ActiveSync is Evil, Part 1 [Archive]

Jason Dunn

05-15-2002, 07:01 AM

In the past week, I've had two major data losses, all courtesy of ActiveSync. There's simply no other way to say this: ActiveSync is the worst piece of Microsoft software I've encountered in my entire life. Never have I encountered an application capable of such wanton destruction of data. It's like a poisonous viper - you think you know what you're doing with it, but the slightest misstep, and you're dead. I'll write up the REALLY bad one later today, but here's what just happened to me last night. I'm still pondering the issue, half in shock. I had reformatted my hard drive on Saturday, and I've spent a few days installing XP, all my apps, and getting things tweaked the way I like them. Over the past few days, I've been using Pocket Excel to create a technology budget for my church. I also took an inventory of all the computers they have - I spent around four hours on both of the documents. Today I installed ActiveSync, thinking "This should be nice and clean." I docked my Jornada 565, and it recognized that I had a previous partnership (from before the format). I told it that I wanted to only partner with this computer (thus deleting the previous partnership data). It then went ahead and compared the data on the Pocket PC and on the desktop. As I knew it would, it recognized that there was different data on the Pocket PC vs. the desktop. It gave me the deadly prompt: "Combine, replace, or remove?" <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/pure-evil.gif" /> One would think that "Combine" would be the good thing to do, but as anyone who has done that several times will tell you, you'll end up with massive duplication of your data - and there's also a mysterious birthday shifting bug that will sometimes move all your birthdays off by one day. I've seen this happen time and time again. The screen shot above shows "Favorites, Files" because I had to sync my iPAQ 3870 in order to get this screen shot - when I docked the Jornada, it prompted me for action on "Calendar, Tasks, Inbox, and Contacts" - no mention of Files or Favourites. Since I knew I had added no new contacts, appointments, email or tasks - only the two Excel files - I thought it was safe to chose "Replace" as the option. It would simply replace all PIM data, and sync the files from the Pocket PC to the desktop PC. Right? Wrong. It purged all the new files from the My Documents folder on the Pocket PC, deleting the two Excel files I had created. There's no trace of the data - I checked in this folder, which keeps copies of deleted synchronized data: C:\Documents and Settings\ Jason Dunn \ Application Data\ Microsoft\ ActiveSync\ Profiles\ LittleShogun\ Synchronized Files Backup But I discovered it only keeps track of documents on the PC, not on the Pocket PC. So, incredibly, I've lost both those Excel files and can't get them back. Why did ActiveSync delete files when I only told it to replace PIM data? Why doesn't it prompt the user when it's about to destroy data? I'm really kicking myself because I was going to make a copy of the My Documents folder on the Pocket PC just in case, but I thought "Nah, I know what I'm doing" - famous last words. Have you ever lost data due to ActiveSync? How did it happen? Vote in the poll!

ppcsurfr

05-15-2002, 07:34 AM

It happened to me way back when I was just starting out with with Windows CE... at that time 2.01.

Now with Windows CE 3.0... the same problem still remains. It is a problem if you are not careful...

Files are volatile in a PPC. It isn't backed up and there is no recycle bin. That is why they always say back up your data.

Since 1999, I've been moving all my documents and excel files from the main memory to the storage card... why? You can't erase the one in the storage card by accident. And whenever I reformat my PC, I make sure that I synchronize my PPC to my desktop first and then back up my PIM. I also make sure that the My Documents folder of the PPC is empty and that all te documents or files have been transferred into a CF card or written onto a CD or saved in a zip disk.

Whenever I create a new partnership, I always select overwrite PPC data... so actually if you are asking me if I ever lost any data with my Pocket PC in a way that nearly resembles your experience... No... never... I've been too careful about it.

Anyway... next time you do that, please remember that PIM data can be backed up in the PC or the PPC... and all docs/file in the My documents folder can be moved to a CF card for safe storage until all formatting and setup is done.

ppcsurfr

ram

05-15-2002, 07:38 AM

Jason,

Thanks for bringing this up. I thought i was the only one having this problem. I have seen no updates for the past several months either to the pocketpc website (check their columns, reviews, howtodos etc) nor have I seen any statement acknowledging the bugs and assuring the customers that they are working on them..

Is microsoft dreaming that since they have windows monopoly, they can force users to buy pocketpc (to some extent, that was the reason I bought it, now i am rethinking as palm is moving to OS 5).

Whatever happened to pocketpc club membership? I receive an email once in 6 months saying that the club is still alive!!!

I have only found hating my handheld more than loving it eventhough, the hardware and software specs are great. I like the idea of seemless linking to word, excel, email etc. But whatever you say, the basic pocketpc apps (calendar, todo, notepad) are crappy and the UI is not yet upto par with palm (i just love the idea of multiple drop down menus which are hidden!) Alternatives such as pocketinformant, agendafusion do some good but they are no match to datebook.

Eventhough i used palm only for a few months, i am now tempted to move back again and buy sony (if only they had CF instead of that propreitary stick)..

Ok, before everyone thinks I am rambling, can jason or dale coffing or anyone with direct contact with microsoft pocketpc management tell if microsoft is sleeping!!

-ram

cludwig

05-15-2002, 08:04 AM

I learnd early on that synchronization is useful for what it does... keeping things synched between your "running" (ie unchanged) PC and a "running" (ie didn't freakin' hard reset itself) PocketPC.

