Help Me Pick My New Toy

[Chris Gohlke]

http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/cgg-newtoys-11292007.jpg

I'm looking for an ultra-portable device for accessing the internet and doing other light computing. I've narrowed my choices to the following: Nokia N800 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MK4GGM/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2HR70G1GXJ5FR&colid=2DO7B125W95NM), Nokia N810 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Y4AH3C/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2NAV3IAFSGRY3&colid=2DO7B125W95NM), iPod Touch (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JO3Y1O/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1QN3PZ1W7TERK&colid=2DO7B125W95NM), and ASUS Eee (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Y33CVM/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2K71USMZ8IT7F&colid=2DO7B125W95NM). The N800 is currently my favorite. It is the cheapest and has a nice sized screen with a good resolution, but, it lacks a physical keyboard. The N810 adds the keyboard, but also doubles the price and does not add anything else I really want. The Touch is small, sexy, and has a great interface, but would not be as customizable as the Nokias without hacking it, the screen is smaller and has a lower resolution, and it has no physical keyboard. The Eee is a "real" computer, has USB ports, and is probably the most customizable, but it is relatively large and I already have a 3.6 pound portable, so while this would be smaller, I'm not sure that the size difference is enough to really change how I would use it. Interestingly I had an order in for the Eee a few weeks ago, but canceled it when I decided the screen was really to small and low resolution for the device. Am I missing another options? I'd love your opinions.

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

This is really tied down to what you want to do. Internet and light computing? If it's surfing some simple websites and viewing some documents the Nokia n800 is fine. But if your needs get heavier, then you'll probably need the bigger machine.

What I'm trying to say here is that you have to be very clear of what you want and to see if they fit within the device's limitations. I'll say this right off though; the touch is probably not what you want. It's good for light internet surfing and little computing work. Hacking the touch is somewhat fiddly. Whatever ease of use and "It Just Works" mantra of Apple flies out of the window once you get past Apple's OOB markers.

[Chris Gohlke]

By simple websites, are you suggesting that it won't handle more than that? From what I have read, it comes with Opera, but you can download a Mozilla browser for it that supports Ajax and other advanced web features, so I am expecting that the web experience if anything should be better than the Touch since the screen is larger and has better resolution. The built in text editor would probably suffice for my needs, but it would be great if I could run a version of Open Office, but I've been unable to find anything on-line as to whether this is possible.

[Felix Torres]

I notice an abscence of Windows mobile devices.
This on purpose?
If not:
http://www.htcamerica.net/products/advantage7501/default.html

http://www.toshiba-europe.com/mobile/Mobile2Live.aspx?WCI=PageNavigate&WCE=&WCU=%3BLANG%3D1%3BPID%3D166%3BTYP%3D17%3BPNT%3D0%3BSEC%3D2

A friend of mine has this and its really good:
http://www.etencorp.com/products/Communication/X500+.php

A notch up in price but with big-time boost in capability:

http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/tech4less/NP-Q1-V000?mv_pc=cnet-pg

http://www.mobileplanet.com/d.aspx?i=158624

When its time for me to replace my Tablet PC, I'll start looking for the replacement with the Fujitsu and its bigger sibling but that Samsung sure is tempting.

G'luck.

[Chris Gohlke]

Not on purpose, but none really seemed to have the bang for buck, and I don't want a phone.

The HTC, Fujitsu, and Samsung are double the price of my highest price option and quadruple my preferred option. I had considered the Samsung when it was on Woot for $579 a couple of weeks back.

The Glowfiish and Toshiba would be OK if I wanted a phone, and to get an unlocked one is significantly more than the options I listed and the screens are smaller and I don't really see any other advantages.

[Phronetix]

For what it's worth, the Touch is very easy to hack (jailbreak), has a screen that takes all the abuse I have given it and still looks flawless, and is the best small internet device I have used, period.

And yes, I have an Apple bias, but I had used an MDA Vario until this past month when I bought an iPhone.

A nice touch (no pun intended) that is part of the Notes application on the iPhone is that you have one click emailing of the current note. When you jailbreak the Touch, you can add both the Notes and the Mail apps from the iPhone to your Touch.

