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View Full Version : Do you want a better audio player?


Jason Dunn
02-14-2002, 11:35 PM
Once upon a time, in a <a href="http://www.palmsizemedia.com/front.php3">land before Pocket PCs</a> (the era of the Palm-size PCs), a little company named Conduits released a product dubbed Pocket Player. Pocket Player supported MP3 files, had a visualization option, and the developer actually listened to user feedback. Here's what the artifact looked like:<br /><br /><img src="http://www.conduits.com/products/player/ppmain.jpg" /><br /><br />Conduits charged $14.95 for the player, and it was the most popular player around until Microsoft released their free player (Microsoft Mobile Audio Player) for the 2nd generation colour Palm-size PC devices. Still, the initial Microsoft audio player was very limited, and many users (myself included) kept using Pocket Player. Back in the day, we also had UtopiaSoft Hum, and a very basic, almost command line-like audio player based on the XAudio MPEG Audio engine that all these non-Microsoft players were based on.<br /><br />Fast forward to February 2002, and what options do we have for audio players on the Pocket PC? We have the Windows Media Player 8.0 for the Pocket PC, but it's rife with frustrating problems that didn't get corrected from 7.1 to 8.0. Ever tried to build play lists off a 1 gig Microdrive with 300 songs? You need the patience of someone in a trance.<br /><br />There's <a href="http://40th.com/wce/iplay_gt/">iPlay from 40th Floor Software</a>, but it doesn't play WMA files, has a brutal user interface, and you need a degree in cryptography to figure out their web site (and the blessing of Buddha to get a registration key). That, and the author flames me publicly every chance he gets. Hi Cornel!<br /><br />We have a combo video/audio player in <a href="http://www.projectmayo.com/projects/detail.php?projectId=9">Pocket DivX</a>, but it's an evolving tool that isn't designed to work like a traditional audio player. It has promise, but I didn't find it very easy to use for audio.<br /><br />And that's about it. I've emailed the makers of Winamp to ask if they have any interest in making a Pocket PC version of their software, but I've never received a response. So far, no one has stepped up to offer a Pocket PC audio player with the features that an audiophile like myself really needs.<br /><br />Here's the point: if Conduits were to create an updated player that supported MP3, WMA, perhaps (??) <a href="http://www.vorbis.com/index.psp">Ogg Vorbis</a>, and offered killer play list support, and other features, would you be interested in buying it? I'm not working with Conduits on this - this is a completely independent survey for my own information. Of course, the goal in doing this survey is to gather some information that might convince Conduits to invest the development time in creating the ultimate Pocket PC audio player. If anyone can do it, Conduits can. :-) Cast your vote! (I've opened up voting to unregistered users as well)

wiredguy
02-14-2002, 11:52 PM
Yeah, and it would be killer to include visualizations :)!

Mr. PPC
02-14-2002, 11:55 PM
If there was a way to remove the WMP from the ROM image then I think any third-party app would be a huge hit. Obviously, there are those who would load a 2nd Media Player on their units because they play MP3, WMA files so much. I just think many will stay with WMP because it doesn't take up space as it is already in the ROM.

People who have upgraded from the PocketPC 2000 to 2002 would be the perfect target for the app, as they have to load a Media Player themselves.

It would be nice if Microsoft just fixed the issues, as we all know they can.

icatar
02-15-2002, 12:17 AM
I'm happy using Media Player. I'm not sure how many people out there use Microdrives and have the space for 300+ songs. I'm using a 128 MB CF for storage and it holds enough songs for me.

QYV
02-15-2002, 12:23 AM
I want a WMA file player that actually *saves* my place when I pause it and quit the app! Otherwise the hassle of ripping CDs and juggling CF cards makes it easier to just use my Discman...

Daniel
02-15-2002, 12:27 AM
It would have to be at a good price point. I've (like everybody else it seems) had problems with WMP, but if they were to charge US$15 that's AU$30 for us suckers here in AU (Yes I am thankful that most people price in USD as opposed to UK Pounds!).

