HD "War" Not Even Close to Being Over: Paramount & DreamWorks Choose HD DVD

[Jeremy Charette]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN2028331720070820?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews' target='_blank'>http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN2028331720070820?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Viacom Inc's Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc said on Monday they will release their DVD titles exclusively on HD DVD, the high-definition digital movie format whose sales have lagged those of rival Blu-Ray so far this year. Paramount, which distributes DreamWorks Animation's DVDs, settled on HD DVD after determining that the format offers better quality and lower-cost players and lower manufacturing costs, the studios said in a statement...Paramount's first releases under the exclusive HD DVD program include "Blades of Glory" on August 28 and the summer blockbusters "Transformers" and "Shrek the Third," due for release later this fall."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/images/306168.jpg" /><br /><br />Amidst all the chatter of the HD "War" being over, in comes Paramount and DreamWorks with the announcement that going forward, they will be releasing their library on HD DVD <i>only</i>. This is an even bigger deal than it seems at first glance. Paramount owns what is one of the three biggest franchises on the planet: Star Trek. That alone will be enough to sway many people to HD DVD. Combine the popularity of that series of movies with this year's Transformers flick, and you've got the makings of some serious sales numbers. This fight is far from over, and I'd suggest picking up some HD hardware soon. No matter which you prefer, Blu-Ray or HD DVD, if you aren't enjoying one or the other you're definitely missing out!

[Felix Torres]

This is an even bigger deal than it seems at first glance.

Correct.
The announcement is coming out of Paramount but in the fine print it mentions MTV, Nickelodeon and other poperties. So the proper impact is that *VIACOM* is going HD-DVD exclusive. That's a lot of stuff.
Makes you wonder what do they know that we don't know (yet)?
Is Wal-Mart coming off the fence?
I can't think of much else that would cause this kinda swing...
(Except for Disney jumping and they're too committed to user-hostile forms of DRM to be too comfy with HD-DVD.)
At least that should spike any more "fire sale" talk for, oh, I dunno... 10 minutes? ;-)

[Felix Torres]

Check this one:
http://www.betanews.com/article/HD_DVD_Were_Not_at_War_with_Bluray/1187630265

[Jeff_R]

Thanks for the shot aimed at me, Felix. :D I know this forum is heavily HD-DVD oriented, but being friendly to visitors never hurt, did it? :D

What's behind this? A rumoured $150 million payout. Again, just a rumour, but that seems to be the way this game is being played. Basically, my reaction to this was "Oh great." I don't care one way or another; I've got 15 Blu-ray titles versus 1300 DVDs. If I have to replace the Blu-ray with HD-DVD, I won't shed a tear. But I want this to be over.

Every sales figure, every industry analyst showed this largely being over by Christmas. Now we've got a formerly neutral studio going exclusive. It looks like the person who is right is Jason; we'll probably end up with both formats floating around, which will mean less choice for consumers. Choices within titles? Sure, pick your hi-def poison. However, titles in format-neutral studios will take up 3 shelf spaces, so fewer titles on shelves; that means less choice over all and less opportunity for shelf-space for the smaller titles. Other people may love the fact that a whole shelf will need to be devoted to the single-disc P&amp;S/single-disc WS/2 disc special edition/special edition with helmet/HD-DVD/Blu-ray, but personally, I'm not so wild about it.

Also, increased cost/lower sales for studios, in that some people will buy neither format, waiting for a war that may not end, and some people will only own Blu-ray/HD, so they won't buy titles on opposing formats.

Short format wars useful? Sure; drives down costs, drives innovation. But I don't think anyone honestly believes that this is overall good news except for people who invested heavily in HD-DVD. For the industry as a whole, it's bad news, and also for consumers.

[Jeremy Charette]

The announcement is coming out of Paramount but in the fine print it mentions MTV, Nickelodeon and other poperties. So the proper impact is that *VIACOM* is going HD-DVD exclusive. That's a lot of stuff.

