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Jeff Kirvin
04-02-2002, 10:08 PM
<a href="http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/column020401.htm">http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/column020401.htm</a><br /><br />Tempted by visions of the forthcoming Sony Clié NR-70 and assertions that WordSmith really is better than Pocket Word, I tried to switch back to PalmOS for my "daily use" PDA. Here's why I ended up running back to the Pocket PC.

Chubbergott
04-02-2002, 10:17 PM
:wink: If it wasn't for the fact that ActiveSync is equally troublesome to most users, I'd think that the lack of success that you experienced was someone's deliberate aim.

Bad luck old chap.

RickP in AZ
04-02-2002, 11:48 PM
Of course Jeff, now you're going to get hammered again for being a "sell-out..."

My blood always boils when all the Palm-loyalists start denegrating you on the WOYP newsletter whenever you sing the praises of PPC. As a longtime lurker (in digest form) your insights with the Jornada 548 are what turned me towards the PPC platform for mobile writing in the first place. I quietly moaned when your first Jordie bit the dust forcing you back to the Handspring, but I was overjoyed when the 568 brought you back into the fold.

I have recently been forced back into using my old Palm IIIx while my iPAQ was away getting a RAM upgrade, screen clean, and touch screen replacement (from heavy transcriber.) I have been in agony trying to re-learn Graffiti, and trying to see that murky gray screen. HotSync *worked* but doesn't do anything smoothly like ActiveSync. I keep forgetting to hit the sync button, I forget appoinments as there is no handy Today screen. I will never go back... never, never, never...

Hopefully you can find a workable solution to your dilema of double pocket computers but I for one look forward to the day that I can remove Palm Desktop completely. (Unfortunately it seems that will not be soon as I prefer the Palm DOC format and the pDOCs plug in for MSWord needs to have HotSync, et. al. installed.)

Sorry to vent... I get my iPAQ back tomorrow and by then I'll have calmed down.

RickP in AZ

burmashave
04-03-2002, 12:05 AM
Of course Jeff, now you're going to get hammered again for being a "sell-out..."

My blood always boils when all the Palm-loyalists start denegrating you on the WOYP newsletter whenever you sing the praises of PPC.


I doubt that Chubbergot is a Palm Loyalist, and neither am I. What we find funny is the response to the many PPC users who are unhappy with the fact that PPC is riddled with issues that MS has neglected. PPC loyalists feel some sort of need to remind us that Palm devices have significant issues, as if we were unaware of that.

The Clio may well be a piece of junk. That claim makes my PPC neither more reliable nor usable than it actually is.

Jeff Kirvin
04-03-2002, 12:19 AM
I doubt that Chubbergot is a Palm Loyalist, and neither am I. What we find funny is the response to the many PPC users who are unhappy with the fact that PPC is riddled with issues that MS has neglected. PPC loyalists feel some sort of need to remind us that Palm devices have significant issues, as if we were unaware of that.

Oh, I'm well aware of the issues in the current and past versions of the Pocket PC. I'm well-versed in the limitations of Pocket Word, the brain-dead alarms and all the rest. What I found interesting (enough to write about, anyway) was that when I tried to switch back to a PalmOS device, there were even more headaches there.

Would things have been easier if I'd been using a device based on PalmOS 4.x, like the Palm m515 or even the as-yet-unavailable Clie NR-70V? Perhaps. Would I have been able to sync with Outlook more cleanly with Pocket Mirror or Desktop to Go than IntelliSync? Almost certainly. But the options I have on hand didn't measure up to what I get out of the box with my Pocket PC. You can qualify or spin that however you like, but it's a fact.

RickP in AZ
04-03-2002, 12:20 AM
I wasn't referring to Chubbergott's post but in general to slew of posts on Jeff's mailing list whenever he mentions the things he likes about PPCs over Palms. I agree that for many people ActiveSync can be quite a nightmare, as can HotSync. Fortunately my set up is purposely kept as simple as can be so I rarely have issues with ActiveSync and the only times I've had problems with HotSync were when I was playing with PocketMirror or doing something "tricky."

