kind of design quality (both buttons and software) as the Jornada keyboard, and then some. Still love the way the Jornada and keyboard cover become one very stable device 'though...

[Grey]

I hope I will not get smack down to hard for going off topic here. :lol:
But does the TNT have the "\" key that is missing from the micro Keyboard? Does it have any additional keys that the microkeyboard does not.

Thanks
grey

[Brad Adrian]

...to scroll up and down a single line you have to press the "symbol" key and then the up or down arrow key.

Right. That's not always convenient. One thing you can do is press the SYMBOL key twice, keeping it active, if you're going to do a lot of scrolling.

[Ryan Joseph]

:?: Does this keyboard have a shift button? I had one once that didn't and it was very frustrating. I had to turn CAPS on, type the letter, then turn CAPS back off. In looking for a new keyboard, I want one with Shift. Does anyone know if this SnapNType Keyboard have it? Thanks!