What if...

[Andy Sjostrom]

Ed just said in the <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=172">previous post</a>: "How things change in just two short years.". Well, let me take that for another spin!<br /><br />What if Palm OS 5 takes off with brand new hardware, including phone combos, from Palm and other licensees?<br />What if Palm gets a great new user interface, multimedia, multitasking?<br />What if all old Palm apps just work on these new machines?<br />What if Palm continues to exclusively hold on to what the Pocket PC doesn't have: brand recognition, decent battery life, price and form factor?<br />What if the "Pocket PC camp" goes as stale as the first page of <a href="http://www.pocketpc.com">PocketPC.com</a>?<br /><br />What if Nokia releases a super smart Symbian-phone with great connectivity and multimedia features?<br />What if Motorola and Sony/Ericsson follow shortly thereafter and release even smarter Symbian-phones?<br />What if Sun REALLY succeeds in bringing a decent Java VM down to these phones?<br /><br />In two short years, from now, what looked to be off to a great start can be left in the dust, unless...<br /><br />• Microsoft increases the speed of Pocket PC innovation.<br />• Pocket PC OEMs get their act together, and make even better hardware.<br />• Microsoft gets at least two of the top five cell phone manufacturers making the Smartphone 2002.<br />• Microsoft can convince mobile operators that Internet is really not a threat, and why this is so.

[Ed Hansberry]

Excellent point. Lots of "if's" though.

IMHO, Palm won't have rich multimedia in OS5. I've seen various posts around the internet that multitasking won't really be there in OS5 at the user level. It is there, but hidden. OS6 is where it gets exposes, but that also breaks about 100% of current Palm apps, so OS5 is the transitional OS to allow dev's to get their stuff modified.

I don't see much Palm innovation in hardware, though Sony does seem to get it.

"if" everything you said comes to pass, Palm is ready for a rebirth. Judging from what has been reported at PalmSource, I don't think that is going to happen, not in 2002 anyway.

I think you make a great point RE: the carriers though. I have a feeling they are going to ruin the US PocketPC PHone/Stinger experience for a yaer or so until they do get it.

[IpaqMan2]

But that isthe whole point...

Microsoft and their vendors need to do a little more innovationto seperate themselves apart and ahead of the Palm community. Even though PPCs are years ahead of current Palms, PPCs are still the underdog and need to show the world, that, "oh yeah PPCs can do that too (referring to what Palms cando ) and a heck of a whole lot more.

By virtual of their name only Palm has more acceptence to the world than PPCs. Next because of their pricing alone, Palm attracts more people to them than PPCs, (though most all are ignorant to technology) the figures still scream, CHEAPER than any PPCs. And last, Palm reminds me of a little school girl with every breeze of the wind they are poking out and pointing to the world showing what they can do, no matter how great or small their accomplishments are they are gaining the and rubbing their success into the public. Face it...even after al the marketshare Palm has lost, they still have bragging rights. They are still number 1 in sales.

Maybe because Palm has more to loose..like their business all together, I just don't see MS trying to push the PPCs as hard as Palm.

Anyway.. as many IFs as was discussed, I would love to see PPCs do some of what is mentioned abouve.

[Ferdinand_Lovetree]

"What if Nokia releases a super smart Symbian-phone with great connectivity and multimedia features?"

Since I got my 9210 (and before you say it, I know it's got limited internal RAM, but at least someone is trying to release smartphones :lol: ), I've been able to

Type word document (with spell checker and thesaurus)
Work on spreadsheets
Make notes
Send and receive e-mail
Send and receive SMS
Send and receive FAXes
Browse the web
Browse WAP (though don't ask why I would want to :wink: )
Use a calendar with Month, Week, Day, Task list, Weekly time schedule, Year schedule and Anniversay views
The best contacts app I've ever seen
View Powerpoint presentations
Run JAVA applications
Play Games
Play RealVideo
Play RealAudio
Record ringtones
Make a telephone call :D

All with the included software. Then, with additional registered software I can;

Play more games
Manage archives
Run MIDLETs
Customize the GUI (though even better is on the way)
Plan projects
View PDF files ( :!: and the software was not at all expensive)
Send/receive picture messages via SMS
Send/receive ringtones via SMS
Edit ringtones as .rng
Edit WAV files with special effects and use them as ringtones
Run a VNC client
Manage databases

Ok, so it's not a PocketPC but please, you must be a very insecure person if you feel you have to blow out other people's candles just to make yours look brighter.

[Foo Fighter]

Thank you Andy for bringing some sanity back to this topic! :)

Palm Inc. may be suffering, but the PalmOS is still a widely revered platform that millions of users put to work every day. Many PocketPC fans act under the assumption that consumers are waiting for Microsoft to rescue us from the shackles of our Palm handhelds, but in reality...most people LOVE their PalmOS device. And Palm is about to move into other devices as well (as I predicted they would)...Digital Cameras...MP3 players...gaming devices. The only thing really lacking is RESOURCES.

Palm faces a difficult road ahead. But to write the platform off so early in the game is very short-sighted. We have only begun to see what PDAs are capable of. And why do some of you WANT the Palm platform to go away? In what way would this benefit anyone? Fewer choices...more expensive devices. I don't get it?

[jlc, just jlc]

MS legitimizes the market, but their size and strength doesn't give them that much of an advantage, at least in the mobile phone market. Why:

1. Unlike PCs, phones are easily swapped (but not providers, at leat not in the US - if you want to keep your number), which means if something new comes along, users can quickly upgrade; because,

2. there is very little learning curve or existing investment in softwrae/data that ties one to an OS, especially since a converter can move contacts/emails/etc. to a new unit; finally,

3. the moneys in the service contract, not the phone, for providers. If someone comes out with a neat new phone that's hot, providers will offer it, if only to keep selling contracts.

[bripirie]

What is happening is this: competition in the PDA market is going to continue to be fierce. Competition tends to be a good thing for us consumers.

Just think, if Pocket PC didn't exist, I highly doubt Palm would be coming out with a Palm OS 5 that moves to higher-power processors, and adds other features previously present in the Pocket PC os but on in the PalmOS.

MS obviously has to do something to respond, which I fully expect to mean better (and who knows, maybe even lower priced) Pocket PC devices in the coming years.

I for one, as a die-hard Pocket PC user, am glad to see Palm OS 5 on the way.

[innersky]

Ferdinand has a point here.
Where is the smartphone 2002 ??? It's almost vaporware..
If Nokia or Ericsson beats the smartphone 2002 (I hate that name) release date with a device that is capable of doing the same, I'm sure gonna buy it.

