‘Copy-proof’ CDs foiled by a marker

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/754854.asp">http://www.msnbc.com/news/754854.asp</a><br /><br />"Technology buffs have cracked music publishing giant Sony Music’s elaborate disc copy-protection technology with a decidedly low-tech method: scribbling around the rim of a disk with a felt-tip marker."<br /><br />I have one thing to say. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif" /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif" /><br /><br />When publishers try to punish people and take away their rights - that's right, we have the <i><b>RIGHT</b></i> to make a private copy of our music - someone will find a way around it. Instead of expending your energy on more DRM <i>(Digital Rights Madness)</i> technology, how about giving us the ability to legally purchase, not rent, songs over the internet for a buck each? Until you do that, Morpheus, Kazaa, or something will continue to fulfill our desire for that one song we want without having to buy a $15 CD. $16 after we buy a <a href="http://mrboxonline.com/SUPERSHARPIEINFO.HTML">Sharpie</a> to circumvent your copy protection scheme. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif" />

[reidme]

I just sent SONY Music this email:

Your attempts at copy-protecting music CDs are OUTRAGEOUS! I can't believe you are punishing the vast majority of your customers who pay full price for your product and use it in a legal and legitimate manner in order to stop the small fraction that steal and cheat. I agree that copying music over the internet is a crime, so punish the offenders... not the innocent! If I buy a CD I have a right to play it on any device I own, including a computer. I also have a right to copy songs to a recordable CD to make a mix to play in my car. When you sell your SONY computers you advertise these things as a feature!

I have spent many tens of thousands of dollars on SONY products in my life and have respected SONY as an innovative and forward-thinking company with a strong customer focus, but if this type of irresponsible behavior continues I'll be looking hard at Panasonic or another of your worthy competitors for my next purchase.

[tonyv]

Oh oh! Doesn't that mean that it is now a felony to produce, own, or transport a felt-tip marker???

[Perry Reed]

You know what's next... The music companies will demand a new tax on all felt-tip pens, with the proceeds going to them to offset the "piracy"...

:)

[Sanjay Srikonda]

OMG, that's too damn funny. I'm still laughing at this one.

hackers 1 felt tip marker
big giant music industry $900 Million to develop a copy protection scheme that doesn't work.

Ha ha ha ha ha, thud

(the sound of a man laughing his head off)

[reidme]

Don't laugh too hard... They could easily move the copy protection track to the middle of the CD or a random location where it wouldn't be so easy to defeat. The point isn't that their first attempt was lame, but that they are making the attempt at all.

[Jeff Kirvin]

Oh oh! Doesn't that mean that it is now a felony to produce, own, or transport a felt-tip marker???

The scary thing is that under the DMCA, you may be right.

[Jason Dunn]

It's nearing all-our war, with music studios on one side, consumers on the other, and the musicians in the middle.

Anyone see what's wrong with this picture? Sheesh. :evil:

[Sanjay Srikonda]

Musicians seem very well sided with the music companies, what was the heavy metal group that sued copyright infringers recently?

Musicians are just like anyone else, they may say they're in it for the artistic sense, but when the money starts rolling in, something tells me they're looking to see who's sharing their music without paying for it.

yes, this is the first attempt, we'll see what the second attempt will be like.

[reidme]

Musicians and the music industry have a right to be upset about illegal copying of music. If you feel the price is too high for a song, then don't buy it. There is nothing inherent in art that makes it everyone's right to own a free copy.

I'm not involved in the music industry at all, but if someone was downloading a portion of my paycheck from the internet I'd be upset and I suspect most people would feel the same way.

[Brad Adrian]

Oh oh! Doesn't that mean that it is now a felony to produce, own, or transport a felt-tip marker???

When felt-tip pens are outlawed, only outlaws will have felt-tip pens!

[jsjxyz]

Big corp should learn from this joke of the century. I agree to Jeff Kirvin which analyze, customers actually does not really against DCMA as long as reasonable, this is the case of peanutpress.
I don't know about music, but I guest they should fing scheme where the mp3 ripe will have lesser quality (which it is) or something like that.

Well, Sony will change its walkman to deadmanwalking

[Ed Hansberry]

Musicians and the music industry have a right to be upset about illegal copying of music. If you feel the price is too high for a song, then don't buy it. There is nothing inherent in art that makes it everyone's right to own a free copy.

I'm not involved in the music industry at all, but if someone was downloading a portion of my paycheck from the internet I'd be upset and I suspect most people would feel the same way.
Illegal copying is wrong. No question about it. But violating the fair use clause of copyrighting material is wrong too. May not be illegal, but it is wrong.