For any other situation, you'll be sorry if you don't set ActiveSync to "Automatically Backup" on each sync.

Yes, it's slow as heck (especially over USB or Serial... not to mention IRDA -- Ethernet or 802.11b is much more livable) but it's _SO_ worth it.

When bad things happen (and with old iPaq's battery life and lack of backup battery they often enough do), I'm so happy to be able to connect with a Guest partnership and do a Restore.

Venturello

05-15-2002, 08:53 AM

I am a huuuuge pocket pc fan, and I think Palm's are ridicously outdated by them (which they are technologically).

Anyway, I havent touched a Palm for the last 3 years, always using a Pocket PC, and had to go through several repairs, dead bateries, etc, and restoration of data. The whole works, you could say, and also missing files, duplicated entries, etc.

This last month I have been programming for the Palm platform. Dealing with the devil, you might say, but it is what the client wants. No filesystem, dead simple OS. Although I prefer programming for the Pocket PC (familiar programming, very similar to PC, file system, way much faster cpu, higher res, etc) in this Palm is still unbeatable. Hotsync WORKS. Erase all your Palm's memory, hotsync it again using the same user, and everything is back to where you left it. It is a pleasure. All has to do with that everything on the palm, including programs, are databases.

Activesync is more... ambitious in what it tries to do. And it works wonderful, most of the time... but as Jason can now say, when it doesnt... well, it can ruin your day badly.

Sorry Jason. Hope the lost is fast to recover.

Sincerely,

Juan Miguel Venturello

But as

jwf

05-15-2002, 09:13 AM

tank2000

05-15-2002, 09:26 AM

Hmm, I remember *someone* who posted a topic about how bad Palm's HotSync was and how good ActiveSync 3.5 was, not so very long ago... :twisted:

Anyway, yes, I've had problems with ActiveSync before - namely the duplication of files.

Like everyone, I don't understand why there is no "Handheld overwrites desktop " option like in HotSync. This option would be great to keep my two desktop PCs synched with the same info instead of the weird copying that sometimes goes on.

Kre

05-15-2002, 10:04 AM

Oh boy. Dont get me started on ActiveCrap. Oops, too late.

Ill tell ya, Jason, my experience with this RottingStync software is really bad, too. You can read this and tell me whether what you dealt with is as bad as my circumstances.

But first things first... HEY MICROSOFT! REQUEST... GET YER HEADS OUT OF THE SAND! FIX THIS SOFTWARE! HOW LONG WILL THIS TAKE FOR YOU TO FIGURE OUT THAT A `FROM THE GROUND UP REWRITE` IS NECESSARY HERE?!?????? YOU WILL NEVER HAVE THE MARKET SHARE YOU WANT IF THIS IS THE BEST YOU CAN DO. End Request.

OK, now that thats over, let me tell you, I cant agree with you more about how bad this software is. How does MS expect to achieve the success theyre looking for without fixing this? The answer is, of course, they cant. Everybody knows this.

I have a lot of files on my system, but forty percent of them were text files. The key word here is `were`. Word, Excel, and plain text files. So I had all of these files in the sync folder on my system. But I sold an Ipaq that I had. So I no longer needed this partnership on my system. Just moments before I was going to back up the files on my laptop, I cleaned up a few things, which included deleting this old partnership. I didnt uninstall Active Sync, I just deleted the partnership, thinking that the files would be left, because, why wouldnt they? Oh no. Of course not. ALL of my files were deleted. All of them. This crap software didnt ask me if I wanted to keep my files, send them to another folder, send them to the recycle bin, or anything. This software asked me absolutely nothing. And there is no trace of the files. Anywhere. It just assumed that because I was deleting this partnership, that I didnt want all of my precious files and information. HUH?!? Why would MS write software so blatently stupid like this? Maybe I wanted to delete the partnership because I bought another pocket pc and wanted to establish a NEW partnership. Maybe I deleted it because I wanted to transfer my info to another system and no longer needed the partnership on the first system. There could be a million reasons why someone would delete a partnership. The act of deleting a partnership has absolutely nothing to do with information created on my laptop. Of course I want to keep this information! Peoples lives are contained on the hard drives of their computers. We spend weeks, months, years developing these files, and MS thinks that when deleting a partnership, this means that all of this precious information is no longer wanted or needed. Yeah, Microsoft, Im just going to discard all of my files because life just cant go on without Active Sync running on my system. Stupid. RottenStync is pathetic to say the least. Software should be written to be smart enough to realize that preservation of data is number one in all circumstances.

So instead of going out and maybe buying myself a new DVD player and some movies or something else thats fun, I have to spend this money to have a data recovery engineer try to recover the files, which of course, is expensive and time consuming, and leaves me without use of my system for as long as it takes for this procedure to be completed. Maybe I should send Microsoft a bill.

Youd think after fifty billion complaints, theyd figure out that its time to do a rewrite. No more wimpy patches or upgrades. They need to discard this crap like garbage and start all over from scratch. No consumer should be inconvenienced like this. Ever. I made no mistakes here. This is just simply a poor excuse for software. I know others have had luck with this software, but these users are, without a doubt, in the minority, because most of us have just had too many problems with it. It just makes me boil.

I love pocket pc`s. But a piece of advice to anyone purchasing one... If you see the name ActiveSync, turn and run. Far and fast. Dont use it. After all of this, could I be expected to think differently? How could I ever trust it in any other circumstance?

