Flash memory problems

[Jason Dunn]

One of the things I love about all the Pocket PC 2002 devices is that they all have a portion (usually eight megs or so) of Flash ROM. Data saved to the Flash ROM is permanent until deleted - your Pocket PC can lose all power and still maintain that data. Because my HP 565 has a meagre 32 megs of RAM, I try to install as many of my critical applications to the ROM as possible (<a href="http://www.developerone.com">CodeWallet Pro</a>, 802.11b drivers, etc.)<br /><br />A problem I've seen with my Jornada 565 is that some applications don't seem to "play nice" in Flash ROM. Sometimes I'll load an application from Flash ROM, only to have the device lock up with a never-ending hourglass (or whatever the Pocket PC equivalent is called - "Spinning Wheel of Perpetual Patience"?).<br /><br />Have you seen any odd behaviour from applications or data stored on the Flash ROM of your Pocket PC 2002? Answer the survey (and remember you don't need to be a registered user of this site to vote!)

[brianchris]

ABSOLUTELY!! I have had problems with some things loaded into the availible ROM area. Currently, I am STILL stuck on an issue with the new Targus Stowaway 2002 drivers. I decided to install the drivers in the file store of my Ipaq 3835....BAD MISTAKE. Ever since then, I have not been able to get the drivers working at all. I constantly get the error message "Language DLL's could not be found, please use proper instalation procedure" when I try and run the Stowaway app in Start > Programs.

I have uninstalled the drivers (from file store), soft reset, reinstalled to RAM, no luck.....same error message. Targus is stumped. So because of this problem, I can not use my $100 Stowaway Keyboard and $10 adapter :x

Maybe someone else has had the same problem and knows a way out of this conundrum? Regardless, take this post as a warning to all other Stowaway PPC 2002 device users: DO NOT INSTALL STOWAWAY 2002 DRIVERS TO ROM IF YOU EVER WISH TO USE YOUR STOWAWAY AGAIN!

-Brian

[Sparky]

How's about this for odd behaviour... HP Safe Store disappearing alltogether! Seems as though many HP owners, as well as owner of other devices have "lost" their Flash ROM. Pretty annoying to say the least, since it was a large selling point.

[Timothy Rapson]

I sure wish someone would solve this problem. When I do even a hard reset, all my contacts are back just as they should be. I wish everything were.

My last hard reset even left me unable to restore from flash card with Compaq utilities. I had to restore from desktop.

To be fair to the PPC, the crash that torqued my Ipaq was some kind of power surge, flutter on my desktop while I was connected. My desktop had problems like this all weekend.

Thankfully none of my other data on my flash card was missing or messed up. The hard reset probably did me some good, as I gained significant RAM. I must have had a couple of months worth of slag clogging up the running memory. Gone now.

BTW, I know you were talking about internal flash OS ROM and I am talking mostly about external flash storage card, but I wonder if the two could be related. Might there be a bug in the underlying OS work that affects both?

On a related topic, flash memory has gotten so cheap, I have been predicting that someone may ship a model with 128 meg or so already on the motherboard for music, file, video, and other storage use. They might save the space a slot takes up. Just wondering if anyone has heard any rumors about upcoming models from...say...Toshiba or Audiovox with such a feature?

[JJ]

ABSOLUTELY!! I have had problems with some things loaded into the availible ROM area. Currently, I am STILL stuck on an issue with the new Targus Stowaway 2002 drivers. I decided to install the drivers in the file store of my Ipaq 3835....BAD MISTAKE. Ever since then, I have not been able to get the drivers working at all. I constantly get the error message "Language DLL's could not be found, please use proper instalation procedure" when I try and run the Stowaway app in Start > Programs.

I have uninstalled the drivers (from file store), soft reset, reinstalled to RAM, no luck.....same error message. Targus is stumped. So because of this problem, I can not use my $100 Stowaway Keyboard and $10 adapter :x

Maybe someone else has had the same problem and knows a way out of this conundrum? Regardless, take this post as a warning to all other Stowaway PPC 2002 device users: DO NOT INSTALL STOWAWAY 2002 DRIVERS TO ROM IF YOU EVER WISH TO USE YOUR STOWAWAY AGAIN!

