All That Apple Stuff Today...

[Jason Dunn]

Apple unleashed several new products today, and updates to older products, so I thought I'd jot down some thoughts and reactions about what I read about (this text is adapted from a series of emails I sent to the <a target="_blank" href="http://www.mobiussite.com">Mobius</a> email list while discussing this).<br /><br /><img border="1" src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com//dht/auto/1200440120.usr1.png" alt="" /><br /><br /><strong>Apple Charging $19.95 for the iPod Touch Software Update</strong><br />Utterly ridiculous, but it's what Apple does - remember the $2 charge for 802.11n? Apple has the worst type of corporate arrogance imaginable, and almost everyone lets them get away with it. But that's also how they're able to create some pretty impressive products - so you take the bad with the good. Myself, I take none of it (for now - I continue to be tempted by some of their products).<br /><br /><strong>iTunes Movie Rentals</strong><br />It's so incredibly frustrating seeing Microsoft have all the same pieces - Xbox Live videos, Windows Mobile + Zune hardware - and not do a damn thing with it. Microsoft could have beaten Apple to the punch by more than a year, but there's probably still some committee arguing about it. The Apple solution looks slick, and the pricing looks a bit better than the Xbox Live pricing (I think - points confuse matters somewhat).<div style="page-break-after: always;"><span style="display: none;"> </span></div><br /><strong>Apple TV v2</strong><br />The update looks great, lots of cool features. Finally, the product is no longer a joke - they evolved it to what it should have been when it was first released. The UI is slick, I love it. And at least current Apple TV owners don't need to pay for the upgrade. I finally got access to Xbox Marketplace movies in December, and it was a truly pathetic launch - about 30 movies, no TV shows, only a handful are in HD or even movies you've ever heard of. Apple now had a powerful round-trip solution from TV room to computer to mobile device.<br /><br /><strong>MacBook Air</strong><br />So it's a thin laptop - is that so exciting? Maybe it's more impressive in person. Multi-touch on the touchpad is pretty cool, though I think it's one of those &quot;makes a great bullet point&quot; but most people won't use it past the first day. Seems like it would be useful in iPhoto more than anywhere else. I watched the demo video for Macbook Air and I had to chuckle at how they made the lack of an optical drive a feature rather than a limitation. The &quot;remote optical drive&quot; thing is pretty slick though. 80 GB 4200 RPM hard drive? Bleh. 5 hours of battery life is good, and I sure wish my XPS M1330 came with a back-lit keyboard! I don't see any mention of a memory card reader either. What's with Apple's hate-on for memory card readers? It's silly their monitors don't have them, but it's inexcusable for a laptop not to have an SD/Memory Stick/XD card slot at the bare minimum. It's like if they didn't invent it, or they don't sell it, it doesn't exist. One USB port? No Ethernet port? No Firewire? This laptop is obviously aimed at a very specific niche, so while it might be a killer solution for some, it doesn't seem to be very well-rounded. I have to admire Apple's engineering though, and it's impressive that Intel designed a smaller CPU for them - I wish more notebook makers would care about making their notebooks as small as possible. Every spare millimetre matters.<br /><br /><strong>iPhone January Update</strong><br /><a target="_blank" href="http://www.apple.com/iphone/gettingstarted/guidedtourupdate2/large.html">This video was interesting to watch</a>. Apple added significantly useful features to the iPhone only a few months after release - by controlling the hardware, the software, and ultimately the customer, they're able to innovate much faster than Windows Mobile can. We've all known this for a long time, but this is real-world proof of the huge liability that Microsoft finds itself in.<br /><br /><strong>Time Capsule</strong><br />So this is Apple's answer to Windows Home Server? Seems nice and simple, and has some good features, but it's insane that they didn't make it dual hard drive setup in case the drive fails. I suppose if it's <strong>ONLY</strong> a backup and no unique data is being stored on it, then you have a copy of that data on your Mac/PC and it's not such a big deal of your Time Capsule drive crashes. But hard drives do fail, &quot;enterprise class&quot; or not.<br /><br />Did anyone else notice how much of this new stuff is &quot;Windows friendly&quot; in terms of inter-operating with a Windows ecosystem? Apple is really stepping into Microsoft's turf, which is quite interesting to see.<br /><br />So what are your thoughts on what Apple unveiled today?<br /><br /><em>Jason Dunn owns and operates <a target="_blank" href="http://www.thoughtsmedia.com">Thoughts Media Inc.</a>, a company dedicated to creating the best in online communities. He enjoys mobile devices, digital media content creation/editing, and pretty much all technology. He lives in Calgary, Alberta, Canada with his lovely wife, and his sometimes obedient dog. He's still not ready to buy a Mac.</em>

