Paul Thurrott to the Windows Mobile Team: "Scew 'em!"

[Rocco Augusto]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.twit.tv/ww51' target='_blank'>http://www.twit.tv/ww51</a><br /><br /></div><em>&quot;Hey, I have one very callous thing myself to say about Windows Mobile guys, which is screw them. No offense, but, seriously. I was there for the first version of Windows CE, Pegasus I think it was called, and I have watched as they have mismanaged the Smartphone market from day one. It has always lagged behind, it has not always been Microsoft's fault, I understand that part of it is the nature of the business. But you know Apple revolutionized the smartphone business, not just with the hardware and the software but also with the way they are now presenting this stuff to users and updating the system overtime. Providing new functionality. This is something that doesn't happen on other smartphones. It's the type of thing where I can go to a Microsoft event and they can announce a new version of Windows Mobile and I will not see that it in the store for another, at the time, 18 months. It's ridiculous! That's ridiculous! Screw 'em!&quot;</em><br /><br />I was listening to this week&rsquo;s <a href="http://social.zune.net/external/LaunchClient.aspx?mtype=Podcast&amp;mid=bdfd8ca2-8ca3-4972-a803-931f61892161">Windows Weekly</a> podcast (Windows Weekly 51: In the MIX - 38-40 minutes in) and I was a little surprised to hear the above quote from the Windows Weekly co-host, and Windows IT Pro news editor, Paul Thurrott. Granted Paul goes on to say that in a pre-iPhone world, Windows Mobile was fine, and it was a lot like the other stuff, but the iPhone on a number of levels is a completely different device. Paul also makes it clear that he believes that in 3-4 versions, Microsoft might release something on the same level of the iPhone, but he isn't interested in following technology - as in copying it &ndash; he believes that it is more interesting to be there with the people that are innovating technology... And in other news, Apple licenses Microsoft's ActiveSync technology to &quot;innovate&quot; and bring push email service to iPhone users. How ironic that one of the best features announced for the iPhone lately is a Microsoft product!<br /><br />In all seriousness though. Paul lays claims to several truths that we as Windows Mobile users see with each new release. Microsoft has had the opportunity time and time again to bring us something that leaves us drooling and wanting more, but with each new release it seems that we are constantly taking one step forward and two steps back. Since the iPhone's release last year, we have seen a handful of updates to phones operating system and each new update either fixes some outstanding bugs or adds brand spanking new features to the user experience. While it is true that a lot of these features are stupid things that should have been included with the iPhone from the get-to, we'll just ignore that little fact for a moment to focus on the important one - Apple is releasing update after update and I don't see them stopping anytime soon. Whereas Microsoft, if we're lucky, releases one new update a year... and we have to shell out hundreds of dollars to purchase a new handset to actually receive the darn update! <MORE /><br /><br />It's amazing how one moment Microsoft could be on top of the Smartphone world and then the next moment it feels like their doing nothing but scrambling to play catch-up. Maybe Paul was overreacting a bit when he said &quot;screw 'em&quot;... and maybe he wasn't. I love the Windows Mobile platform and do not see myself switching to another mobile operating system anytime soon. Lately though my Windows Mobile experience has just felt tired and dated. I would love nothing more than for Microsoft to breathe new life into our handsets but at the end of the day I fear that Microsoft will continue to just give us more of the same.<br /><br />Who knows, maybe someone from the valley of Redmond is actually reading this article and we might actually get through to someone over there. So if you feel the same as Paul or even if you feel the complete opposite, let us know! If anything, we here at Smartphone Thoughts would love to hear everyone&rsquo;s opinion on the subject.

[Jason Dunn]

Great post Rocco. It's all so very true...Apple is doing many things right, and Microsoft had years to do some of the very same things. And it's not that Apple thought up some amazing new things - they just delivered upon things in a way that Microsoft really has trouble doing. It's all rather disheartening...I want Windows Mobile to improve, but significant improvements seem to always be coming "later". :(

[mbranscum]

How ironic that one of the best features announced for the iPhone lately is a Microsoft product!

Ironic or not, the only reason Exchange was added was because the business end users asked for it. Apple is actually listening and giving end users what they want. Not what Apple wants to spoon feed us.

As a long time user of WM products, I also own an iphone. I say the say the same thing as the author of your referenced article. If MS wants to continue down their tired old path, then screw them!

BTW, don't feel too sorry for MS. They're making a killing off all those Exchange licenses' selling to Apple.

