Jason, You're Wrong! [Archive] - Thoughts Media Forums

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David Tucker

01-04-2008, 09:13 PM

Graham posted on AnythingButiPod.com a few weeks ago several things he did NOT want to see in the Zune. Jason posted his rebuttal to that, disagreeing with most everything that Graham wrote. I’m here to back up Graham. Sorry Jason, but I think you’re just wrong on most of this! (He said if I wrote this he’d cut my pay in half but I’m willing to make that sacrifice to bring true clarity to the issue. See what I do for you guys?) Let’s take a look at this issue by issue. <div style="PAGE-BREAK-AFTER: always"> </div> <ul> <li>Clock/Alarm – Why? ALARM? I don’t know how to break it to the alarm crowd, but an alarm without speakers is pretty useless. And a Zune has no built in speakers. So to use a Zune as an alarm clock you’d have to have a special set up for it. I guess you could do it with a speaker dock but this really seems like overkill. And if there was much demand for this we’d get a speaker dock with a built in clock, which I wouldn’t mind. Having a clock wouldn’t be awful but I’d prefer to be able to turn it off. I have my phone with me at all times and we live in a world where we’re surrounded by the time. The Zune is probably the last place I’d want to look. </li> <li>Games – No. Just no. If Microsoft comes out with a fully functional portable gaming platform that incorporates the Zune into I might take a look. But the Zune itself doesn’t have enough inputs to be able to play many games on it and I really like the clean lines it has. No more buttons please. It has the perfect number for me. (No touch screen please either unless you’re giving me the option of not having one too!)  Until then, I'll very happily use my DS for portable gaming. </li> <li>Web Browser - I have a WM6 phone. It has a web browser. The experience is pretty good but I got my Zune partially because I didn’t want to have the web and my music competing for resources! I hit play on my Zune and if I want to fiddle on the web for whatever reason, I pick up my Wing. Convergence is nice but our portable devices are not powerful enough to do many things at once. Music is one of those things that I often want in the background while I’m doing something else. Like typing this rebuttal. </li> <li>Voice Recording – I wouldn’t be completely opposed to this. I’d never use it but I think this function falls squarely in the confines of what a digital media player can do. Record sound. Play sound. Sounds pretty like it fits to me. I’d say of everything here, this would be a rather simple and valuable thing to add. Even if it has no value for me. </li> <li>FM Recording – Seriously if you want this go get a Zune Pass. Don’t be cheap! Yeah, I know you can record talk shows too. Could be done I guess but it seems really pointless to me. </li> <li>Bluetooth – Ok, this is the one major area that I agree with Jason. I think Bluetooth would be a great idea. Yes, it would require you to have another device to charge. I already charge 3 or 4 devices so to me, what’s another one? Its not like we’d eliminate the headphone jack! Until there were plenty of quality of headsets out there it would get limited use anyway. But as soon as either the iPod or Zune were to come with this feature I can almost guarantee that that problem would go away really fast. </li> <li>Touch Screen – I use my touch screen on my Wing and I love it. But I use it with a stylus. I actually prefer that to using my fingers. I HATE looking at screens with finger prints on them. Makes me insane(r). The touch pad we have right now is really nice and seems like a best of both worlds to me. We have tactile touch control. What more could you want? For all the people who love to navigate the iPhone or iPod touch with their fingers, I can introduce them to someone who had just as much fun with the Zune Pad. It’s the best thing since the scroll wheel! </li></ul>

Janak Parekh

01-04-2008, 09:40 PM

Sorry, David, but you're wrong on the clock/alarm bit. Here are two simple uses cases that make both worthwhile:

1. Clock -- in the gym, I'd like to know what time it is. My watch and my cell phone are in my locker. I can quickly glance at my iPod and the time is discreetly embedded in the title.

2. Alarm -- when I take the train to Long Island to my parents' house, I often like to take a nap with the music playing. On the iPhone, I can set an alarm for 30 minutes. It'll nicely stop playing the music and will play an alarm. Of course, it so turns out the iPhone also has a speaker, making it more useful, but it can be useful with headphones too.

While #2 can be debated, there are all sorts of subtle yet simple ways one can embed a clock, and it doesn't really increase the complexity of the device. I'm not buying that argument.