[Jaxbulls]

If I remember correctly Apple charged the $2 for that 802.11n update because of some weird US laws. When Apple released the device at first it wasn't mentioned that it was n just b/g. There is some kind of law from my understanding that prohibits Apple from just turning on n even though it had the chip. But if you charge for those features you can add the functionality. I'm wondering if that may be the case with the Touch. Of course they didn't need to charge $20 for it.

I think overall a solid keynote. While the MacbookAir may not be for either Jason or myself the thing I am impressed by is that they are innovating. PC laptop manufacturers just don't innovate. Their laptops finally look decent but when has a Dell/HP laptop had a groundbreaking feature? Meanwhile Apple has pioneered the removal of Floppy's, now DVD's, they have bluetooth standard on every machine, their magnetic closure and magnetic power adapter are better than anything on any laptop. When was the last time pc makers had this kind of innovation. This isn't a Mac-Fan-Boy it's someone looking at the bigger picture with how Apple pushes the envelope and the PC makers tread water.

[Phronetix]

I agree with Jason. Charging $20 for the Touch update is beyond ridiculous. I mean, the more I think about it, the more angered it makes me.

They are not charging any more for the new Touches, so why charge for the update? The applications did NOT need to be further developed for the Touch, did they? They are exactly like the ones on the iPhone as far as I can tell. And honestly, it is so easy to jailbreak a Touch and install the apps that it really does not make sense. If I still had my Touch, I would just keep it in its jailbroken state.

Is Apple attempting to punish the early adopters? It makes no sense. Will someone please help my simple mind with the logic?

The tv will now make its introduction into the Hayes household. The rental service justifies my continued heavy use of the US iTunes store. Now, just need to buy an HDTV set. lol This might get interesting.

The Air is pretty amazing. I wish I had an excuse to need one, but I likely never will. If I got another laptop, it would be the MacBook Pro (have an entry level MacBook). It would make the bag lighter though... The easier and better way to decrease my travel baggage weight remains exercise. :wink:

I was hoping for a 16GB iPhone. I was ready to sell my wife's red Treo, give her my iPhone and get the higher capacity. Well, after I asked her for her phone.

I have yet to watch the keynote stream. I will have more thoughts then.

Dennis

[Phronetix]

Oh, and the multitouch on the trackpad...


Jason, have you tried multitouch? I think it has potential to be a KILLER feature. Of course, the key question is whether it translates well on an indirect surface like a trackpad. Lists, for example, operate in such a way that a swipe on the trackpad upward brings the page scrolling down. Kinda like airplane navigation controls from videogames, and presumably from real life too. :lol:

[USArcher]

- iTunes Movie Rentals...I agree 100% with your assessment. They should be one or two years ahead when it comes to content partnerships for Media Center and XBox. The Media Center team has been diddling so long with Satellite tuners, Cablecards and IPTV that they haven't focused enough on new content deals. Microsoft elected NetFlix founder to their board of directors last year. You'd think Microsoft and NetFlix would have more to show for it. The state of "connected entertainment" that Microsoft touts...looks like its in severe disarray to those of us on the outside.

- Apple TV v2 $229 is really a great price considering it has 40GB, 802.11n and HDMI ports. The lowest prices Media Extender currently available is Linksys DMA 2100 $269. Microsoft needs to work with its partners to get prices down and get a Zune dock built into future Extender products.

