June Launch for New Pocket PCs based on Intel PXA210 and 250

[Jason Dunn]

http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?IR=N&ClassID=100&datePublish=2002/05/28&pages=06&seq=37

The mainstream media is still reporting Xscale devices to be released in June, but I'm personally not buying it - I think the Xscale problem is bigger than most believe, and we won't see Xscale devices in the channel in a big way until August/September. Let's hope I'm wrong!

"An array of new handheld computers using Intel’s PXA210 and PXA250 chips and running on Microsoft’s Pocket PC software will hit the market in June. Casio’s first Pocket PC powered by a PXA250 processor is scheduled for launch next month, and Taiwan-based Wistron, which already makes Casio’s Cassiopeia Pocket PC E-200 models, will manufacture the new machines.

Hitachi also will make its debut in the handheld device market next month with its PXA250-based Pocket PCs, with an initial sales target of roughly 10,000 a month. The devices are equipped with wireless data transmission and communications functions and will be sold through value-added retailer channels as opposed to the mass retail market. Taiwan-based Compal Electronics will design and manufacture the devices for Hitachi. Toshiba also expects to introduce its Pocket PCs using PXA250 processors. Currently Taiwan-based High Tech Computer (HTC) makes the company’s Intel StrongARM SA 1110-powered GENIO e550 and e550MD handheld computers that started selling in Japan last August. The Pocket PC e310, a newer version using the same processor, was contracted with Compal and launched this month." Source: Chris Coulter

[Duncan]

The mainstream media is always behind in these things!

I am firmly convinced that the XScale problems have been sorted and the Loox is still due to be released in July - as for the Toshia e740 - I remain sceptical about everything to do with it. HPaq and Casio? Never again will I trust either of them with my Pocket PC money... so I don't care when they get released...

[Paragon]

h

The mainstream media is still reporting Xscale devices to be released in June, but I'm personally not buying it - I think the Xscale problem is bigger than most believe, and we won't see Xscale devices in the channel in a big way until August/September. Let's hope I'm wrong!



Jason I agree with you. I have been saying the same thing for a while. I'm glad (sad) to hear someone that is much better informed then myself say this.

There are a few indicators missing here if the Xscale devices were just around the corner. So far Xscale devices have been advertised in much the same way we see cardboard cutouts in the movie theaters. All this talk of what they are going to be but no one is even saying things like " I tested one the other day and it rocks. Wish I could say more, but I can't due to NDA". Nothing, almost like vaporware?

The few reports we have had about Xscale have been negative. Supposedly Intel sent their preproduction chips to it's likely customers and they told them it wasn't good enough. The speed increase was not exceptable, nor was the power saving capabilities.

Due dates keep getting pushed back, and any that have announce are giving very vague delivery dates.

Here is a thought, and I would like to here what you and the rest of the 'Thoughts" team think.

One of the reported problems with Xscale isn't Xscale it's self but CE3.0 and PPC 2002 can't optimize the new chip to it's full capasity.

CE .NET has been in the hands of the PPC team for about six months. They must be a fair way into the development, and could have it done within the next 6 months. If there are problems with Xscale and it won't be out til September, would it maybe not be a better idea to hold of releasing anything for a couple months beyond that. So that we would have a truly new generation of PPCs with Windows CE. NET PPC 2003 and Xscale all in one package. There was a lot of flack over PPC 2002 not being a full new version this would give the whole industry time to "Do It Right The First Time".

I'm sure there are some developers out there, particularily new ones that want to be the first ones out with an Xscale device, but I think if they were faced with putting out an inferior device on their first shot, and waiting to put out a solid device they might reconsider. Afterall if there first PPC is a dud it will be a hard, long, steep road to recovery.

This would take a little collusion between Microsoft and Intel.... geee I don't know, do you think that's possible. :D

The other good reason is it would save me about $1000.00 CND for a few more months. :-)

Dave

[Will T Smith]

I would speculate that increased demand is also a factor.

PocketPC is gaining more manufacturers, more device classes, AND more overall demand. The demand for X-Scale processors is likely more than anticipated 6 months ago. Thus a rollout will take longer in order to build up supplies and supply shortages for OEMs.

Such a botched release would be disastrous. It's not unheard of in Intel's history. Such a gaffe gave AMD a big boost a couple of years ago. TI is right around the corner with it's ARM offerings. Such a gaffe could create converts amonst the current crop of X-Scale customers.