I listen to CD's in a CD player about 5% of the time. The rest it is on my Pocket PC or PC. The first thing I generally do with a CD when I buy it is rip it to my laptop and store the CD in a holder in my trunk, where it is not likely to get touched until we take a road trip somewhere, 2-3 times a year, and then only if it is a CD that the whole family can agree on, which seems to be an ever decreasing percentage of my collection. :?

I don't care what DRM is used, but if they don't allow me to copy music to my PCs and Pocket PCs, screw 'em. I just won't buy them.

[TypeMRT]

The court recently denied the appeal of the ruling against 2600 magazine. That means, under the DMCA, even linking to a website that describes the "circumvention" is a violation. So is the RIAA going to sue PPC Thoughts, Slashdot, CNet, CNN...

[feo]

TOO FUNNY!!!
That makes 2 this week. I forgot where I read yesterday that somebody figured out how to beat biometrics with gummy bears. (that was the title of article, it was actually gelatin)
Feo.

[Paragon]

Excuse me sir, is that a Sharpie in your pocket?... Now very carefully using just two fingers gently remove it and drop it on the ground then step away. You are surrounded by heavily armed and well trained DRM special agents. Don't do anything foolish like take the top off it. We would have no choice but to open fire.

Geez! All I want to do is play the music I have paid for....wherever and however I choose. I do have that right don't I?

Dave

[thadrool]

Don't laugh too hard... They could easily move the copy protection track to the middle of the CD or a random location where it wouldn't be so easy to defeat. The point isn't that their first attempt was lame, but that they are making the attempt at all.

Good point, that was the first thought that came to my head as well. If they stuck it in the middle, try listening to that same CD with a big black ring on it. Goodbye tracks 10-15!

But, I agree with Ed on this. If there's a way to protect it, there's a way to unprotect it. Why not just sell digital copies and be done with it. History has showed again and again that, in a free society, you just can't take things away that people perceive they have a right to. Doing whatever you want with a CD after you purchase it is one of those rights.

Besides, this sort of attempt to reign in piracy is just affecting Sony's other divisions. Their latest NetMD minidisc technology is an excellent concept if not for that stupid OpenMG proprietary file transfer program. What waste of a good idea.

[reidme]

Illegal copying is wrong. No question about it. But violating the fair use clause of copyrighting material is wrong too. May not be illegal, but it is wrong.

I agree 100% (see my earlier post about the email I sent to SONY Music.) We have a right to legitimate uses of what we paid for and the music industry has a right to legitimate profits. The people abusing those rights are making trouble for everyone (as usual :roll: ). I just wish the music industry could find a way to pursue and prosecute those people without hamstringing the rest of us!

[sesummers]

They could easily move the copy protection track to the middle of the CD or a random location where it wouldn't be so easy to defeat.

No, I seriously doubt they could put it in the middle. I'd bet the reason it's at the end of the disc (CDs read from the inside out) is that regular dumb $20 CD players need to be able to play them. A data track in the middle of the music tracks would probably confuse an audio CD player just as badly as a scribbled line of black ink.

The technique apparently worked because computer CD drives look for data tracks first, and the one they added is corrupted so that the drive thinks it's a BAD data disc. It's apparently so corrupt that it CRASHES macs. But if the drive can't see the data track, it goes to the inside and looks for music tracks, and finds them. Problem solved.

[scottmag]

Musicians seem very well sided with the music companies, what was the heavy metal group that sued copyright infringers recently?

You're probably thinking of Metallica suing Napster. Drummer Lars Ulrich also testified before the US Congress about copyright infringement.

What I find most interesting about that was a little gem from the liner notes of Metallica's recent album "Garage, Inc." Lead vocalist James Hetfield says that in the early days of the band he would visit Lars and, "stay over at his house for days making tapes of his records and sleeping on the carpet."

Oh, sweet irony.

Scott

[reidme]

No, I seriously doubt they could put it in the middle. I'd bet the reason it's at the end of the disc (CDs read from the inside out) is that regular dumb $20 CD players need to be able to play them. A data track in the middle of the music tracks would probably confuse an audio CD player just as badly as a scribbled line of black ink.

The technique apparently worked because computer CD drives look for data tracks first, and the one they added is corrupted so that the drive thinks it's a BAD data disc. It's apparently so corrupt that it CRASHES macs. But if the drive can't see the data track, it goes to the inside and looks for music tracks, and finds them. Problem solved.