--janak

Sven Johannsen

01-04-2008, 09:43 PM

Bluetooth – Ok, this is the one major area that I agree with Jason. I think Bluetooth would be a great idea. Yes, it would require you to have another device to charge. I already charge 3 or 4 devices so to me, what’s another one? Its not like we’d eliminate the headphone jack! Until there were plenty of quality of headsets out there it would get limited use anyway. But as soon as either the iPod or Zune were to come with this feature I can almost guarantee that that problem would go away really fast.

I disagree here. There are plenty of great BT headsets out there. ;) The problem is media players to use them with. No, I don't count darn near every cell phone out there. The Zune could have been the first, to have it built in. Shame they missed that boat.

David Tucker

01-04-2008, 10:04 PM

David Tucker

01-04-2008, 10:07 PM

I disagree here. There are plenty of great BT headsets out there. ;) The problem is media players to use them with. No, I don't count darn near every cell phone out there. The Zune could have been the first, to have it built in. Shame they missed that boat.

I'd be interested to hear what they are. I only know of a few and not many that get very good reviews. ;)

Janak Parekh

01-04-2008, 10:21 PM

I don't know what you do at the gym but I find having a sport watch on when I work out is pretty useful and I've never been in a gym without at least one clock prominently visible on the wall. If its a big gym, usually more.
I don't like watches personally when I'm working out; I have only an occasional need to spot the clock. Yes, I could use the wall clock, but it's not always where I am. Is it utterly critical? No, but I find it very handy on a regular basis.

--janak

goodbeershow

01-05-2008, 12:15 AM

Clock/Alarm would not hurt to implement. Some people may find it useful.

Bluetooth is very very nice. I use a woot acquired Philips bluetooth headset with my Zune 30 via dongle. It is also married to my cellphone.

The whole divx/xvid update to the xbox360 and the new firmware for the Zune 30 starts making Microsoft look like the "hip" company. I love the navigation of the Zune. Microsoft needs to be a leader and not a follower.

JeffreyT

Dyvim

01-05-2008, 03:12 AM

I have to disagree with you on the web browsing at least on the basis of limited resources. The iPhone and iPod Touch demonstrate that a portable media player can do both simultaneously without issue. (To bad the same cannot be said of my HTC Advantage but that is another story.) In fact I'm rocking some tunes now as I type this reply on my iPhone.

And regarding fingerprints and touchscreens: my iPhone gets constantly covered with fingerprints but they're invisible when the backlight is on and hence are not an issue. Zune 2's big beautiful glass screen is just begging to be a touchscreen.

Rocco Augusto

01-05-2008, 04:16 AM

(He said if I wrote this he’d cut my pay in half but I’m willing to make that sacrifice to bring true clarity to the issue. See what I do for you guys?)

When did we start getting paid?!?!?! :D

I actually agree with you 100% David (though I would love a clock), especially when it comes to games and a web browser. The only reason the web browser works with the iPhone is because the screen can function as a keyboard. While the idea of having a web browser on our Zunes is fun to think about, in practice actually using it would be painfully annoying.

Rocco Augusto

01-05-2008, 04:24 AM

I disagree here. There are plenty of great BT headsets out there. ;) The problem is media players to use them with. No, I don't count darn near every cell phone out there. The Zune could have been the first, to have it built in. Shame they missed that boat.

I concur. Right now I am using the Motorola MOTOROKR S9 and I love them. They're tiny and sound great, though they are not as good as my Ultimate Ears headphones ;)

Sven Johannsen

01-05-2008, 07:33 AM

I concur. Right now I am using the Motorola MOTOROKR S9 and I love them. They're tiny and sound great, though they are not as good as my Ultimate Ears headphones ;)OK so your $120 S9s don't sound as good as the $400 Ultimate Ears, big surprise. ;)

I have had very good luck with the old HP BT headsets that they discontinued, but Logitech released as Apple ones. (Logitech made the ones for HP) My big HT820 Motorolas work fine. My favorite setup though is a couple of systems that have a BT receiver, that you can plug your own headset or headphones into. Not strictly wireless then but it lets you manage the wires better and can interface with a phone as well as a player independently. One such is at http://www.mobileplanet.com/p.aspx?i=154782 and there are a number of similar items in the BT accessories there. You could even plug your Ultimate Ears into these.