You have to admit that the Nokia 7650 really comes close...

[JohnnyFlash]

What if Sun REALLY succeeds in bringing a decent Java VM down to these phones?


Believe me: Sun has really very little to do with putting Java to phones. In fact Sun is a very INEFFECTIVE, arrogant and ignorant company. I know personally Nicolas Lorain ( [email protected] ), wireless Java manager in Sun, and he sucks: incompetent and his inability is slowing down whole process of popularization of mobile Java. I know personally people from various countries who participate in Java standarization forums and Sun is there very very slow.

Sun, shortly speaking sucks. And it is thanks to industry and vendors that they put Java on mobile phones and it succeds, but it has nothing to do with Sun. In Korea there are even "clean room JVM implementations" which are produced totally without any connection to Sun, and they rock! (no wonder Samsung is already number 2 vendor of mobile phones in the world)

And Java on phones is not a competition for PocketPC, these Java applications are too simple, see for example http://www.midlet.org how simple those applications are...

[Ferdinand_Lovetree]

Something tells me that you don't like Sun. I can't tell what gives me that impression, it's almost not there, but..... hmmmmmm, yes, I'm definately thinking that you don't like sun.

[Perry]

Wow,
Objectivity on PocketPCthounghts. What next?

This is a great site, but IMO it has a decidedly fanboy flavor. When a site like this becomes an organ for the community, the danger exists that in all the ra! ra! complacency sets in.

If you want to serve the platform, point out the flaws and how MS should fix them. The little 'What if...' article is the first one I have seen in more than a year of reading CE news that addresses what is missing in the product and the business plan.

[riverbruce]

A most excellent thread! Congratulations Andy!

[JohnnyFlash]

Something tells me that you don't like Sun. I can't tell what gives me that impression, it's almost not there, but..... hmmmmmm, yes, I'm definately thinking that you don't like sun.


No Ferdinand, it is just sad truth. Sun corp. simply sucks and great changce to make mobile Java rock can be lost...

Example: movements in Java standarization industry forums is moving very slowly and ineffectively. What happens? Vendors, which cannot wait for idiots (!) from Sun are making their own vendor specific standard extensions and now "write once, run everywhere" idea is jeopardized !!! Example: Siemens SL45i and its MIDP extentions...

I could go on and on. I am so p*ssed off by this situation that now I am seriously thinking about Microsoft's Smart phone and .Net platforms...

[Scott R]

Wow,
Objectivity on PocketPCthounghts. What next?

This is a great site, but IMO it has a decidedly fanboy flavor. When a site like this becomes an organ for the community, the danger exists that in all the ra! ra! complacency sets in.

If you want to serve the platform, point out the flaws and how MS should fix them. The little 'What if...' article is the first one I have seen in more than a year of reading CE news that addresses what is missing in the product and the business plan.

I don't think anyone would accuse me of being a PPC fanboy, so let me just say this: This site does far more to convey the problems and user concerns of the PPC than any other. I'd suggest you take a look at several of the past news items. To be sure, there's a PPC-bias, but this is a PPC site after all. I was a bit worried with EdH's addition to the staff, but I'm glad to see that there's still a decent balance here.

Back on topic...I'm not sure if MS' attempts to improve security/stability on their desktop platform is sincere or not, but I think they've reached a point there (the desktop) where they see that pumping out a new OS with glitzy new features isn't selling as well as years past. The difference between Windows 2000 and XP or ME and XP just isn't as significant (from the outside user looking in) to create the enthusiasm that the 3.1 to 95 transition had. Whether it's sincere or not, I'm much more excited about the move to squash some bugs, etc. and hopefully produce a more stable OS. I'd love to see them expand this approach to include optimization (speed and size) so that the next version of the desktop OS could actually look just like XP but have a smaller footprint, be faster, and be more stable. I really think people would buy that in droves.

Oh, was that back on topic? Oh yeah, I was going somewhere with that...I think the PPC has most of the features people want. Adding new features isn't the answer, IMO. What they need to do is decrease the cost of the devices, increase battery life, improve the UI, and fix the things that are broken. I also think they need to do everything in their power to ensure that all current generation StrongARM devices will run at least the next version of the OS (that includes the oldest iPaqs). If this means that they need to keep the ROM size below 16MB, so be it. Speed, battery life, and size (as a result of using smaller batteries) may be addressed nicely with the newer CPUs. Cost is a big question mark.

I also think that they pulled the plug on the free development tools too early. I knew it would come, but I think they did it too soon. Of course, the conspiracy theorist in me believes that if they did create a bug-fix version of eVB, who would buy VB.NET? I think they knew that.

Scott

[Jason Dunn]

The little 'What if...' article is the first one I have seen in more than a year of reading CE news that addresses what is missing in the product and the business plan.


I don't think you've been reading closely enough - we know what's broken in the Pocket PC and we ask Microsoft to fix stuff all the time. :-)

[Timothy Rapson]

A terrific and fascinating thread. I see a lot here that is right on. Where is Stinger? Many I miss what Symbian could be? Java?

What PPC needs most to compete and really take over from Palm is

1. Smaller form factor. might get this with a slotless Toshiba..but what about.....
2. Better battery life which we might get on that Toshiba with a new X-Scale processor running at 133-200 MZ but we'd need........
3. Competitive prices.....and I don't have a clue why a Genio has to sell for $120 more (at the very least) than a Sony N760C. I just do not get it. It shouldn't cost #120 to add 48 meg of Ram, a speaker and a microphone. But, then I dont' run Toshiba or Sony.

It's going to be VERY interesting year.

[Jason Dunn]

Competitive prices.....and I don't have a clue why a Genio has to sell for $120 more (at the very least) than a Sony N760C. I just do not get it. It shouldn't cost #120 to add 48 meg of Ram, a speaker and a microphone. But, then I dont' run Toshiba or Sony.


I agree that we need better prices, but your comparison isn't a fair one. The Toshiba has, in addition to the RAM, speaker, and microphone, a faster and more expensive processor (the price on 33 mhz Dragonball processors are as low as they can go I'm sure!), bigger Flash ROM, bigger screen, and completely different "guts".

I'm looking FORWARD to Palm devices getting all that pricey gear inside them, so we'll see a price war among all PDA's...

[James]

I don't think you've been reading closely enough - we know what's broken in the Pocket PC and we ask Microsoft to fix stuff all the time. :-)


And when they don't, we bash them soundly.

[Perry]

Just wrote a nice lengthy post. Timed out.

Oh well.