Dennis

[Chris Gohlke]

I REALLY wish there was an Apple store nearby. None of the local stores have them hooked up so you can try it. If I could play with the browser for a few minutes, it would probably help quite a bit.

[Phronetix]

Yes, hands on is very helpful.

You could try to purchase from Costco, who have an outstanding return policy.

D

[Chris Gohlke]

We don't have a Costco. We do have a Sam's club, I just hate buying things just to try them out unless I'm pretty sure I'm going to want to keep it. Otherwise, I feel like I'm abusing the system.

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

Chris, the N8x0 won't handle Flash 8/9, I recall. With the proliferation of Flash websites nowadays that might be a problem.

I also know there's a version of Gnumeric (spreadsheet) that'll work on the N8x0 devices. I'm not sure if there's a word processor (they don't rank highly on my list of apps), sorry.

If you could drum up some usage scenarios I can help better. I've used the N800 and currently own a touch, so I have an idea of how the devices work. I haven't had the chance to try the other two, but the n810 should be easy to extrapolate from, and the Eee PC should be treated as a tiny notebook with limited hard disk space and a very customised and user-friendly OS. The only thing I don't know is how much I can add to it easily.

I use my own touch for light surfing, but if I want to do anything more than that it becomes a PITA. I mean, while doing a SSH to the touch to copy files isn't hard, it certainly is a few more steps. I mean, come on. I have to log in to my touch acting as a server in order to copy files? On top of that the current list of apps is more PDA-ish than Computer-ish. There is also no way to add a keyboard currently.

In contrast I'd say the Linux devices Chris has picked out are far easier to use if you want something more extensible.

Finally, this is getting bloody tiresome. When someone wants advice, give proper advice. By that, I mean stop and consider the user's needs and wants, and not push your agenda or bias or whatever. What the heck do you get out of it if someone buys and uses your favourite thingmajig? Do you get a freakin' comission or something? Really. Help the right target, and that is the user asking for help or advice, not the bloody company or product you're evangelising.

[Phronetix]

Finally, this is getting bloody tiresome. When someone wants advice, give proper advice. By that, I mean stop and consider the user's needs and wants, and not push your agenda or bias or whatever. What the heck do you get out of it if someone buys and uses your favourite thingmajig? Do you get a freakin' comission or something? Really. Help the right target, and that is the user asking for help or advice, not the bloody company or product you're evangelising.

Ease up on the throttle, please.

With all due respect, Chris asked for "opinions".

[Chris Gohlke]

According to Nokia's support website, Flash 9 support was added back in the April update. It also sounds like the OS for the new 810 can be installed on the 800 for a full refresh of the product but I'm not sure if that is supported or just a hack.

My usage scenario would be 95% portable web browser and using Yahoo mail. A little bit of music and movies, and I'd like the ability to be able to take notes, etc. The touch would probably do most of what I want right out of the box and do it nicely. It is probably my number 2 to the N800, so I do appreciate the feedback on it. The things pushing the N800 are the larger, higher res screen which I think would lead to a better browsing experience as most site will render adequately at a width of 800. Plus the N800 would give me more options if I wanted to do more with it later. I'd also prefer not to have to install iTunes since I already have a Zune. If I want to move media to the N800, I just need to copy it to an SD card, easy as pie.

Ideally, I'd love to try the two out side by side. I really need to live in a bigger city!

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

Web browsing on the N800 certainly is no slouch. It's actually better than the touch in many ways, depending on the site you visit. I wasn't aware that Nokia added Flash 9 support; last I checked the device just wouldn't load certain flash files.

(just checked, the update was released in the 2nd half of the year)

The touch's advantage is web browsing works very well especially given its small screen. On the much larger n800 screen there's a lot less scrolling to do, so the less smooth and slick scrolling on the n800 isn't that big a deal. And Mozilla on the N800 (if possible) is definitely a much better option than Safari on the touch.

Despite the great user experience, the touch will choke on some large websites. Anything bigger than 1-2 mb in my experience and it starts to slow down, and even crash. I didn't have the n800 crash on me, but it also did get slow. Again, it's made more bearable by the bigger screen, so you scroll less.

And yes, you'll definitely need iTunes. I was looking for a 3rd party solution but there aren't any for the touch at that time, and I don't think there's one still.