[Charles Pickrell]

What scares me is that Intel has been running X-Scale internally on their own CE based hardware for a while now. How could they not have noticed the performance problems in their own processor with shipping CE technology? It is pretty scary.

[Paragon]

What scares me is that Intel has been running X-Scale internally on their own CE based hardware for a while now. How could they not have noticed the performance problems in their own processor with shipping CE technology? It is pretty scary.

Charles, do you know what version they have been running on it. CE 3.0 or the newer CE .NET. If it's on the later it would explain a few things....yes....no?

Dave

[andre]

for all doubters- i just purchased a toshiba e740 at the downtown compusa location in san francisco. apparently the toshiba rep was in the store this morning and dropped off what looked like a box of about 12 units.

I'm dying to open the thing, but the version I bought has integrated WI-FI, and I really feel like I would prefer bluetooth to use with my Ericsson t68i...I didnt look too closely at the unit, and I presumed it had bluetooth.

Unfortunately, the standard battery looks absolutely puny as well, which does not bode well for the integrated WI-FI model, and I have to say the screen looks exactly like the 310's which I have heard is a bit washed out. This is only from speculation, as the second I open mine, I get hit with the dreaded CompUSA restocking fee...My plan is to look for the bluetooth model and then swap or exchange it.

Also, the rumours that you've heard regarding accessories and a VGA out adapter are true, they are shown on the box, along with an extended battery which clips onto the entire back face of the 740...if I have the time later, maybe I'll post a picture of the back of the box.

[Paragon]

Ah go for it... open it. Let us us know how it works. What's the matter, you chicken!! :D

Joking aside if you do decide to open it be sure to come back and give us your opinion.

Dave

[Duncan]

no one is even saying things like " I tested one the other day and it rocks. Wish I could say more, but I can't due to NDA". Nothing, almost like vaporware?

See Alex Kac in the Fujitsu-Siemens forum on Brighthand. See the reports (including the one on my site) about the XScale on the Loox as seen at the recent Intel Developer Forum conference.

The few reports we have had about Xscale have been negative. Actually - no, they haven't! Rumour, mixed with reports that the XScale HAS had problems that have been ironed out, mixed with people saying - well it doesn't open Word files any faster (thus missing half the point of the XScale), mixed with judgements made after trying pre-production models - this should be compared with some very positive reports from some quarters!

Due dates keep getting pushed back, and any that have announce are giving very vague delivery dates. No - they don't! May was quoted as a 'possible' date for some devices months ago. Despite no concrete evidence that these were confirmed dates, a number of retailers jumped on the bandwagon. Their dates have been moved back - not those of the manufacturers.

If people were silly enough to believe Amazon over the e740, when it wasn't even on the Toshiba website(!)...

As for the Pocket Loox - no formal date (aside from the intitial press realease, which only gave a rough date of May) was given until today. It has been common news since April that the release date for the Loox was to be end of July. Today FS have confirmed this. No change!

As for various articles in mainstream mags - they are usually far behind the times - why take what they print so seriously?

How could they not have noticed the performance problems in their own processor with shipping CE technology? How do we know they didn't? I believe the XScale problems were solved as far back as late April/early May - based on the simple fact that FS were able to give (and so far keep to) a revised release date for the Loox that far back. This speaks to me of a known set of issues that Intel were already working on finding answers to, but took a bit longer than they thought.

I have to say guys - I see no evidence of anything more than a process between Intel and the PPC manufacturers that would normally have been enirely behind the scenes - were we not so good, as a community, at ferreting this stuff out! Can ANYONE point me to ONE solid piece of evidence that a manufacturer has changed or moved a committed release date for an XScale Pocket PC (HPaq merger aside)? I have a hat and a bottle of tomato ketchup waiting beside me.. :wink:

[andre]

just got off the phone with the Comp USA store downtown San Francisco.

read my earlier post re: this, but the semi bad news for me is out of the 19 units that came in today, they were all of the 802.11 persuasion.

The guy I spoke to, who like all comp-usa employees is certainly not the sharpest knife in the block, seemed to think that they would only be stocking the one version of the e740, the one with WI-FI onboard, which kinda sucks for me because I'm really thinking I would prefer the Bluetooth model.

Ah well, I could hold onto it for a few days and see if the other version hits the channels, or I suppose I could hit E-Bay and see what I could fetch for this one.

A quick search of on-line also reveals that none of the models appear to have hit inventory yet, but I'm willing to bet tommorow or the day after they show up...I can't imagine Comp USA is that ahead of the pack.