-Brian


Have you tried to go into the registry and delete all occurances of Stowaway or Targus? There could be something left over in the registry which does not allow you to do a clean installation anymore.

[brianchris]

ABSOLUTELY!! I have had problems with some things loaded into the availible ROM area. Currently, I am STILL stuck on an issue with the new Targus Stowaway 2002 drivers. I decided to install the drivers in the file store of my Ipaq 3835....BAD MISTAKE. Ever since then, I have not been able to get the drivers working at all. I constantly get the error message "Language DLL's could not be found, please use proper instalation procedure" when I try and run the Stowaway app in Start > Programs.

I have uninstalled the drivers (from file store), soft reset, reinstalled to RAM, no luck.....same error message. Targus is stumped. So because of this problem, I can not use my $100 Stowaway Keyboard and $10 adapter :x

Maybe someone else has had the same problem and knows a way out of this conundrum? Regardless, take this post as a warning to all other Stowaway PPC 2002 device users: DO NOT INSTALL STOWAWAY 2002 DRIVERS TO ROM IF YOU EVER WISH TO USE YOUR STOWAWAY AGAIN!

-Brian


Have you tried to go into the registry and delete all occurances of Stowaway or Targus? There could be something left over in the registry which does not allow you to do a clean installation anymore.


Actually, I've figured its *got* to be something like that. A) I don't have a reg editor installed (and would rather not have to install one, but might have to). B) I would hope Targus would realize this as well, and instruct me specifically which registry entries to hack. As you can tell from my unwilingness to even install a reg editor above, I'm not a registry editing pro, and would likely make the situation worse. :?

Thanks for your reply!!

-Brian

[Bob S]

I have had this problem on only a few applications, Most of the ones I installed worked fine. I chalked it up to The programmers putting some coded links in the program so that when it looks for something it does not look in the sfafe store location (putting the start shortcut in the programs list where the actual link is not allowed to point to the safe store).. I may be completely wrong, but thats my story and I'm sticking with it.

[Don Sorcinelli]

The only one time I've encountered this (so far) was with MS Reader 2.0. I could not get it to open ("spinning hourglass of despair"). Reader, BTW, was in RAM.

I had Audible content (including some large Audible books) on my CF card. When I removed the CF card, PRESTO - problem stopped. It seems Reader could open the Audible content (and tried to). This was not the case with the first version of Reader for PPC.

[JMountford]

OK maybe I am dence, but in truth I have never tried to put anything in to the ROM. How is this acomplished. Is that what file share is on my iPaq?

[brianchris]

OK maybe I am dence, but in truth I have never tried to put anything in to the ROM. How is this acomplished. Is that what file share is on my iPaq?


Yes, the "file store" on your ipaq is the ROM storage area. Data you put in there is flashed to your ROM, and is safe in the event of a Hard Reset or Power loss.

-Brian

[brianchris]

ABSOLUTELY!! I have had problems with some things loaded into the availible ROM area. Currently, I am STILL stuck on an issue with the new Targus Stowaway 2002 drivers. I decided to install the drivers in the file store of my Ipaq 3835....BAD MISTAKE. Ever since then, I have not been able to get the drivers working at all. I constantly get the error message "Language DLL's could not be found, please use proper instalation procedure" when I try and run the Stowaway app in Start > Programs.

I have uninstalled the drivers (from file store), soft reset, reinstalled to RAM, no luck.....same error message. Targus is stumped. So because of this problem, I can not use my $100 Stowaway Keyboard and $10 adapter :x

Maybe someone else has had the same problem and knows a way out of this conundrum? Regardless, take this post as a warning to all other Stowaway PPC 2002 device users: DO NOT INSTALL STOWAWAY 2002 DRIVERS TO ROM IF YOU EVER WISH TO USE YOUR STOWAWAY AGAIN!

-Brian


Oh, and I forgot to mention, the other application that does not seem to work in the ROM area for me is Macromedia Flash for PPC :( So, out of only three apps I choose to install in ROM when I got my new ipaq 3835, two don't function there, and one of those has kept it from working anywhere else, even after a reinstall. Wow, did I choose all the wrong apps to install to ROM or what?

-Brian

[JMountford]

Thanks for the information Chris. Good luck with your troubles. Hey did you create a My Documents folder in File Store?

[Paragon]

Yes I have had problems with HP Safe Store and have read many posts from other having problems also.