- Time Capsule $299 is a killer price for a 500GB, 802.11n, gigabit ethernet router. Windows Home Server has some significant software/scabability advantages though that Time Capsule. I bought a HP EX470 for $599. It included at 500GB but also does not 802.11n/gigabit router capabilities. In any case, this product category is new... Microsoft and their partners can win this but they need to get the price down substantially. WHS OEM Software price is the first place to start...it should cost no where near $179.

Its seems evident that Apple is using iTunes profits to offset the cost of AppleTV and Time Capsule. Thats going to be tough for Microsoft's partner business model to compete with. Microsoft probably needs, if they haven't already, to establish profit sharing arrangements with its hardware partners.

[Adam Krebs]

I have to agree about the innovating thing, but that doesn't mean I can't be upset. I agree that Microsoft and the other guys don't seem to be innovating in the same ways, but they provide the serious tech products that allow Apple to put these features in their products at a somewhat reasonable cost. Apple doesn't truly innovate; it takes ideas that other people have come up with and deliver them in such a way that the average Joe can understand. These otherwise amazing technologies would've failed on their own, but Apple's massive hype machine keeps it alive.

It's not always the good technologies that get kept. Case in point: iPhone's* lack of a proper GPS. Instead, they use cell phone and hotspot triangulation, which is a stopgap solution at best.

The hyperbole Apple uses to market its products reminds me of daytime infomercials ("don't fumble with messy strainers!", "no more popped buttons at work!"): it's a product I'm going to pay way too much for to fix a problem I didn't know I had. In introducing the Macbook Air, Mr. Jobs declared that the notebook's magnetic latch was superior to hook closures, "no hooks or things to catch on your clothing," he explained. I've never had an issue with a laptop hook catching on my clothing...



*and their annoying habbit of not using definite and indefinite articles with their product names.

[baralong]

While the MacbookAir may not be for either Jason or myself the thing I am impressed by is that they are innovating. PC laptop manufacturers just don't innovate.

Hmm, not sure about how inovative the removal of the DVD drive is. I'm typing on a Fujitsu T2010, no built-in DVD drive, small light, tablet, I get 5 hours from the standard battery and 8 when I use the extended. It also came with a docking station that has a built in DVD burner, plus I get heaps of ports (2USB firewire, ethernet, VGA audio in/out), bluetooth, but not n wifi. OK I dont' have multi-touch, but I can use it in tablet mode, wacom based. Also I don't have magnetic catches on anything, but I don't think I'll miss that.

I'm sorry if that sounded a bit "well mine is better, so there!" but the point is the only innovating feature on that is the multi touch pad, cool I"m sure. Apple makes fantastic looking laptops and way cooler than my Fujitsu, but, this one just doesnt' seem that great.

***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

[onlydarksets]

Here's a deal-killer on the "Air" - the battery is not removable (http://gizmodo.com/345177/macbook-airs-fatal-flaw-battery-ram-hd-sealed-like-an-ipod).

[David Tucker]

I've never had an issue with a laptop hook catching on my clothing...

But the first time it pulls your pants off when you walk away from your desk, oh how you'll wish for that magnetic closure!:D

[Macguy59]

Hmm, not sure about how inovative the removal of the DVD drive is. I'm typing on a Fujitsu T2010, no built-in DVD drive, small light, tablet, I get 5 hours from the standard battery and 8 when I use the extended.

It's also almost a full pound heavier, twice as thick and a smaller inferior screen. There's trade offs with everything. That said I have a hard time seeing the "Air" as a hot seller.

***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

[michaelejahn]

you wrote;

"It's silly their monitors don't have them, but it's inexcusable for a laptop not to have an SD/Memory Stick/XD card slot at the bare minimum."

I am sorry, but I have a PC and never ever use the one that is there. Nor does my wife, my twins, nor does my Mom - well all have Dells - so, it is not like I am some Mac fanatic, I just dispute that such a thing is inexcusable.

"It's like if they didn't invent it, or they don't sell it, it doesn't exist."

No, well, I susspect that since many people have no use for it, and as it adds cost (and weight) - well, their marketing research showed that many people do not need such a thing.

