Animated Today 2002

[Jason Dunn]

<a href="http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=311&platformId=2&productType=2&catalog=0&amp;amp;sectionId=0&productId=28456">http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=311&platformId=2&productType=2&catalog=0&amp;amp;sectionId=0&productId=28456</a><br /><br />Animated Today 2002 is finally here! There's a <a href="http://www.pocketpcminds.com/reviews/animatedtoday_preview.php">review of the software</a> worth reading as well. Come and get it!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/flashtoday.gif" /><br /><br />"Animated Today 2002! Take your Pocket PC 2002 device to the next level with fully animated and dynamic Today screens. Animated Today 2002 (AT2002) is a revolutionary new application for the Pocket PC which transforms the Today screen into a gateway for rich, interactive applications and animations. These can take the form of standalone packages or internet enabled applications which can be fed realtime data (on Internet connected devices). AT2002 opens the door to thousands of rich media Macromedia Flash applications and allows developers unbridled creativity for Today skin design. Imagine running virtual pets, games, animated stock tickers and whole host of other great applications on the Today screen. Before you install any of the themes below you must first get Animated Today."<br /><br />You can <a href="http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=311&platformId=2&productType=2&catalog=0&amp;amp;sectionId=0&productId=28456">buy Animated Today</a> for $19.99 from Handango (affiliate link).

[dma1965]

No trial, No Sale ! ! ! :evil:

[Jason Dunn]

There's a "trial" of sorts here:

http://www.gigabytesol.com/at2002.htm#

But it's more like a walkthrough...

You can see examples here:
http://www.flashenabled.com/at/

Because it's Flash, what you're seeing in your web browser is pretty much what you'll be getting on your Pocket PC, so...

[entropy1980]

woo freaking hoo!!! Finally I have been waiting for this since it was announced too bad I have to wait a month or 2 till the Pocket Loox! comes out (sold my Ipaq 3835 to wait for 400 mhz goodness) oh well more time to anticipate i guess.

[Take1]

Very cool. Have to wait until a flash animation hits my fancy though. None of the ones at the site (except the lava lamp) suits my fancy. I simply don't have the time to develop my own (yet). Perhaps when WinCustomize starts hosting themes for this device I'll plunk down the $$ for this.

[disconnected]

Well, I bought the AT app and the boat and train packs from Handango.
The first problem I had is that there was some problem on the Handango site that prevented the boat pack from downloading, but the other pack and the main app downloaded and installed with no problems.

I think it looks pretty cool, but it slows down the active sync process, and I got error messages when I tried to install another app, and even when I tried to copy a file from desktop to iPAQ. When I disabled AT, I could then do the install and file copy....not very convenient.

[Boxster S]

Whoodeefrickendo!!!

Just something to eat away battery life on already power-strapped PocketPC's.

Is America really THAT bored that you must have swimming fishies and choo choo trains blasting along on your Today screen??? If I need to view flash (which is rarely), I use FlashBrowser.

[pt]

Whoodeefrickendo!!!

Just something to eat away battery life on already power-strapped PocketPC's.

Is America really THAT bored that you must have swimming fishies and choo choo trains blasting along on your Today screen??? If I need to view flash (which is rarely), I use FlashBrowser.


the world is pretty much that bored, hence the multi-BILLION dollar phone background and ringtone industry.

[Paragon]

Lets hope this is one of those things that start out "really bad" but get better. :roll:

Dave

[T-Will]

I think this program looks pretty cool, but I have the same problem as dma1965, no demo, no sale...I know the animations will look similar to the ones on the PC but I want to see how this affects performance and battery life before purchasing it. Plus I would like to see more theme packs that interest me.

[JMountford]

I posted a tread to this in the forum that was started a while ago. Maybe I am a desenter here but this whole thing galls me to no end. Phillip Torone is a talented guy in his own right and I am surew that the developer of the app did ok but the whole idea of charging for themes, even if they are Flash Themes, just ticks me off. The prices of pocket PC apps are getting rediculous. And when everything cost it gets to the point where the consumer just says screw it all.

I have been working on themes for a while now. I have been working on getting my website ready to go live. I put a lot of work and pride into my art and the site I am trying to make. What will I charge for the themes I made? NOTHING. I will ONLY charge for custom themes and even then it will be very, very cheap.

Flash Player for the PC is free. ANT software puts out a very nice app called Flash Assist. It is free. People make themes and all except for a few mercenary types are free.

Something has to give here.