I suspect this decision is due in no small part to the fact that VIACOM has a strong working relationship with Microsoft, via. Media Center and the Xbox Live Video Marketplace. Now that Disney has partnered with Microsoft via. the XBLVM, I wonder if they will jump to HD DVD soon as well?

And Jeff, you're right, this "war" isn't good for consumers. Hopefully a few more big shifts one way or another by the major studios will put an end to it. And soon. Though I prefer HD DVD, I frankly don't care which way it goes at this point.

[Jeremy Charette]

Short format wars useful? Sure; drives down costs, drives innovation.

HD DVD is doing just that. Paramount even made a point to mention it in their press release.

"Paramount, which distributes DreamWorks Animation's DVDs, settled on HD DVD after determining that the format offers better quality and lower-cost players and lower manufacturing costs, the studios said in a statement..."

[Jeff_R]

Short format wars useful? Sure; drives down costs, drives innovation.

HD DVD is doing just that. Paramount even made a point to mention it in their press release.

"Paramount, which distributes DreamWorks Animation's DVDs, settled on HD DVD after determining that the format offers better quality and lower-cost players and lower manufacturing costs, the studios said in a statement..."

Well, the "better quality" is just marketing speak. I haven't heard anyone who suggests that there is any significant quality difference between the two formats, aside from minor transfer differences that can flip depending on the title.

Now FOX (="+MGM") is responding with a renewed commitment to Blu-ray and is fast-tracking a press release about their releases. This will just keep getting worse.

[Jeremy Charette]

I'd agree on the "quality" part of their statement, but it's a fact that HD DVD players and discs cost less to produce.

But yeah, this is just getting ugly. It's going to be a looooong three months to Black Friday. (Yes folks, Black Friday is just 95 days away.)

[Jeremy Charette]

Now FOX (="+MGM") is responding with a renewed commitment to Blu-ray and is fast-tracking a press release about their releases. This will just keep getting worse.

Actually, FOX was part of the Blu-Ray Consortium, and pushed heavily for all that DRM Blu-Ray uses.

Strange thing is though, they haven't released a single Blu-Ray title since April. :roll:

[Jeff_R]

Jeremy, I know about Fox; I was pointing out that Fox/MGM are responding to the Paramount announcement, and likely stepping up their releases. Hence, the "war" is escalating.

Eh... I think I need to stop fighting against the tide here. I'll just accept this is an HD-DVD website and head for other pastures. Only so much ganging up one guy can take. :D

[Jeremy Charette]

Hey Jeff, sorry if it seems like we're ganging up on you, I think it's all good natured ribbing (at least it is in my case). I like HD DVD for a bunch of reasons, but I'd be perfectly happy with Blu-Ray. I really don't think there's any discernable difference between the two. I just think HD DVD is going to win the price war, and therefore win over the masses.

So please, stick around, I've enjoyed the debate.

[Felix Torres]

Strange thing is though, they haven't released a single Blu-Ray title since April. :roll:

You hadn't heard?
Fox put all HD releases on hold until BD+ players ship (BD 1.3?) later this year.
The breaking of AACS was the trigger.
As if we needed further proof of what it is the DRM-three (Sony, Fox, and Disney) see in BD, right?

And, BTW, MGM is owned by Sony, not FOX.
(That might have a wee bit to do with any MGM or Columbia Announcements that might be forthcoming.)

As for comparing the formats, try this:

Video data formats supported: identical; MPEG2, H.264, VC-1.
Audio formats supported: identical.
Player outputs supported: identical.

So what's different?
Interactivity: HD-DVD *requires* players to be able to decode two 1080p video streams simultaneously; HDI generally recognized as faster, better than BD's Java-based scripting.
HD-DVDs are stamped out at any plant that makes DVDs and can switch back and forth between batch jobs
HD-DVD has always required support for mandatory copy
BD disks require separate manufacturing facility devoted solely to BD disks and can only be stamped out using a metal foil available only from Sony
BD disks offer studios a second layer of copy protection, BD+, on top of AACS
BD disks cost more to manufacture
BD players are more expensive but offer less features

Which is better?
Depends on what matters to you, no?