I'll give it a go for sure.

innersky
02-15-2002, 01:25 AM
Playing OGG files on a Pocket PC is not so obvious. This would take up alot of resources, as it uses a complex decoder.

BTW, would anyone be interested in the ability to play MOD files on a Pocket PC ??

JonnoB
02-15-2002, 02:10 AM
Yes.... my Amiga roots yearning to break out. A WinAmp port with WinAmp skins, visulazations, plug-ins, etc would be the best.

altus
02-15-2002, 02:46 AM
I absolutely LOVE PocketPlayer so far. What it needs is:

-Windows Media Audio playback

-user-mappable buttons (current mapping is incomplete and impractical)

-screen toggle option mappable to a hardware button
(just like WMP, so we can conserve battery power)

-a fix for that nasty clicking preamplifier!
(I'm talking about PocketPlayer's own preamp module)

-more skins :)

If the above things are included in the next version,
PocketPlayer will become perfect. I'll be the first one to buy it!

T-Will
02-15-2002, 03:20 AM
Here's my priorities in a music player:

1. Audio Quality
2. EQ
3. Microdrive/CF/SD caching support
4. Good playlist editor, one that makes it easy to change while driving, maybe large buttons where the user can use their finger instead of a stylus
5. Map hardware buttons
6. MP3 support
7. Low processor usage
8. Skin support
9. Visuals would be cool

wrongsanchez
02-15-2002, 08:25 AM
Beatnik (http://www.beatnik.com/software/player_pocketpc.html) offers a player that will handle mp3s. Screen shots look cool....anyone give it a go yet?

Paul

Take1
02-15-2002, 08:31 AM
Frankly, I am dissapointed that Conduits haven't done much with the PocketPlayer. I purchased that program twice -- once for my Casio E-100 (called PalmPlayer then) and again for my iPAQ3600 (needed ARM support). I would use this program as my primary player if it could play .wma files (then new MS encoder for XP is stellar -- sounds just like an MP3 at 128 kHz!).

They are the only company that makes an .mp3 player that had a VU meter and until recently, a pre-amp. If they could provide button assignment (with active/passsive settings), .wma support, and an EQ, it would be the best audio player for PPC!

Conduits makes great stuff and I've purchased at least 4 of their software titles over the past couple of years and would not hesitate to purchase PocketPlayer again!

Jason Dunn
02-15-2002, 08:50 AM
Beatnik (http://www.beatnik.com/software/player_pocketpc.html) offers a player that will handle mp3s. Screen shots look cool....anyone give it a go yet?


It's a cool concept, and their technology for stripping out audio tracks in the custom Beatnik format is AWESOME, but as a standard audio player it's very limited.

RLBogue
02-15-2002, 12:49 PM
Jason - I know the focus of the thought/question is music, but I wouldn't mind a player that had a sane way to jump forward or backwards in a file. This is particularly useful when you start to think about online radio shows, and the audio content that's starting to become available through Mazingo. Trying to navigate a 1 hour audio file with the slider is like trying to keep an ice cube from melting in the desert.

And I totally agree with you on the playlist thing.

Rob

FredMurphy
02-15-2002, 02:39 PM
I actually bought Utopiasoft Hum back on my old Casio E-105. Hate the way WMP refuses to play some of my MP3s. Not worked out why yet - maybe VBR?

Do these older players still work on the latest devices? I might just have to fire one up to check. They may still beat WMP! Was it just me or did WMP7.1 work BETTER than 8?

Fred

Barak
02-15-2002, 03:49 PM
I dislike Windows Media Player that I'd consider anything at this point.

As long as it plays mp3's, count me in!

racerx
02-15-2002, 04:43 PM
I would love to see another music player, especially one that has better support for MP3s and lots of songs & playlists. I suffer from the same problem you do that I've got tons of music, but am kind of limited in what I do with it do to the limited nature of WMP. I ended up ripping my CD collection to WMAs just so I wouldn't have to convert them evertime I wanted to copy them to a CF card.

