ActiveSync really got me today

[Jason Dunn]

Sometimes the quirky design inherent to ActiveSync really gets to me. Case in point: a few days ago I did the HP Jornada EUU1 & firmware updates. I reinstalled everything on the Jornada, but somehow my clock wasn't in sync with my desktop PC - it was an hour out. I couldn't figure out why until I checked the clock settings - it was set on the Redmond time zone, -1 hours behind my local time. Evidently I forgot to change the time zone when doing the device walk through after the hard reset. This resulted in me arriving an hour early for an appointment - so much for the PIM function!<br /><br />What I don't understand is why ActiveSync can't take a Pocket PC that's been freshly reset and push down partnership information. Time zone, device name, the last backup, etc. I've named my Pocket PC "LittleShogun", so when I do a hard reset I need to first rename the Pocket PC from the control panel applet, move the synced files out of the sync folder, delete the partnership from the desktop, sync the Pocket PC, create a new partnership, and move the files back over. From what I've been told, you can drop a Palm in the cradle, tell it what profile to use, and BAM, you're done. <br /><br />There are certainly some lessons that Microsoft can learn from Palm, and this is one of them - ActiveSync is too inflexible, unstable, and difficult to use. Or is it just me?

[spinsane]

Making a backup of my Pocket PC is a difficult process. I like to change the colors (registry settings) and rearrange and delete shortcuts in the start-menu as well as folders I see no use for.

After a hard-reset, and restoring a backup -- everthing is back. None of my changes was saved in the backup. That's frustrating.

[dma1965]

Yup ! Palm definitely has ActiveSync by the short and hairies here! You can take a totally wiped out Palm and drop it in the cradle and with one push of a button you have an EXACT replica of the way it was at last sync, within about 10 minutes, and no user intervention needed at all! When it works, it does so very well. Palm definitely wins in the braindead simple category. It is definitely nearly idiot proof! But would I go back to it ? NEVER!!!

[Daniel]

Well, I have never been able to restore from a backup when I need to, ie. when my iPAQ has been hard reset (like battery going flat). I don't see much (some maybe) point in backing up if it's not going to work in the worst case scenario.
The post-hard-reset walk is very annoying, I would be totally stoked if my PPC would be restored by just dropping it in the cradle! That would totally rock!

Daniel

[James]

ActiveSync just plain sucks. Fortunately, it's nowhere near enough to make me hate my iPaq. Between the 2 computer limit (I have at least 4 that I need to keep sync'd), general inflexibility, significant pains in getting network sync to work, and the even more painful BlueTooth sync - they've got their work cut out for 'em...and I know I'm just scratching the surface :cry:

[ChrisW]

I just got a Jornada 567, coming over from a Palm. There are a number of things to get used to in the PocketPC world, and it seems like ActiveSync is one of the biggest.

I have no idea how to backup and restore my system; I'd love to find a FAQ posted about it somewhere :wink:. All the stuff in the first message about "deleting partnerships" went right over my head.

Another deficiency is that the conduits (or whatever they're called in PocketPC) are missing one option. IIRC, it doesn't give an option of "handheld always wins conflicts".

[ceramic_vase]

has microsoft ever gotten anything right?

as it stands now, i can't sync my ppc with my upgraded winxp install. how sad is that?

we all know that microsoft is the king of crashes, bugs, and insecurity. of course this would carry over into activesync. in the words of our insightful youth, like, duh!

and i'm not just using this opportunity to bash microsoft. there's plenty of those floating around. i'm just stating a fact, one that i'm reminded of every day when i try to sync with xp.

[ukexpat]

I'll second these emotions -- A/S works OK most of the time but when you need to do something out of the ordinary, forget it. As for backing up, I never use the a/s routine. I used the HP backup app and backup to a spare CF card. Works like a charm. :(

[mhowie]

Ditto ukexpat's comments. A/S is too slow (actually, quite a joke in the speed department) for backups. The HP Backup app is quick and painless and the only addition I would make to his thoughts is a quick "drag and drop" from the CF card to the hard drive provides a duplicate copy in case something happens to the CF card.