Since I own no stock in either camp I literally don't care who wins.
Baseball metaphor: I don't live in Kansas City; I don't live in NYC.
But when the Yankees play the Royals I root for the Royals more often than the Yankees. Cause, absent a vested interest, its more fun to see the Yankees fall flat on their collective face. (Something about their $200 million payroll just grates on me.)

Ditto here; I don't particularly care for Sony's arrogance and stampede tactics that continually proclaim BD has *already* won, even before BD shipped a single disk. So, absent a vested interest, I'm contrarian enough to enjoy seeing Sony and its fans face up to the reality of competition and opponents that refuse to roll over and play dead.

Since neither disk is better than the other in a way that seriously impacts sales (most consumers don't care that BD+ allows a Google-like deactivation of their disk-based content or that HDI is "better" than the BD solution), the real discriminator is going to be hardware prices. And there I have a slight preference: the lower the price, the better.

So let the "war" rage on.
Let the big multinational keep spending money.
Cause I'm not.
Not yet.

[Felix Torres]

Eh... I think I need to stop fighting against the tide here. I'll just accept this is an HD-DVD website and head for other pastures. Only so much ganging up one guy can take. :D

Dunno if you're still there, but if you are:

Sorry if you feel ganged up on.

Just bear in mind that this site has a general focus on digital media enthusiasts. That comes with certain up-front biases. Most of us make no secret of it.

First and foremost is functionality. Stuff that works is better than stuff that is pretty or popular.

Second is value. Good products are desirable; good products cheap even more so.

Third, a lot of posters and visitors are DRM-hostile. I'm not but it hasn't scared me off yet.

Fourth, some of us (I'd like to think I fall here) put consumer interests above corporate interests. Brand loyalty = baloney. Hype and image = worthless. Some of us have a low threshold for corporate spin. This annoys Apple and Sony fans, among others.

Five, we like a good verbal scuffle and usually carry two bags; one for dishing out and one for receiving.

The intent isn't to reinforce preconceived notions ignoring what goes on in the real world but to compare notes and see how those notions stand up to scrutiny. Some of us have been known to change our minds. Me? Let's see, there was one time back in '05... ;-)

Above all, we try not take it personally.
And if I mispoke in my use of the plurals, I expect some other poster to call me on it.

Comes with the territory, right, guys? :twisted:

Now, add it all up and you can see why we enjoy tweaking the "BD has won" crowd. Sony is pushing too many of our buttons. :lol:

[Felix Torres]

Here ya go, the BD camp responds:
http://www.dvdtown.com/news/fox-and-mgm-gets-back-in-the-blu-ray-game/4679

Sure doesn't look like the war is anywhere near over. :twisted:

[Jeremy Charette]

MASTER &amp; COMMANDER OCT. 2 OCT.
THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW OCT. 2 NOV.
FROM HELL OCT. 9 OCT.
THE FLY (1986) OCT. 9 Q1 08
EDWARD SCISSORHANDS OCT. 9 NOV.
28 DAYS LATER OCT. 9 North America Only
ROBOCOP (MGM) OCT. 9 DEC.
AMITYVILLE HORROR (1979) (MGM) OCT. 9 North America Only
BATTLE OF BRITAIN (MGM) NOV. 6 Q1 08
A BRIDGE TOO FAR (MGM) NOV. 6 Q1 08
I, ROBOT NOV. 13 Q1 08
DIE HARD NOV NOV.
DIE HARD 2 DIE HARDER NOV NOV.
DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANCE NOV NOV.
RED DAWN (MGM) NOV Q1 08
MR. AND MRS. SMITH DEC. 4 DEC.
INDEPENDENCE DAY DEC. 4 DEC.
CAST AWAY DEC. 4 North America Only
RONIN (MGM) DEC. 4 DEC

Wow. That's a lot of titles...I don't give a damn about.

Now when Star Trek comes out on HD DVD I'll be replacing my DVD set. And the Matrix Trilogy is on my HD DVD to buy list.