At my part time job I can sell *only* Palms and as difficult as it can be at times I try to keep my personal feelings out of my discussions with customers. It has been my experience that for about 90% of the general public the PalmOS is better. They aren't concerned with the antiquated structure if the sync software as long as it syncs their contacts, appointments, and maybe the occasional Word document. Most people who walk in and start asking the most basic questions are probably not going to evolve into PDA-freaks.

Each person's experience is different and I have been lucky with incredible stable connections on both mobile platforms, but like Jeff I find the "do nothing" nature of AS's "Constant Sync" setting a joy of laziness.

(And like Jeff I find the new clamshell style Clie to be quite enticing. If it were running PPC 2k2 on an Xscale processor, my keyboard would be shorting out form all of the drool.)

Respectfully,
RickP in AZ

Kilmerr
04-03-2002, 03:01 AM
What we find funny is the response to the many PPC users who are unhappy with the fact that PPC is riddled with issues that MS has neglected. PPC loyalists feel some sort of need to remind us that Palm devices have significant issues, as if we were unaware of that.

Hahaha, too true. The fact of something being false, doesn't automatically make its supposed opposite 'true'. Everything unto its own. Riddled is quite the correct term too. I am constantly amazed over all the hardware and software blowouts in 2002 and the sheer..."oh well, Palm is worse" attitude. Pretty soon one has to call a spade, a spade, sotospeak.

Been watching the posts of late and burmashave and Chubbergott are quite a breath of fresh air. Kudos. 8)

burmashave
04-03-2002, 05:03 AM
What I found interesting (enough to write about, anyway) was that when I tried to switch back to a PalmOS device, there were even more headaches there.


I concede your valid point, and for the moment I'll remain satisfied with the evil that I know. :wink:

Timothy Rapson
04-03-2002, 01:18 PM
Jeff is one of my heros. I have a PDA to do Word Processing and he appears to have the time (or make the time) to find out all the answers in this area.

I have been wondering about upgrading to a NR70V and how it might affect my syncing. Truth is I use the PIMs so little I might not miss syncing at all. I prefer to copy and past files so that I know which version of which file is where rather than the syncing software automatically replacing things. In fact, I don't have complete Outlook or Word so I really don't know what ActiveSync syncs to when it does it's thing. (Isn't that pathetic!) Yet, I have hundreds of word files and tons of info on my PDA.

I came to the IPaq from a Diamod Mako and still have the old PSION sharing stuff on my desktop. I wonder how I would install everything on a new PPC (mostly FITALLY and OliveTree Bible) if it had a different identifying name. I expect I would have to rename me old PPC as that is the way the lisencing works. My daughter would get the old Ipaq.

If I get a Sony, I can start fresh, but I have a cheap desktop that would likely not be happy with two devices on the weak USB ports. Though I would not longer need to sync my info with both PDAs as Jeff was trying, I wonder what problems could occur.


As usual Jeff is in the front of the questions regarding writing on our PDAs.

Thanks.

scottmag
04-03-2002, 06:50 PM
Oh, I'm well aware of the issues in the current and past versions of the Pocket PC. I'm well-versed in the limitations of Pocket Word, the brain-dead alarms and all the rest. What I found interesting (enough to write about, anyway) was that when I tried to switch back to a PalmOS device, there were even more headaches there.


Jeff, when I read your article I though your issues were Windows and installation based, not necessarily the fault of the PalmOS platform. Nonetheless, you did write about your "out of the box" experience so that's fine.

Palm's Hotsynch has certainly not been bullet-proof for me, but I have heard far more horror stories from Activesync users.

An important issue here is the type of user, if I may generalize for a minute. The PPC user is going to be more technical and more demanding of the product than the (typical) Palm user. Maybe that type of user has a more complex system and thus encounters more installation problems. Maybe he asks far more of the product and thus encounters more problems. It's just not as simple as advocates on both sides make it out to be. Maybe having used Activesync there was some evil code on your sabotaged the Palm.

Anyway I look forward to your future review of the new Clie. I am sure you can't resist.

Scott

Chubbergott
04-03-2002, 08:37 PM
Of course Jeff, now you're going to get hammered again for being a "sell-out..."

My blood always boils when all the Palm-loyalists start denegrating you on the WOYP newsletter whenever you sing the praises of PPC....

I don't see anybody who moves from Palm to PocketPC as selling out in any way. A person must use whatever is practically and economically the best solution to his/her problem.