"One USB port?"

Oh, you have have many devices - oh, perhaps they are all on your desk ? Buy a frekin' hub. Again, this has nothing to do with a Mac, or perhaps you love plugging 5 devices in and out every time you move from work and then come back to the home "office" - sheesh !

"No Ethernet port?"

Again, well, color me forward thinking, but we have been wireless for about, what, 2 years now ?

"No Firewire?"

We keep all our email, documents, spead sheets and images at Either Google Docs or Picassa. Who needs a big hard drive ?

" This laptop is obviously aimed at a very specific niche..."

Yes, apparently, everyone is in that "niche" but you...

"... so while it might be a killer solution for some, it doesn't seem to be very well-rounded."

I think you need to get out more and meet normal people who use a laptop primarily for email - everything else, there is SAAS (we uses SalesForce and Basecamp - heck, when I visit my mom, I don't even bring "my" laptop, i just log in on hers.

So, all your ranting against Mac has no bearing on Apple - all your opinions are based on assumptions that you need this and that - well, I disagree that all this objections have anything to do with Apple - they have to do with making a true mobile workstation, and Apple has figured out what i 'really' need, and no more.

[trolane]

I agree Microsoft needs to move their asses and get going on the consumer area. It used to be Microsoft would release new stuff every few months that was cool. Now things take forever to move from one beta to another, take Windows Live services for example. I can't comment on their internal structure since i do not know it but it appears it would have too many levels and people involved in it.

Windows Server boxes should be around $300 for a sweet spot with 500GB Drive.
As for routing capabilities it would be nice but not needed. I like having a seperate wifi-router so if the computer needs to be off i could still get on the net.

Zune: The zune is good. Would i want touch screen? No , i do not want grease and body oil all over the screen.

Zune Software: While i prefer windows media player over anything else, the Zune software is nice and simplistic for Joe Dee Dum. It would be nice to have an advanced user mode though with editing functions and stuff.

Move Rentals Online: They already exist from several companies and i do not use them. I don't want SD anything anymore. I want 1080 feeds only.
What i would love is the option to watch movies in HD format from a legit online site instead of a theater even if cost is still $10 a movie.

I will never buy an Apple product, Apple products are nothing but HUGE tie ins. At least with Microsoft you can use other software or content sources if you want.

[Dyvim]

I will never buy an Apple product, Apple products are nothing but HUGE tie ins. At least with Microsoft you can use other software or content sources if you want.

Your position is just as silly and indefensible as being an Apple fanboi.

Do you really think Microsoft is any different from Apple in terms of tie-ins? What about Zune Marketplace and Zune, XBox Live Marketplace and XBox, XBox and Zune, Office and Windows Mobile, the list goes on and on. It's called having a business model and all the big players do it. I don't particularly care for it, but it's senseless to call Apple out on it when Microsoft, Sony, etc. behave the same.

And you seem to be badly misinformed about content sources. The majority of all music on all iPods comes ripped from CD's or illegally downloaded over torrents. And ripping a DVD to put on your iPod or Apple TV is no different or more complicated (perhaps less so) than ripping it and putting it on your Zune, Windows Mobile device, or Windows Media machine.

[onlydarksets]

Plus, the Air is not really revolutionary. Compare to the Toshiba Portege:

Air Portege
Screen: 13.3" 12.1"
Weight: 3lbs 2.4lbs
Height: .76" .77"
Width: 12.80" 11.10"
Depth: 8.94" 8.50"Plus, a user-replaceable battery and hard drive.
http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/product/pdf_files/datasheet/portege_R500-S5001X.pdf

[Stinger]

The problem is in philosophy - Microsoft creates platforms, Apple creates solutions.

Developers want platforms, customers want solutions. And it's the customers who generate profits for a business.

Look at the difference between one of the latest Windows Mobile phones, like the HTC TTyN II, and the iPhone. The TTyN is obviously the more powerful phone but it requires a lot of time and knowledge to get it into a reasonable working state. The user has to spend time customising and adding third party software to reach the device's potential. And that's assuming that the third party software plays nice and doesn't crash the phone. You've got Microsoft, HTC and the third party developers' ideas all trying to compete against each other and the end result is often a confusing mess.

