Jornada 928 Photos

[Jason Dunn]

<a href="http://www.jennybeauty.it/home/news.asp?displaynews=yes&del=no&id=285">http://www.jennybeauty.it/home/news.asp?displaynews=yes&del=no&id=285</a><br /><br />Vincenzo sent me a link to an Itallian site with photos of the HP Jornada 928. It almost looks like they were taken with the HP Pocket Camera off another Jornada...<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/jornada928.jpg" /><br /><br />I'm really looking forward to this device if they make a CDMA version...and give it 64 megs of RAM. The baseline "Pocket PC Phone" units will have 32 megs of RAM according to a news article I read, so hopefully HP and Toshiba will release multiple units with different specs.<br /><br />I'm curious to know how many of you would leave your cell phones behind if you had a Pocket PC Phone...time to vote! (remember that you don't have to be registered to vote)

[Dave Conger]

Vincenzo sent me a link to an Itallian site with photos of the HP Jornada 928. It almost looks like they were taken with the HP Pocket Camera off another Jornada...


Slightly off topic for a second...what better way is there to take pictures of a new Jornada then with the HP Jornada Pocket Camera?!?!

...oh, I see your point, a 3.3 megapixel camera probably would take a better picture :wink:

[JonnoB]

Looks like the link is dead...

Problems with the javascript linking to the asp page. Best to link to the site: http://www.jennybeauty.it/home/news.asp
and then click on the news story.

You can see the reflection in one of the screens of the 928 and for sure, it was taken with the HP Pocket Camera. This camera does a decent job outdoors, but indoors - terrible.

[Jason Dunn]

Looks like the link is dead...


Link was fixed 60 seconds after I posted it - you guys come here too much. ;-)

[spg]

Uggh, terrible pictures, but cool device! I would leave my cell phone behind for a Pocket PC phone... If I had a cell phone :wink:.
And I agree with you Jason, they NEED to make a Pocket PC Phone with 64MB of ram. I can barely get by on that much now days. Hopefully they will get the idea! 8)

[innersky]

I don't like the idea that my Pocket Pc serves as a phone also. I'd much more prefer the GSM/bluetooth/Pocket PC scenario.

I don't always carry my Pocket PC, because it's too big.

I think Smartphone 2002 will do the trick for me... I don't use Pocket Excel/Word anyway.

[JohnnyFlash]

I'm curious to know how many of you would leave your cell phones behind if you had a Pocket PC Phone...time to vote! (remember that you don't have to be registered to vote)


oh boy, unfortunately Italian is one of 5 languages I know.
he is writing there that this phone has such features like:

- active cover (I love active covers, I used it in motorola Accompli;
after you open it the display goes ON and you can then take incoming call automatically)

- two processors (??? one for phone and one for PDA???)

and also: DUAL DISPLAY, one small LCD display too!!!

I just wonder WHAT EXACTLY this second display is displaying????
Is it name and number of person who is calling???

Oh boy, the question is only one for me: I take it if it has possibility to PAUSE MP3 PLAYBACK for taking phone call and come back to mp3 after call finished!!!!???

and 32 MB ram is too little of course...

[pre]

I would very much like to have a PDA with cell phone capabilities built in. Mostly for data reasons, but also for the occational call. Utimately I think a Pocket PC with Blue Tooth and an a matching Blue Tooth phone is a better combination. Then you're not locked into a specific manufacturer's phone or digital technology. Two separeate device optimized for two separate tasks with an ability to work together is a better solution than combining and comprimizing both. Just think of the difference in battery requirements for each device. What do you sacrifice? The ability to make a call or use of your PDA.

A quote from long ago...

"What do you get when you combine a PDA and a cell phone? A Brick!"

[Dave Conger]

Oh boy, the question is only one for me: I take it if it has possibility to PAUSE MP3 PLAYBACK for taking phone call and come back to mp3 after call finished!!!!???


ooooo, phatty (excuse my slang) question. That is really an interesting thing to think about. What does happen when you have something playing on the speaker and get a call. Also, I wonder what would happen through the headphone when you get a call?

[nz0eBoy]

I don't like the idea that my Pocket Pc serves as a phone also. I'd much more prefer the GSM/bluetooth/Pocket PC scenario.

I don't always carry my Pocket PC, because it's too big.


I also do not need my PPC all the time, but I can't be without my phone often. If they could make a PPC as small as a phone then great, but it would get a little hard to write on the screen, etc.

For me a bt phone (cdma 2000), bt enabaled PPC and a NEXTLINK.TO bt earpiece would be heaven.

[JonnoB]

Link was fixed 60 seconds after I posted it - you guys come here too much. ;-)


Have you been talking to my wife? She thinks my PocketPC has become an obsession.

[mememe]

This thing is HUGE, surely not a TREO killer!

Jaylo? Why CDMA? GSM is used in Canada (now by two carriers, Microcell & Rogers), both who are operating GPRS overlays.

[kagayaki1]

The reason I would probably never use this Jornada as a cell phone:

1) Too big. We've become accustomed to the small size of cell phones. Even the Nokia 5100s have less overall space than a current PPC.

2) Awkward. Often I use my pda in conjunction with a conversation to access calender stuff, etc. Kind of hard to do when it's on your face.