IF a file in Safe store becomes corrupt it can take out the whole safe store... the only fix is to send it in to HP for repair. It seems no one has had any luck flashing the complete ROM on their own. If you get safe store to close to full it can also disappear.

For me this is what I have found to work. As I said don't over fill it. Only install apps that you are confident in... NO betas. Don't download things like Avantgo or Mazingo that have a variable size to it either.

Dave

[Kaskade]

Every time I try to put anything in Filestore that is over 128 KB, it seems to bring ny 3630 to it's knees. And I can only get applications loaded once out of every ten times. Usually it locks up and I have to do a hard reset. Of course I am just lucky to have 200 loaded in my ROM at all and not have Reader, Media Player and the other programs taking up precious RAM. But it seems to me ROM is ROM and what ever software writes to the ROM is faulty.

[Jeff Kirvin]

Actually, I've figured its *got* to be something like that. A) I don't have a reg editor installed (and would rather not have to install one, but might have to). B) I would hope Targus would realize this as well, and instruct me specifically which registry entries to hack. As you can tell from my unwilingness to even install a reg editor above, I'm not a registry editing pro, and would likely make the situation worse. :?


I had the same problem with my Jornada. Here's the fix.

1. Don't install the 1.6 driver to flash. It just doesn't work.

2. To completely remove it so you can successfully reinstall it to RAM or install an older version to Flash, remove it via Remove Programs, reset, then delete any Targus or Stowaway .DAT files from \windows\appmgr on the Pocket PC. These files store the install path.

3. Reinstall the driver to the proper directory.

This worked like a champ on my Jornada, so good luck!

[brianchris]

Actually, I've figured its *got* to be something like that. A) I don't have a reg editor installed (and would rather not have to install one, but might have to). B) I would hope Targus would realize this as well, and instruct me specifically which registry entries to hack. As you can tell from my unwilingness to even install a reg editor above, I'm not a registry editing pro, and would likely make the situation worse. :?


I had the same problem with my Jornada. Here's the fix.

1. Don't install the 1.6 driver to flash. It just doesn't work.

2. To completely remove it so you can successfully reinstall it to RAM or install an older version to Flash, remove it via Remove Programs, reset, then delete any Targus or Stowaway .DAT files from \windows\appmgr on the Pocket PC. These files store the install path.

3. Reinstall the driver to the proper directory.

This worked like a champ on my Jornada, so good luck!


Allright....someone who can confirm there *is* a problem with Stowaway 1.6 drivers to ROM. AND, you provide a fix also?....its too good to be true!! Thank you so much for your reply. I'll attempt your instructions tonight. Thanks again!!!

Targus, if you're listening, get a notice up on the Stowaway 1.6 driver download page to *NOT* install those drivers to ROM. Or, even better, correct the drivers so that they may be used in ROM. IMHO, the Stowaway drivers are a perfect example of what should be able to be installed to ROM....hard reset you're device, and you're keyboard still works. But, jkirvin's right, installing Stowaway drivers 1.6 to ROm *just doesn't work right now.*

-Brian

[whoopus]

Every time I try to put anything in Filestore that is over 128 KB, it seems to bring ny 3630 to it's knees. And I can only get applications loaded once out of every ten times. Usually it locks up and I have to do a hard reset. Of course I am just lucky to have 200 loaded in my ROM at all and not have Reader, Media Player and the other programs taking up precious RAM. But it seems to me ROM is ROM and what ever software writes to the ROM is faulty.


I actually thought I had the same problem with my 3630 and ended up with a hard reset as well. I tried it again and this time patiently waited until the cursor started to respond. After 1 minute it would start back again. Now I know that whenever I copy a large file to file store, if it freezes up to simply wait a while. Eventually the copy process will finish and you can run the program from ROM as any other program.

Here are the applications that I am successfully running from ROM:
BizzDev NetUse
Canon Livescope
FTPView
Cubicle Chaos
Firedrill
PQView
JSOverclock
Microsoft Portrait
MiniStumbler
PHM System Tools (Device Management, Registry Editor, Task Manager, Database Manager)
Pocket Streets 2002
RealOne Player (Took some registry editing)
RegKing2002
Snoopsoft Dashboard (Took some registry editing)
SpeedClean
UdaEQ
WhereIsMyRam?
WinVNC
WIS Bar (The new, updated version)

Apps that I can't get to run from ROM:
PocketTV

I love the file store!