FredMurphy

05-15-2002, 10:42 AM

Notes can vanish without trace too. Lost some important stuff that way.

All it would take is to stick them in Outlook's "Deleted Items" but no chance - gone for good.

Mr. Anonymous

05-15-2002, 11:30 AM

ActiveStink is even more fun if you have partnerships between your Pocket PC and two computers. From time to time one computer will be absolutely convinced that all of the data on your Pocket PC is new and has never been synced before, giving you the dreaded 'combine, replace, delete, managle all data beyond recognition' dialog box. Ugh.

I too wish there was a 'my Pocket PC overwrites everything option.' I've found that if the PC has no data and the Pocket PC has data, then combine will work just like a 'replace with data from my Pocket PC' option would. The workaround I use is a) on my work PC which uses Outlook connecting to an Exchange Service I cancel out of the dialog box, delete the partnership, then delete all of my data in Outlook and move the 'My Pocket PC Files' folder to a backup location. Then I sync, recreate the partnership, and choose combine. b) On my desktop PC which uses Outlook locally without an Exchange server I cancel out of the dialog box, move the 'My Pocket PC Files' and my local Outlook file (for me it's in c:\Documents and Settings\my user name\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook\Outlook.pst) to a backup location and delete the originals, then recreate the partnership, and choose combine.

It's worked every time for me so far and I always have a backup of the data on my PC.

van_mierlo

05-15-2002, 12:50 PM

After I had the same problem with the Time sheets of my 50 employees I started using my storage card alittle bit more for these safety issues.
If you have a storage card make sure you use it for your documents.....otherwise things like Jason describes will eventually happen to you or if your ppc needs a hard reset then it's gone to...the only way to remove something from your storage card is to remove it yourself

Ed Hansberry

05-15-2002, 01:08 PM

Activesync has never caused me to lose data, but I think it is because I am a bit paranoid about it and assume it is going to mess something up. :cry: I never let it combine. Any time I am unsure about a data file, I always copy it to another folder outside of My Documents so ActiveSync won't touch it. And when rebuilding a PC, I sync one final time to ensure my PC data file (Exchange server in my case) as the correct data, copy my PC's My Documents to a server and then blow the PC away with a reformat. I then assume that anything new I do to my Pocket PC will be lost because on the first sync after my software is installed, I tell AS to clear my Pocket PC.

It shouldn't be this hard.

And yes, the shifting birthday's and anniversaries are annoying at best.

Anyone had a messed up recurring task? If you change the task on the PPC after several "completions" and sync back, the task reverts back to the original start date. :evil: You then have to check off (in my case) several dozen tasks when this happens.

Hey, can I change my vote to yes??!!?

rbj

05-15-2002, 01:42 PM

I've never understood why ActiveSync doesn't have an option that allows you to overwrite the desktop from the handheld. Often I've had to resort to my 'PIM backup' on my Palm V, as this allows me to simply overwrite all the Outlook data on the desktop with the PDA's data.

LOL We don't want that! If it worked consistantly with replace data on the Pocket PC, it would wipe out all documents on our desktop except those on the Pocket PC!

When I read Jason's article, I thought "I learned this years ago." I have lost data, but it has been a long time. Starting a new partnership is very tricky. Once you understand it, you can keep from losing data. Unfortunately you have to learn the hard way and ActiveSync has not improved in that area since I have been using it with CE 2.0.

Mr. Anonymous

05-15-2002, 02:27 PM

I've never understood why ActiveSync doesn't have an option that allows you to overwrite the desktop from the handheld. Often I've had to resort to my 'PIM backup' on my Palm V, as this allows me to simply overwrite all the Outlook data on the desktop with the PDA's data.

LOL We don't want that! If it worked consistantly with replace data on the Pocket PC, it would wipe out all documents on our desktop except those on the Pocket PC!

Uh, some of us do want a 'Handheld overwrites PC' option. My Pocket PC is usually my latest copy of data, and the place I mainly interact with that data. The PC is just a big box where it all gets synced and backed up to so I can occassionally view it on a larger monitor.

iPAUL

05-15-2002, 02:30 PM

Yes... I agree with most here. After losing data in ActiveSync, I do feel there is room for Microsoft to improve this software.

There indeed should be an option for the Device to overwrite the Desktop.

I have had calendar events, tasks, and addresses duplicated, and then duplicated again - giving me 4 entries for everything I had stored!

:roll:

o well

iPAUL

TMAN

05-15-2002, 02:30 PM

I have to agree with everything mentioned here. I will add one thing though, I HATE having to create a partnership with my work computer first because I want email.

Because of all of the ActiveSync problems I have resorted to having my home computer sync Calendar, Contact, Tasks, HPC Notes, Monye, Files, Vindigo, and AvantGo. I only sync email on my computer at work.

For one, if you want to sync email with one machine, you should be able to create a partnership with that computer anytime.

I have also found that if something gets FUBAR'd in the email sync at work and it wants to do the Combine, Replace crap on just the email I will get a Combine, Replace Dialog on ALL DATA on my home machine. What the hell is all that about?

Oh yah what the hell is that Resummarization Marker.1 file? Ever notice that the file gets created multiple times on the Pocket PC when these Combine Replace problems creep up?