Can anyone point me to the Amazon link? Does anyone recall what version they were selling?

If you guys take up a collection, I'll open this sucker up and run it through the paces- LOL, all I need is 15% of 600 bucks to break even...

[entropy1980]

andre I will buy it off you I want the wifi...... email me we can work out a private auction or something......
[email protected]

[Paragon]

Duncan

It would seem that do to andre's post that our discussion over Xscale being out soon maybe a bit moot. When I made my comments I was not hoping that it was all true but speculating on the possibilites. It seems that the possibilities of Xscale beng out soon are extreemly good :)

I hope that andre opens his Toshiba and it is all it is cracked up to be, and that my senerio is all wrong.

On another note concerning the Loox.... I saw a post from an MS PPC MVP who said he had a feeling the Loox would not make it to North America. Who you put any weight behind that at all. Have heard anything that would make one think that..... geeez I hope not it is a pretty cool looking device, and I have heard nothing myself that would support it. Also I saw a picture of a Loox somewhere that showed it with a flip lid similar to the Jornada, do you know if that is going to be a final production model feature.

Dave

[Duncan]

Dave,

It would seem that do to andre's post that our discussion over Xscale being out soon maybe a bit moot. Maybe... so far one individual, making his first ever posts on PPC Thoughts, seems to be the only evidence we have... He may be on the level - but I'm reserving the right to remain sceptical...(what else is new!).

I'm glad you took my post in the vein in which it was intended - I was worried you might think I was having a go!

North American release for the Loox is still uncertain it seems, BUT - this is only because Far East and European release is a more likely initial target for a model designed for GPRS use.

FWIW - officially the Loox is still a goer in the US under the Fujitsu name. No-one will admit to anything else yet though (like dates)! I have some feelers out and will report what I hear as soon as I hear t!

Loox with a lid? Not in any photo I've seen, and not official (yet), but if you remember where you saw the photo I'd be interested to see...

[entropy1980]

here is his ebay link to prove it looks legit to me!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1358040526

[Paragon]

Duncan

It would seem that do to

Dave

Some days I crack myself up........... due to

Lets hope that "entropy1980" can varify this for us. :) Since I'm a bit sceptical too.

Dave

[Duncan]

I ave bought on of those atural keybords an it's causing me to mis ltters all over the plce...

ebay proves nothing e1980! Reports from more than one person is what is needed...

[Paragon]

I ave bought on of those atural keybords an it's causing me to mis ltters all over the plce...

ebay proves nothing e1980! Reports from more than one person is what is needed...

I think I have to stop eating lunch, talking on the phone, and posting a message at the same time. I tried chewing gum as well but I kept swallowing it. :)

Has anyone called CompUSA in San Fran. to see if they have anymore of the Toshibas....Seems to me it's on George St. ..... does that sound right.

Dave

[andre]

Its listed on EBay for anyone curious, its the only one out there, so just search for toshiba e740...I've attached a pic of the back of the box, but I've never attached anything in this forum before, so I'm not sure how that works...

BTW, for anyone who thinks this is some kind of elaborate hoax, I think its really funny that you would doubt me- do you think I crafted some kind of home made box and faked the digital photos? I've got more valuable ways to spend my time- ahh, still funny- what do you think is next, the great fujitsu hoax of 2002? I've got one crafted out of paper maiche and marmalade, lol....

news flash, my friend just purchased the last three units, which he is slapping up on ebay as we speak, so you should see a total of four listed...

he's stealing my photo's as well i think, because he ran out of work this afternoon to make his purchase, and he wants to get them listed...

I'm not too interested in selling mine, or else I would have cornered the market like he did- I just want the damn bluetooth model, I already have a symbol compact flash 802.11 card...

I still can't believe they're not listed in inventory db's anywhere, like mobile planet, amazon, buy.com or any of the others- thats kinda why I put the thing on Ebay- seems like it hasn't hit the radar yet. Although I did buy an hp 568 at Fry's a week before they were officially in the retail channels.

[Paragon]

Loox with a lid? Not in any photo I've seen, and not official (yet), but if you remember where you saw the photo I'd be interested to see...

I'm not sure where I saw it. It wasn't a full shot of it either. After looking at the picture you have on you site of the Loox with the GPRS module on it, it's a good possibility that the picture I saw was of that, but not showing enough of it to tell if it was the front or the back. If I do find it again I'll let you know.

Dave