There is not even a trial. I have to pretty much guess wether any animated theme I make will work, because I do not plan on buying this app for 20 dollars just so I can produce themes to distribute freely for people to enjoy.

Anyone else with me here?

PS no offence to Jason.

[Brad Adrian]

I have NOT done any kind of evaluation for an effect on battery life. However, I've been using these themes for about a week now and have not noticed any kind of effect on processing. Sure, it's eye candy, but I see this (for me) as yet one more way to demonstrate the true capabilities of the Pocket PC platform. I will not sit and gaze at my Today screen for hours because I've got this installed, but it sure will get the attention of my Palm-loving friends (yes, I have a couple of "non-converted" friends).

[Chairman Clench]

Considering the number of bugs and problems with PPCs, I will not purchase any software without a trial first. I don't care if the programmers time limit it or make it nagware, or whatever... but no trial, no money. I am not coughing up $20 for every piece of software and then having 1/2 of them not work correctly.

I don't have a problem paying $20-$30 for PPC software... but unless the programmers are going to give me a 7-day return policy, there is no purchase without a trial. That's why I always download trials for new desktop software or I purchase it from EB or Babbages where you can return it if it doesn't work.

Sorry guys, I don't care how "neat" it looks... put your money where your mouth is and make a trial.

[Boxster S]

Considering the number of bugs and problems with PPCs, I will not purchase any software without a trial first. I don't care if the programmers time limit it or make it nagware, or whatever... but no trial, no money. I am not coughing up $20 for every piece of software and then having 1/2 of them not work correctly.

I don't have a problem paying $20-$30 for PPC software... but unless the programmers are going to give me a 7-day return policy, there is no purchase without a trial. That's why I always download trials for new desktop software or I purchase it from EB or Babbages where you can return it if it doesn't work.

Sorry guys, I don't care how "neat" it looks... put your money where your mouth is and make a trial.

I don't mind paying $20 or $30 either if the software is worth it. But to me, $20 for a today screen eye candy is beyond belief.

1) We can download regular today themes (GREAT ONES) for free from PocketPCThemes.com.
2) Microsoft has a free utility that let's us create our own today themes for free
3) Macromedia releases Flash for PocketPC's for free
4) We have programs like FlashAssist and FlashBrowser for free that let us view Flash content (and they work great)
5) I can bring up webpages in Pocket Internet Explorer that have flash content thanks to Macromedia's generosity.

The thought of paying for a utility like this with no trial is also quite sketchy to me. And to have to PAY for themes??? WHATEVER!

[Jason Dunn]

but the whole idea of charging for themes, even if they are Flash Themes, just ticks me off


What ticks me off is that most people expect others to provide them with things for free. :lol: You're either a CONSUMER or a PRODUCER in the free market, and if you don't like what's being produced, don't consume. But to expect everything to be free forever is naive. The premise that everything on the Internet is free and should remain free is the biggest hurdle that many of us face - who wants to devote time to something, even if it is a labour of love, when everyone wants it for free and you've got nothing to pay your bills with? That's the situation I'm in right now, and let me tell you, it's not pretty. :cry:

[Boxster S]

but the whole idea of charging for themes, even if they are Flash Themes, just ticks me off


What ticks me off is that most people expect others to provide them with things for free. You're either a CONSUMER or a PRODUCER in the free market, and if you don't like what's being produced, don't consume. But to expect everything to be free forever is naive. The premise that everything on the Internet is free and should remain free is the biggest hurdle that many of us face - who wants to devote time to something, even if it is a labour of love, when everyone wants it for free and you've got nothing to pay your bills with? That's the situation I'm in right now, and let me tell you, it's not pretty. :cry:

Well, maybe PocketPCThemes should start charging for their themes as well? How does that sound??

Here's what I see happening. Lots of people will start making these "Flash" today themes for free and provide them to the public (as they do now with regular today themes). People create those themes to share with their fellow PocketPC'ers and don't expect ANYTHING in return. With the talent out there, they'll be even better Flash themes than the ones that you have to pay $4.99 a pop to download :twisted:

THAT is the PocketPC community at its best :lol:

And I'll say again, $20 without a demo = no sale.

[Mr. Anonymous]

Here's a simple solution (or at least the one I'm following): if you don't like the $20 price, don't buy it. If you think it's worth $20, then by all means purchase it.