Jason, you would have loved it ;^)

[Jason Dunn]

Just wrote a nice lengthy post. Timed out.


Really? :oops: Damn...I thought this server was burly enough to prevent that from happening. Very sorry!

[Foo Fighter]

Just wrote a nice lengthy post. Timed out.

Oh well.

Jason, you would have loved it ;^)


Hate to say this now, but you could have hit the back button on your browser and made a second attempt. Or at least copy all the text. :wink:

[HR]

In my opinion:
1. MS should give up on stinger. It's not going to happen.
2. MS should license the OS to more manufacturers so the impact and visibility will increase. Unfortunately, mainstream users know about Palm, but few have heard about PPC
3. MS should create a decent wireless PPC. This seems to be happening, but wwwwway to slowly
4. MS and its partners should create lower-cost and sleek looking PPC for consumers and accompany this with a huge marketing campaign.

[HR]

Since I got my 9210 (and before you say it, I know it's got limited internal RAM, but at least someone is trying to release smartphones :lol: ), I've been able to

Type word document (with spell checker and thesaurus)
Work on spreadsheets
Make notes
Send and receive e-mail
Send and receive SMS
Send and receive FAXes
Browse the web
Browse WAP (though don't ask why I would want to :wink: )
Use a calendar with Month, Week, Day, Task list, Weekly time schedule, Year schedule and Anniversay views
The best contacts app I've ever seen
View Powerpoint presentations
Run JAVA applications
Play Games
Play RealVideo
Play RealAudio
Record ringtones
Make a telephone call :D

All with the included software. Then, with additional registered software I can;

Play more games
Manage archives
Run MIDLETs
Customize the GUI (though even better is on the way)
Plan projects
View PDF files ( :!: and the software was not at all expensive)
Send/receive picture messages via SMS
Send/receive ringtones via SMS
Edit ringtones as .rng
Edit WAV files with special effects and use them as ringtones
Run a VNC client
Manage databases

Ok, so it's not a PocketPC but please, you must be a very insecure person if you feel you have to blow out other people's candles just to make yours look brighter.

The new wireless PPCs are going to have all that and more. I do agree that communicator is simpler to use and has better phone integration, but I still prefer the power of of a PPC.

[Rob Alexander]

Foo has it right! Every PPC user should wish Palm and Symbian well as it's only their competition that gives MS and partners any real incentive to improve on PPCs (or smartphones). You do NOT want to live in a world where the PPC is the only viable PDA option. There's plenty of room in this growing market for several players.

I, for one, hope that Palm releases a great OS5 that competes head-on with the PPC in the high-end market. The better they do, the better off all PPC users are as MS & friends will have to give us more for less to compete. What will happen if Palm releases an inexpensive, fast, small, light multimedia device with gobs of RAM and great battery life? Why we'll end up with the same things, of course, in the following generation of PPCs. We should be so lucky! :wink:

[Ferdinand_Lovetree]

http://www.thefeature.com/index.jsp?url=article.jsp?pageid=14134

I found this article interesting; one quote says

"Without a doubt, EPOC is an ideal OS for mobile handhelds. Even in its earliest incarnations, the software was designed with wireless functionality in mind, such as low-power consumption, and ARM-chip operability. Symbian's OS is a flexible, powerful platform designed to ride the transition from 2G to 2.5G and 3G and beyond, as well as provide a framework that supports everything from Java to WAP/XHTML. That's one reason the device makers didn't simply roll over and begin licensing Windows CE just to avoid sparring with Microsoft.

I'd like to emphasise (in case anybody thinks I'm looking for anotyher fight) the fact that it says that EPOC is an ideal OS for mobile handhelds, not the only OS for mobile handhelds.

I must say that reading these last few posts has blown a fresh breeze throughout PocketPCThoughts (IMO) and has been one of the most open and friendly discussions I've ever read on PocketPCThoughts, and when I consider who started the topic, I'm having to pick myself up off the floor after falling off my chair :wink:

[Foo Fighter]

...and when I consider who started the topic, I'm having to pick myself up off the floor after falling off my chair :wink:


LOL! That's exactly what I was thinking! Has Andy lost his passion for PocketPC? Is his resolve weakening? Come on Andy, the world wants to know...what's happening inside your head right now?

[HR]

http://www.thefeature.com/index.jsp?url=article.jsp?pageid=14134

I found this article interesting; one quote says

"Without a doubt, EPOC is an ideal OS for mobile handhelds. Even in its earliest incarnations, the software was designed with wireless functionality in mind, such as low-power consumption, and ARM-chip operability. Symbian's OS is a flexible, powerful platform designed to ride the transition from 2G to 2.5G and 3G and beyond, as well as provide a framework that supports everything from Java to WAP/XHTML. That's one reason the device makers didn't simply roll over and begin licensing Windows CE just to avoid sparring with Microsoft.
So you quoted an opinion from a mobile phone site. What's your point? What have you proven about Symbian? Nothing. I find it ridiculous to suggest that the people that created Epoc so many years ago were aware of 2.5G and 3G and ARM! Yes, they created low-power, lean and simple OS, but only because it makes good sense regardless.

In case you haven't noticed, phone companies have the same motives that MS has: keep the business to themselves and get rich. That's about it. In fact, the business model of phone companies is to offer added value, proprietary services on top of voice and to charge you extra. You want SMS? no problem pay by the word. You want email? no problem pay extra for each byte. You are locked in and cannot pick your service in a free market. This is how they make their money. If they just gave you a pipe to the Internet and let the consumer choose SMS, email provider, etc., they will be relegated to charging for connection time – not much money to be made there. MS offers the open model of ISP and this is why they gang on MS. It's not even about the hardware and the OS, since those things are sold at a discount, or given away, as part of a connection package. If I were you, I would look equally suspiciously at the phone companies and not buy into propaganda such as "we are against evil MS who wants to take over". They are both equally evil or good, take your pick.

[Ferdinand_Lovetree]

:oops: Oops!

Terribly sorry and didn't mean to offend you old chap (and I must, to my own shame, admit that I didn't realise at the time that I was quoting from a site owned by a phone company - doh! - though I am intelligent enough to keep the salt and throw out the sand; something I find equally useful when visiting any company web site). Any nerves that I may have touched were totally unintentional. Take a deep breath and calm down while I explain that I wasn't suggesting that Microsoft are evil and all others are saints. Read my previous posts and see that I understand that any other company in Microsoft's position would do the same! Indeed, I glad to be able to say that I appreciate technology in all its forms, whether Microsoft or not, whether I have to activate it after sneezing or not. Honest. Look around you and see the variety in this world.