Not to say the idea isn't good, though. I think a good compromise would be the BT Headset/BT PPC solution. The headset would be small enough to consider replacing a cell phone. The problem is, as someone previously posted, that some carry their PPC all the time, while some don't. For those who work out of a bag or briefcase, the BT option would work well, but otherwise, you're still carrying two devices, and they would take up more room than just a single unit option.

But, then again, the 3870 I own doesn't have BT Headset profile, now does it? Nor a CF slot built in for a Socket option. So, for me, it's a moot point. &lt;shrug> Hopefully, someone will figure it out.

[JohnnyFlash]

ooooo, phatty (excuse my slang) question. That is really an interesting thing to think about. What does happen when you have something playing on the speaker and get a call. Also, I wonder what would happen through the headphone when you get a call?


In reality I have MP3 equipped phone already now: Siemens SL45i and it has Java, professional dictaphone (I can record several hours of talk), memory card, etc. and also MP3 player. When I listen to MP3 and call is coming then music is paused. It is nothing special, it works PERFECTLY. But still I have separate PDA (iPAQ) because I am afraid that with GSM/GPRS expansion pack I could miss calls and phone with expansion packs would be anyway TOO BIG. This jorna is not too big!

In order for me to give up cell phone and to take smart phone instead (like this Jornada) I need 1 basic condition to be fullfilled: to have possibility to listen to MP3 without worrying that I would miss any call. This is essential. I am just afraid that when the cover of this Jornada is closed one CANNOT play MP3... in this case: bye bye , minimum functionality not fullfilled.

It is not phatty. For me it is just basic... very basic functionality I expect.

[JohnnyFlash]

2) Awkward. Often I use my pda in conjunction with a conversation to access calender stuff, etc. Kind of hard to do when it's on your face.


:idea: there is simple solution to your problem: such PDA/phone needs to have handsfree feature. Example: Nokia communicator 9290/9210... have such feature: you can open the PDA part of this phone and then look in your calendar, excel sheet, etc. and at the same time speak by phone!!! Alternatively standard headset with microphone (like I use to listen to MP3) would do the trick.

I defintely think that there is no need to play around with bluetooth to achieve this. bluetooth is not a mature technology...

[James]

There are times when I wouldn't mind having a phone built right in to my PDA, but most of the time, I want my cellphone to be the tiny device it is (Nokia 8260). This 928 looks HUGE compared to my iPaq. the bottom picture says it all. I can fit my iPaq entirely in my palm, thumb resting on the record button. From the bottom picture I see another two inches above the thumb...and I want internal antennas.

[RussHart]

One thing I think I wouldn't like about a combined phone is that if it doesn't have buttons that stick out, as you often need to type SMSs etc without looking at the phone, so probably would be a no-no for me.

[kagayaki1]

jpzr' s comment about an external speaker kind of feature, similar to that of the 9290/9210 Nokia phones is a good example of something that would work. "Speaker phone" options have come a long way - I was recently very impressed with a Sanyo's external speaker and how clear it was.

However, I tend to think the line of thinking that overlooks Bluetooth is very short sighted. I continue to be amazed how everyone complains about the lack of BT distribution and technology maturity. True, BT is young, and after years of promises, we still have very limited options. But, isn't this current problem a self-fulfilling topic?

We continue to complain, but do nothing about it. Firms are easy to overlook BT due to its lack of development. But few are stepping up and saying "yes, we will be the ones to innovate and perfect the technology, and take it to the consumers in an easy to use, reliable, and affordable package that truly works."

Bravo to the OEMs that take a stance and say "no more." Compaq put their bet on the future by including BT in the 3870 and an expansion sleve. In an unprecedented move, they put a product out there that other companies can begin to develop products for.

True, the 3870 probably has slow sales now. But what if HP did the same thing? Wouldn't every OEM then take a look at joining the BT bandwagon?

To those that say, "but, BT 2.0 is just around the corner," you're probably the ones with PII350s as your main computer, because you just couldn't find a good time to upgrade and you were always waiting for the next thing. Take a stand and say, "this is what we believe in." The technology is available, so why don't we use it? Sure, it may be pricey now, but wasn't computer memory just a few years ago? Increase demand, supply will follow, and price will fall. Distribution will go up, and, maybe, just maybe, a small company we never heard of will take the world by storm my "maturing" this young technology.

This is why I disagree with using a standard headset. We have the technology to eliminate the need for some cables (except power and high speed, perhaps). Wouldn't everyone like to talk on their cell phone headset without that stupid cable dangling on their body?

&lt;sigh> Just some thoughts. Sorry for the rant.

[Dave Conger]

I would much rather have a separate cell phone then one built into my PDA. Though I take my PDA almost everywhere, there are some places I don't feel like I always need to take it to. I would rather have a bluetooth phone that I could connect to my PDA while it is in my pocket then a bigger "brick" that i have to try and hold up to my face.

[JohnnyFlash]

This is why I disagree with using a standard headset. We have the technology to eliminate the need for some cables (except power and high speed, perhaps). Wouldn't everyone like to talk on their cell phone headset without that stupid cable dangling on their body?


ok, ok, I know that Bluetooth headsets works great with bluetooth phones like Nokia 6310. I agree, it would be good idea that PocketPC with built-in cell phone capibility, like this Jornada, SHOULD HAVE bluetooth with headset profile. without this headset profile having bluetooth inside of such device is pointless.

also compaq forgot to put headset profile into iPAQ 3870 so that with expansion pack could be used as a cell phone through Bluetooth headset.................................................

one thing I have in bluetooth adapters/cards for desktop/notebook PCs (not PDA) is that they don't have LAN-server profile!!! just LAN-client!!! so suckers with bluetooth inside of PDA need to bay Bluetooth-LAN access point - what idiocy! This problem is nonexistent in WLAN...


jpzr from http://WirelessSoftware.info

[spg]

I would much rather have a separate cell phone then one built into my PDA. Though I take my PDA almost everywhere, there are some places I don't feel like I always need to take it to. I would rather have a bluetooth phone that I could connect to my PDA while it is in my pocket then a bigger "brick" that i have to try and hold up to my face.