On the other hand, the iPhone concentrates on doing a few things very well and seamlessly integrates these functions together. You lose a lot of flexibility but its obvious that the average consumer doesn't care.

The only product that comes close to Apple's philosophy is the Xbox 360 and it's a great product. The trend is towards well-integrated but closed end-to-end solutions. Microsoft needs to move fast if it wants to recapture lost ground.


I will never buy an Apple product, Apple products are nothing but HUGE tie ins. At least with Microsoft you can use other software or content sources if you want.

I think that's certainly Apple's intention. However, there's plenty of alternative syncing solutions for the iPod and there's an obvious reason why Amazon have gone down the DRM-free MP3 route.

[faztang]

I really am trying to like my Zune, really I am.
But the software blows (Windows Media Player is 10 times better), there is still no real video store available, and where the heck are the accesories (especially cases!). For years I have refused to drink the iPod Kool Aid. I have had three mp3 players, iRiver, Creative (the best), and now the Zune. I had $250 to spend and wanted high capacity (almost bought the ZEN) so I picked the Zune over the iPod Classic. Oh if I just gave in and bought the Classic I would actually be able to have a case with a belt clip and would be able to rent movies on my mp3 player. Damn Damn Damn. OK Microsoft you got 11 more months to win me over, otherwise this thing is going onto ebay. Red Zune big deal!!! Announce something exciting!

Yes I know you can use Windows Media Center to record TV shows but have you tried to tranfer the shows over to the Zune? 2 hours movies take about 2 hours to convert. Another glitch in my mind. A Microsoft file should not have to be converted.

[mbranscum]

One things for sure....MS better wake up and smell the coffee. Between Apple and RIM, they're losing it fast if they don't come up with something innovative....fast.

[Rocco Augusto]

Plus, the Air is not really revolutionary. Compare to the Toshiba Portege:

Air Portege
Screen: 13.3" 12.1"
Weight: 3lbs 2.4lbs
Height: .76" .77"
Width: 12.80" 11.10"
Depth: 8.94" 8.50"Plus, a user-replaceable battery and hard drive.
http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/product/pdf_files/datasheet/portege_R500-S5001X.pdf

i was just about to post this

The problem is in philosophy - Microsoft creates platforms, Apple creates solutions.

Developers want platforms, customers want solutions. And it's the customers who generate profits for a business.

Really? I thought it was the ridiculously huge price tag on all of Apple's products ;)

In all fairness, Apple does make pretty products but at the end of the day I need something that does more than just look pretty. I need something that works the way I need it to work, not the way someone else decided the product should work for me.

I mean, come on, $1799USD for a laptop that is just essentially nothing more than a supped up Folio?! I think I'll pass. And before all of the fanboys get up in arms about that comment, think about it. No optical drives, no Ethernet port, no Firewire (which is retarded since that would have at least made up a little bit for the no optical drives!)

If you happen to fall in the niche of people that can afford to waste $1799 on this rubbish, than more power to you, but unfortunately in the real world it is safe to assume that if a real consumer bought this product they may at one point in time want to watch a DVD on it or, I dunno, pull some images off of a memory stick form their camera or hook up a video camcorder via Firewire or heck, even install a few games or some applications... you know, the things that people who have computers do! I mean seriously, what good is it to have a multi-touch mouse pad if you don't even have a spot to plug in your memory stick to get the dang pictures off of the camera?!

Sometimes I think old Steve just sits around and tries to come up with new ways to give people less while raping their wallets for more and STILL have them THANK him at the end of the day. :rolleyes:

[Jason Dunn]

If I remember correctly Apple charged the $2 for that 802.11n update because of some weird US laws.

Yes, I've since been informed by a couple of people that it's related to Sarbanes-Oxley. On the other hand, if you look at Microsoft releasing the Zune 2.0 firmware for Zune v.1 devices, it seems that it *is* possible.