I forgot to add that my Windows XP machine at work just suddenly stops connecting to my Pocket PC. I have to use the Get Connected wizard. Sometimes this does not even work.

I have to delete the partnership and recreate. Then delete data on that machine and resync.

jwf

05-15-2002, 02:37 PM

LOL We don't want that! If it worked consistantly with replace data on the Pocket PC, it would wipe out all documents on our desktop except those on the Pocket PC!

The option should available for each conduit, so you could choose which ones to do. Also, your Pocket PC files sync doesn't sync everything on the desktop, it syncs the Pocket PC My Documents folder, doesn't it?

Another nice thing about the Palm conduits is that you can get to the conduit configuration dialog at any time. So if I really need to overwrite my Outlook tasks from the Palm I can configure it to do that manually. I don't think AS allows you to do this - you have to wait for the dialog.

jeff

05-15-2002, 02:58 PM

I lost files in the exact same manner as Jason. I had written some stuff for my web site on my Pocket PC while my desktop was "under construction" and lost everything new on the PPC side when I synched.

I've also lost e-mail because of ActiveSync's lack of a PPC overwrites desktop option. I had accidentally deleted all the messages in the Inbox of my Exchange account when monkeying around with a POP3 mail client. Everything was totally gone, not even in the Deleted Items folder of the Exchange mailbox. The only remaining copy of my mail was on my Pocket PC. Could I somehow use that to replace the lost messages on the Exchange server? Nope. There's no sync option which doesn't delete every item from the Pocket PC.

And that doesn't even factor in the data loss that comes from poor Word document round tripping. There's really no excuse for permanently deleting data without warning, yet ActiveSync does it regularly.

Jeff

griph

05-15-2002, 03:02 PM

Notes can vanish without trace too. Lost some important stuff that way.

All it would take is to stick them in Outlook's "Deleted Items" but no chance - gone for good.

The worst from my point of view is that the calendar sync is set BY DEFAULT to only the last two weeks of entries - for those not wise to this it is so easy to loose your whole Outlook and PPC agenda entries beyond the two weeks before you even know it has happened.

I am also having major probs with my iPaq 3870 Activesync 3.5 (12007) - when disconnecting from the PC and then trying to reconnect it fails. I have to reset the iPaq and Ctrl Alt del close the PC Activesync and restart it in order to be able to reconnect. Why??

Brad Adrian

05-15-2002, 03:07 PM

This crap software didnt ask me if I wanted to keep my files, send them to another folder, send them to the recycle bin, or anything. This software asked me absolutely nothing.

That's really strange. EVERY time I delete a partnership, I'm prompted about whether I want to keep the files in my synchronized folder. Every time, without fail.

That's not to say that AS is great; it's burned me plenty. I wish I had a dime for every time I had to resynch all 3,000 of my calendar events. One answer I've found that doesn't take as long as doing a lengthy AS backup every day is to set up an automated backup of the synch folder on my PC every day. It's done in a flash and can run when I'm away from my desk, when I'm typically using my Pocket PC.

Marc Zimmermann

05-15-2002, 03:17 PM

Activesync has never caused me to lose data, but I think it is because I am a bit paranoid about it and assume it is going to mess something up. :cry: I never let it combine. Any time I am unsure about a data file, I always copy it to another folder outside of My Documents so ActiveSync won't touch it. And when rebuilding a PC, I sync one final time to ensure my PC data file (Exchange server in my case) as the correct data, copy my PC's My Documents to a server and then blow the PC away with a reformat.

Yup, just my thoughts! Sync before you reformat. Never combine. Assume all data to be gone during partnership creation.

Even though it should conceptually work, Jason has fallen into one of the traps by assuming that it worked like he thought it should work. Replacing data on the device with data from the PC essentially wipes the data category on the handheld and syncs everything from the PC. Otherwise it would be combine.

And I really wouldn't have risked a file that I've been working on for a few hours this way. I certainly would've copied it to a storage card if it hadn't been synchronized.

There's definitely room for improvement in ActiveSync. But as long as you know what to do and what to avoid in combination with good USB hardware, it's actually quite hassle-free.

ebrzez

05-15-2002, 03:19 PM

It gets worse...

I recently found out the hard way that Outlook has a 2gb limit.

It fails fatally with out warning :(

After I restarted a new Outlook instance I dropped my iPaq into the cradle and got the same screen as Jason at the start of this post.

Everything looked ok as it went along.

When it was finished the data on my iPaq was gone and nothing was on my desktop...

Recovery took a few days to get back where I was before all this happened. Luckilly I had some copies of my .pst file saved away on a periodic basis.

Ed

See also:

Outlook beyond 2gb

http://support.microsoft.com/directory/article.asp?ID=KB;EN-US;Q296088&

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q266709

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q208480

http://www.slipstick.com/problems/repair2gbpst.htm

http://www.outlook.unh.edu/faq/Faq2002.html

What do I do if my .pst file approaches the 2GB size limit?
If a .pst file exceeds 2GB, Outlook can't open it. The pst2gb.exe tool, which you can get from Microsoft Product Support Services (click here to download), can help you recover most of your data, but you probably won't get it all back. Try to keep any .pst files well under that 2GB limit. To maintain reasonably sized .pst files, delete messages you don't need to keep, empty the Deleted Items folder regularly or automatically, and occasionally compact the .pst file to remove the empty space that remains after you delete items. To compact the .pst file, right-click Outlook Today, click Advanced, and click Compact Now.

http://support.microsoft.com/?id=kb;;q296088

Steven Cedrone

05-15-2002, 03:21 PM

I've never understood why ActiveSync doesn't have an option that allows you to overwrite the desktop from the handheld.