What about if they could eventully get the form factor down to the same size as the Treo? It isn't that much bigger then a regular cell phone.

[Dave Conger]

What about if they could eventully get the form factor down to the same size as the Treo? It isn't that much bigger then a regular cell phone.


But then I would be buying a cell phone with an organizer on it....why would I want that? Eventually they might get it to be that size, but it would looks a lot of PDA functionality. I don't want a smaller screen size on my PDA...which is what a product that is Treo sized would have.

[spg]

But then I would be buying a cell phone with an organizer on it....why would I want that? Eventually they might get it to be that size, but it would looks a lot of PDA functionality. I don't want a smaller screen size on my PDA...which is what a product that is Treo sized would have.


Still, I like the idea of only having one device to carry around. I think PDA-Phones are a big step in that direction.

[JohnnyFlash]

Still, I like the idea of only having one device to carry around. I think PDA-Phones are a big step in that direction.


hey, buy yourself Nokia 9290: PDA and phone in one. I know people who would never ever part with it despite its "brick-like" size... the only disadvantage - it is not good for MP3; but ok for watching movies...

and treo is not a competition: Palm OS 4 sucks! and it has no colors...


jpzr from http://WirelessSoftware.info

[Dave Conger]

hey, buy yourself Nokia 9290: PDA and phone in one. I know people who would never ever part with it despite its "brick-like" size... the only disadvantage - it is not good for MP3; but ok for watching movies...

and treo is not a competition: Palm OS 4 sucks! and it has no colors...


Yeah, I would be tempted to get a Nokia 9000 series device, but the OS running on it doesn't make me to excited. MP3 support would be something I would really want to see. It is cool for an organizer style device though, in some ways better then the Treo. I also love how then open up to have a little keyboard and screen. It is like spy gadget.

[JohnnyFlash]

Yeah, I would be tempted to get a Nokia 9000 series device, but the OS running on it doesn't make me to excited.

Yes, I know, but don't look at it this way. Look at it this way: does it have applications that I desire? Go to website of my friend at http://my-communicator.com and see for yourself - how many applications are there!

And games running on this phone/pda are something fanstastic, just imagine color display in resolution 640x200 !!!! and typing is very easy (so called "thumb technique") and fast!

it also runs Java: personal java and midlets (small java)...

yes, the only drawback: MP3 is not working good on it, not because there are no MP3 players for it, but because quality of sound is not as good - it is intended for speach so high tones are not coming out so good...

but we agree on one thing: that smartphone should have 100% excellent MP3 player capibility or otherwise we say "thank you, amigo, not interested"...

[Daniel]

Too big in my opinion.

I wouldn't carry a PPC around as a phone until it was at least as small as an iPAQ. I would also want tri-band. So, I would still carry my phone, but I wouldn't buy this at all.

The advantages are there though, I'd love to have the ability to have intergrated wireless! At the moment, Bluetooth communications is still a little to flakey. I have a H3660/BT+CFII Expansion/T39 combination, it works to dial up to the net, but apparently you can't do bi-directional commuication between the phone and the iPAQ (or so Pocket Presence says), it's supposedly a hardware issue. Anyway, If you can't use the iPAQ with BT to make & recieve phone calls then built in wireless is the only option.

Oh, yeah, I would get something like the Pocket LOOX and use it as a phone because it seems about the same size as the iPAQ.

daniel

[Venturello]

I'm curious to know how many of you would leave your cell phones behind if you had a Pocket PC Phone...time to vote! (remember that you don't have to be registered to vote)


and also: DUAL DISPLAY, one small LCD display too!!!

I just wonder WHAT EXACTLY this second display is displaying????
Is it name and number of person who is calling???

and 32 MB ram is too little of course...


Oh yes 32Mb is too little... more so with the prices of ram now, OEM's should begin to throw out 128Mb devices to FURTHER humilliate palm.

I see obvious reasons for the second display. By the clue of the two cpu's, this pocket pc is actually a pocketpc and a phone, independent, in the same case, with some communications between them. With the second screen, you can see when you get a call who's calling, without lifting the cover off, etc.

Seen how good digi cams have an large display, in color and with backlight, and a smaller lcd, limited (no backlight, no pixels) so that they can convery limited information, but enought to use the device without the battery draining large LCD? And in this case, without lifting the cover.

I =DO= see this as a big advantage.

If a 64Mb model is coming out and the size is not ridiculous (havent been able to see other picture) I am buying this thing.

[JMountford]

I would like to have a PPC with Bluetooth and WiFi built in but I would never leave my Cell behind. Number one I love the size of my iPaq even with the sleave, but I like it for a PDA not a cell phone. Cell Phones should be small enough to get lost in a sneeze. I have a Sanyo 6000 I was one of the very first people to get one and I love it. I agree with a BT Phone BT PDA combo. I know Belkin has a BT Headset coming out mid year that can hook to almost any phone. I would like to see a BT adapter that will allow any phone to BT Link to any BT Enabled PDA. I would especially hesitate to leave my Cell behind as almost everysingle one of these cell/PDA combos are GSM/GPRS and I am On Sprint PCSs CDMA waiting for CDMA 2000.