If something is good, I don't care who built it. Call me simple, but when I appreciate something, it's because of what it is, not because of the badge on the front (Microsoft, Symbian, Palm, who cares?).

"find it ridiculous to suggest that the people that created Epoc so many years ago were aware of 2.5G and 3G and ARM!" - I find it equally so regarding Microsoft.

As for the locking in issue, well, I really won't talk about Microsoft's practices since; a) It has been discussed elsewhere and b) you already are a bit upset and I don't want you to die of shock (just look at Nevil Chaimberlain to see what signing a contract with a dictatorship can do :? )

Anyway, have an Ovaltine and reeelaaax........ Shhhhhhh...... relax.

1... 2... 3... 4... 5... 6... 7... 8... 9... 10... There, don't you feel better now? :D

[RLBogue]

In my opinion:
1. MS should give up on stinger. It's not going to happen.


While at some level I must admit that Microsoft's challenges with Stinger/Smart Phones is disheartening, you also have to realize that Microsoft has a lot of money in the bank. I have always believed that he with the biggest pockets often (but not always) wins.

MS Smart Phones will be very cool and will solve a lot of problems that people have with phones, PDAs, and technology in general. However, I don't think that the MS people have kissed enough people's rear yet to make the sale.

I think that if this continues they might try the tact of offering exclusivity for a period of time to a manufacturer -- and probably a cellular network. That has been known to work (ala DirectTV and RCA). I personallly want them on the market in the US ... I'd consider switching carriers to get it.

Rob

[marlof]

In my opinion:
1. MS should give up on stinger. It's not going to happen.
2. MS should license the OS to more manufacturers so the impact and visibility will increase. Unfortunately, mainstream users know about Palm, but few have heard about PPC
3. MS should create a decent wireless PPC. This seems to be happening, but wwwwway to slowly
4. MS and its partners should create lower-cost and sleek looking PPC for consumers and accompany this with a huge marketing campaign.


1. I don't agree there. Stinger ( ouch, Smartphone 2002) is the ideal Pocket PC companion IMO. Although I'm a big Pocket PC fan, even I sometimes don't want to carry my Pocket PC with me. Having a device as small as a Smartphone 2002 with the most basic feature set of the Pocket PC is something I really look forward to. And when I saw the UI, I was amazed at how good they worked around the limitations in such a phone.

2. IMO Fujitsu Siemens and Toshiba/Audiovox proof that this is something that is worked on.

3. This is happening! The 02 looked simply great, and it - or comparable devices- will come to your theatre soon enough!

4. I don't know if that would be the way to go. I think Microsoft is less worried about the feel of the general public on the Pocket PC, but more worried about the feel of the coporate setting. The only way a really low end device could enter the market seems to be throwing out whatever makes the PPC special ( out-of-the-box connectivity, corporate functionality ). I don't know if a "HP Jornada M125" would sell all that great. The greyscale iPAQ 3100 series wasn't a big success either, although it was pretty cheap.

But I think that next to the corporate devices a device that would target the youth market ( PIM, music playing, image viewing, gaming and IM ) would be a great idea.

[Daniel]

I think that Palm and Microsoft really target different markets. I think for the kind of person that I am (somewhat obsessed with toys!) Palm was never an option. The thing with Microsoft is that they don't really care about market segments, they plaster everything with a inexpensive product that has enough to tempt people in and then you're stuck. They do this with everything, before you realize it, you find it hard to live without their software (eg. Windows, XML parser, SQL Server). The little MS extensions that are so attractive are thing things that keep you coming back.
Here in Australia the iPAQ H3870 is about AU$1500 the Palm m505 is about AU$1000. Quite frankly for AU$500 it's worth it! The extras that you get in PPC (Big Screen, RAM, Bluetooth, Networking, etc) quite easily, in my opinion, account for the extra $.
I would really like to get Familiar (Linux distro for iPAQ) onto my H3660 with QPIE (same as Sharp PPC interface) but the problem I have with that is that it doesn't sync properly yet. I'll just have to wait a while for this to happen.
Palm need to move ahead and stay in business so that MS stays on their toes. Sony is doing a good job of making Palm devices it's a shame that Palm isn't.
I would love to see some time in the future where we have the choice to install whatever OS we like. PPC, Linux, Palm whatever. Everything runs on ARM now (pretty much) so it is possible. I bought the hardware with an OS on it but I would like the option to change my OS to what was best for me not the marketing department of some company that writes the software. That would be very cool.

Daniel

[davidwb]

Frankly I don't want MS feeling like an underdog - that's what brings out the worst in the corporation. I want the company to feel humbled, yes. I want the mobility team to feel that it needs to strive toward improvement and innovation, yes. But when MS feels like the underdog that's when it begins throwing out FUD and feature-itis takes the place of improvement.

I'm a longtime Palm user and a recent (and unwilling) convert to the PocketPC. I can sum up my feelings quite simply. There is nothing I'm doing (or want to do) with my iPAQ that I couldn't do with my Palm. There is much that I can do easier. There is much that was easier when I used the Palm. My eyes much appreciate the iPAQ display. None of it is worth the horrible battery life.

In my opinion refinement is just as important as innovation and perhaps more. Over the years I've seen MS slop features into its OS and applications with little thought toward anything but their bottom line. Features get added to force us to upgrade. They get added to make the competitor's product look bad by comparison. They get added to lock out a competitor. They get added to lock in the user. But all too often features aren't added for our benefit or need. So now Office won't fit on one CD and needs 128 meg to run but I'm not using close to 20% of those features that have been foisted on me. Thanks Bill.

I see the PocketPC going this same route. I can play mp3 files, show pictures, watch movies....great. But do we really want to do these things? All these features demand better speakers, better displays, more memory and the end result is poorer battery life. Is this a trade off we willingly make or one we put up with?

My iPAQ is my contact manager, task manager, and note taker. In short, where I once carried around a 2 pound messy daytimer I now carry the iPAQ. I have several important databases on it and I often begin reports and memos in PocketWork before I return to the office. Yes, I play games sometimes and read books. I'd probably go wireless were it available in my area but I suspect after the novelty wore off I'd cancel it. Am I the exception to the rule or the norm? If I'm the norm then instead of innovating the OS Microsoft should refine it.

As for the idea of a PocketPC phone, am I the only person in the world who thinks this idea is akin to making bicycles for dogs? On the one hand the idea seems to make sense - I already have my contact information in my iPAQ why carry 2 devices when one will suffice. I reduce the number of devices and accessories I have to carry. OTOH I now have a device that is inconveniently shaped as a phone, as a handheld or both. And my battery life is even worse.