[Tim Williamson]

On a related subject...if you have a Dash/S620/Excalibur...there may or may not be a 6.1 ROM available at that one forum where the developers for XDA's like to hang out, and I've heard it's a bit of an upgrade to the standaard ROM (faster, more functionality, pretty Home Screen, etc.). ;)

[pchop69]

I have had 2 Windows CE Palm-sized PC's, 4 Smartphones, 3 PPC/WM phones, and a $1000 CE2.0 Handheld PC.

Within 2 hours of the SDK/Exchange support announcement, I had an 8GB iPhone, and I spent the weekend kicking myself for not doing it sooner.

Combine this with HTC's handleing of the TyTN driver issues, and I don't see myself ever going back to WM.

[Rocco Augusto]

Ironic or not, the only reason Exchange was added was because the business end users asked for it. Apple is actually listening and giving end users what they want. Not what Apple wants to spoon feed us.

You hit the nail on the head there. A majority of the features and functionality of the iPhone are things that Microsoft thought for years had no place in the business market (mostly media). I'm sure this is like a huge smack-in-the-face-with a-smelly-fish for Microsoft to finally learn, if they are actually learning anything. Microsoft needs to learn that business users and consumers are... wait for it... ready? They're one in the same!

As I said before, I love the Windows Mobile platform and I don't see myself changing anytime soon... but I am having an awful lot of fun with the Google Android SDK and emulator :)

[Rocco Augusto]

On a related subject...if you have a Dash/S620/Excalibur...there may or may not be a 6.1 ROM available at that one forum where the developers for XDA's like to hang out, and I've heard it's a bit of an upgrade to the standaard ROM (faster, more functionality, pretty Home Screen, etc.). ;)

::waves hand in Jedi master fashion::

These are not the ROMs you are looking for!

(please try to not mention anything warez related gang, we only like to discuss the official/legal ROMS. Thanks! :))

[Kris Kumar]

Great post, Rocco!

Apple is keeping the device fresh. Without updating the hardware. It is always staying in the news. It is all thanks to the updates.

And somehow AT&T is not to keen about blocking the updates, and forcing Apple to release the updates on a new version of iPhone.

Why are the other products getting the cold shoulder when it comes to updates. :(

[Tim Williamson]

::waves hand in Jedi master fashion::

These are not the ROMs you are looking for!

(please try to not mention anything warez related gang, we only like to discuss the official/legal ROMS. Thanks! :))

Yes master. :)

[alese]

I'm using WM 6.1 on my device and while it's actually better than 6.0 (faster) it's no match for iPhone (not even close). It is also a perfect example of Microsoft needing one year to bring out zoom in PIE and threaded SMS - two rather small features, something Apple would do in one of their (many) automatic point releases...

It's funny how I can load any program I want on my WM device to upgrade and/or enhance functionality of my device and no carrier can do anything about it.
That's why I don't believe that carriers are to blame for the fact that Microsoft doesn't give out SW updates and fixes directly to users like Apple - this in my mind is just an excuse and at best has to do with anti-trust issues.
It's really sad to see that iPhone is getting updates on the regular basis and we are stuck with what we get when we buy the device (with an occasional upgrade for a specific device/carrier here an there).

Lately I'm more and more convinced that Microsoft now is just another big, slow and birocratic international conmpany doing whatever it was doing for years, with no desire to change or innovate. True Microsoft never was particulary innovative, but at least in the past they did have a passion to go after the market doing anything (and more ;) ) to overtake the competition and trying to deliver a better product.
I'm pretty sure that Microsoft from the nineties wouldn't need two years to deliver something that could (maybe) be on par with current iPhone, especially since people are saying that some concepts and ideas of what will be in WM7 was presented allready sometime in 2006.
But it's not just WM team that was caught with it's pants down, it just looks like whole Microsoft was, Vista is a similar mess, IE is again trying to catch the competition, their Web services/applications can't compete to Google and Zune is a copy of iPod's HW from a generation or two back (with WiFi), it's just sad :(
Seeing how slow or even unresponsive they are with fixing all this and with Bill G. gone I'm afraid that there are some very rough times ahead for them...

Sorry for a long rant.

[Stinger]

My perception is that Windows Mobile is not seen as a priority within Microsoft. The lack of innovation and change looks like a lack of resources.

Personally, I would have set up the development team somewhere other than Redmond. I know there's a lot of people on this website and others that are very passionate about cell phones. However, in general, I get the impression that Americans have other priorities in life other than their cell phone (in the pre-iPhone world ;) ). I would have centred WM develop in a country that's fanatical about cell phones, such as the UK, Italy or South Korea.