[Kemas]

It isn't very USB friendly and MS has admitted as much to me as has Compaq. It also greatly preferes to be the only item on the USB port; when there is more than one item it doesn't sync all too well.

I have had many computers over the past year, testing and what not, and it acts differently every time. For instance, right now on my notebook and desktop (both HP) the syncing requires me to boot down Active synce, unplug the USB cable and restart active sync. Then it will sync, usually.

They obviously see your Pocket PC has being a more independant device than one that requires a PC connection. Again, MS seems to think that all the world has high speed access and wireless access already and we are 5 to 10 years away from that beautiful dream.

Kemas

[Scott R]

I hate to pipe in on a "negative" article, and you may not interpret my comments as positively as I honestly intend them to be, but I just want to commend you, once again, Jason for going against the grain and not being afraid to criticize things about the PPC which need to be criticized. The platform won't get better if people ignore or brush off real issues which impact users, for fear that they mustn't dare paint the PPC in a negative light as compared to the Palm.

You and I certainly don't agree on a lot of the Palm vs PPC issues, but contrary to popular opinion I'm neither a Palm-zealot nor an Microsoft-hater. I think the platform has a lot of potential, but I'm disappointed by the lack of "real" coverage of real issues by too many web sites. You're honest coverage puts some of the supposedly "platform-agnostic" PDA sites to shame. And this from an MS MVP! Kudos!

Scott

[popealien]

Active Stynk Sucks!

Why oh' why cant it work like a palm - This is the one experience of moving from palm that is a real dissapointment. Not just a minor irk, but something we seem to have to deal with constantly. It seems the design concept of PPC as a separate PC was taken a little too far - I really liked the way palms are dealt with as a part of the PC, or a sattelite of the main desktop. Active Sync seems to be designed around the thought that maybe you might like to occasionally move info from the PDA to the PC.. oh sure, we can do that.. just unplug / replug your USB cable, try this registry tweak, blah blah. There! you've copied your phone book! isn't this great! If palm does anything fancy with OS5, and maintains the simplicity and solid design that they are know for PPC could have a problem. I would not reccomend the PPC to a non-technical person, based on activesync alone..

Sigh, my beautiful silver shiny ipaq hobbled by activesync, like a triathlete wearing concrete shoes.

[Russ Smith]

I'm sure I must be because every time I've done a hard-reset, logged on as a guest, and restored my last backup, my machine has returned to exactly the state it was when I made the backup. There are two issues with this: You need to know to log on as a guest and you need to have made a full backup, which takes a fair bit of time, even over USB. I do hope CE.NET won't require the "first-sync over USB or serial" so I can just use the WLAN all the time.

The last time I did the "guest-restore" thing was last year. I usually back up to CF and restore that because it's much faster (and it's still too slow by my thinking :( )

My biggest issue with ActiveSync is that it still has assumptions that your desktop is the place where most of the updates occur. What's up with that? You don't carry your desktop around. They've come a long way on that since Windows CE Services 1.0, but they still need to recognize that it's more likely that the appointments, notes, and other stuff will be more current on your PPC.

[[Cruzer]]

Well MS is sorta stepping up into this.. At least on the updated Activesync from the recent euu updates, you can overwrite your data from the ppc, that is if you use the new server feature. They should have done this for the desktop side first but I hope they learn from this mistake.

My thoughts.