[onlydarksets]

That's right! I think it had to do with revenue recognition and delivering "hardware" in a different quarter than when it was sold.

[Jason Dunn]

That's right! I think it had to do with revenue recognition and delivering "hardware" in a different quarter than when it was sold.

Yes, that's exactly it. So how did Microsoft do what they did with the Zune then? I'm not convinced that Apple isn't just using it as an excuse. Although they're not using it as an excuse, people defending the $20 charge are. ;)

[Jason Dunn]

Jason, have you tried multitouch? I think it has potential to be a KILLER feature.

I've played around with it on the iPhone and iPod Touch, and it's indeed very cool on a handheld device...but on a laptop? I'm not convinced. Still, it's one of those features that doesn't add cost/bulk even if you don't use it, so kudos to Apple for adding it. To me it felt like they needed an extra feature to talk about though because it's hard to say much about a super-thin laptop other than "Hey, look, it's wicked thin!".

I really *am* impressed with the engineering on the Air, though I do feel they left a few too many things out. :confused:

[onlydarksets]

From all I can tell, though, they took a Toshiba Portege, removed the DVD drive and ethernet port, sealed the battery and hard drive to make you completely dependent on Apple for even basic maintenance, made it wider & deeper to accomodate a larger screen, and shaved 1/4" off the depth (my earlier specs were wrong - at it's deepest it's 1"). They did make it cheaper than the Portege, so I'll give them that.

I just don't get the allure of it as a novel or groundbreaking product.

[Jason Dunn]

Time Capsule $299 is a killer price for a 500GB, 802.11n, gigabit ethernet router.

You think so? You can get a 500 GB Lacie NAS drive, with some killer software for sharing content, for $179. A 802.11n router is maybe $100 or so, so the $299 price point seems a bit high to me, or at best average.

Windows Home Server has some significant software/scabability advantages though that Time Capsule. I bought a HP EX470 for $599. It included at 500GB but also does not 802.11n/gigabit router capabilities.

WHS and this product are completely different approaches to the problem of backup. WHS does complete system backups, supports redundancy, a great online file access/remote desktop solution, and a rich third party plug-in system. Apple's solution is slick, but it's a very different solution: it's just a single hard drive with a router/WAP built-in.

WHS OEM Software price is the first place to start...it should cost no where near $179.

Nah. The only reason they released an OEM version at all is for the 0.01% of human beings that want to build their own machines. ;) 99.98% of the market will buy the pre-configured machines like you did, so the price of the OEM software is a completle non-issue IMO.

[Macguy59]

Really? I thought it was the ridiculously huge price tag on all of Apple's products ;)

:p Spoken like the fanboy you are.

***really long quote trimmed by mod JD***

[Jason Dunn]

Here's a deal-killer on the "Air" - the battery is not removable (http://gizmodo.com/345177/macbook-airs-fatal-flaw-battery-ram-hd-sealed-like-an-ipod).

I just learned that today as well - that's brutal, because laptop batteries definitely lose their charge over time and since Macs tend to be used for years and years (compared to PCs). I think this is a pain point that will bite people after the fact. Hopefully Apple will offer a battery replacement service, but still, it's lame that they didn't allow for a removable battery. Serious road warriors tend to carry an extra battery they swap out or an extended battery...

[Macguy59]

I just learned that today as well - that's brutal, because laptop batteries definitely lose their charge over time and since Macs tend to be used for years and years (compared to PCs). I think this is a pain point that will bite people after the fact. Hopefully Apple will offer a battery replacement service, but still, it's lame that they didn't allow for a removable battery. Serious road warriors tend to carry an extra battery they swap out or an extended battery...