[HR]

Yeah, I would be tempted to get a Nokia 9000 series device, but the OS running on it doesn't make me to excited.

Yes, I know, but don't look at it this way. Look at it this way: does it have applications that I desire? Go to website of my friend at http://my-communicator.com and see for yourself - how many applications are there!

And games running on this phone/pda are something fanstastic, just imagine color display in resolution 640x200 !!!! and typing is very easy (so called "thumb technique") and fast!

it also runs Java: personal java and midlets (small java)...

yes, the only drawback: MP3 is not working good on it, not because there are no MP3 players for it, but because quality of sound is not as good - it is intended for speach so high tones are not coming out so good...

but we agree on one thing: that smartphone should have 100% excellent MP3 player capibility or otherwise we say "thank you, amigo, not interested"...

Yes, but the communicator has low power processor and too simple OS to be a real powerful PDA. I would like to carry around 64M+ memory and run complex apps.

[Jason Dunn]

...two processors (??? one for phone and one for PDA???)
...I just wonder WHAT EXACTLY this second display is displaying????
...I take it if it has possibility to PAUSE MP3 PLAYBACK for taking phone call and come back to mp3 after call finished!!!!???


Yes, dual processors. One StrongARM, one TI DSP (digital signal processor) that offloads all the phone data.

The 2nd display is for call display, signal strength, etc. - I think. :-)

And yes, if you get an incoming call, it actually fades the MP3 music volume down to nothing, pauses it, and when the call is over, it brings the volume back up to what it was before the call came in.

This device represents a fulfillment of what the Merlin-class (2002) devices were really meant to be.

[Jason Dunn]

This thing is HUGE, surely not a TREO killer!


It's the same thickness (I believe) and only slightly taller than my Jornada 565, so I'd have no problem with the size. The Treo has a SMALL screen, which is a trade-off you make.


Jaylo?


8O


Why CDMA? GSM is used in Canada (now by two carriers, Microcell & Rogers), both who are operating GPRS overlays.


Because I'm with Telus. I was really tempted to switch to Fido and their GPRS, but the pricing was too high. I'm hoping CDMA2000 will have better pricing. Yeah, I know, pipe dreams... :lol:

[Jason Dunn]

1) Too big. We've become accustomed to the small size of cell phones. Even the Nokia 5100s have less overall space than a current PPC.
2) Awkward. Often I use my pda in conjunction with a conversation to access calender stuff, etc. Kind of hard to do when it's on your face.


Personally, I'd enjoy not having to take my cell phone with me, and since I carry my Jornada with me ALL the time, this would be a dream for me. :-)

Regarding your second point, all Pocket PC Phone Edition devices will have hands free functions. Remember that they have speakers and microphones right? Also, there are headsets, etc...

[usbnuts]

Jason,

What do we use in Canada? GSM/CDMA?

I live in Vancouver, BC.

[Daniel]

Personally, I'd enjoy not having to take my cell phone with me, and since I carry my Jornada with me ALL the time, this would be a dream for me. :-)

It would be great if it were small enough!

Regarding your second point, all Pocket PC Phone Edition devices will have hands free functions. Remember that they have speakers and microphones right? Also, there are headsets, etc...


Maybe a Bluetooth headset as well? That would be nice. :)

daniel

[JonnoB]

I can envision a unified PDA/Phone where I can use the speach recognition capabilities to tell my PDA who to call.... and use the PDA memo record function to record a part of my voice conversation... yeah, I would use a PDA/Phone combo. We are just starting to imagine the combined possibilities. The Treo and other Palm like devices will fail when people recognize the combined power of a phone+PocketPC.

[Jason Dunn]

What do we use in Canada? GSM/CDMA?
I live in Vancouver, BC.


Both - Telus uses CDMA, Fido & Rogers/AT&T use GPRS.

[JonnoB]

I enjoy using the Direct Connect features of the Motorola iDen phones. I doubt we will see one of those in a PocketPC.... :(

[mememe]

Jason,

What do we use in Canada? GSM/CDMA?

I live in Vancouver, BC.


Not Jason, but I can answer your question.

Microcell/FIDO (full GPRS rolled out w/ N.A. roaming (ala Voicestream)) uses GSM, RogersAT&TT (GPRS, but not access points for GPRS users) uses GSM, Bell (only in t.o.) offering 1xrtt (next step for CDMA), and Telus (just testing) 1xrtt w/ a stated mid-year launch.

Personally, I use GSM/GPRS, alternating betweem PalmOS device (eg. Treo) and PocketPC devices (bluetooth ipaq w/ bluetooth handsets).

Preferred device currently is the TREO, but miss colour.

Who has the best right now? Microcell/FIDO, but this is a momentary blip in the long run, as other carriers will be up to speed by midyear.

[Tycho Morgan]

I'm firmly in the "separate devices" camp. I think there are times when I wouldn't want to have my Pocket PC with mw, and there are times that I don't want to be connected, or don't want to be able to connect (when I'm trying to work I don't really want to be distracted.)