RC

[pocketmon]

I'd like to add another active sync complaint. When it cant resolve its own file syncs! Too many times I get a "3 items not synchronized" message and active sync cant fix it on its own. At least if they indicated to me the problem then I can manually figure it out but instead they just leave you hanging. :roll:

While we're also comparing active sync to palms syncing, am I the only one who would really like the hardware folks to put an active sync button on the cradle so we can determine whether or not to sync manually? :twisted:

[Gerard]

Bah! Activestink is garbage. I've tried and re-tried three versions, and it just masses everything up. I've now given up on it except for the single function of installing software that is too stubborn to submit to alternate means... like unpacking CAB files and renaming components according to the 000 file's list... and renaming EXE installers to ZIP on the PPC and unpacking using Resco's Zipper...
But I've found that backups and restores are rather painless using SpriteSoftware's Pocket Backup. I use Phatware's dbExplorer for further insurance of database and registry backups, and do full root folder exports as well. Nice having a 6GB Accurite :) Then after restoring I just jump online and synchronise my clock using CityTime. All told, I'm up and running within 8 minutes of a hard reset, and even with the buggiest of beta tests I've never lost more than a few hours of data. Gotta keep fresh backups, and Pocket Backup makes those fast and painless.
I just hope someone figures out a way to directly extract 100% of PC-based install packages from within a PPC. I'll sell the bloody PC that week!

[Chairman Clench]

I have to agree with the general feeling that ActiveSync is not a good product. I hate to say it, but sometimes I think about going back to the Palm world with one of the new Sony Clie units. Things like ActiveSync being tempermental (at best), almost daily soft resets, the bugs, the bugs, the bugs (did I mention the bugs?), poor Compaq support, no close button, etc. Palm devices, while they can't touch the functionality of a PPC, just plan work.

I am a power user, and I felt as though I had outgrown my Palm so I went to a PPC. I still like all the added functionality, but there are way too many negatives associated with the PPC. I'm not jumping ship yet, but I won't say right now that my next PDA will be a PPC.

MS seems to only be concerned with corporate users nowadays with the PPC. Even the recently released SP-1 for PPC2K2 only addressed one consumer-related bug, the e-mail thing. Everything else was corporate-based despite the fact that there is a HUGE bug list for PPC2K2. MS just doesn't seem interested in supporting consumer PDA users.

Sony, on the other hand, seems to be really courting the consumer PDA market. Their products work, have very few bugs, and they support consumers well.

There are definately some lessons for MS and the PPC OEMs to learn from Sony and Palm. MS needs to stop adding features to PPC and make the ones it currently has work. It's time for them to address the bugs and FIX them.

[Jason Dunn]

the lack of "real" coverage of real issues by too many web sites. You're honest coverage puts some of the supposedly "platform-agnostic" PDA sites to shame. And this from an MS MVP! Kudos! - Scott


Thanks for the compliment, but it's not like this is the first time I've posted anything like this. I've publicly taken Microsoft to task over DRM issues, the close button, things they've broken in 2002, and many ActiveSync issues in the past. Most of my critics forget that. :roll:

You may find my coverage becoming more and more "real" over the next few months. Circumstances have changed drastically related to my involvement with Microsoft, and while I can't get into details, suffice it to say that I feel less cozy with them than before. :wink:

[jeff]

I've had pretty good luck with ActiveSync. The only real issues I've had were hardware related and solved with a USB controller card. But there are definitely some improvements which could be made.

- You really need more than two partnerships. I have a dual boot 2000/XP machine at home and that takes up both of my partnerships. What about my work machine? Or if I had a laptop? Two just isn't good enough.

- A partnership should be able to be created without a cradle. I understand security concerns, but why not just build a password system into the sync process for verification?

- A "Handheld always overwrites PC" option is very much needed. Sure, you're no longer synching in that case, but if I accidentally delete something on my PC it would be pretty helpful to be able to get it back from the PPC.

- We need more information when errors happen. What do you do when you get a message that says "3 Items Not Synchronized?" What items are they? There's no way to find out.

- There should be support for reordering of sync options. I have both AvantGo and Vindigo sync on every connection. But because Vindigo's servers suck, the sync process hangs on it about 50% of the time. Since AvantGo is listed below Vindigo, its sync process never starts. I'd like to stick Vindigo at the end, so when it fails it doesn't affect the rest of the sync process.