In this case, CHOICE IS GOOD and I encourage Conduits to re-release their player for PPC 2000/2!

Aceze
02-15-2002, 04:52 PM
Unfortunately, this is the problem with Microsoft's integration strategy. While it is nice to have built in functionality, it KILLS any kind of decent competition. With every single PPC having the Media player, what kind of incentive do people have to innovate?

Witness, no really good and fast text editor because of PocketWord. Why do you think the Palm world has software that handles Microsoft documents better than any Microsoft PocketPC software (I'm talking about Documents to Go by Dataviz)? It's because of the pack in (and really attrocious) Pocket Word (which I have never used due to it's many limitations and poor performance).

Witness, a really attrocious web browser. Now, I only have 2 PPC2000 units (EM-500, and E-125), but even overclocked, the web page rendering speed is terrible (not even mentioning all the other issues with this)! On the other hand, we have Opera out for Symbian that's fast and robust - but oh no, we're stuck with this pig of a browser. The fact that Microsoft included this in the box ensures that users will be forced to upgrade units (and hence OS) to get better software - instead of software getting better and more efficient.

I've since stopped using PPC Media player due to the problems I have with it - bad MP3 support, on visualization, no EQ, terrible playlist support, no option to play music files from anywhere I like, bad file-indexing performance (how long does it take to load up when you have a hundred songs?), etc, etc, etc. I'd love to see Utopiasoft come out with a better player (or Winamp even, but I'm not holding my breath)... but what about all the other apps that need better alternatives?

Aceze

Jason Dunn
02-15-2002, 05:10 PM
Good post Aceze - I've been planning a front-page post on this for a while now. You'll find it most....intriguing. 8)

spg
02-15-2002, 05:24 PM
It would depend on the price.. and of course when I get that 1gig microdrive ;).

~Spencer

Aceze
02-15-2002, 05:50 PM
Hey Jason,
Thanks... as you can tell, I'm very bummed with the capabilities of the unit being somewhat stunted by the lack of software innovation (yes, that's right, the lack of it!) when it comes to stuff that's built in. Hell, I could go on for days about the subject...

Intrigued eh? Well, I already check this dang website multiple times a day, I'll definitely keep my eyes peeled for your article...! 8O

Aceze

burmashave
02-15-2002, 05:50 PM
Jason-

Excllent thought -- I agree wholeheartedly with your review of current audio player options. I may be wrong about this; however, it seems to me that Conduits does not put much effort into updating their applications. I wonder if their development or acquisition process readily supports upgrades.

Nevertheless, I would absolutely purchase an audio player if a better one were available. (I'm not ready to experience the weirdness required by the 40th Floor developer.) For me, the key features would be better playlists and an equalizer or bass/mid/treble controls.

Gen-M
02-15-2002, 08:34 PM
I'm only a casual music listener - WMP meets my needs good enough as far as playing music. However, I totally agree with the complaints about the disfunctional Playlist management functionality.

MS Reader has the same if not worse problems with Library management.

In both cases, does media management need to be bundled with media players? Different people want to manage their media differently - there should be some room for choice here, too.

mar2k
02-15-2002, 09:20 PM
Has anyone tried the iPlay software? I'm just curious as to how it works, especially in regards to VBR MP3s.

arjay
02-16-2002, 02:30 AM
I use iPlay, because it's the best currently available. I've fussed about the interface and the registration method, etc., but it does an exceptional job. I get better battery life (read the web page for details on cacheing), and better sound then any of the other players out there. I like Conduits interface, but 40th St is the power player right now.

rj

Jason Dunn
02-16-2002, 03:58 AM
it seems to me that Conduits does not put much effort into updating their applications. I wonder if their development or acquisition process readily supports upgrades.


