Palm OS update will be gradual

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1040-919233.html?tag=fd_top">http://news.com.com/2100-1040-919233.html?tag=fd_top</a><br /><br />I find the whole PDA market interesting. Not the devices, but the business. The strategy. The roadmaps. Palm's migration to OS 5 has been very interesting to watch. I see tons of posts on various message boards from Palm users that want or don't want significant changes. <br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/palmos5.jpg" /><br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1329">Last week</a> I talked about several different possible scenarios with the info I had then. Palm Source has given some additional information today, and apparently those who love OS 4 will love OS 5. Those who hoped OS 5 would be the Pocket PC killer in terms of multitasking, multimedia, speed, etc. will have to keep hoping. Some of the comments from the article:<br /><br />&amp;#8226; In contrast to recent operating system shifts on the desktop--namely Apple's move to Mac OS X and Microsoft's switch to Windows XP--Palm's upcoming change to OS 5 and to more powerful ARM-based processors will hardly be noticeable at first, according to PalmSource software architect David Fedor.<br />&amp;#8226; Icons and menus will look the same on most devices, and there will be no ARM-native applications to begin with, since developer tools are not yet complete. <br />&amp;#8226; "We don't want users to have to know the difference between a 68000 device and an ARM device," Fedor said.<br />&amp;#8226; Some applications may fail to work under PACE if they contain code that breaks Palm OS rules to get better performance, said Fedor, urging developers to clean up their code. <i>We knew hacks wouldn't work. It seems they are now ensuring that hacks and other development shortcuts internal to apps don't exist, part of the program mentioned <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1329">last week</a>. </i><br />&amp;#8226; Certain processor-intensive operations might also work more slowly under ARM processors and have to be made ARM-native, he said. <br />&amp;#8226; <b>The first release of OS 5 will not support fully native ARM applications, </b>Fedor said. That will come with the next major release. "You can do the switch to be ARM native when it is appropriate for your business," Fedor said. "Some companies may not see the need for several years. PACE is going to be supported for a good long time." <br /><br />OS 5 won't support fully native ARM apps? Wow! In the far extremes I had contemplated, I never imagined they would go so far to support OS 4 and recommend against ARM development. Indeed ARM development may be unsupported. Speaking of unsupported, thanks to Foo Fighter for the link. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif" />

[Inaki C]

If these news are true this is an anticipation of the definitive Palm fall.

[Jonathan1]

D@MN dude. :twisted: Whoever made that decision need to pass that bong my way and let me have a hit. *PUFF PUFF PUFF* ::coughs::: 8O 8O 8O Wow that is some strong ****!!! :P

Quick question
"there are tons and tons of applications that run on OS 5 perfectly well,"
OK so how many programs comprise a ton? Was that 80 or 90? ;)

Another thing. So basically Palm is recommending remaining on this emulator crap. So instead of going native, while keeping backwards compatibility which anyone with ANY common sense knows is faster then emulation, they are going to want to hold back developers. I also noticed:

and there will be no ARM-native applications to begin with, since developer tools are not yet complete.
Great :roll: So instead of taking the time to get the entire product complete they are focusing purely on emulation. Is it just me or does this sound like a rush job? Something to hold back MS until they can come out with "the real deal" something smells in the land of Palm and it ain't Fedor's feet.

[possmann]

Palm has been laboring on this for how long? With how many developers? I almost feel sorry for them. When you think about it - they had the vision and failed to act, failed to heed the competition's activities and now they are going to be left in the dust.

[Jonathan1]

Palm has been laboring on this for how long? With how many developers? I almost feel sorry for them. When you think about it - they had the vision and failed to act, failed to heed the competition's activities and now they are going to be left in the dust.

I swear that I read somewhere that they have been working on Palm OS 5 since '99. 8O If that IS the case then there is a serious problem at Palm

[entropy1980]

Palm is definitely dead... they have made everyone wait for arm for what? No multitasking, battery hungry(have you tried running an emulator on your PPC? Batteries get sucked faster than a chick in a vampire flick) "upgrade"? Makes no sense! Why would you upgrade the o/s and processor to only run the old.... why not then just leave it the old then?OS 5 is going to be stillborn....

[Kre]

What the grunt is the matter with this company? Theyve got idiot after idiot working there. Theyre just opening up the front door of market share to Microsoft and saying, c'mon in and take as much as you want.

Goodbye Palm. It was lame knowin' ya.

Maybe Sony will get the picture, get hip to the program and make a pocket pc. How cool would that be?

[angelseye2000]

Originally posted by Calvin
Exactly my point. David's quote has been mis-read to mean that there will be *NO* ARM support, rather than it will be supported, but not fully.

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Ed Hansberry: "So, is that like being pregnant, but not fully pregnant? ;-)"
http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread.php?s=c857c85e5b571254751f89065657eafd&threadid=38442&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

So now you are comparing an operating system which "will not support fully native ARM applications" with being "being pregnant, but not fully pregnant?"?????

That tells me enough.

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Another reply.....

"No you don't understand. You can't have a fully Arm application, but you can have Arm routines called by 68K routines. This is akin to the days of Dos when you needed a 16-bit Dos extender to run applications in 32-bit mode. (Like Doom, etc.) It's a transition period. This means you CAN use the performance of the Arm cpu when you really need it and fall back on 68K code for most other things." (by xengren)
http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread.php?s=c857c85e5b571254751f89065657eafd&threadid=38442&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

"Native ARM applications means that you won't be able to use Palm OS 5 to directly take the advantage of the new CPU, but it doesn't mean that you cannot do it by directly coding for it (which is not the ideal way to program). Palm OS 3 and 4 don't support virtual graffitti but that didn't stop HandEra and Sony from implementing it. I assume that if the application is CPU-intensive (i.e. some type of video decoder) it would be able to take advantage of ARM, but the developer will have to release an update when Palm OS 5.5/6 comes out with that support built-in.

This is pretty much what I expected from Palm OS 5 after seeing the initial screenshots a few months back. Some may ask what is the point - the point is that you could buy an ARM-based Sony NR75V (whatever they call it) with PalmOS 5, still get a better performance than with the current Palm devices AND be able to upgrade 6 months later to a native ARM OS that should make it even better." (by Slaven)
http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread.php?s=c857c85e5b571254751f89065657eafd&threadid=38442&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

[Ed Hansberry]

Originally posted by Calvin
Exactly my point. David's quote has been mis-read to mean that there will be *NO* ARM support, rather than it will be supported, but not fully.

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Ed Hansberry: "So, is that like being pregnant, but not fully pregnant? ;-)"
http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread.php?s=c857c85e5b571254751f89065657eafd&threadid=38442&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

So now you are comparing an operating system which "will not support fully native ARM applications" with being "being pregnant, but not fully pregnant?"?????

That tells me enough.

It tells me you are honing your cut and paste skills to remain vaguely on topic, but you don't understand what a smiley is. :roll: I'll tell you what I tell my kids. If you don't understand what a word or symbol means, don't use it until you ask an adult.