What I think is poor is when someone's main issue is to have a go at another technology, particularly when they are a major contributor to a site. In fairness, the majority of this site's contributions from the 'managers' is pro-PocketPC - which is to be expected.

However, despite what has been said by the managers, too much is still contributed by them which is not so much Pro-PocketPC as much as it is Anti-Palm.

By all means, sing the praises of PPC, just don't dump on Palm users, particularly when the speck of dust that you're taking out of their eyes is pretty much a plank in yours.

Oh, and I'm not a Palm loyalist. Never owned a Palm and never known anybody who does own a Palm (if I do, they never admitted it :wink: ). I just can't help reacting when PPC users justify whatever they want to say by pointing to something they know nothing about in order to show that Palm devices are crap while anybody who suggests that a PPC could do with a little tweaking is a troll.

Jason Dunn
04-04-2002, 05:50 AM
I just can't help reacting when PPC users justify whatever they want to say by pointing to something they know nothing about in order to show that Palm devices are crap while anybody who suggests that a PPC could do with a little tweaking is a troll.


&lt;yawn>

And how is that relavent to this thread? :roll:

Chubbergott
04-04-2002, 05:32 PM
Dear Mr. Dunn (sir),

I saw a relevance to this thread in the direction of the conversation therein. I also noted the contrast in how some members of the leadership of this site take the stand that this site is about what they like about the PocketPC (still with me? You're doing well) while others.... don't.

You seem to take great joy in moving conversation over to the negative aspects of other technologies rather than the more positive aspects of the technology you prefer. As if that wasn't enough, once someone points this out, you start rolling your eyes, yawning, crying, name-calling and stamping your tootsies because they keep wanting an argument while you want everybody to agree that you are the embodiment of valid opinion.

Putting yourself on a pedestal as the fountain of all truth is not wise. If you discuss the positives of your technology, you may find that Palm users don't interfere (and some may even contribute). However, if you insist on negative analysis of something that you have claimed is not within the remit of your site, what kind of reaction are you expecting?

Do you expect everybody to reply to your posts with "Nice one! Palm are so crap aren't they? They should abandon PalmOS and pay Microsoft twice over for CE.NET" or, "Yes, I am completely satisfied with PocketWord and would gladly sell my daughter to keep it as it is"?

Are you so unprepared for someone to say "well, actually, I use a Palm and I quite like it" or "yes, I like my iPaq but I'd prefer it if it did this instead of that"?

I suggest you cannot handle people who disagree with you, based on your responses which range from "you bought it!" to "you're too stupid to understand" (yes, I've been hurt by some of the things you've called me as well).

It's not a personal attack when someone thinks you're wrong. No doubt, you'll think that this is a personal attack against you (and if you don't, you'll portray it as such). Heck, I'm sure you're a nice bloke, we both have the same Heavenly Father and mobile technology is not the world. I know I'm an argumentative sod and am far from perfect. So please, if you find anything I've said offensive, it's not intended as such and what I have said is nothing to do with anything outside the confines of this site's subject matter.

Now yawn to your heart's content, but don't roll your eyes so much. If the wind changes direction, you could stay like that!

Jason Dunn
04-04-2002, 05:54 PM
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Chubbergott, but be wary of the plank in your own eye - you've toned down somewhat lately, but when you started here you were far more self-righteous about the glorious coming of Symbian than anyone on this site is about Pocket PCs. I can remember you commenting on almost every single post with "Yeah, well, Symbian can do that better!! HAH!"

Your obsessiveness with "policing" the people who run this site is a little tiresome - you are not the "Content Police".

Chubbergott
04-04-2002, 06:41 PM
I can remember you commenting on almost every single post with "Yeah, well, Symbian can do that better!! HAH!"

:oops: I know... I noticed that as well. Sorry!
I would try and justify those posts by saying that they were direct responses to people slagging off Symbian devices and software - but your point remains valid


Thanks for sharing your thoughts Chubbergott, but be wary of the plank in your own eye


You clearly found my post too boring to read through to the end;

I know I'm an argumentative sod and am far from perfect.


Your obsessiveness with "policing" the people who run this site is a little tiresome - you are not the "Content Police".

It's not policing, only use of the freedom you have provided on this site to react to the stuff I read.