I have been bitchin' about this since the first time I was burned by AS.....

When I get the dreaded screen that Jason showed us, the first thing I do is Pull the Pocket PC and do a backup to CF of everything........

On a side note, wasn't there a piece of software (prayerware) that was supposed to clean up duplicate Outlook entries if you did do a combine? I think I saw it here/Dales' site. Anyone try/remember that software??????

mhowie

05-15-2002, 04:23 PM

So is going back to the Palm OS world a viable alternative? I have been a Pocket PC convertee for over two years, and find I do not use my Jornada for .mp3 listening any longer (bought an inexpensive, small player for that).

I still do not have a wireless network set up at my house, and aside from the novelty of it, really question the value of being able to walk around with my Pocket PC surfing the Internet on a mini screen when I can walk to my office and surf/email/etc. on a "big" screen.

I use my Pocket PC as a PIM, for spreadsheet work, some graphics viewing, and as a reference tool (TomeRaider).

Aside from the graphics viewing integration with my digital camera (CF card swappability), is the Pocket PC truly superior to say, a Sony Clie? Although Pocket Informant has made massive strides since its inception, I would be surprised if the latest iteration of DateBkX is not still superior as a PIM. There are very adequate "Office" programs for the Palm OS and I think TomeRaider and other programs of that ilk are available for the Palm.

Given the relative ease with which HotSync functions (speed, reliability, etc.) compared to ActiveSync, along with the other advantages pointed out in this thread, I am seriously asking the question... Are you sure the Pocket PC is the right choice for you?

I would be interested to hear your opinions...

Thanks,

BrianCooksey

05-15-2002, 04:39 PM

After reinstalling a pocketPC, they sync process decided that all data on the PPC took prececence and deleted about a month's worth of transactions from my desktop MS Money database.

Thankfully, I backup my Money database anytime I do any significant work, but becuase of other considerations I couldn't go straight to backup and had augment the backup with some data from the damaged copy that had been copied from the PPC.

I know some of the challenges of replication because I've written replication engines before, but that only makes it a little more frustrating! 8O

So I tread lightly and backup...

Jason Lee

05-15-2002, 04:46 PM

I argee, there NEEDS to be an option to raplace all data on the pc. I always have my most updated info on my Ipaq not on my pc.
When rebuilding my Ipaq or pc I sync one last time and back everything up to a storage card. But reestablishing partnerships with my office and home computers really messes with my data.
Every time I sync it says that all 18 of my moble favorites have to be synced. Then sometimes one is unresolved. I NEVER change them, yet they sync every time.
Also when I open and existing word document to take notes in class on my ppc then return to my office to sync it, as it should, updates the file. However after it finnishes the sync it says there is still one file unsynced. If you sync again it deletes the file form the desktop but leaves it on the ppc and thinks that it is synced. You have to alter the file on the ppc to get it to sync back to the pc again.

yeah.. It sux but it works better than anyother alternative.

jdhill

05-15-2002, 05:20 PM

So is going back to the Palm OS world a viable alternative?
(snip)
Given the relative ease with which HotSync functions (speed, reliability, etc.) compared to ActiveSync, along with the other advantages pointed out in this thread, I am seriously asking the question... Are you sure the Pocket PC is the right choice for you?

I would be interested to hear your opinions...

Thanks,
I've have owned way too many PDAs over the years. I've owned a Handspring Visor. I had just as many problems with HotSync as I have with ActiveSync. I've owned a Psion Revo. I had just as many problems with the EPOC sync program as I have with ActiveSync.

I currently sync both a desktop and a laptop to an Exchange Server using Outlook offline folders. I sync the desktop with a Casio E-200, a RIM Blackberry, a REX 6000, and a NeoPoint 1000 phone. I get duplicate items! I get deleted items! I get conflicting updates! You name it, I get it. :cry:

It appears that sycnronization is still a "work in progress". None of the sync engines I've used (ActiveSync, HotSync, EPOC sync, IntelliSync, TrueSync, etc.) seem to work flawlessly all of the time.

My defenses include frequent backups, storing PocketPC documents on a CF or SD card, viewing the details that IntelliSync gives you on changes (that would be a nice thing to add to ActiveSync), and careful resolution of conflicting updates.

May we all live long enough to see a universal sync engine that helps us intelligently resolve conflicting updates, and that NEVER loses data !!! :P

GadgetGuy

05-15-2002, 05:41 PM

I've never understood why ActiveSync doesn't have an option that allows you to overwrite the desktop from the handheld.

DITTO! Hey, the Palm lets you do that!

I want to keep my laptop in sync with the desktop and iPAQ. But I don't sync with the laptop as much and that can make Outlook woefully out of date.

Why can't the PPC be the main conduit for keeping laptop and desktop on the same page?

And, when you really think about it, why should you have to even try to use the PPC as an intermediary between laptop and desktop? Outlook is designed as though no one has more than one computer!

I would switch my main PIM in a heartbeat if I knew of one that could sync laptop, desktop and PPC painlessly.

I'm open to suggestion!