They do. $129 and you have to send it in to Apple. *Boggle*

[Jason Dunn]

Welcome to the site! It's a bit unfortunate that you decided to make your first post a flame, but that's ok, I welcome you anyway. :D

I am sorry, but I have a PC and never ever use the one that is there. Nor does my wife, my twins, nor does my Mom - well all have Dells

How do you off-load pictures from your camera then? Remember this is a laptop, so do you really want to carry either a cable from your camera to your laptop, or a memory card reader? Both are silly solutions - it should have a built-in memory card reader so you don't need to have an external accessory to get pictures from your camera to your laptop. If you never use the memory card reader on your laptop, good for you, but I sure do! And I need either a PCMCIA slot or an ExpressCard slot to load up images off a CompactFlash card. Apple is missing the entire DSLR semi-pro/pro market here, and a lot of photographers use Macs. I have a friend who has a Macbook and he has to carry a USB-based memory card reader in order to offload his photos and he hates having to carry an extra accessory. This Mac has the same problem.

Oh, you have have many devices - oh, perhaps they are all on your desk ? Buy a frekin' hub.

You want to carry a hub with you when you move the laptop? And do you never use the USB port on your laptop to recharge devices like your phone, MP3 player, etc? Having only one USB port is a hassle.

We keep all our email, documents, spead sheets and images at Either Google Docs or Picassa. Who needs a big hard drive?

If you think Firewire is only for hard drives, then you probably don't work with miniDV video cameras - they use Firewire to transfer video to the computer, and if this had a Firewire port it would make an excellent mobile video editing workstation. Again, a lot of video people use Macs, and when Apple omitted this port they basically said "Screw you!" to all the video camera owners...the exception being hard-drive based cameras that use USB 2.0 to transfer videos.

[Jason Dunn]

They do. $129 and you have to send it in to Apple. *Boggle*

Hmm. Well, it would suck having to be without your computer for a week, $129 is reasonable if only because replacement batteries for notebooks are around that price - so Apple is basically doing the install/swap for "free". So from that standpoint it's good, but not being able to just do it yourself is b-a-d.

[yslee]

That's right! I think it had to do with revenue recognition and delivering "hardware" in a different quarter than when it was sold.

What rubbish is that? Where did that come from? Last when I studied Sarbox back in university revenue recognition wasn't a main part of the act (it had a lot more to do with boardroom accountability, CONSISTENT reporting methodologies, conflict of interests to prevent AA-style situations, and avoiding funny off-balance sheet hanky-panky).

Next Apple apologist to quote Sarbox without giving the proper provision and reasoning gets a braining from me.

[Adam Krebs]

On the other hand, if you look at Microsoft releasing the Zune 2.0 firmware for Zune v.1 devices, it seems that it *is* possible.

Or...ahem... Apple TV Take 2.

The cost upgrades for both the iTouch and the use of 802.11 N are a huge rip-off.

[onlydarksets]

What rubbish is that? Where did that come from? Last when I studied Sarbox back in university revenue recognition wasn't a main part of the act (it had a lot more to do with boardroom accountability, CONSISTENT reporting methodologies, conflict of interests to prevent AA-style situations, and avoiding funny off-balance sheet hanky-panky).

Next Apple apologist to quote Sarbox without giving the proper provision and reasoning gets a braining from me.

Wow, what a completely inappropriate post. You've been around for awhile, so I would think that you would know better than to do that here.

Revenue recognition is the idea that revenue has to be reported in the quarter in which it was booked (had you paid attention in "university", you would have known that this is part of "CONSISTENT reporting methodologies"). If you sell something on the last day of the quarter, you have to count it in that quarter. "Sell" is also a tricky term - is it when someone charges you for the product, when it is delivered, some combination of the two?

The issue Apple had was that they sold the laptops in one quarter with the chip disabled. Enabling the chip, for some reason that I don't fully understand, changed the functionality of the product sufficiently that the "sale" completed in a different quarter. Because the revenue was already recognized in a previous quarter, SarbOx would have required Apple to restate its earnings for every laptop that "turned on" the 802.11n functionality in a different quarter. To avoid that, Apple "sold" the functionality separately, and recognized that revenue in the quarter in which the functionality was delivered, thus avoiding the restatement requirement.

Make no mistake - this was Apple covering Apple's behind. However, that's why they did it.

If you want a link, Google it yourself. I don't feel like completely indulging your idiocy.

[Jason Dunn]

Make no mistake - this was Apple covering Apple's behind. However, that's why they did it.