I got the touch because I wanted a more media-centric device with some good web-browsing on the side. Your situation is the opposite of mine, so I do think the n800 is a better fit.

Where do you live? Surprised you can't get a demo of either unit.

[Chris Gohlke]

Tallahassee, Florida. It is an OK sized town, but the closest real city is Jacksonville at 2.5 hours and then Orlando and Tampa at 4+.

A few places have a touch that you can hold, but without it being powered and having an internet connection available, it is sort of worthless except for feeling how thin it is.

[Felix Torres]

Not on purpose, but none really seemed to have the bang for buck, and I don't want a phone.


I hear ya there; I noticed most of the candidates are PDA-sized and these days phoneless PDAs are quickly becoming a vanishing breed.
There seems to be a recognized need for *something* between cell-phones and mini-laptops but its kinda early in the game and most of the stuff out there is on the high-end of the scale. At least on these shores, anyway.

The only *new* product I've heard of in the $500-range is the upcoming iPaq 210.
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/215348-215348-64929-314903-215384-3544499.html
And that's not yet on the market.

Things may change next year but right now it seems as pretty much everybody but Nokia and HP has vacated the (personal as opposed to corporate) pocket computing space. :-(

[Phronetix]

We don't have a Costco. We do have a Sam's club, I just hate buying things just to try them out unless I'm pretty sure I'm going to want to keep it. Otherwise, I feel like I'm abusing the system.

You make a point, Chris. The reason I disagree that this is abuse is because very few retailers offer the sort of real world environment and access to products in which to make a proper assessment before purchase. It is frustrating, and unfair. I feel that I have a right to be satisfied, so I am happy to purchase and try it out in such a situation. And if I am not fully satisfied with my purchase I return it and explain honestly why I am not. No one has ever said my reasons (not small enough, too slow, not preferred over another purchase etc) were insufficient. It is my money. I want to be satisfied.

Just my two cents.

[Chris Gohlke]

I'm going to ask around to see if any of my friends, or friends of friends locally happened to grab one yet.

Meanwhile, I just read this review of the N800 http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showthread.php?p=534830&posted=1 and it just about has me sold. Now, Amazon, just needs to get them back in stock.

[Chris Gohlke]

And here is an interesting look at the N810 vs the Eee

http://www.ultramobilegeek.com/2007/11/asus-eee-701-vs-nokia-n810-linux-fight.html

Edit: Forgot the link :oops:

[RichL]

A friend of mine lent me an N800 for a month and I was really hesitant to give it back. The massive advantage of the N8x0 for me was how simple it was to use my phone as a Bluetooth modem. I've got a phone with HSDPA and an unlimited data package and so I never needed the N800's WiFi.

The screen is a fantastic resolution too. It makes browsing websites very easy.

My biggest gripe was the lack of a physical keyboard. The hand writing recognition didn't work very well for me and using the virtual keyboard was fiddly.

[Vincent Ferrari]

I'd say go with the EEE. You're probably safest with that one because you can hack the hell out of it and as your needs change, it can easily change with you. The N810 would be my second choice (don't even bother with the N800) for its keyboard and customizability.

The touch is only an option if you're primary looking for a PMP that does other things, but I get the impression you're looking for more of a data device than an iPod.

That's just my opinion, of course, but I've been lusting after the EEE and N810 for a few weeks now and it isn't getting any easier as time goes by :-)

[RichL]

You've got me tempted to buy a Nokia N810 as a Christmas present to myself. :(

Looking around, it's very expensive compared to the N800. Expansys have the N800 for £182 (~$360 inc. tax) but the N810 is £300 (~$600) even on eBay!

[Chris Gohlke]

http://www.mobileplanet.com/ has them for $249 and $479 respectively.

Here are the differences between the two per Wikipedia -

The Nokia N810 has much in common with the N800 and maemo 4.0 (Chinook) will operate on both, but there are some significant differences between the two. Here are the new features in the Nokia N810:

* Sliding, backlit keyboard
* Front-facing webcam
* Ambient Light Sensor
* Integrated GPS
* 2GB integrated internal storage and one MiniSD card slot
* Sunlight readable transflective display.