- The contacts app and sync process need to support subfolders. Most of the people in my company arrange their contacts by company name in subfolders. It's the only way that makes any sense. But if you do that, you can't sync them.

I really like it when Jason has problems with his Pocket PC. He always starts a discussion where we can all come and bitch. And usually someone from Microsoft is checking it out. So maybe some of our suggestions will be used.

Jeff

[Scott R]

Thanks for the compliment, but it's not like this is the first time I've posted anything like this. I've publicly taken Microsoft to task over DRM issues, the close button, things they've broken in 2002, and many ActiveSync issues in the past. Most of my critics forget that. :roll:
I hope you weren't directing that at me. As I mentioned in that MVP thread which was getting interesting before your server crash, I had complimented you in the past over your hard-hitting coverage.

You may find my coverage becoming more and more "real" over the next few months. Circumstances have changed drastically related to my involvement with Microsoft, and while I can't get into details, suffice it to say that I feel less cozy with them than before. :wink:

I'm sorry to hear that (in terms of whatever benefits that may mean you've lost out on), though I hope you don't mind me saying that that may be great news from the perspective of readers of your site.

Scott

[ChrisW]

Russ, could you explain this "login as guest" thing in more detail? :?: I'd really like to know how to make this work. Someone, please write an ActiveSync FAQ for us newbies!

[Scott R]

Getting back on topic...

Here are a couple of the things I didn't like (or found odd) during my experience of using a PPC as my main device for some time. I mention these because I honestly want to know if I was "missing something". Please point out whatever I might have been doing wrong, whatever wrong assumptions I was making, or why it worked the way it did:
1) I thought the advantage of ActiveSync over HotSync was that you could make a change and it would "instantly" sync it up. I seem to recall updating my calendar or contacts (I think on my desktop Outlook) while my handheld was in the cradle. Yet, after waiting several minutes, this information still had not transferred over.
2) I really disliked how most software that I installed required running a setup package on my desktop which ran as if it was installing something on my desktop, even though it had no desktop component. In fact, it often did create folders and registry entries (i.e. - app was listed in the "Add/Remove Programs" list on the desktop). On the Palm, most apps seemed to have one .PRC file. You double-click it and it puts it in the queue to be installed during the next HotSync. No registry changes made on the desktop computer.

Scott

[Jason Dunn]

I thought the advantage of ActiveSync over HotSync was that you could make a change and it would "instantly" sync it up. I seem to recall updating my calendar or contacts (I think on my desktop Outlook) while my handheld was in the cradle. Yet, after waiting several minutes, this information still had not transferred over.

Something was funky with your setup then - if there's ONE thing that ActiveSync does right, it's the sync of changed Outlook data. You should see a changed contact sync within 5 seconds. That's the first instance of a problem like that to ever cross my path... 8O

[Scott R]

Something was funky with your setup then - if there's ONE thing that ActiveSync does right, it's the sync of changed Outlook data. You should see a changed contact sync within 5 seconds. That's the first instance of a problem like that to ever cross my path... 8O

I wonder if it might have been a problem with an older ROM revision on the iPaq, maybe? It wasn't until just recently that I got around to updating the ROM to a newer revision (still PPC 2000 for now - again, just cause I've been too lazy to order the upgrade). Or, maybe just a fluke.

Scott

[jeff]

I've seen information not transfer over immediately. It only happens over a slow connection via MAPI to an Exchange server.

[Gerard]

c. Click 'Options/Sync Mode'. Click the radio button which says "Continuously while the device is connected". That's all. Any changes made on either machine will immediately be updated, if your Outlook sync works at all. And on the 'Rules' tab make sure you select the device which is to be in charge.
Now in my case... I lost all my PC Contacts about 3 months ago on setting up a new device, in spite of having backed up and having done all the right stuff according to all the horror stories and FAQs. For some mysterious reason the PC contacts just vanished, though the Contacts and other data restored from a previous device's backup file remained on the new EG-800. I struggled a lot with fixing this, but to this day still get a 'Fatal Error' and cannot sync any data. All I can manage is manual file transfers, despite twice having reformatted my PC HD and rebuilding piece by piece, without a byte of old registry importing. It worked, then it didn't. Gotta love Activesync's reliability. It doesn't work for me now, 100% of the time.