In the past, the US market hasn't seen the best smartphones running non-Microsoft OSs. It's no wonder that WM team rested on their laurels when the only competition developers ever saw was the Treo 600/650.

It's a shame because Microsoft have got the potential to totally dominate the smartphone market.

[cinimod1000]

The MS Mobile business model is very different to that of the iPhone. For the most part, Apple controls both the software and hardware, as I understand it. I once read somewhere, that MS only controls approx 60% of the Mobile software build, and practically zero on the hardware. Are there no standards for hardware in the MS world? Are HTC, Samsung, etc allowed to build what they want? Looks like it to me - see the differences in final software build (inc registry, etc) on say an Excalibur, and a BJ. Then throw the carriers into the mix. It now becomes impossible to produce a product, OR a software update in a timely fashion. And then, only if they want to.......
Why, oh why, can't MS take advantage of the "Update" feature, already built into these phones? That does not have to be used for "critical" updates only, as MS seems to think. By the way, what critical updates has anyone ever received, let alone full feature updates ???!!! Come on MS, get your act together.
PS. I have a BJ, NOT and iPhone, ha.

[whydidnt]

Stinger, the contradiction is that Apple's development team is based in the US, and they don't seem to have a hard time figuring out what end users want.

I'll post here the same thing I have in previous threads over at PPCT. The software is an issue, particularly the web browser (but we've seen that from MS before - how long did it take IE to get tabbed browsing, etc?), but the real issue is the hardware - After 10+ years of CE/PPC/WM things have evolved very little. Considering all of the OEMs that have the potential to build a WM device, why haven't we seen anything that can remotely compete with the iPhone hardware wise?

Show me a small WM device with a 3.5" HVGA screen and 16 GB of Flash Memory. Oh and make is very small and pocketable. You can't do it because it doesn't exist, even if you wanted to add memory with a removable memory slot, virtually every recent WM phone has a MicroSD slot. The biggest card you can buy is 8GB today. Sure Sandisk talks about a 16 GB card, but you can't buy it anywhere. By the time you can, I'm quite certain you'll be able to buy a 32 GB iPhone, since the iPod touch has already proven it can be done.

Even the most recently announced VGA devices, such as the Sony have tiny 3" screens and limited internal memory. If you are going to make an all-in-one device, a smartphone if you will, then you have to make it easy for people to use it that way. You can't make me decide which fraction of my music I can bring with, or which 1 movie I can take along, you have to let me bring the everything. If I have to carry along a separate PMP for this stuff you have eliminated the Multi-media benefit form the phone. MS and it's OEM partners STILL haven't seemed to figure this out. Originally this could have been a cost/power consumption issue, but with Flash memory as cheap as it is today that just isn't the case.

I think this is a case of MS getting caught with their pants down because they tried to hard to segment the market -- There is no reasonable reason to have 2 different WM interfaces today. I'm pretty sure they purposely downplayed media capabilities in years past thinking they would be stealing business from their failed PMP lineup, and even now you wonder how much the Zune impacts these devices. Apple has proven you CAN have a media centric on-the-go phone that isn't huge. Because of their lack of foresight, they never asked their OEM's to push the hardware envelope and now we see the results of their errors.

Fortunately, MS is a big company with the resources to fix this, if they decide to. I have yet to see anything out of Remond to show me that they really understand the excitement regarding the iPhone. And no, giving me some swipe gestures on my Today screen isn't going to address the real issues with the software/hardware combination.

[Rocco Augusto]

I'm loving the responses guys, keep 'em coming!

I fell Microsoft has shot itself in the foot (and possibly the arm) as their Windows Mobile platform is all over the place. There are millions upon millions of WM devices out in the open and each model is running on different hardware and configured for different networks. Apple has the advantage in controlling software as well as hardware and on top of that, content (SDK, games, music, movies, etc).

Getting Sony Ericsson to start using the WM platform was a great step in the right direction. The new young blood on the playing field is good for business and will make the other manufacturers step up their game (think Moto Q), but I don't feel it is really enough. If Microsoft expects to continue competing, and eventually dominating, then they will need to make some serious changes. The most important change will be that they will have to release a phone that they designed in house. Sure HTC, Motorola, Samsung and the others are doing an OK job, but truth be told, Microsoft are the visionaries here and it is about time that they stepped up to the plate and showed the other companies how to do it right.