That's probably true, but I'll bet they can come up with some protection scheme that will be difficult (but not impossible) to beat. A determined hacker will beat any kind of protection. Only the legitimate users will be defeated by copy protection. :cry:

[mjaffe]

If you like that...how about this?
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=356797

Marc

[reidme]

If you like that...how about this?
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=356797

Marc

Now THAT'S funny! :lol:

[Will T Smith]

There's only one sure fire way to protect content against unauthorized distribution.


MAKE LEGITIMATE USE LESS EXPENSIVE THEN PIRACY!!!!!!!!!!


No one wants to make copies when high quality originals are available for a song (no pun intended).

The music industry is all about greed. The musicians are screwed constantly by them.

If you feel bad about copying an artists CD, mail them a quarter and you'll compensate them better than their publisher.


The only way to TRULY protect content from duplication is too individually encrypt EACH file for EACH user. Additionally decrypting must be done realtime in SECURED hardware. This would render SPDIF and optical output useless.

It would also be a nightmare to administrate legions of servers responsible for encoding data streams for individual licencees. Such media would not work in anyone else's players without moving digital "credentials" and than re-authorizing those credentials to a new device.

Good luck making all that work. It won't.

Down with the music industry. It's been a long time coming. I'll buy my music direct from the artist thank you. No idiot overdressed executives necessary.

[reidme]

There's only one sure fire way to protect content against unauthorized distribution.


MAKE LEGITIMATE USE LESS EXPENSIVE THEN PIRACY!!!!!!!!!!


Hmmm.... so by analogy, the auto industry should make cars cost less than bricks.

The music industry is all about greed. The musicians are screwed constantly by them.

Right. Thats why every band's dream is a deal with a major record label.

If you feel bad about copying an artists CD, mail them a quarter and you'll compensate them better than their publisher.

So how many quarters have you mailed? Or do you not feel bad about it.

I'll buy my music direct from the artist thank you. No idiot overdressed executives necessary.

Now that's a truly great idea. A web site as middle-man could pass on 95% of proceeds to the artist and make money on ads to boot. Then the artists would have a choice of dealing with them or the record label and the market would decide what's best. Do any sites like this exist? If not we should start one. :idea:

[Ed Hansberry]

The music industry is all about greed. The musicians are screwed constantly by them.

Right. Thats why every band's dream is a deal with a major record label.


That is the dream. It is usually when the nightmare begins. See http://www.aimeemann.com/bio/ - she basically quit the music business until she could put her own music out the way she wanted to.

[reidme]

That is the dream. It is usually when the nightmare begins. See http://www.aimeemann.com/bio/ - she basically quit the music business until she could put her own music out the way she wanted to.

Point taken. I like Aimee Mann and have some of her music (that I bought.) There are examples of corporate greed and people getting screwed in every industry, but the music industry may be worse than average. I'm absolutely against copy protection that interferes with legitimate use, but I'm also against theft. I doubt that illegal copying makes the industry any better for artists.

The music industry has this problem because cheap technology exists to make perfect copies of the product they sell. If you could buy a $200 device that would make perfect working copies of a BMW, you can bet the auto industry would be looking into copy protection. If the technique they used kept you from pulling the car you paid for into your garage, then you'd basically have the situation we have with these copy-protected CDs.

What about the idea of a web site as an alternative to the record labels that would connect musicians directly with customers? This is basically what mp3.com does and the record labels hate it. If people don't want the record labels to get their money, use an alternative. I still think it will be a while before the average band would rather sell their music that way, and even if a song just cost one cent there would still be people who would rather steal it.

Off Topic - I'm a big fan of Pocket PC Thoughts. Its the first site I check every day and has been for a while. This is the first topic that's gotten me motivated to post since you switched to registration a while back. Sorry if I've been too windy.

[Ed Hansberry]

Point taken. I like Aimee Mann and have some of her music (that I bought.)

Off Topic - I'm a big fan of Pocket PC Thoughts. Its the first site I check every day and has been for a while. This is the first topic that's gotten me motivated to post since you switched to registration a while back. Sorry if I've been too windy.

I like her too. I own both the soundtrack to Magnolia and her Bachelor #2, plus I downloaded some of her 'Til Tuesday stuff because the tape I purchased 12 years ago has long since worn out - but I'll be darned if I'll buy it again! :evil: I just noticed some other stuff on www.aimeemanndirect.com - hmmm... I'll have to download some stuff and see if it is worth purchasing the whole thing.

And glad to have you posting! :D

[Dan East]

Sony’s proprietary technology, deployed on many recent releases, works by adding a track to the copy-protected disc that contains bogus data.