Mark 8)

[Jason Dunn]

Canon Livescope
SpeedClean


Hmm - what are these apps? Haven't heard of them before. :-)

[Paragon]

Better yet... how did he load File store on his 3630 :)

Dave

[whoopus]

Canon Livescope is a really cool webcam viewer and controller. Before I leave work, I can use it to watch the sunrise on the beach in Japan, and Pan/Zoom anyway I want while I have control of the webcam. This is really neat to wow friends over wireless. You can find the app here:
www.x-zone.canon.co.jp/WebView-E/ce/ce_top.htm
If anyone is interested, I have modified my config file for a few additional webcam sites other than the default ones that Canon includes.

SpeedClean is a neat app that simply cleans out Temporary internet files, Cookies, and the temp folder with one press of a button. It can be located here: www.adromsoft.fr.st

Thanks,
Mark

[Brad Adrian]

One other thing that can cause some confusion when trying to clean up Targus keyboard installation problems is the fact that uninstalling the drivers doesn't necessarily get rid of all the shortcuts. So, if you uninstall, then reinstall to internal memory, you may still see two shortcuts under the SETTINGS--BUTTONS listing.

So, after doing the uninstall, you may need to use File Explorer to delete the shortcut from the Windows\Start Menu\Programs folder

[crashdau]

Sorry if this question seems overly newbie-ish...but, where is this file store everyone is talking about? I've tried to view this on my desktop browser and the PocketExplorer on my IPAQ, but I don't see anything indicating File Store. I'd love to try and load some of my Today Plugins to the free memory of my ROM, but, I don't know how.

Can someone direct me (via a link or what have you) on how to go about loading something into ROM. Whenever I load a program to my IPAQ, the only choices I get are "Main Memory" or my "T2T Disk".

Thanks

[dma1965]

:evil:
Yes, I too have experienced this horror. When I first got my 3870, I filled the filestore with apps. All seemed to work well except Pocket TV, for a few soft resets (lets face it, soft resets are a fact of life). Then, all of a sudden, the spinning colorwheel of doom would happen, and it was hard reset time. I tried installing one app at a time, to see if it was a rogue app, but it still happened. So I then blamed the buggy 3870 and got a 3835 instead, same problem. So I blamed the entire 3800 series, and got a 3765, same problem. So I blamed all the new Compaqs, and got a Jornada 568, same problem. So I went back to the 3870, and did not install anything to the filestore, and, lo and behold, it has not happened since. I thought it was just my bad luck, and am glad to see it is a more universal issue. The only thing I use the filestore for now is to copy the My Documents folder to when I am on the road (which is a lot). Since I am a network administrator, I keep lots of documents with me, and this gives me peace of mind when traveling. I did however notice one thing. If you install an app to the filestore, or even a bunch of apps, and remove all shortcuts to it through the file explorer (i.e. in the Start Menu\Programs Folder) the spinning colorwheel of doom does not happen either. It seems to be linked to attempting to validate shortcuts at bootup.

[brianchris]

I had the same problem with my Jornada. Here's the fix.

1. Don't install the 1.6 driver to flash. It just doesn't work.

2. To completely remove it so you can successfully reinstall it to RAM or install an older version to Flash, remove it via Remove Programs, reset, then delete any Targus or Stowaway .DAT files from \windows\appmgr on the Pocket PC. These files store the install path.

3. Reinstall the driver to the proper directory.

This worked like a champ on my Jornada, so good luck!


I was *so* excitied regarding you solution to the Stowaway driver / ROM problem. But, alas, upon getting home and checking the \windows\appmgr folder (after an uninstall of the drivers and soft reset), there were *no* DAT files relating to targus or Stowaway what so ever :cry:

Any other idea I might try? Regardless, thanks for your initial reply.

-Brian

[dma1965]

I had a similar problem before. Try finding the .cab file for the driver. It is usually in the ActiveSync directory, but it can be anywhere (usually in the program files directory if not in the ActiveSync directory. Copy the .cab file to the temp folder in your pocket pc and tap on it there. The app should install then.