Also the integrated address book doesn't really appeal to me because I have a great memory and not that many people who I have to call very often. Personally I think having a Bluetooth phone and a Bluetoothed PPC would give me all the integration I could ever want (and more!)

Cheers,
Sam

[Daniel]

...Personally I think having a Bluetooth phone and a Bluetoothed PPC would give me all the integration I could ever want (and more!)...

The software has a fair way to come before PDA + BT Phone is a viable option. You can't make calls through the phone.

If that's not what you're after then you should go buy yourself a T39 or T68 now if you haven't already. :)

daniel

[usbnuts]

My dad bought me a Ericsson T39 w/o SIM card. Which wireless provider can I go with?

Bell, Telus, Fido?

Any ideas?

[JMountford]

I still say overall I would prefere two devices to one. But if PPCs were to have the right hardware I may decide to use it for a phone. I still doubt I will see any viable CDMA devices for a while though so it is a moot point. None the less, I think that if PPCs had the same kind of headphone/Microphone Jack that Cell Handsets use that would go a long way to making devices truly wireless. As I said in an earlier post Belkin is planning on producing a fairly universal Bluetooth headset that will have a seperate adapter that will plug in to any standard handset headset jack excluding Nokia and Erickson who do not use the standard jack. On top of that the OEM would have to provide a truly seamless Phone App that would use a headset to it's full potential both for phone and PDA functions.

[Jason Dunn]

My dad bought me a Ericsson T39 w/o SIM card. Which wireless provider can I go with?
Bell, Telus, Fido?


Fido for sure yes, Telus for sure no, and I'm not sure what network Bell Mobility uses.

[jeffmckean]

Right now, I'm using a 3870 plus an Ericsson T68 over GPRS for my connectivity. I'm trying to wean myself off of CDPD, but Voicestream's network limitations are frustrating. What I like about 'two devices' is the ability to switch between data and voice fairly seamlessly (although with the T68 you can't do both at once) and the fact that I can look at the PDA and talk without using a headset.
But, all that being said, I'll probably still get a Phone Edition device for the times I want to carry just one thing! I've played around with the HTC/o2 device, and it is quite small...actually smaller than the Jornada.
(Yes, I am hopeless!) :D

[Rob Alexander]

This device just wouldn't do it for me at all; I wouldn't even consider it. I've thought for a long time, that the best option would be a (very tiny) BT phone and BT PPC working together and I haven't seen any arguments in this thread that would change my mind.

Two things that I wouldn't live with under any circumstances are 1) an antenna sticking out and 2) a wired headset. On the former, it destroys the lines of the PPC and your ability to tuck it away in a relatively small case. From an ergonomic perspective, the PPC is as long as it's longest part, and this device is way too big even before you tag on the antenna. On the latter, I'm just picturing the time it takes me to get out my earbuds, untangle the wires, plug them in, turn on the PPC and get music playing. Now that works for music, but if this were the way I had to answer my mobile, then I'd never manage to answer a call before it was diverted to voicemail. Every time my phone rang, I'd look like something from a cheasy slapstick comedy routine.

No, give me a mobile phone (small enough to fit in the watch pocket of my jeans) for talking with and a PPC (with screen no smaller than the iPaq) for handling my portable information. Then if you can make the two talk to each other, you've got a winner. Anything else is either a compromise of one or the other or just another geek toy to amuse us momentarily until it's time to get back to doing some real work.

[usbnuts]

My dad bought me a Ericsson T39 w/o SIM card. Which wireless provider can I go with?
Bell, Telus, Fido?


Fido for sure yes, Telus for sure no, and I'm not sure what network Bell Mobility uses.


Oh Thanks! Doesn't seem like I have a lot of choices :)

[wangsanegara]

It is an interesting combination between PPC and Phone.

But Imagine this, you are on the road from 8 to 6, and forgot to bring your charger. How long does the battery on this PDA/Phone combo will last? I can easily get 3-4 days on my T68 on a single charge. My iPAQ is only last about 3-4 hours of continuous use. A combination of both, I would say that it will last about 8 hours at the most (2 batteries on 928 if i'm not mistaken). After the power is gone, then you will loose all that important call.

I personally would carry a separate device. :D

Another thing is I'm still not sure about the signal strength of this PDA/Phone. In my place, talking on the same network area with the same provider, a Nokia 8850 is barely able to stay connected to the network. But my T68 always had a moderate signal strength. I would not want to buy a 928 if it can't be use in a low signal strength area.

A.W :wink:

[JonnoB]

My Jornada with extended battery can go a few days without a charge. I am sure that you are not talking on the phone for 14+ hours. I agree that in principle that battery life will have to improve and XScale will help here quite a bit.

[Kre]

Ive had a change in heart about all of this. I used to think that Id want a ppc with integrated cellular. But Ive now decided against this. Im beginning to see the better value in having two separate devices. Although I take an Ipaq wherever I go, sometimes, I dont want to bring it with me, and most times, it would be too bulky and cumbersome to deal with whenever you received a call. A small cell phone is much easier to handle and deal with in terms of calls. I think the best situation would be a Bluetooth enabled cell phone and a ppc enabled the same way. This would be the best set up to me. Or a cell phone and a data enabled ppc without voice.

And after looking at the prices for GPRS, CDMA2000 Im hoping will be a much better value.

[wangsanegara]

Woow...Jornada can last for 14+ hours? I wonder why my iPAQ can only last for several hour. 8O

Well, lets just see real battery life when the device is release to the market.