Was talking to my brother tonight, and while he hasn't been following the "war", he did comment that Best Buy in upstate NY has a whole rack full of red HD DVD discs, but he couldn't find Blu-Ray disc to save his life. He figured HD DVD must have "won".

This is not a war of numbers, or facts, or technical advantages. It's a war of perception. The people on the front lines aren't engineers, they're PR people, and executives.

[Jason Dunn]

Eh... I think I need to stop fighting against the tide here. I'll just accept this is an HD-DVD website and head for other pastures. Only so much ganging up one guy can take. :D

I'm sorry you feel that way Jeff - I'd step in if I thought anyone was being harsh, but I think everything has been friendly here, so I'm surprised you feel "ganged up on". :? Please stick around. :D

[Felix Torres]

Here's a good comparison chart/article from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_high_definition_optical_disc_formats

To those that decry the format war, I posit that regardless of the winner, consumers have *already* benefitted by the HD-DVD resistance to the gang of three in that:

1- Originally planned BD prices were $40, now they're $25 and dropping
2- Players were supposed to stay at $1000+ for over a year; they've already dropped under $500
3- MPEG2 was supposed to be the primary codec used on BD; VC1 and H.264 were "not needed". VC1 is now the primary BD codec with H.264 a possibility
4- BD profile 1.0 was supposed to be a finished product with no picture-in-picture, no mandatory-copy, or advanced audio codecs. Profile 1.1 is now mandatory as of november and Profile 2.0 is optional.
5- Mandatory copy, while still optional, is now part of the BD spec.

Doesn't matter if you're a BD supporter or not; those are serious gains/concessions from the initial BD positions. And more are to come. I suspect most BD disk audio will conform to the higher HD-DVD standards if only because the neutral vendors will already have the mastered data available from the HD-DVD versions that require them. If I were a BD fan, I'd be grateful to the HD-DVD camp for forcing the gang of three to move this far this fast.

On the HD-DVD side, triple layer disks should match BD capacity so if there is ever a need for HD-DVD 1.x they can up the optional data rates to match the higher BD theoretical ceiling.

Competition is good.
Let the war rage.

[Damion Chaplin]

Transformers suck.

[Chris Gohlke]

Pulled the trigger on the HD drive for the 360 and just loaded up my blockbuster queue with HD movies. Really looking forward to watching Planet Earth in HD.

[Jeremy Charette]

I'm really looking forward to ripping my HD DVDs and storing them in WMV format on my Media Center PC. That's another article for another time though... 8)

[pradike]

The format war is long from over.

But what this clearly shows is the Sony Blu Ray spin machine is blowing smoke up butts in their claim to victory their way. In addition, coupled with thsi format decision defeat and the flurry of HD DVD players and disks sold the last quarter....much of the momentum is swinging back to HD DVD.

Add in the fact that the European Union if formally investigating Sony's actions to get exclusivity from their 3 partnered Blu Ray only studios (can you say bribe?), and the Blu Ray camp has its hand full with major damage control.

When I happened to stop in this afternoon at my nearby Best Buy to pick up 300 on HD DVD, I saw 2 people in the return line with Blu Ray units. How timely was that.

For months now we've been hearing all the SOny propaganda on Blu Ray this and Blu Ray that, when in fact, most of it was non-news anyway. THIS IS NEWS, and a major event in the evolution to determine a clear format winner. If Warner (a dual format supporter and the only one left as such) decides to go with HD DVD alone, look for other studios to follow suit.

Apparently the studios have awakend to realize HD DVD is a superior format for many, many reasons.

[Jason Dunn]

I'm really looking forward to ripping my HD DVDs and storing them in WMV format on my Media Center PC. That's another article for another time though... 8)

Hah. Yeah, I'd like to read that article. ;-) I've ripped an HD-DVD, but it was a real kludge trying to get the damn files into a useful format. I ended up changing the fie extension to .mpg and I was able to play back the files in WMP, but trying to edit them was fruitless. It's all still pretty messy...