Form factor and weight are important issues. The naked iPAQ is just barely small and light enough to fit in a shirt pocket. Of course Compaq didn't see fit to provide a fliptop. Before the week was out one of my colleagues shattered the display. Great thinking Compaq. More than half of is in the office can no longer keep the stylus in the iPAQ. Another great design. I can't wait to see how long the navigator button lasts. My last Palm is 18 months old and going strong - not to mention embarrassing Compaq with its battery life.

I'll sum this up just as I did for my boss yesterday. After a month of using my iPAQ I love it. And I hate it. For all its benefits over the Palm I've used for the last three years the lousy battery life infuriates me.

And can somebody tell me what braindead MS employee let PocketPC 2000 get out the door without the ability to create a shortcut?

[Daniel]

David, sounds like you got the raw end of the stick on that one, I wouldn't want to be forced to use a Palm either! :)
I use my iPAQ for much more than just a PIM. I do suggest to my friends that if that is all that they are looking for then a Palm is a better option, my wife has a Handspring for that very reason.
I on the other hand I play music off my iPAQ quite frequently. I have a microdrive and the PC Card expansion pack, this has an extra battery so it lasts me quite a while. I normally listen to music at work when the iPAQ is in it's cradle so I don't need to worry about it. I also sync my iPAQ over the network in my office because of the convenience factor. I have a Bluetooth+CFII expansion pack that I use with a T39 to go mobile, if it wasn't so expensive (Australia, monopoly, what can I say) I would probably use it to run ICQ & MSN permanently.
Most notably, I do more that one thing at a time, this is important, until PalmOS 6, this is not really an option for Palm devices.

Basically there are reasons to put up with the crappy os (and equally crappy upgrades), crappy battery life and annoying Microsoft knows all factor but just not for everyone.

Daniel

[ollie]

I've been following this thread with interest. Comparisons are odious. But ... Palm does what it does and it does it well. Microsoft has come up with a more innovative OS which does have its bugs, but has some distinct advantages. I have used EPOC machines in the past (still do, the MC218 has a great keyboard for taking notes) and it used to be said that Psion was the most innovative PDA maker at the time. We know what happened to them.

True, Microsoft need to get their act together. They need to fix their OS and proceed simultaneously with devising ways of improving our mobile "experience". And that's where us users can still be of help!

[JohnnyFlash]

I have used EPOC machines in the past (still do, the MC218 has a great keyboard for taking notes) and it used to be said that Psion was the most innovative PDA maker at the time. We know what happened to them.


Sad but true. Though I'd say that Psion's constipation of innovation came later in the day when they steadfastly refused to develop expand on what they had. Even the Series 5, by today's standards, is an awesome machine but because people want pretty colours and MP3, they don't give it a second glance.

Coupled with this, and history shows this to be the case, they had pants marketing. How many have suffered from that? Commodore and Amiga spring to mind. They had a machine that was doing in the 80's and 90's what PCs have only recently started to do with NT (pre-emptive multu-tasking). Microsoft's advantage (and, fair play, power to their elbow for this), is that they have enough wellie to market their stuff. I can't remember when I saw a Palm ad last but Microsoft's patronising "Software Matters" is everywhere.

Look at politics. Once a government does something good, everybody gets to know about it. They wouldn't bother doing that unless it got them valuable votes.

People have a lot to learn from Microsoft in terms of marketing and (to a lesser extent), innovation.

[Daniel]

Sad but true. Though I'd say that Psion's constipation of innovation came later in the day when they steadfastly refused to develop expand on what they had. Even the Series 5, by today's standards, is an awesome machine but because people want pretty colours and MP3, they don't give it a second glance.

Those design concepts that they released shortly before the end were excellent! I loved the device with multiple ultra-thin screens. Now there was something that was really worth looking forward to!

daniel

[ajg23]

Speaking of MS's PocketPC innovation...

Does anyone know of a way to communicate with someone that will actually result in changes to the PocketPC OS (2002 upgrades or next OS changes)? I don't want to waste my time and keystrokes sending msgs to the main pocketpc email address...

As an example of something that's just jaw-droppingly in need of improvement--and that could have been improved *easily* in PPC 2002--is the handling of *recording*:
-Hardware button controls are for playback are unbelievably inadequate: with 4 directions on the pad, all we are ever expected to want to do is *restart* the recording? We should be able to pause, rewind, and FF *within* a recording.
-If you make multiple recordings (using the PPC to take notes by holding down REC button throughout the day), if you were not in "Notes" view mode, then when you *do* swith to "Notes" view mode to listen to your recordings, the file names are generated at that time in *reverse order* of when they were created. So part of your recordings are shuffled if sorted by date
-the recording names have no leading zeroes, also leading to list mix-up if you have many recordings (thank heavens they at least added a "sort by date" option)
-you can't specify into what category recordings will be stored by default...so you always have to think about in what category "Notes" is currently because that's where your recordings will go
-because you can’t control where recordings go and what they’re named, for category "Important" (for example), if you switch to it and want to find a note really quickly, the middle of your notes list is interrupted by "Important1," [...], "Important99"! Aggravating! So you can't leave the "Important" category selected in Notes or else that (important!) category becomes unnavigable! [Should I also mention that the category *list* is unnavigable if you have programs stored on the storage card b/c all those program directories show up in the category list which the Pocket PC tries to control with an iron fist to make super simple?! This plus the previous problem makes Notes almost unusable for me!]


Those are just the *easy* things they could have fixed leading to great improvements in functionality. Other things involving recording include:
-you can't play all files within a category continuously (loss of function from WinCE 2.x)
-you can't add to or merge recordings
-you can't play recordings from your desktop without dragging files to your local HD (or, for ex, even view a simple text file without doing this!)
-you can't specify whether hold-REC-button may *globally* mean "create new recording" (if within many applications, it creates a recording within the current document--nice, but if your PPC were turned off and that document were open, then trying to use your PPC as a "recorder" would unexpectedly put your recording in that document rather than in the list where you expect it to go)

[HR]

:oops: Oops!

Terribly sorry and didn't mean to offend you old chap (and I must, to my own shame, admit that I didn't realise at the time that I was quoting from a site owned by a phone company - doh! - though I am intelligent enough to keep the salt and throw out the sand; something I find equally useful when visiting any company web site). Any nerves that I may have touched were totally unintentional. Take a deep breath and calm down while I explain that I wasn't suggesting that Microsoft are evil and all others are saints. Read my previous posts and see that I understand that any other company in Microsoft's position would do the same! Indeed, I glad to be able to say that I appreciate technology in all its forms, whether Microsoft or not, whether I have to activate it after sneezing or not. Honest. Look around you and see the variety in this world.