A.W

[innersky]

suppose you buy a Pocket PC phone edition, and suppose it has bluetooth, and suppose you use a bluetooth headset, then you're actually carrying 2 devices, just as you'd carry a cellphone and a Pocket PC.

Thanks but no thanks, I'll stick with the cellphone/pda combo...

[Dave Conger]

Woow...Jornada can last for 14+ hours? I wonder why my iPAQ can only last for several hour. 8O

Well, lets just see real battery life when the device is release to the market.

A.W


I wish (though I understand why they don't do it) that companies would figure out the battery life for PDA's with their backlight all the way on. The we would know the range of life instead of just with the backlight off....how many people use their device for 14 hours with the backlight off?

[JonnoB]

Woow...Jornada can last for 14+ hours? I wonder why my iPAQ can only last for several hour. 8O


There is no question that the hours of use are misleading... but playing MP3's, I would not need a backlight on... or using a phone with remote headset, no backlight.

On another note: The Jornada with it's standard battery kicks the iPaq butt in terms of battery life and the extended battery just extends that even further... plus, you can actually swap batteries.

[marlof]

On another note: The Jornada with it's standard battery kicks the iPaq butt in terms of battery life and the extended battery just extends that even further... plus, you can actually swap batteries.


Did you try the 3800 series? I've always been highly critical of the first iPAQ release, as I found the product buggy and it had a terrible battery life IMO. But the battery life downside was solved with the 3800 series IMO. I can have the PPC on, connected to my T39 BT phone, and do the occassional email check, view the calendar etc, and it does not run down on a working day. I think that's amazing.

But that does bring me to my point: I currently have a BT phone / Pocket PC combination, and I enjoy it a lot. But one of the downsides is that Bluetooth eats battery life. My T39 could go without a charge for multiple days. With BT enabled and connected, it goes down in a day/one and a half day.

I'm looking forward to the Pocket PC / Phone combination. But I'd still want my phone with me. Why? Because I don't see this device as my regular voice call device. I don't like headsets (not even the bluetooth ones) and I don't think my clients would appreciate it if I'd put them on the speakerphone. Therefor this is too big for me.

Still, I'm very enthusiastic about this one. Why? Because it gives me the opportunity to use my Pocket PC as an always on wireless connected device. I receive much more messages by email than by SMS. The ability to be in touch over email is far more interesting to me, than the ability to send and receive SMS messages. I always feel that SMS is the dumber brother of email. Why stick with dumbo, when you can have full email access?

I don't believe in using a phone for data centric tasks. That is what I really love about the Pocket PC / BT phone combo I have right now: data access wherever I am on a platform that was made for data centric tasks. This kind of product would give this in an even better form factor, as there is no need anymore for battery eating bluetooth connections.

So my choice is data for the Pocket PC, and voice for the phone. The T39 will do, but I'm also really looking forward to a Smartphone 2002. :) If you excuse me, now I will have to order that dual SIM card...

[JMountford]

I love the idea of linking my Handset to my iPaq unfortunately even with the right cables I have never been able to get the connection to work through the com1 port on my iPaq. Unfortunately Sprint PCS doesn't care and to be honest the handsets available for CDMA service are really not on par with GSM handsets. I do not want my iPaq or any other PPC to have a phone built in, at the same time I would love to be able to hook my phone to my darn iPaq. I want a BT Handset for CDMA!!!!

[Kre]

I have to agree with JMountford about the phones. And Ill touch on that in a minute. But first, Im thinking that if any wireless was built into the pocket pc, it should be data only. I want to know that I can pull the ppc out of my pocket and go to any website I want. To send or receive faxes and emails and other messages and file transfers. I dont need voice capability in a ppc. Just wireless data capability. Sometimes its difficult to know what would be the best balance. But I suppose having the ability to do wireless via Bluetooth would certainly be great to have as a back up option, but Im thinking that having data capability integrated into the ppc would allow the device to be independant of any cell phone, which I think would be the best balance. This way, I could be online and doing other things while talking on my cell. Either just plain gprs data or some cdma version for data would be great. Ive gone back and forth with all of this, but I think Ive decided finally. Just make the ppc data capable, not voice capable. These devices were certainly meant for wireless data, but not really voice calls. Theyre too bulky for voice calls. No one in their right mind would go out and search for a cell phone this big. So no voice, just wireless data capability. That would be perfect.

Enter Smartphone. This is what Ive been waiting for. For voice, GSM is far too expensive and not wide spread enough in the States right now, so CDMA has to be the way to go. Im hoping these Smartphones come out quickly. Ill be in the market for a new one in about a month, so I really want to see something nice. All the phones that carriers offer are so butt ugly and boring. Right now, Sprint has the best looking, most interesting phones, but Im only set on one... The Sanyo 5150. All the other carriers have this boring or retro looking crap, to be quite honest. And none of them have Bluetooth or color phones. Those of you who can at least use the Ericsson BT phones are really fortunate. So either I go with Sprint and their ridiculous roaming charges, and the Sanyo phone, or I wait for the Smartphone, whatever flavor that will be. It would be nice to see a Smartphone that would work on Verizons network, or on Sprints network, as long as Sprint gets RID of those stupid ROAMING CHARGES! I really want one of these Smartphones for all of the features, the color screen, hopefully the BT, SD card slot, mp3, and whatever else it comes with. I cant wait. Hurry, Microsoft! Hurry!!! A Smarphone would be perfect for me for a number of reasons. Easy to work with like a normal cell, without having to always fumble with an earset like you might always have to with a handheld, without the massive bulk of a handheld serving as a phone, and a perfect alternative for those times that I want to leave my ppc behind, without having to give up all of the data capabilities and fun that a ppc could and does provide, like a color screen, music, expandable memory, some pim features, email, graphical web and maybe a few simple games, among other things.