Regardless of where this "bogus" track is placed, couldn't the OS or drivers be tweaked to ignore the data tracks containg bogus info? Obviously this isn't a physical problem with reading the disc, as much as a software issue in that they are trying to force the PC to do something that crashes it or causes it to dismiss the disc as invalid. Again, this seems like something that could be worked around at the software level with a hacked driver or two.

Personally, I'm always happy to see Sony fall flat on their face. Their aspiration is obviously to be to consumer electronics what Microsoft is to personal computers. I can't imagine why any educated consumer would want another Microsoft-ish monopoly out there. At least Microsoft is based in the US.

Dan East

[soulbarn]

I, personally, am delighted that Sony's scheme failed. I say this as a professional writer who has been paid for his intellectual property - and has also had it ripped off (you can find at least one thing I created on Kazaa right now, with thousands of downloads.)

It isn't nice or even right to get stolen from. But the record companies and the rest of the entertainment industry are in the f*** the artists business. You wouldn't believe the terrilble things that go on. I'm not complaining - after all, I could just move to Mexico and go back to the land - but I really have no big problem with users ripping me off. I'd rather they get my work for free than have one of my distributors charge twenty bucks for something I've done (which is what they do) so that I can receive - once a year - a royalty check for about ten dollars, even though hundreds of thousands of people see my work, and ads are sold based on it, every year, year after year.

I know I signed the deal that more or less screws me, and I have no regrets - even though I had no choice (sign, or don't sell, basically.) What I want to see is a change in the system, even if it means my living is threatened. Don't get me wrong. I want to get rich. I want my publishers to get rich. I want my audience to have easy access to my work. I really, truly, believe that all three of these things are possible.

What's standing in the way is the greed of the record and entertainment companies. It is entirely possible for this golden egg to be shared among all three parties, to the satisfaction of all. Until then, I have no problem with people downloading anything I've created on Kazaa - or marking up all the CDs they want with sharpies.

thanks,

- D.

[CoffeeKid]

You know what's next... The music companies will demand a new tax on all felt-tip pens, with the proceeds going to them to offset the "piracy"...

:)

Only in Canada, where they can get away with this kinda crap.

Mark

[st63z]

Heh yeah, it kinda seems like there's no "middle ground" as artists are often divided into either camp. For every Metallica, there seems to be an equally outspoken critic of the labels and the current screwed up system (even among big-name artists).

Maybe, some of the aspiring artists "dream" of making it with a label only because that's the reality of the current business. Many of them may in fact root for an alternative system if given the choice (such as the aforementioned theoretical online-delivery/micro-payment system where they rightfully pocket a bigger piece of the pie)...?

Then again, I always get confused when discussing moral vs. legal "right" as I'm not really qualified (what was my point? I forget)...

[CoffeeKid]

Heh yeah, it kinda seems like there's no "middle ground" as artists are often divided into either camp. For every Metallica, there seems to be an equally outspoken critic of the labels and the current screwed up system (even among big-name artists).

Yep. I remember Courtney Love's rant over on Salon... I wonder if I can find the link...

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/

Awesome read, changed my opinion of her.

Mark

[Kre]

I have one thing to say. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Yeah, thats right. I second that.


...we have the RIGHT to make a private copy of our music.

Yeah, thats right. I second that, too.


Instead of expending your energy on more DRM (Digital Rights Madness) technology, how about giving us the ability to legally purchase, not rent, songs over the internet for a buck each? Until you do that, Morpheus, Kazaa, or something will continue to fulfill our desire for that one song we want without having to buy a $15 CD. $16 after we buy a Sharpie (http://mrboxonline.com/SUPERSHARPIEINFO.HTML) to circumvent your copy protection scheme. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

And thats true as well.

Just think... consumers buying only the songs they want and that they think are good. It really needs to go to this. But when this happens, this will motivate both artists and record companies to write better songs, instead of putting out records with twelve songs, where only two or three are good and the rest are crap. Not to mention, I really believe this will really cut down a huge percentage of piracy. I just hope it wont take forever for record companies to see this.

But this whole idea of people not being able to rip their CDs to their HDDs for listening or for loading onto an mp3 player, is just stupid. These guys think they have the right to tell people what to do in the privacy of their own homes. But they dont. So when I hear about multi million dollar technology being defeated with a stupid fifty cent Sharpie, its like smackin these arrogant suits back to reality.

Protecting your investment is one thing, but taking peoples rights away will never be tolerated. They have to realize that this is going to require a compromise. Its not going to be a one sided victory. But not allowing me to copy a song onto my computer so that I can load it into an mp3 player is hardly a compromise. Record companies are going to have to be flexible whether they like it or not.

Well, time to go... Office Depot has a Sharpie with my name on it.