Personally, it's not worth it for me, so I'm not planning on purchasing it. I can make my own today screen themes (or download themes others in the community have chosen to share at sites like Pocketpctheme.com), so paying for $20 to display flash animations on my today screen plus a flash theme. I wonder how well this well sell with non-animated today screens available as a free alternative. On the other hand, there are a lot of Flash fans out there (MX anyone?).

[Paragon]

Jason, I will agree with you that not everything needs to be supplied free. Although FAIRmarket value is another thing altogether. $20.00 for a utility like that I think is at the upper limit of what most people will pay. Add to that $5.00 for the "themes" is way over the limit. Most aren't even that good at this point. Now add to that, the fact there is no demo, and I think you are going to blow off a big chunck of your market.

Phillip Torone, has put a lot of effort into this project, and has pushed the envelope. If there is one thing most in the PPC community like to see is someone who can innovate and bring new and exiting things to market. Phillip has done that. I think in the coming months most of us are going to have animated today screens thanks to Phillips efforts.

IMHO I think he just made a couple of marketing mistakes that have upset a few, if corrected he will do well with his new product.


Geeez... it's easy to be a keyboard critic isn't it.

Dave

[Shaun Stuart]

Not a bad program but it does NOT work with dashboard - thats a real disapointment.

[JMountford]

Jason Dunn wrote:
JMountford wrote:
but the whole idea of charging for themes, even if they are Flash Themes, just ticks me off.
What ticks me off is that most people expect others to provide them with things for free. You're either a CONSUMER or a PRODUCER in the free market, and if you don't like what's being produced, don't consume. But to expect everything to be free forever is naive. The premise that everything on the Internet is free and should remain free is the biggest hurdle that many of us face - who wants to devote time to something, even if it is a labour of love, when everyone wants it for free and you've got nothing to pay your bills with? That's the situation I'm in right now, and let me tell you, it's not pretty.
What can I say Jason? I knew you would get bent. Sorry you did, bu I do not appologize for my sentiment. I do expect certain things to be free. I would say normally labors of love are in this category. You just don't charge somebody for something you love, (it somehow cheapins the thing). That's just my opinion. This all is neither here nor there however; because this is about charging for themes. It has become a standard that themes are free. Free to make, free to get, free to use. The Only person I have ever seen charge for themes is PT. I know you and he have this thing.. but that doesn't mean you that my opinion is any less valid. And I can see by the posts here that my opinion has been repeatedly validated. We accept as consumers that things cost money. But we also accept as a comunity a little support from our peers.

I will not even bring up who needs money and who doesn't. My beleifs are mine.

Mr. Anonymous Posted:
Here's a simple solution (or at least the one I'm following): if you don't like the $20 price, don't buy it. If you think it's worth $20, then by all means purchase it.
I would normally agree with you. The problem is that I want to provide animated themes to others for free. It is just something I like to do. It makes me happy to share my work with others. That is the difference between an artist and a businessman. I could develope themes using the information that the App developer provided, but unless I fork over them 20.00 dollars to buy the app I can not test anything I make.

BTW Jason some of us have been with out work for months now. We do not gripe or complain. We do not take our problems to others. WE cope. It is a part of the economy in the world right now. It is a part of the technology market. I am not happy with things but that just makes a good shiv like this even worse.

[Paragon]

JMountford

I'm sorry I must have missed a post somewhere. Who told you you had to pay for these themes? If you don't think it is right to charge for themes then don't buy them, but don't tell someone else that wants to pay for them that it's wrong.... It's wrong for you not them. We will all make our own choices. I don't think I need you to tell me what mine should be.

I am an artist and a businessman. I create things with my hands all day that is how I support my wife and 4 kids. I love my work, I'm proud of my work, and I sell my work!

Dave :) No flames intended, just an arguement.

[JMountford]

I think you misunderstood somethings that were said Paragon. I said that in order for me to make these themes and test them I DO HAVE TO BUY THE APP. I do not need to buy any themes as I can make my own once I have purchased the darn Application that runs them.

If any one has takin offemce to anything I said, then maybe re-read the things I said. EIther that or think about why it upset you. I am sorry if I did upset.

[Paragon]

Sorry, I guess I miss understood the difference between "forking over" and "buying". ... Perhaps Adobe will give you a free copy of Photoshop so you can do some free work for me. Again, what is wrong with fair market value.

Dave :)

[Boxster S]

Sorry, I guess I miss understood the difference between "forking over" and "buying". ... Perhaps Adobe will give you a free copy of Photoshop so you can do some free work for me. Again, what is wrong with fair market value.