[Ed Hansberry]

I don't think the ActiveSync backup restore process stinks, but the docs sure do. I have done numerous restores to my iPAQ over the past 2 years. You only have to do one thing after the hard reset - make sure your international settings are correct. Then you:
DockConnect as GuestSelect your profileTools|Backup/Restore and select Restore on the menuGo to the mall and catch a movie - it takes tooooooo long. :? Soft resetWhen you reconnect, tell it NOT to combine data

That is it. No fuss. No muss.

[ChrisW]

OK, I really am a dummy :cry: . You said:
Connect as Guest
Select your profile
When I dock, it just goes. There's no prompt for who I want to connect as. And once connected, it never asks what profile to use.

[mmidgley]

I am not sure, but I suspect that if a PocketPC has synced with two different computers (has two partnerships), if it is connected to a computer that doesn't have a partnership match for either of them, it connects as guest...

[M]

I'm glad this seems to be as much a problem for Windows users as it is for those of us with PPCs and "other" platforms... guess I'm not missing that much. It seems the work-arounds (cards, network connections) are the same, and it's not so bad. But the biggest irritant is definitely software packaged in .EXE installers that has to execute on a PC (with ActiveSync installed, none-the-less!) to load. Many can be torn apart to get to the ZIP hiding inside (Stuffit Expander does this automagically), but when there are CABs within CABs, there is no way to use it without a PC. And, this excess packaging just makes it a bigger download.
PPC software vendors... PLEASE just give us the CABs (if you have to provide other parts, ZIP 'em!)
Maybe Microsoft will continue down the path of everything XML and embrace SyncML... I know they didn't invent it, so it might be a little tough at first, but standards are good.

[Gerard]

M; If I understand you, you are a Mac person, right? Well, to get the CAB's contents, just use WinRAR! There's a beta to download here:
http://www.rarsoft.com/download.htm
That's what I use on the PC to extract all the mis-named files out of a CAB. This is especially useful if I want to update software without undoing carefully edited registry strings. I wrote the author last week, but it seems he's too busy de-buggung and feature-enhancing to bother with a PPC version of WinRAR just now. He said "maybe some day".

[Ed Hansberry]

When I dock, it just goes. There's no prompt for who I want to connect as. And once connected, it never asks what profile to use.

That doesn't make any sense. If you do a hard reset and don't change the name of your device before connecting, it has to ask if you want to be a guest or create a partnership. It has no clue what device it to begin the sync process, unless I am missing something. :?

[Daniel]

OK, here's what happens when I try to do a restore:
1. Connect device as guest
2. Start restore
3. "Select the profile that contains my backup"
4. Error:
Device Mismatch
Restore cannot be completed successfully. The selected backup file was created from a different type of mobile device. For mor information about possible causes and solutions to this error message, click Help.
5. Become quite irritated
6. Re-setup, re-install with increasing irritation.

This happens on my H3660 (and H3630 that I used to have) even though I just did a hard reset like 10 seconds before. I don't know what the point of a backup is if you can't restore in these circumstances. I would have expected that, on plugging in a new device that does not have a partnership, that you would get the option to resore. Or at least that you could force a restore no matter what. I get the impression that when I do a hard reset (maybe I'm flicking the little switch wrong or something) that the device id is reset and that the restore is comparing this to the backed up files.

Seems very stupid, Palm's way is better.

Daniel

[dma1965]

I religiously use ArtSSave Backup (http://www.artsoft.ru/eng/artssppc.htm) which can be set to do a completely unattended automatic backup at battery low and/or at a specified time every day. With a 128meg SD card always in my iPaq 3870, this is a Godsend. Every evening at 2:30 AM my iPaq turns itself on, Artssave checks for file differences, and then performs a differential backup, and works flawlessly on the restore, AND is about twice as fast as the built in version.