Typically what I have found, is not an issue with the headset end but rather with the device transmitting. I have very little trouble when the BT TX is an independent device such as seen here. http://www.globalsat.co.uk/product_pages/product_bta830.htm Of course you don't get any control but volume. The Tx plugs into the device headphone jack and broadcasts A2DP. The skips and garbage appear to be more a function of the capability of the device, phone, laptop, and the BT drivers on it.

Jason Dunn

01-05-2008, 09:39 AM

My, my, my - this is all so entertaining! :D

randalllewis

01-05-2008, 06:19 PM

I, too, am not interested in turning the Zune into the iTouch and would not be interested in most of these "features" being added. I can make an argument for a clock/alarm function because it would allow for timed uses of the Zune. I often listen while vegging out and having the Zune stop and tell me when I've listened for a set period could be helpful. I know other people go to sleep with their Zunes and would like to have them shut off after a set time.

I also would like to be able to purchase music from the Marketplace wirelessly. I understand there may be some issues to resolve with navigation around the website, but I have confidence the Zune team can creatively resolve those.

Rocco Augusto

01-05-2008, 11:32 PM

OK so your $120 S9s don't sound as good as the $400 Ultimate Ears, big surprise. ;)

I wish I had the $400 Ultimate Ear headphones :D

Right now I'm using the Ultimate Ears Metro.fi wired headphones and they were only about $70. I love my stereo Bluetooth headphones but they never sound as rich as my regular wired headphones.

jeff119

01-06-2008, 02:30 AM

a point could be made for games, nothing too complicated, games like solitaire or tetris would be awesome on the zune. bluetooth would be interesting. web browser isn't needed, but maybe to buy songs wirelessly. here's a way that it could work, say you are listening to the radio and here a song you like, you can click the center button and select download this song. simple and easy. ;)

Sven Johannsen

01-06-2008, 09:43 PM

I wish I had the $400 Ultimate Ear headphones :D

Right now I'm using the Ultimate Ears Metro.fi wired headphones and they were only about $70. I love my stereo Bluetooth headphones but they never sound as rich as my regular wired headphones.

Rocco, you need to splurge $20 on one of these http://www.semsons.com/glbtblhe.html I have a set and I think it sounds as good as any pair of headphones that I plug in to them. Of course, I'm an old fart, so my audio assesment is questionable. Would be interesting to see if your Ultimate Ears, plugged into this, would be acceptable, just as good, or degraded, compared to plugged in directly. You could compare it with whatever you are using to drive your S9s. I get a feeling that when a company makes a combined BT/audio output device, they may skimp on the audio output part a bit.

David Tucker

01-07-2008, 07:38 AM

And regarding fingerprints and touchscreens: my iPhone gets constantly covered with fingerprints but they're invisible when the backlight is on and hence are not an issue. Zune 2's big beautiful glass screen is just begging to be a touchscreen.

Totally and absolutely disagree 200%. Everyone makes this claim. I was visiting my brother and was playing with his iPhone. Sorry...but the fingerprints on the screen made me want to constantly wipe it off. They distort the light coming through and give it a rainbow effect. Maybe you don't notice them because the ENITRE screen looks like that. No matter what the touch screen is that I'm using...I'm always cleaning it be it my Wing or my DS. I keep a cloth handy. Drives me absolutely nuts.

Dyvim

01-07-2008, 07:55 AM

Everyone makes this claim.
Which suggests that most people agree with me that fingerprints are not an issue given the right screen. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point.
Drives me absolutely nuts.
Unfortunately, you may have to get used to it in the future. I bet Zune v3 has a touch interface. The next major version of Windows Mobile will have a big focus on finger-based touch interface. Will be interesting to see if Zune also chooses to go this route.

David Tucker

01-07-2008, 08:09 AM

By everyone I mean everyone who buys an iPhone who then tries to convince others its the "One True Way" (tm) ;)

But if I went by what everyone said I'd also believe that I should hate subscription music and that not having exchange support would be a fair tradeoff to get the iPhone.

'Everyone' isn't always right...especially when they're trying to justify their expensive gadget. What better way than to overlook minor flaws? ;)

Dyvim

01-07-2008, 03:03 PM

Everyone' isn't always right...especially when they're trying to justify their expensive gadget. What better way than to overlook minor flaws? ;)

Touché. That would be just as ridiculous as trying to justify why it's a good thing that a not inexpensive PMP doesn't include more features.;)