[Rob Alexander]

2. To completely remove it so you can successfully reinstall it to RAM or install an older version to Flash, remove it via Remove Programs, reset, then delete any Targus or Stowaway .DAT files from \windows\appmgr on the Pocket PC. These files store the install path.


This brings up a point that I've been wondering about. This installation clearly depends on information stored outside the file store. You're all talking about getting the programs to work there at all, but have any of you actually hard reset your PPCs and had the programs installed in the file store still work?

I wonder this because most programs add entries to the registry, .dll's to the Windows directory, etc. So if you hard reset your PPC, won't you just be left with some nonfunctional program parts in your file store with everything else missing? It would be like trying to move Office to a new computer by dragging over the Office folder from the old computer. Wouldn't work. (Of course there are some smaller apps that are completely self-contained and should work okay like this.)

What I use my file store for is to store away my most critical data and the .cab files with which I can reinstall my most important applications if the worst happens.

Am I just missing something, or is everyone else missing an important point? :wink:

[Jeff Kirvin]

I had a similar problem before. Try finding the .cab file for the driver. It is usually in the ActiveSync directory, but it can be anywhere (usually in the program files directory if not in the ActiveSync directory. Copy the .cab file to the temp folder in your pocket pc and tap on it there. The app should install then.


This should work, as it tends to ignore whatever would normally try to install it back to Flash. Once you've installed it to RAM, you can safely delete any files left behind in Flash.

[Paragon]

Rob Alexander

No you have not missed anything at all. You are right anything in Safe/File store will not likely work after a hard reset because as you say it wipes out the registry ext. Some programs will work if you use file explorer and go right to the source to open an app.

I think for many it is just memory saving feature. Myself I think it is much easier and quicker to just do a backup to a CF card. I never saw the use of keeping .cab files in safe store and having to go thru all the hastle of reinstalling everything when I could just do a one time operation of restoring.

A few weeks ago will out of town I had to do a hard rest having a full backup on CF saved me a lot of hastle. Within minutes I was back to normal... e-mail, internet and any other settings as well. No mess no fuss.

Dave

[Jason Dunn]

So if you hard reset your PPC, won't you just be left with some nonfunctional program parts in your file store with everything else missing?


Yes, that's exactly what happens. The SafeStore is more like a place to put apps to conserve your system RAM, and also for critical data files. But it's not a magical zone that does what you'd hope... :-)

[Rob Alexander]

Thanks Paragon and Jason, for the replies. I wasn't thinking about that aspect of it at all. What I'm most worried about is the security of my data when I head off around the world for 30+ days with nothing but my iPaq. I would be so totally screwed if I lost my data that I do both what Paragon suggests and what I said above. Just before I leave, I create a backup to CF and carry that separately from the iPaq. Every so often on the way, I create another one. But because I'm paranoid that the backup might not work properly, I store away all of my most important data (contacts, trip details, my itinerary, etc) into the file store along with the .cab's for my most important apps. I agree with Paragon... if I have to hard reset, I'll go to my CF backup first. But I really want that second layer of protection as well. Anyway, I've been so focused on that stuff that I completely missed the obvious motivation of saving space. :wink:

[iPaqDude]

Couple of people have asked what this is - I have found reference to in the advertisement from Compaq about the newset iPaqs. I have a 3630 - one of those with the 32 MB of ROM - and have upgraded to 2002. Is this a feature that can be enabled on my iPaq?

Thanks.

[Paragon]

Couple of people have asked what this is - I have found reference to in the advertisement from Compaq about the newset iPaqs. I have a 3630 - one of those with the 32 MB of ROM - and have upgraded to 2002. Is this a feature that can be enabled on my iPaq?

Thanks.


No, well sorta maybe. As your device sits now no you can't use Safe Store. Although there have been a few people who had one of the 32mb ROMs that have flashed their ROM with one from a newer Ipaq with the File Store. It is not an autherized operation but it can be done with the proper tools and knowledge.

Dave

[Kaskade]

I too have the 3630 with 32 MB ROM, and you can upgrade it to the same specifications as the 3700 series as it has the same amount of ROM> That means you don't wate precious RAM, and you take advantage of something that your Ipaq has already. It is unsupported by Compaw, but works quite well with the exception of the filestore hanging when you put anything but the tiniest of files in it.