I do have to say though, that if Microsoft goes with GSM in the States, at least to start out with, theyll be making a huge mistake. Voicestreams GSM network is a joke because they dont have adequate coverage and everybody knows it. The only other carrier with GSM is AT&T, and they only offer GSM in Washington and Oregon. Hardly useful. I cant say if Cingular has GSM, but if they do, I know its not national. They dont even have national coverage for their TDMA network. So choosing TDMA to play on AT&T and Cingular, I think might be a mistake as well. I believe CDMA is going to be the best bet. At least to start out with. Because Im thinking of initial market penetration here, which is what Microsoft is going to need to get Smartphone enough attention to stick. CDMA on Sprint and Verizon I believe would be the best choice. They both have national coverage with no long distance, and very good coverage on their networks. Especially Verizon, which additionally offers no roaming on some of their plans. This would allow Smartphone to garner the most users initially. But I know this could be tackled at different angles. This is just the one that makes the most sense to me. Id be very curious to see what others think about this.

So a 2.5G or 3G data enabled pocket pc, along with a Smartphone, both on no roaming, no long distance, national coverage plans. This would be perfect. Now if they can just get these Smartphones to work with BT enabled earsets and pocket pc`s...

[mememe]

I do have to say though, that if Microsoft goes with GSM in the States, at least to start out with, theyll be making a huge mistake. Voicestreams GSM network is a joke because they dont have adequate coverage and everybody knows it. The only other carrier with GSM is AT&T, and they only offer GSM in Washington and Oregon. Hardly useful. I cant say if Cingular has GSM, but if they do, I know its not national.


:roll:

God?! What a closed view of the world. The reason MS would go w/
GSM/GPRS initially has to do with economies of scale, eg. they can service
the world with one model (w/ different frequencies) vs. multiple different models (CDMA/TDMA). It is a better BUSINESS decision to do this.

You are an 'mercan afterall, if it's not ours "screw 'em"!

[Carlos]

I am dying for a solution like this. I don't go anywhere without my PPC anyway, and I very rarely go anywhere without my cell phone headset. It wouldn't change much for me as far as what I carry, but it sure would be convenient to have phone auto dial, GSM data/GPRS, logging of phone calls, etc. A Bluetooth headset would be damn cool, but wired wouldn't be so bad.

[wangsanegara]

Another though that made me choose to have 2 devices is that I occasionally wondered around the factory floor and always carry my cell phone. It would be a hassle to carry my PPC. In this case I would just leave my PPC on my desk.

A.W :)

[Kre]

I do have to say though, that if Microsoft goes with GSM in the States, at least to start out with, theyll be making a huge mistake. Voicestreams GSM network is a joke because they dont have adequate coverage and everybody knows it. The only other carrier with GSM is AT&T, and they only offer GSM in Washington and Oregon. Hardly useful. I cant say if Cingular has GSM, but if they do, I know its not national.


:roll:

God?! What a closed view of the world. The reason MS would go w/
GSM/GPRS initially has to do with economies of scale, eg. they can service
the world with one model (w/ different frequencies) vs. multiple different models (CDMA/TDMA). It is a better BUSINESS decision to do this.

You are an 'mercan afterall, if it's not ours "screw 'em"!


:roll:
Oh please. Talk about being closed minded. Do you stereotype all Americans this way? Is it the trendy thing to do?

I find it amazing that a complete stranger has the ability to judge me by reading a few sentences. Get off your high horse.

I absolutely do not have a closed view of the world, but because I actually LIVE in the United States, I have to think about what will actually be practical HERE, not over seas. If they roll out only a GSM device, that would be great for everyone else, but what about us? I cant think about what will be great two years from now, but what will actually WORK right now. When good GSM coverage supplemented by good GPRS coverage actually exists, then Id say, bring it on. But until then... Microsoft could introduce two devices. One for GSM and one for CDMA. Theres no reason why they couldnt. Certainly they could afford it. Until the standards mesh here in the States, CDMA is certainly a better choice over GSM.

Im looking for a device that I can actually use, not just dream about.

[Carlos]

Gotta love people who repeat a myth to maintain some weird American-centric point of view. VoiceStream's GSM coverage is as good as Sprint's CDMA coverage. In fact, I'm the only VS user in my company, and when we travel together, people ask for my phone frequently since it's the most reliable. When they're losing Sprint and AT&T coverage, mine works. All of VoiceStream's network has GPRS now.

The reason we're so behind on getting technologies here is that we don't conform with the world standard. GSM does, but we still had to screw it up by going to 1900 instead of 1800. At least by staying GSM, all a manufacturer has to do is modify the transceiver.

[Kre]

I dont know what youre referring to as a myth, and Im not American centric. Im trying to figure out what is the best carrier to go with in the States so that wireless can become a reality in my part of the world and in my life, too. This all takes some serious thought because of how fast things change.