[Latch]

When Active Sync stops syncing,
I typically cntrl-alt-del
and then
"end task" on wcescomm
I then relaunch active sync by clicking on my start menu active sync icon.

That solves the problem 85% of the time for me without rebooting.

If the above still doesn't work, I do a soft reset on my Pocket PC and then put it back in the cradle... that combination almost always works without a restart pf the PC.

If it still doesn't connect.. its most likely because I've had my desktop machine on non-stop for a several days and the memory is so far gone that nothing else much is working anyway.

The above works for me... your results may vary :)

[M]

Gerard - Thanks for the tip; I'll check it out. I actually have an old copy of SoftWindows 98 on which I installed ActiveSync 3.5. I use this to get at the really hard files, but normally, Expander gets most files. The most troublesome one so far has been Acrobat Reader... it's one that has CABs within CABs (I even tried the command line extract, and it didn't work right).

[James]

]
Well MS is sorta stepping up into this.. At least on the updated Activesync from the recent euu updates, you can overwrite your data from the ppc,


I must have missed an annoucement somewhere...what's the EUU update?

[Jason Dunn]

I must have missed an annoucement somewhere...what's the EUU update?


It's also referred to as the "SP1" - Compaq has released it, so has Casio and HP. Check their download pages.

[ChrisW]

That doesn't make any sense. If you do a hard reset and don't change the name of your device before connecting, it has to ask if you want to be a guest or create a partnership.


I think I see the problem. My device is still named "Pocket_PC" because I didn't know it was renamable until afterwards. How much of a problem will this be for me? And how much of a hassle is it to rename now?

[chrisdavies]

I have been really happy to have stumbled across this forum. I use a PocketPC 2002 via virtual PC on my Mac. I have been struggling to get a good connection, and had assumed it was just some problem with running through an emulated OS. But I am getting the same symptoms as regular Windows users. I usually have to boot up from fresh and reset my PocketPC before I can get a good sync.

[James]

It's also referred to as the "SP1" - Compaq has released it, so has Casio and HP. Check their download pages.


I've got that, but didn't see a new version of ActiveSync in the download or release notes- unless it was only an update to AS on the device?

[Jason Dunn]

I've got that, but didn't see a new version of ActiveSync in the download or release notes- unless it was only an update to AS on the device?


There's no version of ActiveSync newer than 3.5 - the EUU1 is a Pocket PC-side update only.

[burmashave]

MS ActiveStink is the only aspect of Pocket PC that causes me to miss my Palm. Synchronization on my Palm III and then Palm V worked effortlessly.

Unfortunately, I believe it is unlikely that MS will ever improve ActiveSync very much. The legacy foundation they have created is weak, and to improve AS radically, they would need to start over. This is especially true of PIM synchronization with Outlook. I used several third party apps to sync with Lotus Organizer. Then, I grudgingly gave up on this and started to use Outlook on my desktop. I had so many problems with this, that I finally gave up on using a PIM on my PC.

This state of affairs stinks, and users should not be required to upgrade their OS to make AS work. Unfortunately, ActiveSync's bugginess will hurt the Pocket PC platform over the long run. Early adopters are willing to play and tweak; however, those who follow are not.

[James]

There's no version of ActiveSync newer than 3.5 - the EUU1 is a Pocket PC-side update only.


Whew - thought I was losing my mind there for a minute :)

It would be nice to see a new version of ActiveSync though.

[BugDude10]

popealien & burmashave: "ActiveStink" -- too funny! :lol:

FWIW: The only problems I've ever had with AS and my E-125 are (1) can never, ever get the Notes on my PC to appear as Notes on my PPC or vice-versa, and (2) I often cannot sync twice in one day without a reboot/restart on my PC (Crtl-Alt-Del / End Task on "wcescomm" / restart AS). I don't use AS for memory backup; I use a CF card and the utility that came with the E-125.