Thanks.

jdhill

05-15-2002, 06:14 PM

And, when you really think about it, why should you have to even try to use the PPC as an intermediary between laptop and desktop? Outlook is designed as though no one has more than one computer!

I would switch my main PIM in a heartbeat if I knew of one that could sync laptop, desktop and PPC painlessly.

I'm open to suggestion!

Thanks.
It depends on how you use Outlook. If you are using Outlook as a client for an Exchange Server, then both the laptop and the desktop can be set up to use Outlook Offline Folders to sync with the Exchange Server. You can then sync the PPC with either the laptop or the desktop. As I mentioned in my post above, I am set up this way. This works well most of the time. However, the bothersome thing about this setup is when you have reminders set up on appointments, and you postpone them on more than one client (desktop or laptop or PPC) then you get a conflicting update message since neither ActiveSync nor the Outlook Offline Folder sync is smart enough to figure out that the only difference in the appointments is that you've postponed the reminder to a different time (there should be an option in this case to automatically select either the earliest or the latest reminder time).

Jason Dunn

05-15-2002, 06:42 PM

I didnt uninstall Active Sync, I just deleted the partnership, thinking that the files would be left, because, why wouldnt they? Oh no. Of course not. ALL of my files were deleted. All of them. This crap software didnt ask me if I wanted to keep my files, send them to another folder, send them to the recycle bin, or anything.

Something is wrong here - when you delete a partnership, ActiveSync specifically prompts you whether or not you want to delete the files associated with that partnership. It's one of the few things that ActiveSync does properly as it relates to saving your data. :twisted: If it didn't prompt you, jeese, that sucks even worse than I thought. It should NEVER allow data to be deleted without a strong prompt that explains what is about to happen to the user.

Tari Akpodiete

05-15-2002, 06:51 PM

well, i've been lucky so far, and after hearing about so many horror shows, i'm keeping my fingers crossed for sure.

anyway, what are some alternatives?

Jason Dunn

05-15-2002, 06:58 PM

Hmm, I remember *someone* who posted a topic about how bad Palm's HotSync was and how good ActiveSync 3.5 was, not so very long ago... :twisted:

It wasn't me. :-) You're thinking of Jeff Kirvin's post where he was talking about how he didn't have any problems docking and connecting - the thing is, ActiveSync really isn't that bad at connecting. My real anger here is the wanton destruction of my data...

clach04

05-15-2002, 08:03 PM

As every one else said, PocketPC overwrite Desktop is badly needed, along with a deceient merge wizard/dialouge (that every other sync package aI've ever used has had) that can show the differences and you can choose which fields update where.

RE duplicate removers http://www.teamscope.com/free_utilities.htm
and http://www.hlyspirit.org.uk/outlook.php

I've a follow on question what happens to people's birthday and annaversay entries on syncing? My PC has the birthday/anniversay info for people BUT on my PocketPC the contacts database does NOT, the information is in the calander but if you want to see when Fred Smith's birthday is I have to scan through the calander! :-( Is this what every one has or do I have a "special" configuration?

Chris

Brad Adrian

05-15-2002, 08:58 PM

...but if you want to see when Fred Smith's birthday is I have to scan through the calander!

It's April 16th.

Seriously, don't you see a field in your Pocket PC Contacts for birthday? I believe it's a toggle somewhere in desktop Outlook that determines whether Contacts birthdays appear in the Calendar, which in turn sends them to the Pocket PC Calendar. It would seem that in your system the birthdays have been entered into the Calendar, not the Contacts info.

clach04

05-15-2002, 09:16 PM

:-)

Thanks, I'll check it out when I get home (I can't see an option like that on my work machine - which is not partnered with my PPC for PIM stuff, just files).

I can see the field for birthday (and anniversay) on the PocketPC (once I go into edit mode) but they are all set to "None". On (my home) the desktop it's in both the contact and the calendar.

Chris

gamboagarcia

05-15-2002, 09:20 PM

Mmm, interesting thread.

ActiveSync has done the samething to me, (dups, deleted files, etc.) and worst:

I had a J548, and upgrated to J568 so in the swaping time I did a PIM Backup from the old J548, knowing this issues, so when I finally did the sync with the new PPC I could restore the data from the restore file stored in my CF. Guess what....

a message appears saying something like: " This restore files belongs to other PPC, Restore process can´t be done"

dma1965

05-16-2002, 12:10 AM

Jason,

If you own a Harley, you better have a good mechanic !

If you smoke, you better have a good health plan !!

If you are going to use Windows in any flavor, YOU BETTER BACK UP !!!!

I back up all my synced folder documents constantly with both Datakeeper and FileBack PC and keep 5 versions of each file. Once a month I back them all up to cdrw, and I back up both to my file server at work and at home, plus twice a week I copy the contents of the My Documents folder to the iPaq filestore and a CF card. Is this overkill?, maybe, but it does not take long to do it. Backing up is not an option in Windows, it is a priority. I got burned by Windows one time, about 3 years ago, and have been backing up like a junkie looking for crack ever since. :!:

Johnny Hieber

05-16-2002, 12:11 AM

I too have been badly burned by ActiveSync. It cannot be trusted for any unbacked up data.

I have been using Sprite Backup. It only takes about 10 minutes for a full backup to a CF microdrive.

This means that backups can be done daily. The backup files can then be transferred to a PC, and saved in an ongoing archive of past backups.