If something is good, I don't care who built it. Call me simple, but when I appreciate something, it's because of what it is, not because of the badge on the front (Microsoft, Symbian, Palm, who cares?).

"find it ridiculous to suggest that the people that created Epoc so many years ago were aware of 2.5G and 3G and ARM!" - I find it equally so regarding Microsoft.

As for the locking in issue, well, I really won't talk about Microsoft's practices since; a) It has been discussed elsewhere and b) you already are a bit upset and I don't want you to die of shock (just look at Nevil Chaimberlain to see what signing a contract with a dictatorship can do :? )

Anyway, have an Ovaltine and reeelaaax........ Shhhhhhh...... relax.

1... 2... 3... 4... 5... 6... 7... 8... 9... 10... There, don't you feel better now? :D

I am very relaxed, but I do like to point out glaring mistakes. And I don't really get upset from things like that. The world has far more serious problems.

We don't think that differently, Every company (fill in the blank: MS, Nokia, Sun…) have their own agendas and goals. And I don't see it in terms of negative or positive. This is business. So you are wrong, if you think that somehow I see MS in a positive light and Nokia negatively, for example. Sure, MS knows how to lock you in and annoy you too (don't get me started…)

In fact I am kind of indifferent to specific technology/platform/OS etc. Like you, I just want something that works for me and is useful.

Your very relaxed guy who hasn't found a really great PDA yet.

[HR]

In my opinion:
1. MS should give up on stinger. It's not going to happen.
2. MS should license the OS to more manufacturers so the impact and visibility will increase. Unfortunately, mainstream users know about Palm, but few have heard about PPC
3. MS should create a decent wireless PPC. This seems to be happening, but wwwwway to slowly
4. MS and its partners should create lower-cost and sleek looking PPC for consumers and accompany this with a huge marketing campaign.


1. I don't agree there. Stinger ( ouch, Smartphone 2002) is the ideal Pocket PC companion IMO. Although I'm a big Pocket PC fan, even I sometimes don't want to carry my Pocket PC with me. Having a device as small as a Smartphone 2002 with the most basic feature set of the Pocket PC is something I really look forward to. And when I saw the UI, I was amazed at how good they worked around the limitations in such a phone.

2. IMO Fujitsu Siemens and Toshiba/Audiovox proof that this is something that is worked on.

3. This is happening! The 02 looked simply great, and it - or comparable devices- will come to your theatre soon enough!

4. I don't know if that would be the way to go. I think Microsoft is less worried about the feel of the general public on the Pocket PC, but more worried about the feel of the coporate setting. The only way a really low end device could enter the market seems to be throwing out whatever makes the PPC special ( out-of-the-box connectivity, corporate functionality ). I don't know if a "HP Jornada M125" would sell all that great. The greyscale iPAQ 3100 series wasn't a big success either, although it was pretty cheap.

But I think that next to the corporate devices a device that would target the youth market ( PIM, music playing, image viewing, gaming and IM ) would be a great idea.

1. Smartphone may be good, but it looks that the phone companies' resistance is too strong. I am trying to save the time and money ;-)
2. Not enough. MS should get a LOT more licensees. Right now they are way too esoteric. They must increase awareness through the making of PPCs ubiquitous. Would Coke or Pepsi have a chance to compete if you didn't see them in every corner?
3. As I said, too slow. Knowing MS, maybe the second version will be more or less bug free.
4. Knowing MS, they do probably want to take over the entire market. The consumer market is a huge part of it. Given this assumption is true, they must create a lower-cost very slick and sexy looking devices that will address babyboomers, Gen-X and Gen-Y. Your examples are exactly the antithesis of this. In addition, as I alluded to, it doesn't end with hardware. Software matters. Strip VPN, Excel, word, etc. and put basic functionality like PIM etc. Now add some consumer software such as MP3 Video, digital photos, killer games, etc. Sell it for an attractive price. Look at Sony clie for a textbook business case.

[RLBogue]

1. Smartphone may be good, but it looks that the phone companies' resistance is too strong. I am trying to save the time and money ;-)


HR - I'm sure MS appreciates your concern for their money, however, with several billion in the bank... I'm still betting that eventually Microsoft will overcome the cellular manufacturer and cellular provider resistance. As I said in a previous post, if Microsoft becomes willing to forgo immediate market domination they *CAN* get someone to bite on an exclusive arrangement for a period of time. The market is there. People want the Smart Phone. It's a matter of time...

Rob

[James]

HR - I'm sure MS appreciates your concern for their money, however, with several billion in the bank... I'm still betting that eventually Microsoft

Worst case, it goes the way that Microsoft Bob, the Microsoft Cordless Phone (man I miss my phone!), and a slew of other products have gone: Sacrificed in the name of research. But, I think Stinger (smartphone just doesn't sound cool enough) may be a winner - of course, first we'll need the anti-trust lawsuits to force the device manufacturers to stop blocking competition, etc. etc. I hate lawyers.

[HR]

Worst case, it goes the way that Microsoft Bob, the Microsoft Cordless Phone (man I miss my phone

MS cordless phone??? You are not serious. I didn't know such thing was even attmpted. Was it Windows-enabled or something? Learn new things every day...

[spg]

Worst case, it goes the way that Microsoft Bob, the Microsoft Cordless Phone (man I miss my phone!), and a slew of other products have gone: Sacrificed in the name of research. But, I think Stinger (smartphone just doesn't sound cool enough) may be a winner - of course, first we'll need the anti-trust lawsuits to force the device manufacturers to stop blocking competition, etc. etc. I hate lawyers.


Quite true, I really think the Stinger can go a long way in the current market. Microsoft just needs to keep pushing it, and I think it will eventually get past all the legal stuff.

[Jason Dunn]

MS cordless phone??? You are not serious. I didn't know such thing was even attmpted. Was it Windows-enabled or something? Learn new things every day...


It was a regular 900 mhz phone that tied into the desktop computer - it was actually one of the most impressive pieces of Microsoft technology that I had ever used. I REALLY liked it, but they never released Win2K drivers for it, and it just died...

[Daniel]

MS cordless phone??? You are not serious. I didn't know such thing was even attmpted. Was it Windows-enabled or something? Learn new things every day...
It was a regular 900 mhz phone that tied into the desktop computer - it was actually one of the most impressive pieces of Microsoft technology that I had ever used. I REALLY liked it, but they never released Win2K drivers for it, and it just died...