The Zune is a perfect example of what happens when you outsource a would be killer product. The first gen Zune was bulky and buggy, once they took control of the hardware they released a pretty awesome product that people actually wanted to own (who'd a thunk it!)

[Jason Dunn]

Great thread here - I love seeing this kind of discussion here, I hope we can have much more of it. :D

[orgwizard]

I think you got it right Rocco.
Apple has a huge advantage in that they have total control over their device and is only dealing with one carrier, so sending out an update is a much easier event.
MS on the other hand has spread their OS accross numerous hardware and carriers each of which make their adjustments to OS. Verizon likes to lock things down, T-mobile likes to add thier little customizations, and companies like HTC are adding apps to allow for touch on some of their models.
And this doesn't even take into account all the other applications that folks have developed and installed on their phones. Updating devies with all these variations isn't a trivial matter and has the potential of causing a lot of problems for phone owners and a lot of complaints for carriers, since they'd be the first ones to get those calls when problems pop up.

I'm still holding out hope for the windows mobile platform but I think they have a long way to go to compete with the likes of blackberry and the iphone.
I think to really be competitive they'd really need to either start making their own hardware, which is probably not likely, or tie themselves closely with one inovative vendor, like HTC.
Put their heads together on inovating the hardware and software together and I think they could put out some awesome products.
who knows thought if they'll ever learn.

[Jason Dunn]

I once read somewhere, that MS only controls approx 60% of the Mobile software build, and practically zero on the hardware. Are there no standards for hardware in the MS world?

I'd say the software portion is more like 80%, but I don't know that for a fact - there are indeed some hardware standards, but the reality is that over the years that's been relaxed a great deal...largely to spur innovation at the hardware level. You see, when Microsoft said "All Pocket PCs have to have 320 x 240 screens, buttons here and here, etc." that had the net result of all the devices looking and being pretty much the same. Now that such restrictions have been largely removed, it's up to the ODMs to do the hardware the way they see fit. And the result in a lot of cases are slow, sluggish devices lacking in memory. The iPhone was a great kick in the ass to all the ODMs that people want performance in their devices.

[Jason Dunn]

MS on the other hand has spread their OS accross numerous hardware and carriers each of which make their adjustments to OS. Verizon likes to lock things down, T-mobile likes to add thier little customizations, and companies like HTC are adding apps to allow for touch on some of their models.

This is a HUGE disadvantage, but I keeping him that "this year" will be the year that Microsoft finally starts to pull the ODMs and carriers upstream in terms of hardware quality and user experience.

[Tim Williamson]

This is a HUGE disadvantage, but I keeping him that "this year" will be the year that Microsoft finally starts to pull the ODMs and carriers upstream in terms of hardware quality and user experience.

I think this NEEDS to be Microsoft's focus right now for WinMo, and making WinMo a friendlier user experience (6.1 is a good step in this direction with the "Sliding Media" Home screen), since even the most diehard WinMo fans are making a switch to the iPhone.

Heck, I've been a fan since Pocket PC 2000, and always recommend to friends/family to pick up a WinMo phone for it's flexibility and multimedia, but I've even contemplated making the switch to the iPhone myself. I'm extremely happy with my Dash, and am tied to WinMo due to a few specific pieces of software, but once those are available on the iPhone, I'm going to consider making a switch (lack of available funds can always be a huge deciding factor when it really comes down to it though ;)).

[aristoBrat]

Apple has a huge advantage in that they have total control over their device and is only dealing with one carrier, so sending out an update is a much easier event.
Definitely an advantage/easier.

Although, scope wise, considering that they deal with carrier per country, but six countries (AT&T, O2 UK, O2 Ireland, Orange France, T-Mobile Germany and T-Mobile Hungary), it's kind of mind-boggling for me to imagine as many people across the world simultaneously applying iPhone updates as happen.

MS on the other hand has spread their OS accross numerous hardware and carriers each of which make their adjustments to OS. Verizon likes to lock things down, T-mobile likes to add thier little customizations, and companies like HTC are adding apps to allow for touch on some of their models.
I think this model has the potential to work well.

I'd just modify the process so that when the last person has modified the phone, before the phone goes on sale, it gets shipped back to Microsoft for the final "yeah or nay" decision.

Microsoft needs to put someone who has the potential to go as carnival freak crazy as Steve Jobs does in charge of making that decision. If the final WM device doesn't wow him, it goes back through the process again. :D

[SassKwatch]

...but truth be told, Microsoft are the visionaries here....