If you have card storage, this software will remove your fear of using ActiveSync. Purchasing Sprite Backup was a hassle, but the software works great.

I have had a miserable time with ActiveSync backup, because it hangs up.

clach04

05-16-2002, 12:19 AM

RE Johnny Hieber's activesync backup problems. I don't know what device you are using / protocol so this is likely to be irelavent.

The MIPS casio devices (E125/EM500) didn't backup across active sync if using USB unless there where OS patches applied, once applied it works, but very slowly :-(. One good thing about the Active Sync backups is that there is a free utility (STWviewer) to extract individually files, I've not had cause to try it yet and Sprite Backup may already offer this (I use the default one that is in the Casio ROM, it doesn't do compression but it works well for me).

Chris

Johnny Hieber

05-16-2002, 12:38 AM

You were correct in suspecting that my device is MIPS - a Casio E-125. I did apply one OS update, but ActiveSync backup still hangs sometimes. Since ActiveSync backup is so slow, it is hard to tell when it hangs. It is kind of like having a little pet turtle. It can be hard to tell if one is dead or just hibernating.

Sprite Backup is very fast and you can restore individual files.

I don't mean to sound like a commercial, but it is one of the best programs I have purchased. I no longer worry about a tragic crash, a lost or stolen PPC, -- or about ActiveSync giving me a nasty surprise. That is a form of freedom.

Johnny

sgdluu

05-16-2002, 04:36 AM

I did get tired of ActiveSuck and use my PPC for mostly reading avantgo news and storing contacts (as a backup). My cell phone can store multiple numbers and if I ever need an address, I can look it up via my WAP browser (Yahoo syncs with my desktop and is much more reliable than ActiveSuck). As well, my cell phone is always with me and has great battery life.

As for notes, I prefer paper as they are not meant for long term storage. My task I write on paper or leave myself a draft email. I don't listen to MP3, I don't play any games (well except solitaire), I don't use MS Reader (not the same as paperback).

The only thing useful was the fact my ipaq can show pictures and movies off my digital camera that supports CF cards (multimedia in your pocket). Battery life is still horrible.

It is truly an oversize palm. I would switch back but my company has supplied one for testing. After two years with this device and all the up and downs. I would settle for a cell phone that could use avantgo (an obviously a touch screen)

jwf

05-16-2002, 02:42 PM

So is going back to the Palm OS world a viable alternative? I have been a Pocket PC convertee for over two years, and find I do not use my Jornada for .mp3 listening any longer (bought an inexpensive, small player for that).

I've been thinking along the same lines recently. Even had a browse around to see what the options were for MP3 sleds for the Palm V. Every time I use the Palm V I sigh. It's just so quick and easy - for example, creating a new task, just start writing in the Tasks program. As simple as that. Moving to another day in DateBk3 to check appointments and tasks is sub-second. As it should be. This stuff isn't rocket science, PDAs have been doing it for years. I suspect we'll forget how simple and quick this stuff used to be when Microsoft finally dominates the PDA market, just like we forgot how quick things used to be in DOS and Win3.1 ;-)

I do tire of the never ending quest for a fast simple PIM on the Pocket PC. I'm constantly swearing at the 'hourglass' from AgendaFusion when I just want to create a simple ToDo!

I think I'd really miss the compatible file system and the large colour screen. Oh, and the scroll wheel on the Jornada. Perhaps I should just upgrade to a newer Jornada ... Ooops ...

Pony99CA

05-16-2002, 03:32 PM

I have always wanted a way to replace Outlook data on the PC from my Windows CE device, too. I had two PCs and wanted to use my Handheld PC (now my Pocket PC) as my authoratative device.

However, there's another thing I'd like to see in ActiveSync (or on the Pocket PC, perhaps). When you do a Backup, the Backup dialog says not to use your device while Backup is working. I've always wondered why they don't display a dialog on the device saying "Backup in progress. Device locked."

If locking the device up is too restrictive, at least a dialog that displays saying "Backup in progress, please don't use." This dialog could be cancelled if you really wanted.

Backup over USB (or especially serial) takes so long that I often forget that a Backup is in progress and use my device.

Steve

Steven Cedrone

05-16-2002, 06:05 PM

Backup over USB (or especially serial) takes so long that I often forget that a Backup is in progress and use my device.

I agree, I usually will connect with my Pretek LAN card to do an ActiveSync backup: I found that it takes minutes as opposed to an hour...

Steve

dma1965

05-16-2002, 06:43 PM

Jason Dunn

05-16-2002, 07:07 PM

The reason ActiveSync is so slow over USB is that it's not a true USB conduit - it's USB over a serial driver, so it's extremely speed hampered. Yet another thing that needs fixin'. :cry:

dma1965

05-16-2002, 07:19 PM

USB over serial ? WTF is that all about 8O ? Here we have a standard for communication that is firmly entrenched, and very mainstream, and the "premier" technology company can't even implement it properly ! Why the hell does'nt Microsoft try to hire some of the out of work Palm OS engineers to have a go with the ActiveStink code. Palm definitely got it right, or at least more right than Microsoft did. I think if you took features of both Hotsync and ActiveStink, you could have a killer conduit. :!:

Steven Cedrone

05-16-2002, 10:21 PM

it's USB over a serial driver

So this means that when I install my new USB 2.0 card, I won't see any noticable improvement on sync speed?