Dave :)

$5 is too much for a couple of themes. Like I said, once people start making these Flash themes, they'll provide them from free and blow these $5 junkets out of the water.

You should NOT have to pay for Today themes. For the utility to make them, yes. But I still think that $20 is too much and that no demo = no go.

[Paragon]

Hey Boxter

I agree with you. If you read one of my earlier posts I said pretty much the same thing. I just don't think the guy should be expected to work for free. If the themes end up being for free which I imagine they will, so be it.

If he puts out a demo I will give it a go. If I like it and he drops the price a little I might even buy it, but I sure don't expect to get it for free.

I think I need a life. Here I am arguing about dumb little moving picture on a PPC!

Dave

[Jason Dunn]

With the talent out there, they'll be even better Flash themes than the ones that you have to pay $4.99 a pop to download


Yup, and that's the nice thing about the free market economy: you have a choice. I'd encourage people to create and release things for free if they can afford to do so. That means that the people who are charging for the themes have to really add value to the package to make it worth the money they're charging. You then end up with two types of themes: freebie themes that are likely quite simple, and more complex themes that you pay for.

I'll be honest, $4.99 for themes that don't really "do" anything isn't very appealing to me either. I'd pay $4.99 for a Flash application, but not really for a hopping car. Yet some will - and that's why the system "works". :-)

[Boxster S]

With the talent out there, they'll be even better Flash themes than the ones that you have to pay $4.99 a pop to download


Yup, and that's the nice thing about the free market economy: you have a choice. I'd encourage people to create and release things for free if they can afford to do so. That means that the people who are charging for the themes have to really add value to the package to make it worth the money they're charging. You then end up with two types of themes: freebie themes that are likely quite simple, and more complex themes that you pay for.

I'll be honest, $4.99 for themes that don't really "do" anything isn't very appealing to me either. I'd pay $4.99 for a Flash application, but not really for a hopping car. Yet some will - and that's why the system "works". :-)

I agree with you 100% :lol:

[Jason Dunn]

I would say normally labors of love are in this category. You just don't charge somebody for something you love, (it somehow cheapins the thing).


You were designing a Pocket PC, right? Did you give away your design for free? That's a labour of love, isn't it? It's easy to claim that the OTHER guy should give away things for free, but it's a little different when YOU'RE the one with the mortgage to pay. :-)

I truly long for a time where money doesn't exist and we can ALL create, learn, explore, invent, and push the boundaries of our existence without having to even think about money. But until that time happens, we all need to eat and provide for our families.


BTW Jason some of us have been with out work for months now. We do not gripe or complain. We do not take our problems to others. WE cope.

You're preaching the choir here - I lost my major Microsoft contract in late January and I've been hurting financially too. There's Pocket PC hardware that I'd like to buy but can't, but you won't see me asking why it's not free. :-) Do you really need animated today screens on your Pocket PC? No. It's a luxery, so let's not get carried away with this...

[Dave Conger]

I'll be honest, $4.99 for themes that don't really "do" anything isn't very appealing to me either. I'd pay $4.99 for a Flash application, but not really for a hopping car. Yet some will - and that's why the system "works". :-)


And the great thing is Flash can do so much more then just hopping cars. Just wait until we start seeing apps that try and pull information off the net...that will be some useful stuff.

[CoffeeKid]

Personally, I think the $20 is a bit out there for this app, but still acceptable (though the lack of a trial is disconcerting).

It's the $5 for a oversimplified flash movies that get my craw :) I mean, I can buy 'pro' level flash "clip art" from a variety of sources, stuff much more slick and thought out and actually "usable" for around that price, in bulk (ie, 30, 40 bought in a package).

One thing that would be useful to me with this thing is a flash movie of the map of Vancouver... which I imagine I could do myself if they haven't put in any restrictions on how to use PPC flash movies with this today plugin. Then again, since there's no trial, I don't know how to directly find that out :)

[[Cruzer]]

I truly long for a time where money doesn't exist and we can ALL create, learn, explore, invent, and push the boundaries of our existence without having to even think about money. But until that time happens, we all need to eat and provide for our families.



Yah, just like what Gene Roddenberry thought up as well when he created
"Star Trek". No money needed to grow your mind. But for now, I guess we will be "Ferangi's" :P

[Big Honkin' Deal]

who wants to devote time to something, even if it is a labour of love, when everyone wants it for free and you've got nothing to pay your bills with? That's the situation I'm in right now, and let me tell you, it's not pretty. :cry:


Nobody should feel obligated to work for free; Period. If You spent your time producing something then you are entitled to get compensated for it.....