The following were removed from the N800 design for the N810

* Two full-sized SD card slots
* Pop-out, rotating webcam
* FM Radio tuner


The only new feature that interests me is the keyboard, otherwise I prefer the webcam and two full sized SD slots the old one offers. If they were priced close to the same, I'd probably go for the 810, but being almost double the price is the clincher for me, since it mentally bumps it into a new expense catagory.

[rock]

I having been considering the same thing, and have roughly the same usage, however, I'm currently a Treo 680 user as well. So, the Nokia 8x0 are attractive to me since I've read that they may be able to support some of my Palm apps.

[Phronetix]

I've followed this thread throughout, and have a couple of comments.

As Vincent mentioned, the Touch is not powerful enough for your needs. So, we can eliminate that. The Asus is just too large to be truly portable. The 800 lacks the physical keyboard. The 810 seems to have what you need and want.

It does appear that you are leaning that way, if not already purchasing as I write :wink:. I cannot think of anything else on the market now that matches your needs in the same way. I wonder, though, and this is why I ultimately went with the iPhone, are you going to regret also toting around a phone with this device. Will you wish you had an all-in-one device? I realize this opens up another can of worms. Just a thought.

Dennis

[Chris Gohlke]

I read a few more reviews that pushed me towards the N810. The big feature difference was the GPS, which I felt I didn't need since I've already got one in my car and I have a very good handheld that I use for geocaching. In the end, I liked it though because in a pinch, this device could substitue for all the separate devices I carry in my bag.

Also, the 810 does boost the performance also and I do think I'd end up regretting not having the keyboard. Plus the 810 is smaller. I didn't realize how small it was until I cut out a mock up. Compared to my Zune, it is a hair thinner and only approximately .25 inches bigger in each dimension. Finally, while it looks like most of the software improvements can be added to the N800, everything is preloaded and already updated on the N810, so it is worth something of my sanity to be able to play out of the box.

Now I just have to wait, nobody seems to have them yet, but the great people over at Mobile Planet (www.mobileplanet.com) are helping me get my hands on one soon, which will of course be followed by a review.

Thanks to everyone for their help!

[Chris Gohlke]

Oh, and no, I won't regret not having a phone. I would not want to HAVE to carry something this size all the time. My dream phone is compact and simple with a great antenna and battery life. If I want extra connectivity, I could use this with a Bluetooth tether....but let me get this in hand first. :)

[Chris Gohlke]

One other thing just came to mind and it is the one thing missing from all these products - Slingbox support. But I guess you can't quite have it all unless you are willing to go bigger and lay out the bucks for something like the OQO.

[BuzzLightyear]

I've spent £100's on various phones to try and get that freedom, currently using a Tytn II but although I can use it as a phone, IM and email its never gonna replace a laptop regardless of size or form factor.

The Eee is doing everything for me at the moment I've stuck XP on it and it does everything I need, Office (The Open variety), Outlook exchange, watching movies, running Sling Player and even quite happily plays a few old games I used to play (Quake, Mame etc).

I get all my info and follow the chat on www.eeeuser.com - might be worth you having a look there to get a wide opinion on the Eee as either Unix or Windows flavours, it certainly convinced me that I wanted one of the little guys.

Buzz

[Chris Gohlke]

I did SERIOUSLY consider the Eee but I already have an Ultra-light laptop - http://www.averatec.com/products/portable/featherlight/1000Series.asp running XP. The more I thought about it the Eee would be top on the list if my Averatec died. In then end, I'm looking for a new form factor altogether. Something pocketable that will do 90% of what I would use a small laptop for. So while very cool, it really wasn't giving me anything new other than a somewhat smaller version of what I use now. That said, had the screen been 10 inches, and higher resolution, I would not have canceled my original order, but I think I'd still end up wanting the N810.

[Chris Gohlke]

To anyone with the 810, here are two questions I can't find answered anywhere.

1. The specs for the N810 show that they have added USB OTG. Have you tested it? I’d love to know how it works, if it supports a mass storage profile that would seal the deal for me on getting the 810 versus the 800.
2. What is the material of the screen and what method is used for the touchscreen. IE is it a glass screen like the touch or one of the old school screens like on PDA’s with kind of a soft plasticy feel. Also, how scratch resistant is it?