Why can't the price on the Ethernet sync cradle go down! I would pay quite a bit for the luxury of having one, but not $200.00+

Jason Dunn

05-16-2002, 10:27 PM

So this means that when I install my new USB 2.0 card, I won't see any noticable improvement on sync speed?

Nope. The current USB sync speed doesn't come close to filling the pipe anyway... :cry:

Pony99CA

05-17-2002, 10:20 PM

It seems totally odd, but I too have found that just about everything is faster over my 802.11 LAN that has to do with PC to Pocket PC communications. It just does not make sense that the speed of being wired right to the PC via USB is so slow compared to the distance to my access point, which is about 30 feet away, but it is much faster. I guess wireless technologies are further along than we sometimes give them credit for.

I tried to get my iPAQ 3870 to sync over my 802.11b connection, but couldn't do it. I tried using the WINS method listed at Club Pocket PC (http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/pocketpc/tips/activesyncnet.asp), but that didn't seem to work.

Does that method require actually running a server on your network? I tried using the IP address of the laptop I wanted to sync with as the WINS address, but that didn't work. I think I also tried my ISP's WINS IP address. I also tried using both an Internet and Work connection, but could never get the Work connection to, um, work, even for Web browsing.

Steve

Pony99CA

05-17-2002, 10:22 PM

it's USB over a serial driver

So this means that when I install my new USB 2.0 card, I won't see any noticable improvement on sync speed?

I hope Microsoft will support ActiveSync over FireWire some day, but I won't hold my breath....

Steve

jdhill

05-18-2002, 12:29 AM

I tried to get my iPAQ 3870 to sync over my 802.11b connection, but couldn't do it. I tried using the WINS method listed at Club Pocket PC (http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/pocketpc/tips/activesyncnet.asp), but that didn't seem to work.

Does that method require actually running a server on your network? I tried using the IP address of the laptop I wanted to sync with as the WINS address, but that didn't work. I think I also tried my ISP's WINS IP address. I also tried using both an Internet and Work connection, but could never get the Work connection to, um, work, even for Web browsing.

Steve
I have this set up and it is working fine for me. If you would like to post an e-mail address at which I can reach you I will try to assist you via e-mail in getting this to work.

Regards,
J. D. Hill

Dale Coffing

05-23-2002, 10:57 PM

Oh yeah, I just lost data again this week too getting ready for some demos at Pocket PC Summit next week. :(

But to be honest some of the problem is mine since I am syncing multiple Pocket PC with the same Outlook database which is a big no-no.

I do agree though that having more options for the sync would be nice when it sees existing data on the Pocket PC when having a new partnership.

Pony99CA

05-24-2002, 01:39 AM

Oh yeah, I just lost data again this week too getting ready for some demos at Pocket PC Summit next week. :(

But to be honest some of the problem is mine since I am syncing multiple Pocket PC with the same Outlook database which is a big no-no.

Since when is syncing multiple Pocket PCs with one Outlook database considered bad? ActiveSync allows it, so it should work. I kept my Sharp Mobilon and iPAQ 3650 synchronized with my Outlook database with no problems.

The only problem I've seen with ActiveSync having multiple partners is that it can only handle one connection at a time. I had my Mobilon connected with a serial cable and my iPAQ connected with a USB cable, but only the first one connected seemed to be synchronized.

Maybe that is "fixed" by allowing synchronization with a server, but I'm not running a server.

Steve

kahlil

12-17-2003, 05:49 PM

The first few days after getting my XDA II, I kept duplicating my contacts and calendar. Sometimes even quadrupell-ing them. Had to use scrubber to delete them. Weird.

PetiteFlower

12-17-2003, 07:20 PM

Funny this thread should come back now. I had a mysterious hard reset last night, had to restore my backup, and I got the dreaded prompt. I chose "Replace" and thought everything looked ok, contacts and calender were fine, just checked my documents and that was ok too, but when I went to check my favorites....they're all gone. Just gone! And I KNOW I have a "mobile favorites" folder on my PC. Grr how irritating!

phdarch

01-19-2004, 08:31 PM

Very interesting thread. This is my first post, and I found the forum by Googling for "activesync alternative" since I was so frustrated with it. I will say that the poster who noted that Hotsync also has its problems is right. Not nearly as many as Activesync, though.

Activesync just does mysterious things, like deleting 95% of my contacts, but not all, seemingly at random. I caught it quickly enough to be able to do a restore. This would argue against the "automatic backup" feature, because if you don't notice something is wrong after you sync, and then sync again, you'll lose everything on the auto-backup.

Also, I recently "upgraded" to 3.7.1 and no longer was able to browse folders on the PC. It connected just fine but the "Mobile Device" folder didn't show up any more. That took a while to figure out (because I didn't notice it right away and didn't suspect 3.7.1), and required uninstall and reinstall of 3.7, which resulted in reestablishing the partnership on both PCs, duplicates, reinstall of Avantgo, etc., etc.

The freeware Outlook duplicates remover noted in the previous post is extremely slow but it works perfectly. I know, because I've had to use it a number of times.

Finally, I'm curious about the slow backup times everyone is reporting. I have an Ipaq 1935 with about 40% of the 56MB in use and it takes about 4 minutes to do a full backup or restore. Maybe they upgraded the conduit?

I couldn't agree more: I do prefer the PPC over my old Visor, but Activestink sucks. Why doesn't Chapura get into this market?