Having said this I would question the pricing structure some of those developers come up with.

Ask yourselves.... How many copies can I sell for $20.- a piece and how many at $5.- or $2.-

Maybe there is more money to be made selling cheaper :roll:

And maybe not.....

[Chubbergott]

While sinking into the depths of my bath (hot tub) the other day, my thoughts rose above the bubbles and into the heights of the attic. The Blues came and I thought about why people would say "charging $20 should not happen" (or words to that effect).

The word 'NOT' is quite significant. As if some moral value has been disregarded and thrown out to flop away like a deflated dinghy. What's so objectionable that someone should 'NOT' charge $20 (+ $5 for themes)?How can this 'NOT' be enforced? Will he go to hell for charging so high a price.

Nobody is locked into his technology, he's not destroying any competition by what he is doing. He's not asking for $5 only to take $20 from your account. He's just offering something that a lot of people have wanted and figured "lovely, the market exists, I'll charge $20".

The bottom line is that anybody who produces something can put whatever cost they like on it. In fact, I find an unusual price a useful tool for me to ask;

a) How much do I want this?
b) How much do I need this?

It's up the the producer to decide how many units they want to sell and to price accordingly, but they can charge what they like and anybody who doesn't like it can quite simply do without.
There's a lot of things I'd like to buy...... but I just don't have the pennies!

[steddyman]

Animated Today 2002 is not a free application because it took long hours of work and expense to create. Both the application itself and the many plugins that come with it.

The main application comes with a range of applications (such as a calculator, zoomable map and games) along with many animations. All these had to be developed too and took long hours by Phillip Torrone in most cases. This is all included for your $20. Like Jason said, if this application and plugins is not worth $20 to you, then don't buy it, thats what a free market is all about.

There are no restrictions in what Flash content can be created inside At2002 (other than what the player can show). It is not crippled in any way and its entire purpose in life is to convince the thousands of Flash developers out there that the Pocket PC is a worthwhile platform to invest the time and effort in.

There is nothing to stop anybody writing AT2002 plugins without actually owning the product. The format of a scheme is documented at http://www.gigabytesol.com/at2002dev.htm and it requires a standard SWF file (small) a standard TSK file and a simple text config file you can easily work out.

As for charging for the plugins. Phillip provided all the ones that come with At2002 and you get included for free, and he provides a free bonus pack for you to download on his web site.

Some people do charge for themes (take a look at Handango, there are hundreds of them), but there is a world of difference between a Flash scheme and a standard Today theme. Flash is a programming and animation environment and those schemes can take days of work to create. Most Today skins are made by downloading a picture you like from the internet or your camera then rolling them into a TSK file. If you want these thousands of talented Flash developers to write stuff for the platform you love, then you've got to allow them to make a little back from it.

Many of the people buying AT2002 will be creating and releasing some free themes, Phillip has more free themes in the works, other site authors I know about are creating more themes and we will be sponsoring competitions to create them too (take a look at www.pocketthemes.com for details). But, for those people like Phillip that sweat blood to create themes, then he is correctly justified in charging for them. If you don't want to buy them, then thats upto you, but you will be missing out.

Steve

[steddyman]

Almost forgot... I have a version in development for Dashboard too.

[Tari Akpodiete]

well said, steddyman!

[Stone]

I have been using this new software now for about 2 weeks and think it's great! steddyman is absolutely correct that it is just the beginning of things to come!

Keep up the great work Phil and Steve! :lol:

[Mike Wagstaff]

If the app was free rather than the Flash animations, I suspect that this would become very popular - and more profitable for the author.

[kagayaki1]

I think pdadave is right on the money. If this Flash App thing really takes off, it is just a matter of time when the app should be able to pull info off the web and update the animation to reflect that. If you had a wireless card, think of the possibilities. Updating news headlines on a ticker, stock quotes, shopping options as you walk down the street, even a unique "GPS over the web in a Flash file" kind of thing. Ah, the possibilities are endless. It would take some testing, but the .swf should work with some server-side Generator stuff, middleware, etc. Very exciting!

[mhynek]

Phillip T., you're the man! I got ur back! If any a dees guys give you a prablem when ur in Chicago, you tell ME about it. Then you can "ferget about it". Ya got me?

Ok then, great job! Say hi to Beth for me and I wish you nutt'n but the best.

Your best Bud you never met,

Michael