A friend of mine got one of these, it was really quite good. It did all sorts of cool stuff with your contacts when people called and whatnot. Great idea, but like Jason said, MS kind of gave up on it.

daniel

[James]

MS cordless phone??? You are not serious. I didn't know such thing was even attmpted. Was it Windows-enabled or something? Learn new things every day...


Dead serious (the dead being for the fact that it's now a dead product). It was one of the few phones at the time that had a charger separated from the base, had an excellent bit of software to handle answering machine stuff, integrated to your Windows Address book, was voice controlled, and could do things like page you with messages, email the voice mail to you,..it was just plain cool. It had a few bugs, but the product team was really working hard to fix them when it was cancelled. They'd even swapped out my phone for one with special debug bits at one point to figure out why the caller ID wasn't being properly forwarded after coming in via the voice side of an ISDN line.

[spg]

MS cordless phone??? You are not serious. I didn't know such thing was even attmpted. Was it Windows-enabled or something? Learn new things every day...


Dead serious (the dead being for the fact that it's now a dead product). It was one of the few phones at the time that had a charger separated from the base, had an excellent bit of software to handle answering machine stuff, integrated to your Windows Address book, was voice controlled, and could do things like page you with messages, email the voice mail to you,..it was just plain cool. It had a few bugs, but the product team was really working hard to fix them when it was cancelled. They'd even swapped out my phone for one with special debug bits at one point to figure out why the caller ID wasn't being properly forwarded after coming in via the voice side of an ISDN line.


Huh, how absolutely wierd. Never even heard of it before!

[James]

Huh, how absolutely wierd. Never even heard of it before!


Actually not surprising - it didn't have a launch, just showed up on the shelves. I think it was available for barely a year before it was killed. They went so far as to yank unsold product from the shelves...

[spg]

Huh, how absolutely wierd. Never even heard of it before!


Actually not surprising - it didn't have a launch, just showed up on the shelves. I think it was available for barely a year before it was killed. They went so far as to yank unsold product from the shelves...


Hmm, ok... I guess back then I was kinda out of it! :( :)

[HR]

Thanks for the info. I thought it was a joke. I was seeing Bill Gates demoing the thing in one of the MS events and talking about the future of the cordless phone. Like what's next, MS toaster oven?

You do get to learn about many different things at this forum.

[spg]

Thanks for the info. I thought it was a joke. I was seeing Bill Gates demoing the thing in one of the MS events and talking about the future of the cordless phone. Like what's next, MS toaster oven?


Bluetooth or 802.11b enabled toaster oven, with on site communication with the robtic plate dispatcher :lol:. Oh and it sends you an alarm on all your computers and TVs to tell you that your toast is ready.

[Dave Conger]

Bluetooth or 802.11b enabled toaster oven, with on site communication with the robtic plate dispatcher :lol:. Oh and it sends you an alarm on all your computers and TVs to tell you that your toast is ready.


Sun and Java still have dibs on the toster with an embedded OS....so I don't know if MS really wants to touch that one!

[spg]

Bluetooth or 802.11b enabled toaster oven, with on site communication with the robtic plate dispatcher :lol:. Oh and it sends you an alarm on all your computers and TVs to tell you that your toast is ready.


Sun and Java still have dibs on the toster with an embedded OS....so I don't know if MS really wants to touch that one!


Rats, I got my hopes up that I could blame that burned toast on the computer. :lol:

[Dave Conger]

Rats, I got my hopes up that I could blame that burned toast on the computer. :lol:


Well maybe one day you will be able to tell your toaster that it burned your bread, but i wouldn't hold me breath man.

[James]

Sun and Java still have dibs on the toster with an embedded OS....so I don't know if MS really wants to touch that one!


Rats, I got my hopes up that I could blame that burned toast on the computer. :lol:


Just blame Sun instead - it's much more fun. Better yet, buy the toaster from Sun that runs Oracle 9i to keep track of your settings! Talk about burned toast!

[spg]

Sun and Java still have dibs on the toster with an embedded OS....so I don't know if MS really wants to touch that one!

Rats, I got my hopes up that I could blame that burned toast on the computer. :lol:

Just blame Sun instead - it's much more fun. Better yet, buy the toaster from Sun that runs Oracle 9i to keep track of your settings! Talk about burned toast!

&lt;sarcasm>
Sounds good, and once it is burned I'll use my oracle server to scratch the burnt areas off. And we must not forget about those hackers who would love to erase your toast every morning :wink:.
&lt;/sarcasm>

[James]

&lt;sarcasm>
Sounds good, and once it is burned I'll use my oracle server to scratch the burnt areas off. And we must not forget about those hackers who would love to erase your toast every morning :wink:.
&lt;/sarcasm>


So true - I can't wait for the lawsuits to hit. It would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall as they were developing that campaign...ya gotta wonder if they talked to the developers at all...

[Dave Conger]

Just blame Sun instead - it's much more fun. Better yet, buy the toaster from Sun that runs Oracle 9i to keep track of your settings! Talk about burned toast!


Just makes sure my toaster supports 128-bit encryption...I really don't people to know when I like my toast nor how dark. Privacy is important...especially in my toaster.

[James]

Just makes sure my toaster supports 128-bit encryption...I really don't people to know when I like my toast nor how dark. Privacy is important...especially in my toaster.


Not to mention the microwave, refrigerator, oven, blender, mixer, light switches...definitely don't want Oracle running all that!

[Dave Conger]

Not to mention the microwave, refrigerator, oven, blender, mixer, light switches...definitely don't want Oracle running all that!


I think I would go with Linux....especially on my light switches.

I wonder if there will be phone security issues with the operating system? I know they will try to fix them up, but I would think there could be some pretty strange bugs and security holes.

[spg]

Not to mention the microwave, refrigerator, oven, blender, mixer, light switches...definitely don't want Oracle running all that!


I think I would go with Linux....especially on my light switches.

I wonder if there will be phone security issues with the operating system? I know they will try to fix them up, but I would think there could be some pretty strange bugs and security holes.


Yeah you will have to be careful and make sure it IS a power outage, not a hacker wanting to disable your lighting system :wink:.

[James]

I think I would go with Linux....especially on my light switches.

I wonder if there will be phone security issues with the operating system? I know they will try to fix them up, but I would think there could be some pretty strange bugs and security holes.


hmm...maybe the Gibraltar release, but I'd prefer to see an embedded OS to run the household stuff. There's still far too much change going on with the Linux kernels to make it really viable for the consumer market.