I just havent had a good experience with VS. Often times, relatives of mine also wouldnt have coverage even in some parts of certain metro areas. Im not sure where it is you travel, but maybe where youre at, the coverage is ok, but in this part of the west coast at least, it hasnt been very good in the past, and would be my last choice. Many others Ive talked to, would never go back to VS or choose VS because of all the negative experiences they and others have had with it. When I talk about coverage, Im not just talking about major metropolitan areas. Im talking about all over, rural areas included. But perhaps, VS has gotten much better since then, and I should give them another look. Now that Im aware they have gprs, thats great to know.

Sprints digital coverage isnt very good now that Ive looked at it more. They have far too much roaming. And of course, every plan they have charges for it. So Ive decided Sprint wouldnt be a good choice for me at all, unless Im flying most of the time, in which the only times Id probably use the phone, is when Ive landed in a major metro area. But since this is not the case for me, Sprint would not be a wise choice, unless Im looking for huge, out of control bills each month.

AT&Ts gsm and gprs just isnt good enough at this point. They only have coverage in two states on the west coast right now that Im aware of, maybe a couple more, not to mention the service is ridiculously expensive. So theyre not a viable choice either in terms of coverage and price.

Nextel and Cingular cant offer what I need. So I have to say no to them, too.

That leaves Verizon. Verizon has excellent digital coverage across the nation. Verizon would be the only way to go, as far as CDMA 2.5G is concerned.

So I guess this narrows my choices down to Verizon and Voice Stream, if VS really is as good as you say they are. As long as the coverage is really solid, and the prices are reasonable, then Id be happy to give VS another look.

I too, am very frustrated with all of the standards that we have here in the States. Its ridiculous. We should have the same standards as Europe and Asia. As a matter of fact, I think there should be one standard on all seven continents. America really needs to get its act together on this one. Hopefully 4G can indeed mesh everything into one. Thats the goal anyway.

So, Ill take your word for it, Carlos. Ill check out VS again, and see how much better its become. If it cant offer what I need, then Verizon CDMA has to be the way. Time will tell. Thanks for the input about VS.

[Carlos]

I travel for business, and don't have any particular cities I visit regularly. I've experienced excellent coverage with VS. In California, GSM is provided by Cingular, and is very bad in most areas. I have never experienced a particular issue in any VS area, just Cingular. The only Pacific Coast area with VS coverage that I've been to is the Seattle area. In the Southeast, VS coverage has shown itself to be greatly superior to the others. On recent trips to NC, SC, and GA, I had coverage in areas where my associates had none.

VS isn't perfect, but they are the fastest expanding coverage and technology as far as I can see. They also have vastly better customer service than Sprint and AT&T. I strongly believe that using an established technology with global support is the clearly better direction. CDMA will never have the userbase of GSM, and as we've seen, userbase does lead to better products.

[Kre]

If gsm and gprs is truly the stongest choice here, then I would prefer tri band gsm. To me, that would be the best way to go, in that case. But I cant say if VS and its gsm gprs network is better than Verizons cdma network. If VS is indeed expanding at a very rapid rate, then thats great. I hope thats what I find when I look into it more. All these standards are such a pain. Sometimes I think Microsoft should fit the bill for an entire wireless infrastructure and end all this nonsense. Say, five billion dollars. They could sure afford it. But of course, who wants MS running it all?

I believe the whole world will be on one system eventually. I really do. And certain groups will fit the bill initially. Hopefully 4G will take care of all of this disparate nonsense on the technical end, and bring some sense to the dummies that choose to segregate wireless because of their egos and lack of vision.

Its confusing here at times, isnt it?

I knew VS had gsm, but they never advertise their gprs, so I wasnt even aware that they had it. I wonder how theyll compete with AT&T and Cingular once both their gsm networks really take hold?

Of course when it comes to choosing a technology that has global support, one has to consider wcdma. My understanding is that this is where Europe, Asia, and America are headed eventually, anyway. So the question then becomes, is the natural progression to wcdma stem from gsm and gprs, or cdma 1xrtt? Im not sure of this answer. Ill have to research this for myself. Could cdma could be the best choice in terms of global vision after all?

But then again, unless a user needs coverage not only across the nation here, but clear into Europe and Asia, then it wouldnt matter to any one else what we chose or demanded here in the States, so long as it worked. Isnt this really the issue until things can get hashed out? Designers and manufacturers should give each world region what it needs. With Europe and Asia and their one standard, this is hardly an issue. Here in the States, though, if manufacturers want true market penetration, theyll need to offer devices in both gsm and cdma flavors. The lesser alternative would be deciding on the one technology that will give them the most bang for their investment buck, so to speak.

Wireless is tech thats easy to love to hate. Drives me crazy trying hard to see where everything is headed and what devices will make the best investment based on service, etc. Everything changes so rapidly and is criss crossing all over the place. Its a madhouse to say the least.

But in all this analysis, the most important thing to remember, IMO, is the simplest thing. Which is the bottom line, being that we all can have wireless devices and phones that work, regardless of what network we choose. Hopefully, as wireless devices progress, these wireless device makers will open their eyes to this even more and respond accordingly. That is, until the world can come together and all shake hands.

[wangsanegara]

I think for people who travels across different continents, GSM still the only choice available.

So if the coverage of Voicestream is not as good as Verizon, at least the phone (3 band phone) works in Frankfurt or in Singapore.

A.W

[veroi]

The HP 928 according to other web sites is SIM free, but no one seems to know how to buy it. Does anyone of this site know???????