It depends on the application. They just released Pocket Slides 1.5, Pocket Artist 2.0 is coming very soon, etc. Something like Pocket Player doesn't get updated if there's no demand for it...thus, I'm trying to stir up demand. :wink:

Kirk Stephens
02-16-2002, 04:51 AM
Ahhh, the good old days. I still have Utopiasoft Hum player on my Cassiopeia E-105.

Anyhow, I also think Microsoft's current audio player isn't "all that." I have a 1 gig microdrive with a decent amount of mp3s on it, and as was mentioned, putting a playlist together is a hassel. However, I don't know how willing I would be to go out and buy a audio player. I would buy one if and only if it was far superior to microsoft's.

Don't Panic!
02-16-2002, 08:28 AM
I actually bought Utopiasoft Hum back on my old Casio E-105. Hate the way WMP refuses to play some of my MP3s. Not worked out why yet - maybe VBR?

Do these older players still work on the latest devices? I might just have to fire one up to check. They may still beat WMP! Was it just me or did WMP7.1 work BETTER than 8?

Fred
PocketPlayer works on my 3835. I bought it last month to listen to my OTR files. I think WMP Technology Preview 2 worked better than both WMP 7.1 and 8.

Now how do I vote in this poll? update: Oh so that's how :oops: I actually would pay again although I did pay full price last month. But I would prefer that the new version be made availabe as a free upgrade to registered users.

Don't Panic!
Bobby

Jason Dunn
02-16-2002, 05:22 PM
I would prefer that the new version be made availabe as a free upgrade to registered users.


With all due respect, developers have rent to pay and food to buy too. :-) You only paid $14.95, and that was two years ago. The software still works on the Pocket PC. Any update would involve putting an entirely new engine in there (one that plays WMA), which is a LOT of work. He's basically re-writing most of the app from scratch.

Dave Conger
02-16-2002, 08:21 PM
With all due respect, developers have rent to pay and food to buy too. :-) You only paid $14.95, and that was two years ago.


My only thing is, that WMP is basically free right now. I understand the difference of WMP coming from a big company and they already have a engine built on other platforms. I would totally be willing to pay for a better player, but innovation is definatly needed to make me want to buy something. It seems like there has been a lot of emphasis places lately on skinning, and some "new" software that doesn't impliment much more then that for the user. But if there was a better option then WMP with some extra I thought I could really use, then the $15 wouldn't be a big deal. That is just me though.

spg
02-16-2002, 08:57 PM
With all due respect, developers have rent to pay and food to buy too. :-) You only paid $14.95, and that was two years ago.


My only thing is, that WMP is basically free right now. I understand the difference of WMP coming from a big company and they already have a engine built on other platforms. I would totally be willing to pay for a better player, but innovation is definatly needed to make me want to buy something. It seems like there has been a lot of emphasis places lately on skinning, and some "new" software that doesn't impliment much more then that for the user. But if there was a better option then WMP with some extra I thought I could really use, then the $15 wouldn't be a big deal. That is just me though.


Very well put! I must say, I agree with you totally.

Jason Dunn
02-16-2002, 09:57 PM
I would totally be willing to pay for a better player, but innovation is definatly needed to make me want to buy something.


Absolutely - I wouldn't have started this thread unless I felt that Conduits could bring something good to the trable and make it worth whatever they charge for it. :-)

Don't Panic!
02-17-2002, 12:17 AM
I would prefer that the new version be made availabe as a free upgrade to registered users.


With all due respect, developers have rent to pay and food to buy too. :-) You only paid $14.95, and that was two years ago. The software still works on the Pocket PC. Any update would involve putting an entirely new engine in there (one that plays WMA), which is a LOT of work. He's basically re-writing most of the app from scratch.
Uh no Jason, I payed 14.95 for it on January 22, 2002. I agree that developers deserve something for their efforts but paying for an upgrade after less then a month of ownership seems harsh. I don't need wma support, just better playback of MP3's. Heck if they provide wma support I probably wouldn't be able to play the files I purchased it for in the first place. :roll:

Don't Panic!
Bobby