[Dave Conger]

hmm...maybe the Gibraltar release, but I'd prefer to see an embedded OS to run the household stuff. There's still far too much change going on with the Linux kernels to make it really viable for the consumer market.


Why even worry about Linux. How about just some wireless switches I can control with my PDA. Though, people driving by my house with something like MiniStumbler might have a little bit to much fun...

[spg]

Why even worry about Linux. How about just some wireless switches I can control with my PDA. Though, people driving by my house with something like MiniStumbler might have a little bit to much fun...


:lol: Where do you live? Let me know when you put those in. :twisted:



Just kidding! :wink:

[James]

Why even worry about Linux. How about just some wireless switches I can control with my PDA. Though, people driving by my house with something like MiniStumbler might have a little bit to much fun...


That's easy enough - some X10 stuff with the infrared controller and one of the IR remote programs.

[Dave Conger]

That's easy enough - some X10 stuff with the infrared controller and one of the IR remote programs.


Ooooo, idea (even more off topic). X10 that interfaces with the iPAQ. Stick it wherever and watch the stream on your iPAQ.

In the car, at the front door, in your back yard, in the bedroom....

[James]

Ooooo, idea (even more off topic).

Why on earth would we want to stay on topic? It's much more fun this way ;)


X10 that interfaces with the iPAQ. Stick it wherever and watch the stream on your iPAQ.

In the car, at the front door, in your back yard, in the bedroom....


X10 doesn't do video (and even if it did, it wouldn't be that pretty), just fairly simply device signaling...

[Dave Conger]

X10 doesn't do video (and even if it did, it wouldn't be that pretty), just fairly simply device signaling...


The X10?
http://www.x10.com/

[Rafe]

http://www.thefeature.com/index.jsp?url=article.jsp?pageid=14134

I found this article interesting; one quote says

"Without a doubt, EPOC is an ideal OS for mobile handhelds. Even in its earliest incarnations, the software was designed with wireless functionality in mind, such as low-power consumption, and ARM-chip operability. Symbian's OS is a flexible, powerful platform designed to ride the transition from 2G to 2.5G and 3G and beyond, as well as provide a framework that supports everything from Java to WAP/XHTML. That's one reason the device makers didn't simply roll over and begin licensing Windows CE just to avoid sparring with Microsoft.
So you quoted an opinion from a mobile phone site. What's your point? What have you proven about Symbian? Nothing. I find it ridiculous to suggest that the people that created Epoc so many years ago were aware of 2.5G and 3G and ARM! Yes, they created low-power, lean and simple OS, but only because it makes good sense regardless.


Actually if you knew anything about the development history of EPOC you'd relaise that like all things there's two sides to this story.

EPOC had its roots in SIBO, and was first used on the Psion 5. EPOC 6 is actually a radically different OS (compare it as the differences between say Win 3.1 and Win NT). Basically the OS was written from the ground up to support mobile / wireless stuff. Symbian 7 has built on this.

[spg]

X10 does both video and home automation. The have the X10 automation stuff and the XCam video camera stuff. I have seen some remote control programs for PocketPC that integrate with your main X10 control PC. It allows you to control all sorts of things. There are some very cool things, check out http://www.smarthome.com.

I love off-topic posts :wink:!

[James]

X10 does both video and home automation. The have the X10 automation stuff and the XCam video camera stuff. I have seen some remote control programs for PocketPC that integrate with your main X10 control PC. It allows you to control all sorts of things. There are some very cool things, check out http://www.smarthome.com.

The company X10 Wireless Technology Inc. sells video and home automation solutions, however X10 is a protocol for device signaling power wires. The wireless video stuff sold by X10 WTI might receive signals across X10, but the video is sent broadcast usually to channel 16.


I love off-topic posts :wink:!


That's why we have an off-topic forum - so we'll never use it! :)

[spg]

X10 does both video and home automation. The have the X10 automation stuff and the XCam video camera stuff. I have seen some remote control programs for PocketPC that integrate with your main X10 control PC. It allows you to control all sorts of things. There are some very cool things, check out http://www.smarthome.com.

The company X10 Wireless Technology Inc. sells video and home automation solutions, however X10 is a protocol for device signaling power wires. The wireless video stuff sold by X10 WTI might receive signals across X10, but the video is sent broadcast usually to channel 16.


I love off-topic posts :wink:!


That's why we have an off-topic forum - so we'll never use it! :)


Yeah, you said that alot better then I did. You must be good with words. :) As for the off-topic fourm, have you noticed that since I posted that AOL topic in there no one has wanted to talk about AOL. Must be alergic to off-topic discussion in the off-topic fourm. :wink:

[James]

since I posted that AOL topic in there no one has wanted to talk about AOL. Must be alergic to off-topic discussion in the off-topic fourm. :wink:


Hello, No One. I'm James ;) :lol:

[Dave Conger]

since I posted that AOL topic in there no one has wanted to talk about AOL. Must be alergic to off-topic discussion in the off-topic fourm. :wink:


AOL is just one of those things that pops up. Something "connects" to it and it grows. I feel like we all love to hate AOL...kinda like Palm.

[spg]

since I posted that AOL topic in there no one has wanted to talk about AOL. Must be alergic to off-topic discussion in the off-topic fourm. :wink:


Hello, No One. I'm James ;) :lol:


lol :lol:

No One - "Nice to meet you James." :wink:

[argent]

Let me preface this comment by noting that I have two Visors, two Pocket PCs, a Palmsized PC, and a Newton. I'm not married to any technology.

I'm not sure Palm is doing the right thing going to the ARM CPU at this point. There's still a lot of headroom in the Dragonball CPU, with a new 66 MHz processor available, and there's a lot of software improvements they could make that would help immensely for real use.

Instead they have become excited by the almost-worthless "multimedia" features of the Pocket PC, and are neglecting its real strengths in networking and wireless support.

If the Pocket PC didn't exist, I don't think they'd have gone that direction so soon. I'd much rather have a Palm with a native expansion slot (like the Springboard slot) rather than a stripped-down PC or Camera slot (Compact Flash, Memory Stick, Secure Digital) and a Handera-style display than a Palm with a faster processor and bulkier (and slower) OS. Id rather have a complete TCP/IP stack than an MP3 player. My Visor Deluxe has a faster processor and more memory than early Sun workstations... in fact it's got almost as much RAM as some early workstations had in RAM and Disk together... so surely it can manage to do better than this "let's pretend my network card is a serial port" mess...

But instead, they got all excited by the iPaq and decided they have to copy Microsoft rather than doing what they do best...