Somehow I suspect you'd get PLENTY of 'discussion' if you wrote an article with that as the title, and attempted to support the hypothesis in the article. Snarky :)

[SassKwatch]

My perception is that Windows Mobile is not seen as a priority within Microsoft. The lack of innovation and change looks like a lack of resources.


That's been my contention for at least a couple yr. And though earlier in this thread someone else bemoaned Billy G leaving MS as being a potential indicator of coming decline in the company, I'm not sure it won't be the best thing that's happened to MS since DOS. And I say that because I put the (theoretical) lack of resources for WM directly in BG's lap. He spent how many yr trotting out the 'Tablet PC' concept at show after show after show. And what do we have even today.....*at least* 5 yr after it was initially postulated??? A niche product.....at best. And all the while, WM was ripe for the dedication/resources that the tablet sucked up. Who knows where the WM platform might be today if BG had had the 'vision' to follow that path instead of the tablet.

I recall being EXTREMELY excited about the >>> PPC <<< platform when I purchased an iPAQ 38xx series device when they were initially released. So excited that I told several friends I thought the potential was there for that type device to make laptops virtually extinct with a few generations of innovative development, and desktops little more than necessary evils for most people. So excited that PPCT was my very first surfing stop *EVERY NIGHT* when I came home from work. So excited that I bought a 'lifetime' subscription to PPCT when Jason first introduced same there.

And for the first couple yr thereafter, my enthusiasm remained HIGH. But then along came ActiveStink. For the first couple yr, I had absolutely *NO* problems with it.....everything worked just hunky-dorry. And I wondered what all those who complained about it were doing wrong. But once the AS problems started, they've only become worse with each new release and each new WM device and/or laptop/desktop I've purchased. I haven't even bothered to *attempt* to connect a WM device with the new Vista equipped Dell desktop sitting in my study, and wouldn't be surprised if I never do so.

So, it was with some snarky humor that I chuckled to myself at the announcement of Apple licensing AS for the iPhone. "There's the beginning of the end for the iPhone" was the first thought that crossed my mind.

In the end, I *hope* MS gets their act together with WM, but darned if I'll be holding my breath waiting for it to happen.

[possmann]

To anyone who thinks MS is improving I only have a couple of things to say:

Alarms
ActiveSync (or whatever it is in Vista now)

If they can't get these 2 simple and CORE features to release and release again... What kind of confidence do I have in their abilty to be real trend setters?

Time to p[lay catch-up with the iPhone - and I am only talking SOFTWARE...

I have a HTC6800 with 6.0 and I feel like I took a step back from my Treo 700W that was on 5.x. I'm resetting more frequently and the performance is slower (same carrier - Verizon).

[maxnix]

With a non-user replaceable battery? I don't think so.

With no 3G network radio? No!

The only thing innovative was the higher resolution display. Much has been made about the interface, but when I see an iPhone user, they are constantly fidgeting with the screen. One guy at a conference even had a plastic stand so he could admire the eye candy! Doesn't it have any BT driven voice menus? That is how I use my WM5 phone (3G for over two years, thank you).

I think also that while Pocket Office functions are nice and have their place for some, generally, emails that require long replys or have attachments are cumbersome on phone size screens and keyboards. Spreadsheets and editing documents are difficult tasks at best. sometimes one needs a larger higher resoution screen and a keyboard.

What MS did wrong with WM is try to ape the desk top Windows look and feel. It needed to be compatible, but they should have started with a clean sheet of paper. Tying it to the PPC platform speeded early development somewhat, but now it is time for its own embedded kernel with voice recognition functions built in.

[NunoUFO]

I believe you are all leaving something very important out of the equation:
Wimo is much more richer in terms of device form factors. With diferent brands and hardware specs. Apple has only 2 at most devices out there. As for the hardware part it is really interesting (except for the no 3G here in Europe), the form factor and aesthetical part is subjective, and in my humble and personal opinion not out of this world.

Now in terms of real world usability, it gets a big thumbs down because it relies on something the Wimo team has been working hard with their partners ODMs wich is the one hand usability. Foget this when you acquire an iPhone. You will in most cases have to use one hand to hold the iPhone and the other to reach certain functionalities.

As for the updates to the software, while you cant argue with the fact that Apple as launched an update months after the thing was comercial avaliable (this could have two readings aswell) no one can assume it will be like this in the future. Remember, now they have all the attentions on their product...

Of course one could say that updates are far better in iPhone, since you dont have to buy a new one. And I ask: for how long?

Regards
NL