But then how do you explain them charging for functionality with the iPod Touch, yet doing a significant update on the Apple TV for free? :confused:

[onlydarksets]

I can't explain it. I thought it was accepted practice that software updates could be distributed for free (as opposed to 802.11n, which was disabled hardware). I'm guessing that the iTouch update is a business decision, not a compliance decision. Otherwise, why would they charge $20 instead of $2?

[Jason Dunn]

I'm guessing that the iTouch update is a business decision, not a compliance decision. Otherwise, why would they charge $20 instead of $2?

I'd agree with that. So why are we arguing about S-O in this thread then? :p

[onlydarksets]

I'd agree with that. So why are we arguing about S-O in this thread then? :p

Hey! You brought it up! And then the other guy (girl?) called me rubbish and an Apple fanboy. It was self-defense (not to mention remarkable self-control on my part, if I do say so myself)!

[Rocco Augusto]

:p Spoken like the fanboy you are.

***really long quote trimmed by mod JD***

I'm rubber, you're glue... :p;):D

(P.S. - This is being posted from my Ubuntu laptop ;) - I'm the worse fanboy in history :rolleyes:)

They do. $129 and you have to send it in to Apple. *Boggle*

I would only find this acceptable if there were on site technicians at the Apple store that you could go to to get it done the same day. There is just no reason why I should have to pay $1799 to be out of my laptop for 7-10+ days while I wait for Apple to change my battery because they feel the need to control EVERY aspects of their products. Though I have to admit, $129 isn't a terrible price for a new battery and having someone replace it for you.

[Jason Dunn]

Hey! You brought it up!

I cry foul! 'Twas Jaxbulls (http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/showpost.php?p=239801&postcount=2) who brought it up, not I. :D [I just gave it a name]

Anyway, the reality is that Apple hasn't, to my knowledge, used S-O to defend the $20 charge - it's pure conjecture on the part of Apple fans to defend Apple's move to charge for the update.

[yslee]

The issue Apple had was that they sold the laptops in one quarter with the chip disabled. Enabling the chip, for some reason that I don't fully understand, changed the functionality of the product sufficiently that the "sale" completed in a different quarter.

And that's where I simply don't buy it. Like I said, it's a rubbish excuse for Apple to charge incrementals based on software modifications. Revenue is/was recognised they sold the product as it was. Did something else shipped to the customer after the original sale modify the product such that the product advertised funcationality changed signifcantly? It's still a wireless LAN. I'm guessing that they were probably trying to test the waters of releasing hardware with incomplete firmware options and selling the firmware updates (hey, sounds like OS X updates).

Regarding consistency, Apple TV got a free update, and that's not in line with the other decisions discussed. The only accounting thing they have to keep in line with is probably a reporting thing; since the development adds to the COGS, charging those who want to add the apps inflates the touch's revenue a bit. Even then I'm not entirely convinced that's the best way to do it.

[yslee]

Hey! You brought it up! And then the other guy (girl?) called me rubbish and an Apple fanboy. It was self-defense (not to mention remarkable self-control on my part, if I do say so myself)!

It's also remarkably thin-skinned of you (now that's directed at you). I wasn't calling you rubbish (just the defence of using Sarbox) and neither did I call you an Apple fanboy. I was quite aware you were just explaining the rationale. It's still total bollocks though.

[onlydarksets]

My original "that's right!" comment was about the 802.11n, not the iTouch or AppleTV. I was recalling the rationale for that (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/17/apple_80211n_wifi_fee_update/), not responding to Jason's post suggesting that SarbOx might be a basis for the current round of gouging by Apple.

So, with that, my apologies for any misunderstanding on my part, and let's get this back on track.

[yslee]

Oh, and the big announcement of the Macbook Air. Meh. It's thin, and it is good-looking, but it just doesn't feel enough. Granted it's a C2D in a really tiny package... but meh. I think everyone else has mentioned all its limitations, and I'll agree with Jason that it's going to be quite a niche product. Except that because it's Apple, it'll sell well, regardless.